Chewy, meaty & philosophical... Here?

[Luna Bliss]

33 minutes ago, Orwar said:

 I think that people trying to find a broader meaning of love to make it fit menial tasks is misguided. 

   If you have enough spare time to 'philosophise' about how cleaning the dishes is a step along the path of love, you should find a more meaningful way to contribute to society. The concept of love is infested with the aspect of divinity, of fate; love isn't something you find, it's not something you're entitled to, it's a bond that two people build together through a mutual exchange.

I like your idea here about love being a bond two people build together through a mutual exchange.

But I think you're interpreting the 'finding love in menial tasks' too literally. It doesn't mean one should seek toilets and laundry to find love..lol -- it's simply a kind of metaphor which means love is found in the smaller things and doesn't arrive permanently from external achievements like the perfect job, romantic relationship, or perfect health. Love is simply there, like breathing, even in the small stuff.   You may be happy for awhile when you "get" these big achievements, but it doesn't last long...the glory fades...these external achievements are not infinite as love is...

Edited September 5, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Catrie]

2 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Unless you're a train.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/17/611860169/japanese-rail-operator-says-sorry-for-inexcusable-departure-25-seconds-off-sched?t=1599339986689

   . . . Okay, now we're derailing. Whilst talking about trains. Gee. 

If we're talking trains, we have to talk about Tama the Railroad conductor cat.  https://japan-forward.com/station-master-tama-the-cat-remains-railroad-goddess-after-her-death/

[Orwar]

3 minutes ago, LexxiXhan said:

You just do it as a hobby?

I'm sure you've heard of oxytocin, dopamine and seratonin?

See? Hug needed..

   Am I really that much more interesting than the topic itself? 

   I mean, I get it - I sort of am - but surely there's more to be said about the topic itself before we dive into my hugging habits and what chemical compounds I'm familiar with?

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Unless you're a train.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/17/611860169/japanese-rail-operator-says-sorry-for-inexcusable-departure-25-seconds-off-sched?t=1599339986689

   . . . Okay, now we're derailing. Whilst talking about trains. Gee. 

Ironic, huh?  At least that train didn't derail.

[Luna Bliss]

An old Zen proverb:

 

[LexxiXhan]

5 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Am I really that much more interesting than the topic itself? 

   I mean, I get it - I sort of am - but surely there's more to be said about the topic itself before we dive into my hugging habits and what chemical compounds I'm familiar with?

You don't want to be the Case Study for the thread?

Fortunately, topics like this give others a chance to express their thoughts and feelings on the subject, and appreciate or learn from other perspectives, so I doubt you'd be alone

[Rowan Amore]

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I like your idea here about love being a bond two people build together through a mutual exchange.

But I think you're interpreting the 'finding love in menial tasks' too literally. It doesn't mean one should seek toilets and laundry to find love..lol -- it's simply a kind of metaphor which means love is found in the smaller things and doesn't arrive permanently from external achievements like the perfect job, romantic relationship, or perfect health. Love is simply there, like breathing, even in the small stuff.   You may be happy for awhile when you "get" these big achievements, but it doesn't last long...the glory fades...these external achievements are not infinite as love is...

I still think this isn't love.  Not in the way most people define it.  As I said, a feeling of contentment, peacefulness, fulfillment and maybe even joy but not love.  The word is used for such a wide range of things, "I love pizza", "I love gardening" that it's almost lost meaning.  Appreciate, cherish, enjoy...maybe better than love for describing all those other things.

[LexxiXhan]

12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

But I think you're interpreting the 'finding love in menial tasks' too literally. It doesn't mean one should seek toilets and laundry to find love..lol -- it's simply a kind of metaphor which means love is found in the smaller things and doesn't arrive permanently from external achievements like the perfect job, romantic relationship, or perfect health. Love is simply there, like breathing, even in the small stuff.   You may be happy for awhile when you "get" these big achievements, but it doesn't last long...the glory fades...these external achievements are not infinite as love is...

I'd offer that it's in these mundane tasks where there is only our quiet self, that we find we can generate Love, for ourselves, that we can choose to feel it as gently or intensely as our wounds require, any time we need to, and it only increases our ability to Love others in the ways that they need.

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

15 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I like your idea here about love being a bond two people build together through a mutual exchange.

But I think you're interpreting the 'finding love in menial tasks' too literally. It doesn't mean one should seek toilets and laundry to find love..lol -- it's simply a kind of metaphor which means love is found in the smaller things and doesn't arrive permanently from external achievements like the perfect job, romantic relationship, or perfect health. Love is simply there, like breathing, even in the small stuff.   You may be happy for awhile when you "get" these big achievements, but it doesn't last long...the glory fades...these external achievements are not infinite as love is...

I still think this isn't love.  Not in the way most people define it.  As I said, a feeling of contentment, peacefulness, fulfillment and maybe even joy but not love.  The word is used for such a wide range of things, "I love pizza", "I love gardening" that it's almost lost meaning.  Appreciate, cherish, enjoy...maybe better than love for describing all those other things.

When I say "love is simply there, like breathing, even in the small stuff" and "these external achievements are not infinite as love is" I am not speaking to anything trivial or 'less than' love...

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, LexxiXhan said:

I'd offer that it's in these mundane tasks where there is only our quiet self, that we find we can generate Love, for ourselves, that we can choose to feel it as gently or intensely as our wounds require, any time we need to, and it only increases our ability to Love others in the ways that they need.

I like that. In addition to my meditation it reminds me of going for a solitary walk in the woods...I come out of such experiences with more love to give to others..

[LexxiXhan]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I like that. In addition to my meditation it reminds me of going for a solitary walk in the woods...I come out of such experiences with more love to give to others..

I think we understand each other

I also think I once told you of the healing, cleansing and sparking sensations of feeling the *****les and scratches of having a besom swept gently and lovingly over my skin...and that time spent in ancient woodland or near the movement of the sea has much the same effect.

[Catrie]

3 hours ago, Gatogateau said:

You spend a great portion of your life working at minor activities rather than the major ones—for example, washing the dishes, talking to a friend, or driving to work. Therefore, it is precisely in these daily activities that you walk your loving path, or else you have at most a few isolated loving events. Regardless of how you fare with major activities, you need the skills to love even the smallest creature and the humblest activity in order to cherish the day-to-day circumstances of life. You don’t have to gain evidence of success or find somebody mind-shatteringly wonderful in order to be able to live in love.

Is this really what love is, though?  I mean, doing dishes for a sick friend or relative shows you care, but is the act itself actually love?  Does anyone actually love doing dishes?  You can not dislike doing them or even enjoy doing them, but I wouldn't say that's love.  I would say that all the examples you gave show caring and possibly compassion.  However, nothing says that's love.  One could say they are done in love or you baked a cake "with love", as you either are passionate about baking or you care about the person getting the cake, but again, is that really love?    What is love, anyway?

  I think, in today's society, we use that word too loosely.  We say  " I love that movie" or " I love that song" or " he loves pizza", etc.  If love is supposed to be this all-consuming aspect of life,  none of those things actually qualify for the word "love".  Yes, you can really like that movie or say that's the best pizza you've eaten, but it's not on the same level of love that you are to give your partner.   To equate washing dishes to loving your significant other devalues your feelings for said partner.  Yes, you may say you wash the dishes because you love your partner, but that's not why you're doing it. You care about them and their happiness. You are more than likely sharing household chores in order to show each other you care about the other person, but that's not showing love.  Isn't love supposed to be much loftier and deeper than that? 

I think there are different emotions that people mistake for love.  If you think about it love can be both good and bad.  You can say you love someone when actually you are obsessed with them and fantasize about them or come out with scenarios that never happened, but you convinced yourself they did.  You can say you love someone, but it's a fleeting feeling not a deep everlasting connection. Is that really love or was that just sexual attraction? 

I don't know if someone with a PhD can really tell you what "love" actually is.  I've found the deeper in academia someone has become the more lofty their responses are and they are no longer looking at this through an every day human lens.  They are looking at things to the abstract and things like true feelings, emotions, etc no longer have any meaning to them. 

Hope this made sense. sorry for the book. Just general ramblings from a member of the peanut gallery. (BTW,  Orwar gives great hugs. Though if more people knew that, he'd have to charge and there'd be a HUGE line.  I hate waiting in lines. lol ) 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Catrie
edit to fix a typo

[Lindal Kidd]

 

2 hours ago, Gatogateau said:

Medicinal, of course.

First quip at post #8.  Just keepin' track here.

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, LexxiXhan said:

12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I like that. In addition to my meditation it reminds me of going for a solitary walk in the woods...I come out of such experiences with more love to give to others..

I think we understand each other

I also think I once told you of the healing, cleansing and sparking sensations of feeling the *****les and scratches of having a besom swept gently and lovingly over my skin...and that time spent in ancient woodland or near the movement of the sea has much the same effect.

What is that *****les word?  I might not get your full meaning unless I know it.  You can s-p-e-l-l it like this...

[LexxiXhan]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

What is that *****les word?  I might not get your full meaning unless I know it.  You can s-p-e-l-l it like this...

p-r-i-c-k-l-e-s

[LexxiXhan]

Who had the smoke last? Do I need to roll another?

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, LexxiXhan said:

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

I like that. In addition to my meditation it reminds me of going for a solitary walk in the woods...I come out of such experiences with more love to give to others..

I think we understand each other

I also think I once told you of the healing, cleansing and sparking sensations of feeling the *****les and scratches of having a besom swept gently and lovingly over my skin...and that time spent in ancient woodland or near the movement of the sea has much the same effect.

Hmmm...you are speaking to sensuality? In my type of mediation increasing sensual feelings is not encouraged.  I can't say that I know this is right, or that I'm not in some cult, but I am experimenting with new ways of experiencing reality.  I think, ultimately, that ultimate love is beyond sensuality, but we all experience love at whatever stage we need to at any particular stage in our life, and so nothing is ever wrong for you when you are at the stage you need to be at.

I guess you could say I have departed from my Wiccan nature-worshipping ways into...…..something else. Perhaps I just needed a new technique to go deeper, and returned to my earlier roots of Yoga for that.  But keep checking on me...lol

Edited September 5, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

Sleeping In The Forest

by Mary Oliver

I thought the earth remembered me,
she took me back so tenderly,
arranging her dark skirts, her pockets
full of lichens and seeds.
I slept as never before, a stone on the river bed,
nothing between me and the white fire of the stars
but my thoughts, and they floated light as moths
among the branches of the perfect trees.
All night I heard the small kingdoms
breathing around me, the insects,
and the birds who do their work in the darkness.
All night I rose and fell, as if in water,
grappling with a luminous doom. By morning
I had vanished at least a dozen times
into something better.

[Sukubia Scarmon]

6 minutes ago, Catrie said:

Isn't love supposed to be much loftier and deeper than that? 

Does it need to be?

Dunno, there'll never be a 100% set answer on "What is Love" (Aside of "It's a chemical reaction that compells animals to breed" of course . ) because it's an emotion, and emotions are experienced different by people. I think that's why philosophers become more and more abstract, because that's natural, they don't think about the topic on the individual basis, but on a grander scale, where the emotion itself is very much abstract and more disconnected from the individuals colouration of it. At least, that's my explanation for it!

[Rat Luv]

I'd love a robot to wash the dishes, not me ☹️

I do love jaffa cake rum though and have just ordered some online. And I'll love drinking it next week 😻

[LexxiXhan]

12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I think, ultimately, that ultimate love is beyond sensuality, but we all experience love at whatever stage we need to at any particular stage in our life, and so nothing is ever wrong for you when you are at the stage you need to be at.

I agree. We learn ways to express or give love through our life experiences and different stages of self awareness or realization...as parents, as friends, as lovers, as neighbours, as teachers...and the forms can be verbal, through actions, or sensual..and the wisdom to know how or what the other person needs or what will give them the space to figure that out comes with that. It forms, and is informed by, our intuitive understanding of how our presence, including our bodies or understanding of another's physical intuition and communication can serve others.

 

[Orwar]

   There is another aspect to what Catrie was talking about, too.

   Self perseverance. 

   Even if you do the dishes to aid a loved one is an act of compassion, it's not self-sacrifice; it's a good deed in the bank, a favour that may come with anticipation of the same service being provided to you if one day you should need it. Basically, it's the same way society functions - we contribute to society because we expect society to be there for us when we need it, we pay taxes because we expect fires in our homes to be turned out, our broken bodies to be mended, safety, protection and justice. Society is, in a way, a macro-relationship involving all the people within it. 

   We're animals, we're driven by instinctive behaviours such as opportunism, deception, and greed - we're no different in our relationships, and even if we may have genuine empathy for people around us, a desire to see them prosper, it's arguably because it increases our own chances of survival the day we can't stand by ourselves. There's also lust, jealousy and schadenfreude; they're all responses to chemical inputs in our brains, triggered by behaviours that are wired into our very beings. 

   To say that everything we do are acts of love is an insult, it ignores the reality of what we are, and undermines the true purpose of the word. It's such a thick shell of sugar coating that truth is entirely obscured by it. To be so reckless with our language, to warp the meaning of words to make them fit our position rather than explaining our perception by wielding words the way they are intended, it's degenerative, destructive, and despicable. 

   And besides; in an age where we have dictionaries and thesauruses at our disposal at the click of a button, to just sit yourself down and burp up something as braindead as the stuff quoted in the OP, is just outright lazy. But that's just another part of human nature, isn't it - to take the path of least resistance when we got nothing to lose for doing so, to appeal to your audience because you can be certain that such hogwash is going to be swallowed, hook, line, and sinker, by desperately ignorant individuals that roam the world in terrifying numbers, so that you can have a shot at being noticed, publish a book, and make a living out of micturating gasoline on the fires of nescience. 

[Luna Bliss]

Little Dogs Rhapsody In The Night by Mary Oliver

by Vanessa

He puts his cheek against mine
and makes small, expressive sounds.
And when I’m awake, or awake enough

he turns upside down, his four paws
in the air
and his eyes dark and fervent.

Tell me you love me, he says.

Tell me again.

Could there be a sweeter arrangement?
Over and over
he gets to ask it.
I get to tell.

[Catrie]

Love is like a rainbow, 

It's breathtaking and beautiful

and then fades away

 ~ Catrie Athena 5th grade. 

[Sukubia Scarmon]

11 minutes ago, Orwar said:

Even if you do the dishes to aid a loved one is an act of compassion, it's not self-sacrifice;

You have no clue how much I hate doing the dishes then, heh.