acceptable forms of discrimination

[Rolig Loon]

Heavens, how hard is it to understand?  Whether you like the fact that landowners can decide to block anyone from their land or not, the fact is that the TOS gives landowners precisely that freedom.  That's all that 90% of the people responding in this thread are saying.  I cannot see anyone saying that s/he agrees with discrimination.  All that people are saying is that landowners have the right under the TOS to decide who can have access to their land ... no questions asked.  Alwin's last post is telling you that if you don't like the TOS, complain to Linden Lab.  Nobody else can do anything about it.

[Solar Legion]

Ah yes, because someone reminding you of what the reality actually is, is so obviously a "supporter" of whatever discrimination you believe is happening ....

Yep, that's the only explanation!

It cannot possibly be that you're mistaken or that we're incapable of inferring the nature of your complaint from your responses here.

If you have an issue with the ToS/CS, take it up with Linden Lab.

Oh yes and if what has been surmised concerning your positions is oh so off the mark put them in writing.

[Rowan Amore]

I may not agree with something but I've learned to accept that some things are the way they are and perhaps should be.

Agree and accept, different means.  

Do I agree with a region owner not allowing a person because of race, sexual orientation, hair color?  Not in the least.  Do I accept that this is their right?  Dang right I do.

[Alwin Alcott]

8 minutes ago, Dillin Woodward said:

So, can I put you down as a supporter of SL discrimination?

 

Your point of view is something we seen a lot lately..not agreeing with or won't take a position in the issue = you'r part of the problem ...

[Rowan Amore]

and probably best said here:

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Evelyn Beatrice Hall

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

11 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

It is almost like the OP does not understand the concepts they are pretending to rail against ....

More likely the OP is simply trolling.

[Solar Legion]

Just now, LittleMe Jewell said:

More likely the OP is simply trolling.

Hence the tail end of my most recent response.

I have noticed that - while there has been ample opportunity to do so - the OP has not bothered to clarify/spell out their actual, full position.

If they're waiting for someone to come along and ask, they'll be waiting until the heat death of the Universe.

[Sukubia Scarmon]

I agree with @LittleMe Jewell

Op choses very blame-y language, even after being patiently explained over and over again why their accusations aren't true. 
They WANT to rile up people, their logic is flawed and can easily be turned around to point at them as well.

[Dillin Woodward]

I'm not trolling.  I simply have a hard time believing what I am reading here.  

In the end, I don't really care. Well not enough to continue. 

I got what I needed.  I now understand better what the "acceptable" levels of discrimination is here in SL.

I did not understand this at the beginning.  I now have a much different, and better understand of the topic now.

 

This was my first, and likely last post this forum.  

Thank you all.

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

3 minutes ago, Dillin Woodward said:

I'm not trolling.  I simply have a hard time believing what I am reading here.  

In the end, I don't really care. Well not enough to continue. 

I got what I needed.  I now understand better what the "acceptable" levels of discrimination is here in SL.

I did not understand this at the beginning.  I now have a much different, and better understand of the topic now.

 

This was my first, and likely last post this forum.  

Thank you all.

 

You understand nothing. You have twisted people's words to mean something the words do not mean and you have done so deliberately. Enjoy the misery you've created for yourself.

[Solar Legion]

Except you do not understand whatsoever.

At least you are honest enough to state that you got what you needed however.

Lovely display of confirmation bias too!

And of course you don't care enough to continue - you did not care enough to properly state your position either! Classic set of tactics on display there!

Edited September 28, 2020 by Solar Legion
Grammar Correction

[Mollymews]

6 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well Molly I'd like to feel reassured by your faith in America, and for a few seconds I even did as I'd like to believe we aren't in any danger over here

 

So what's the solution?  I don't know, but touting the great virtues of the US and asking capitalism to be the organizing principle of the world it ruined is like asking the fire that burned down your house to rebuild it. Yes you can ask, but the fire will laugh, and just keep on burning you right down into dust.

it isn't that there isn't any danger. Every nation has its dangers which are often peculiar to the moment. Some overcome the dangerous moment, and some do not

the solution isn't in systems like capitalism or socialism, or even a mix  of these. Nor is it in morality, be that religious or secular morality. Moral standards can and do change generationally as time passes

the solution is in ethics I think

when we hold ourselves to ethically observe the rules of our society: constitutions, laws, regs, etc and the processes we employ to create and implement the rules then we can overcome any danger

when we don't observe the rules then we create the danger ourselves

and when we don't ourselves use the rules to hold to account those who act unethically by breaking the rules then we are just as guilty of an ethical breach as is the rule breaker

 

[Paul Hexem]

4 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

More likely the OP is simply trolling.

[Waiomao]

This whole discussion is incredibly sad and would likely be so to anyone not white. I understand the desire as noted above to prevent cyborgs from overrunning a 1920s sim, but to outright ban a race or gender or any other descriptor is absolutely discriminatory. Yes, that may be allowed by SL's TOS so that artists can maintain an ambiance on their sim, but it's still an ugly reflection of how desperately we need to evolve in RL. It's time for us to allow cyborgs into our 1920s sims, to allow LGBTQ people into our bakeries, to start celebrating our differences rather than hating them, banning them, and pretending they are unacceptable or don't even exist.

[Rowan Amore]

Don't forget this one and in a perfect world, everyone would be accepting of everyone else but sadly, that will never be so.  

 

[cunomar]

We will not tolerate intolerance is self defeating , its been weaponized and its human nature to respond only one way to threat . 

Must admit though cowards played a large role in my losing the will to smile in SL , oh so many sent private messages of friendly support  warning a certain person/team were working to get me unfairly banned . Alas, most were staff themselves and so unwilling to speak up for fear of finding themselves o the receiving end of the same vendetta  .

Truth is i didn't really expect them to stand up and be counted and i wouldn't ask them to either , its just a game right ?

The sim owners response when i brought the matter to their attention (before i was banned) "nobody get's banned for personal reasons"

Didn't the Nazi guards at Auschwitz say something similar when they went to trial ?

RL true story , i was asked to leave a pub once , landlords excuse was there is to many stairs and i was smashed up bad from a bike accident enjoying a day out of hospital . Unwilling to let it spoil my day i simply shook my head and left . Imagine my surprise and his when all his customers and bar staff followed me out .

Protest is pointless in SL but if enough people vote with their feet when they believe something is wrong it won't go unnoticed .

[Theresa Tennyson]

3 minutes ago, cunomar said:

The sim owners response when i brought the matter to their attention (before i was banned) "nobody get's banned for personal reasons"

 

Didn't the Nazi guards at Auschwitz say something similar when they went to trial ?

 

Nope.

[Syo Emerald]

Ah, now we are finally at the point of comparing landowners in SL to Nazis.

Too soon for "in before the lock"?

[Love Zhaoying]

43 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

Ah, now we are finally at the point of comparing landowners in SL to Nazis.

Too soon for "in before the lock"?

Everybody eventually gets compared to Nazi's, it's one of those poor argument tactics that as a side-effect, reduces Nazism!

[Love Zhaoying]

15 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

Lovely display of confirmation bias too!

Training on this has been in the news lately..

[Lyssa Greymoon]

Yeah, when I login to SL, the first thing I think is "this is probably what the Nazi death camps were like". Seriously, without naming and shaming, what kind of places are actually practicing serious discrimination? Like banning "an entire class of people" (and no cyborgs in 1920's Munich or formal dress at place that thinks Celine Dion is jazz don't count).

[Ceka Cianci]

12 hours ago, Waiomao said:

This whole discussion is incredibly sad and would likely be so to anyone not white. I understand the desire as noted above to prevent cyborgs from overrunning a 1920s sim, but to outright ban a race or gender or any other descriptor is absolutely discriminatory. Yes, that may be allowed by SL's TOS so that artists can maintain an ambiance on their sim, but it's still an ugly reflection of how desperately we need to evolve in RL. It's time for us to allow cyborgs into our 1920s sims, to allow LGBTQ people into our bakeries, to start celebrating our differences rather than hating them, banning them, and pretending they are unacceptable or don't even exist.

I'm not white myself, I'm Chiricahua Apache, I know real discrimination when I see it.. There is a big difference between a human and an avatar..

The TOS is not talking about avatars when it is talking about discrimination.. it's talking about the humans/ users, the people behind the avatars or RL humans in general..

Users can change the avatars in this world to fit an environment, where users  or humans can't in the real world..

In the real world where I own my house and my land, I can say who can go on my land or not.. I could be as discriminating as I want  and be within my rights.. I could say, hey what's this white person doing on my land!! get out of here you ( insert whatever discriminating name you want here) if I wanted..

Because the constitution of america is not a contract between me and the other citizens of the U.S... it's a contract between me and the government..

Land owners have a bit of a stricter set of rules with LL, but it's not between avatars and humans..It's between human and human..

Someone saying no blacks or no women or no men allowed on their land, is talking about avatars, because humans can't walk around in second life..

In SL, whites can be black, blacks can be white, men can be women, women can be men..

Real life discrimination happens to people not avatars.

ETA:

Intolerance

Linden Lab encourages social interactions between users across multiple countries. The use of derogatory or demeaning language or images based on race, ethnicity, gender, religion or sexual orientation is prohibited. Actions that marginalize, belittle, or defame users or groups are similarly prohibited.  

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Ceka Cianci

[Rowan Amore]

[Luna Bliss]

13 hours ago, Waiomao said:

This whole discussion is incredibly sad and would likely be so to anyone not white. I understand the desire as noted above to prevent cyborgs from overrunning a 1920s sim, but to outright ban a race or gender or any other descriptor is absolutely discriminatory. Yes, that may be allowed by SL's TOS so that artists can maintain an ambiance on their sim, but it's still an ugly reflection of how desperately we need to evolve in RL. It's time for us to allow cyborgs into our 1920s sims, to allow LGBTQ people into our bakeries, to start celebrating our differences rather than hating them, banning them, and pretending they are unacceptable or don't even exist.

So true!  I think society is evolving, if that's any consolation! 

[Luna Bliss]

13 hours ago, RowanMinx said:

Don't forget this one and in a perfect world, everyone would be accepting of everyone else but sadly, that will never be so. 

Activists (people fighting for social justice) work to increase fairness to whatever degree is possible and don't generally believe society can achieve perfection. Fighting the good fight in order to make life better for those being exploited.