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19 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

What I have noticed, going way back, is when people are ganging up on Pearl and finding fault with her in numerous ways, some have employed the word 'whore' in these exchanges whereas in others exchanges 'sex worker' or 'prostitute' is more likely used.

This makes me wonder....how do people really feel about this occupation? Do they genuinely feel it's acceptable and only use the more derogatory form of the word to accomplish their goal of trashing another (knowing it's viewed negatively by society), or do they really feel this is a bad occupation?

 

Speaking for myself...I feel I have never trashed Bagnu for what she does in SL.  I am not going to look back through my numerous posts "ganging up" on her, but I believe I have never referred to her as anything but an escort.  

As to how I feel about that line of work...I don't give two hoots if someone makes their lindens by jumping on a pose ball and typing erotic words to someone else in SL.  I have a very colourful SL past where I engaged in jumping on poseballs and typing erotic words to many, many men before I became incredibly jaded by it and now am much happier on my skypad avoiding people.  To each their own and more power to them - as long as no-one is getting hurt. 

Personally I do not find the word whore offensive.  I do not find the word prostitute offensive.  If that's what they are, shouldn't they embrace it as this "identity" you are so fond of preaching about?  But then again, I come from the culture that doesn't find the "c" word that rhymes with "hunt" offensive either.

9 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

what the heck is lower than crack whore?!?!? 

Most of my ex's 😉

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LittleMe thinks that someone just can't stand it if she isn't constantly the center of attention - hence some of these totally odd and unneeded threads.  

How about stop promoting yourself as "porn" and starting threads that are just extensions from other threads (ie this topic was touched upon in the naughty pics on Flickr thread).   I haven't see

This is an even weaker excuse for starting yet another thread all about you than the "hey guys, is it all right to take intimate photos of people who don't know I'm doing it?" one. I do get it. Y

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22 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

What I have noticed, going way back, is when people are ganging up on Pearl and finding fault with her in numerous ways, some have employed the word 'whore' in these exchanges whereas in others exchanges 'sex worker' or 'prostitute' is more likely used.

This makes me wonder....how do people really feel about this occupation? Do they genuinely feel it's acceptable and only use the more derogatory form of the word to accomplish their goal of trashing another (knowing it's viewed negatively by society), or do they really feel this is a bad occupation?

 

I have no issue with Sex work, I think that people who view it as lesser or hurl slurs and abuse at sex workers are disgusting and advocate  in the first life for decriminalization of sex work and those who choose it as a viable  option for employment. (Note, "what about trafficking-" people, That I said CHOOSE. Victims cannot choose or consent.)

I have no issue with Pearl as a  person, I have even defended her at one point. 

What I do take offense to.  Is the attitude towards  Disabled people and the non apologies. Even after admitting she has no disabled clients. It hurt to be devalued, it hurt worse to see that instead of mine and many other disabled speaking out. people where more focused on defending Pearl's feelings then the people she  caused harm to with her words and actions. Saying that we where ganging up on her or no different from anti-sex work people. (It's an extra salt in the wound because many rl sex workers are disabled.)

 

When one person outright left the forms because of it (and other reasons) I think those with disabilities are allowed to feel bitter. Espically when the biggest voices in defending her actions and  downplaying are hurt are so called Defenders of the oppressed.

 

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2 hours ago, Robin Kiyori said:

What I do take offense to.  Is the attitude towards  Disabled people and the non apologies. Even after admitting she has no disabled clients. It hurt to be devalued, it hurt worse to see that instead of mine and many other disabled speaking out. people where more focused on defending Pearl's feelings then the people she  caused harm to with her words and actions. Saying that we where ganging up on her or no different from anti-sex work people. (It's an extra salt in the wound because many rl sex workers are disabled.)

When one person outright left the forms because of it (and other reasons) I think those with disabilities are allowed to feel bitter. Espically when the biggest voices in defending her actions and  downplaying are hurt are so called Defenders of the oppressed.

I've mentioned before practicing Reiki in SL (a healing technique where discussion of problems often occurs). It's not uncommon for people to make fun of Reiki. If I was encountering people on the forum making fun of my Reiki practice I can easily imagine defending it by saying something like "people coming to me for help feel human again after our sessions" as a way to try and prove that what I'm doing is actually a good thing, even if my client never said those actual words to me. Using that expression would not mean I thought they were subhuman -- instead I would mean that I believed they felt whole again after recovering something that had been missing in their lives (a sense of well-being...the peace that comes from expressing repressed pain or resolving a problem). The expression 'feeling human again' is the recovery of an experience that was missing in one's life--for example, people use the expression after finally taking a long-awaited shower -- "phew, I feel human again".

The media really does a number on people's perception of themselves via the way in which they portray sexuality -- according to them it appears sexuality is only for "the perfect people". Disabled people are rarely portrayed as sexual. It's not easy to overcome the internalization of strong beliefs in society, not for the disabled person themselves or those viewing the disabled person. It is simply a fact that many disabled people have a very difficult time overcoming this socialization so that they feel as whole as any other sexual person who is not disabled, so why would Pearl be to blame for assuming one of her clients does indeed hold these feelings about their perceived inadequacy?

If I thought Pearl was trashing disabled people or considering them to actually be less than human I'd be all over her believe me!

Edited by Luna Bliss
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On 9/5/2020 at 10:05 AM, Luna Bliss said:

What I have noticed, going way back, is when people are ganging up on Pearl and finding fault with her in numerous ways, some have employed the word 'whore' in these exchanges whereas in others exchanges 'sex worker' or 'prostitute' is more likely used.

This makes me wonder....how do people really feel about this occupation? Do they genuinely feel it's acceptable and only use the more derogatory form of the word to accomplish their goal of trashing another (knowing it's viewed negatively by society), or do they really feel this is a bad occupation?

 

There’s an episode of Penn & Teller’s Bullsh*t show that aired oh probably a decade ago on either HBO or Showtime.   One episode dealt with the power we willingly give words & whether their importance or offensiveness is universal.  I think and this is my opinion, that none of Pearls friends are being made to feel bad because they associate with a virtual sex worker.  If she’s mentioned half as often that Pearl Sexton is an “escort” to them as she does on the forums, then they are well informed.  They must not be bothered by it.   Or they’d not associate with her.  

Do I care what she does In SL to live vicariously thru her avi?  No.  

I don’t even “care” that for a good while these really odd threads kept popping up, all with the sole purpose of getting attention, because being an “escort” in SL was not garnering her enough in-world.  I just get to thinking after the third or fourth page of any new attention seeking 3rd person authored thread that an emotional vampire is in my midst & I soon enough just scroll past her messages.

& then my opinion of her is shaded by the attention seeking antics & has absolutely nothing to do with her 2nd life lived as an escort-hooker-prostitute-courtesan-whore-*****-whatever is socially acceptable today- which leads me to....for being offended by words-  one quoted section of dialogue I found that was a quick reference was (the video is a different part of the show & more of a statement of no matter what you do or say someone, somewhere is going to have an issue)  

Penn and Teller return after a segment on anti-profanity advocate Ginny Foster, who suggests saying "Santa vaca!" instead.]

Penn:
"Saint cow". So she is literally saying, "Holy cow!", in Spanish. But "holy cow" is a derogatory reference to the Hindu belief in the sacredness of cows. Ginny certainly doesn't believe in the holiness of cows, so taking that Lord's name in vain is perfectly acceptable. She doesn't buy the holy-cow myth. Therefore, if you didn't actually believe that Jesus is God - and most of the world doesn't - if you were, for example, a Hindu, shouting…

[Teller drops a bowling ball on Penn's foot.]

Penn:
… JESUS CHRIST'S!… name… in a situation where you… or someone you know, somehow, accidentally… dropped a bowling ball on your FOOT… would be, by Ginny's standards… perfectly polite. [Penn looks like he wants to smack Teller.]

 

 

 

Edited by Pixie Kobichenko
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14 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:
21 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

For me the label ranking in descending order is: 

1. Escort 2. Prostitute 3. Whore 4. Crack whore 5. *****

what the heck is lower than crack whore?!?!? 

Someone who is addicted to crack is mentally ill.  Addiction is a mental illness. It's really not okay to make fun of mentally ill people in public, and they aren't "lower" than anybody else.

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39 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

I just get to thinking after the third or fourth page of any new attention seeking 3rd person authored thread that an emotional vampire is in my midst & I soon enough just scroll past her messages.

How many threads would I need to start, and within what amount of time would they need to be posted, before I'd be considered an attention-seeking emotional vampire?

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5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

How many threads would I need to start, and within what amount of time would they need to be posted, before I'd be considered an attention-seeking emotional vampire?

You willingly quoted my text over, but then willingly left out an important part of what I typed when you hypothetically challenged my opinion- which was the odd third person narrative therein that Pearl was referring to herself in, which I originally tried to good naturedly give a gentle ribbing to when I referenced The Jimmy episode of Seinfeld.  Your challenge to me is also neglecting that I was addressing your question of my OPINION that YOU asked for regarding sex workers & the words folks use to denote them.   If you want to get hung up on the fact that she has admitted to doing all this to seek attention & I find it tiresome- that’s fine by me.  But if you’re going to  address what I say- challenge all of it- & not just a two word bit from two paragraphs.

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50 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I've mentioned before practicing Reiki in SL (a healing technique where discussion of problems often occurs). It's not uncommon for people to make fun of Reiki. If I was encountering people on the forum making fun of my Reiki practice I can easily imagine defending it by saying something like "people coming to me for help feel human again after our sessions" as a way to try and prove that what I'm doing is actually a good thing, even if my client never said those actual words to me. Using that expression would not mean I thought they were subhuman -- instead I would mean that I believed they felt whole again after recovering something that had been missing in their lives (a sense of well-being...the peace that comes from expressing repressed pain or resolving a problem). The expression 'feeling human again' is the recovery of an experience that was missing in one's life--for example, people use the expression after finally taking a long-awaited shower -- "phew, I feel human again".

The media really does a number on people's perception of themselves via the way in which they portray sexuality -- according to them it appears sexuality is only for "the perfect people". Disabled people are rarely portrayed as sexual. It's not easy to overcome the internalization of strong beliefs in society, not for the disabled person themselves or those viewing the disabled person. It is simply a fact that many disabled people have a very difficult time overcoming this socialization so that they feel as whole as any other sexual person who is not disabled, so why would Pearl be to blame for assuming one of her clients does indeed hold these feelings about their perceived inadequacy?

If I thought Pearl was trashing disabled people or considering them to actually be less than human I'd be all over her believe me!

Except she has stated several times she has NEVER had a client who was disabled.  So why did she say that? What possible reason could there be for her to say "I make my disabled clients feel human again" other than attention seeking?

 

24 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:
15 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:
22 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

For me the label ranking in descending order is: 

1. Escort 2. Prostitute 3. Whore 4. Crack whore 5. *****

what the heck is lower than crack whore?!?!? 

Someone who is addicted to crack is mentally ill.  Addiction is a mental illness. It's really not okay to make fun of mentally ill people in public, and they aren't "lower" than anybody else.

Lower on the list.. Her list. not mine.  You having issues with reading comp again? No one was "making fun" of people who do crack, either. And no, they aren't mentally ill. Addiction is NOT a mental illness. Some doctors say it is and some say it isn't. Just like some say being gay is and some say it isn't. (Hint, it isn't, BTW.) Its along the line of PTSD.. Whats in a name? If it was still called Shell Shock, i bet more people would be treated properly for it. 

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18 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:
32 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

How many threads would I need to start, and within what amount of time would they need to be posted, before I'd be considered an attention-seeking emotional vampire?

You willingly quoted my text over, but then willingly left out an important part of what I typed when you hypothetically challenged my opinion- which was the odd third person narrative therein that Pearl was referring to herself in, which I originally tried to good naturedly give a gentle ribbing to when I referenced The Jimmy episode of Seinfeld.  Your challenge to me is also neglecting that I was addressing your question of my OPINION that YOU asked for regarding sex workers & the words folks use to denote them.   If you want to get hung up on the fact that she has admitted to doing all this to seek attention & I find it tiresome- that’s fine by me.  But if you’re going to  address what I say- challenge all of it- & not just a two word bit from two paragraphs.

I don't know what all the gobbledy***** you posted really means, and I can't be arsed to read it again.

What I AM saying, with my rhetorical question, is that it's subjective as to what constitutes attention-seeking and who we should label as an "emotional vampire".  There are no absolute rules -- no number of threads within any time period which absolutely proves a forum poster has transgressed a rule -- it's subject to interpretation yet you take your estimation as gospel truth.

 For me, I saw her starting threads as simply wanting more info...wondering how others felt about these topics she was trying to process regarding experience in SL, as well as some threads being an attempt to defend herself after being unfairly attacked.

Most notably, we should give leeway to those who have not been on forums before or are new to this forum -- both realities for Pearl.

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5 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Except she has stated several times she has NEVER had a client who was disabled.  So why did she say that? What possible reason could there be for her to say "I make my disabled clients feel human again" other than attention seeking?

Because she believed/believes that she did/does help disabled people, imagining some of her clients might be disabled.  Like I expressed, I could say the same thing about a Reiki client, believing I had helped them become whole again, without them ever saying those exact words.   It was not "attention seeking" -- she was wanting to make her activities in SL seem like good ones, defending herself,  as she perceived others were putting her down.

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12 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

they aren't mentally ill. Addiction is NOT a mental illness. Some doctors say it is and some say it isn't. Just like some say being gay is and some say it isn't. (Hint, it isn't, BTW.) Its along the line of PTSD.. Whats in a name? If it was still called Shell Shock, i bet more people would be treated properly for it.

Does this controversy really matter in terms of what I'm trying to convey?  Arguing technicalities is the mark of an idiot.

The point is, addictions never occur on their own, but are always a person’s poor attempt to self-medicate a deeper psychological hurt.  So should we be putting down or making fun of people who are hurt and attempting to medicate themselves with substances.

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3 minutes ago, So Whimsy said:

How is this even still going? o.O

Robin felt hurt, and I tried to clarify.

We really need to have a discussion about sexuality and disability so people can express the difficulties experienced in our society.  This won't happen as long as people simply choose to blame Pearl without getting to the root of it all.

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1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

Does this controversy really matter in terms of what I'm trying to convey?  Arguing technicalities is the mark of an idiot.

The point is, addictions never occur on their own, but are always a person’s poor attempt to self-medicate a deeper psychological hurt.  So should we be putting down or making fun of people who are hurt and attempting to medicate themselves with substances.

So, what is the "deeper psychological hurt" of someone who is addicted to gambling? Most people who get addicted to drugs of any sort usually start by experimenting with them. Not for a deeper meaning, just to see what they will feel like on them.  

I think people who do base jumping are nuts, are you going to tell me that thrill seekers need therapy? Or are they just addicted to the rush? 

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Because she believed/believes that she did/does help disabled people, imagining some of her clients might be disabled.  Like I expressed, I could say the same thing about a Reiki client, believing I had helped them become whole again, without them ever saying those exact words.   It was not "attention seeking" -- she was wanting to make her activities in SL seem like good ones, defending herself,  as she perceived others were putting her down.

How can you think she feels she helps disabled people when she has NEVER had one as a client? Thats like me saying I am the best at something i have never done. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Robin felt hurt, and I tried to clarify.

We really need to have a discussion about sexuality and disability so people can express the difficulties experienced in our society.  This won't happen as long as people simply choose to blame Pearl without getting to the root of it all.

We're blaming her for lying about it.  If she hadn't, it wouldn't even be in this whole discussion.  To lie about something you have had no experience with, THAT is what's at issue for most of us.  

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2 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

How can you think she feels she helps disabled people when she has NEVER had one as a client? Thats like me saying I am the best at something i have never done. 

She's imagining she's helping one.  Actually, there's a good change some of her clients are disabled.  Like I said, I believe she wants to feel she's helping those who are down and out somehow, hurting.  When I do Reiki I'd rather help a client who needs help, as I'd feel I was doing the most good then.

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3 hours ago, Robin Kiyori said:

I have no issue with Sex work, I think that people who view it as lesser or hurl slurs and abuse at sex workers are disgusting and advocate  in the first life for decriminalization of sex work and those who choose it as a viable  option for employment. (Note, "what about trafficking-" people, That I said CHOOSE. Victims cannot choose or consent.)

I have no issue with Pearl as a  person, I have even defended her at one point. 

What I do take offense to.  Is the attitude towards  Disabled people and the non apologies. Even after admitting she has no disabled clients. It hurt to be devalued, it hurt worse to see that instead of mine and many other disabled speaking out. people where more focused on defending Pearl's feelings then the people she  caused harm to with her words and actions. Saying that we where ganging up on her or no different from anti-sex work people. (It's an extra salt in the wound because many rl sex workers are disabled.)

 

When one person outright left the forms because of it (and other reasons) I think those with disabilities are allowed to feel bitter. Espically when the biggest voices in defending her actions and  downplaying are hurt are so called Defenders of the oppressed.

 

I think we've established that, on the whole, no one much cares about Pearl's "profession / RP" as sex worker. I see a few people here who have revealed, indirectly, the low esteem in which they hold such people, but that's not a very important issue.

Pearl's biggest mistake here -- and she's made more than a few -- was undoubtedly her comment about the disabled. It was an appalling attitude to display. I haven't seen anyone defending it. I know that I posted asking her to make an uncomplicated, simple, and unequivocal apology for it. She did apologize: whether it was fulsome enough is, I suppose, up to you to decide.

But it was also the kind of thing that we have all done on occasion (at least I'll willingly admit that I have): she inadvertently revealed a toxic attitude towards something through her language. She did not post "I think that the disabled are subhuman": she wasn't arguing from this position, or trying to assert it, but rather revealed that this is a notion that she'd been holding. It was hugely important that she be brought to recognize that this is an unconscious and probably unquestioned belief that she held: that's why it was a good thing that she was raked over the coals for it.

It was a good thing, not so that we can "mark her out" as some sort of unretrievable, irremediable POS, but so that she could learn from it. I think she has, but maybe time will tell.

If we don't believe that people can learn from such episodes, change their attitudes, and become better people, then we are conceding that the world is nothing more than a battleground between immovable and irreconcilable opinions, and we might as well all start stocking up on the heavy ordinance necessary to "correct" the poor ideas of others. IF someone apologizes, and gives proof that they have corrected their awful opinions, then the intelligent and constructive thing to do is to thank them for that, chalk up another victory for clear and sensitive thinking, and move on to the next.

To continue to hammer someone for an opinion which they have conceded was a bad one, and for which they have apologized, on the other hand, is not very constructive: it suggests, in fact, that apologies and changes in one's attitude are pointless, and one might as well just dig in with one's trench mortars and machine guns, and continue the ideological battle to the death.

Robin, I totally understand your bitterness. I understand the anger of the poster who left the forums -- he's actually a friend of mine, and someone whom I admire and value very much. I'm not suggesting that there is a magic wand that you can wave to make the hurt go away: there isn't. I'm emphatically not here to tell you to "get over it": if you can't, that's completely understandable.

But I do just want to say that, if there is to be any hope for humanity, if we want to believe that attitudes can change peacefully and not at the point of an ideological bayonet, then we also have to accept that people can learn, examine their unquestioned assumptions, and change.

Has Pearl done so? I still wish her apology had been less defensive, and much more obviously heartfelt, to be honest. But I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt until she demonstrates that she hasn't learned anything -- because I'd rather believe that change is possible, than that it isn't.

Edited by Scylla Rhiadra
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57 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Someone who is addicted to crack is mentally ill.  Addiction is a mental illness. It's really not okay to make fun of mentally ill people in public, and they aren't "lower" than anybody else.

Addiction/Alcoholism is more of a spiritual illness than a mental one though the mental aspect may be a contributing factor. A crack whore would likely be lower on the list of desirable sex workers.

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4 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:
13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Does this controversy really matter in terms of what I'm trying to convey?  Arguing technicalities is the mark of an idiot.

The point is, addictions never occur on their own, but are always a person’s poor attempt to self-medicate a deeper psychological hurt.  So should we be putting down or making fun of people who are hurt and attempting to medicate themselves with substances.

So, what is the "deeper psychological hurt" of someone who is addicted to gambling? Most people who get addicted to drugs of any sort usually start by experimenting with them. Not for a deeper meaning, just to see what they will feel like on them.  

I think people who do base jumping are nuts, are you going to tell me that thrill seekers need therapy? Or are they just addicted to the rush? 

They may start taking drugs by simply experimenting or wanting to fit in with those around them, but most who become addicted are trying to mask pain.  So they are hurting, and trying to cover up that pain in the best way they can.  They shouldn't be made fun of.

I don't know that thrill seekers need therapy.  Some might.  haha this reminds me of a friend (also a therapist) who tried to tell me I was some kind of thrill addict because I liked to look over the edge at the Grand Canyon (she, of course, was terrified).  Got to love those psych people, all too often ready with an evaluation when you aren't pleasing them...

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1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

I've mentioned before practicing Reiki in SL (a healing technique where discussion of problems often occurs). It's not uncommon for people to make fun of Reiki. If I was encountering people on the forum making fun of my Reiki practice I can easily imagine defending it by saying something like "people coming to me for help feel human again after our sessions" as a way to try and prove that what I'm doing is actually a good thing, even if my client never said those actual words to me. Using that expression would not mean I thought they were subhuman -- instead I would mean that I believed they felt whole again after recovering something that had been missing in their lives (a sense of well-being...the peace that comes from expressing repressed pain or resolving a problem). The expression 'feeling human again' is the recovery of an experience that was missing in one's life--for example, people use the expression after finally taking a long-awaited shower -- "phew, I feel human again".

That is probably the worst equation i have ever read.. 

Disabled people dont feel less human because of our disabilities, we feel less human because of how others treat us. Again though, since she has never (by her own admission) had a disabled client, she was saying this to get attention for herself. Something along the "LOOK AT ME!!! I do good things for people!!" lines. 

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

She's imagining she's helping one.  Actually, there's a good change some of her clients are disabled.  Like I said, I believe she wants to feel she's helping those who are down and out somehow, hurting.  When I do Reiki I'd rather help a client who needs help, as I'd feel I was doing the most good then.

Again, look at your wording.. "She's helping those that are down and out, somehow hurting."  Who the hell do you think you are? Disabled people are down and out? Hurting? And an ESCORT is going to fix their ills? How pompous of an attitude can one have? She is a glorified hooker. Lets not make her into Mother Teresa. 

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

most who become addicted are trying to mask pain.

No, they are addicted to the actual chemical. The lack of it in their system causes the pain. 

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1 minute ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

I've mentioned before practicing Reiki in SL (a healing technique where discussion of problems often occurs). It's not uncommon for people to make fun of Reiki. If I was encountering people on the forum making fun of my Reiki practice I can easily imagine defending it by saying something like "people coming to me for help feel human again after our sessions" as a way to try and prove that what I'm doing is actually a good thing, even if my client never said those actual words to me. Using that expression would not mean I thought they were subhuman -- instead I would mean that I believed they felt whole again after recovering something that had been missing in their lives (a sense of well-being...the peace that comes from expressing repressed pain or resolving a problem). The expression 'feeling human again' is the recovery of an experience that was missing in one's life--for example, people use the expression after finally taking a long-awaited shower -- "phew, I feel human again".

That is probably the worst equation i have ever read.. 

Disabled people dont feel less human because of our disabilities, we feel less human because of how others treat us.

I feel both....I feel bad because of the disability I must endure...and I feel bad about how others have treated me...and I can only imagine some others feel both too.

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