Pixel Snobery

[Nick0678]

26 minutes ago, Conifer Dada said:

While she probably thought of herself as a SLupermodel,  her shape actually looked ridiculous - huge hips, tiny waist, narrow shoulders and short arms with tiny hands - a combination you never see in RL! 

People have a wild imagination so when it comes to avatars i am sure most think their own is the best looking avatar ever, that is why i avoid paying that much attention to such stuff and fact is that what looks great for some actually looks like crap for others. Most either have that plastic doll look or asymmetric shape. Then again it also depends on the monitor settings and other parameters including a persons likes and perception.

Anyway an avatar is not a physical entity, so it is ridiculous to make any judgements or assumptions about people based only on avatar looks. (especially knowing cases of people who spend so much time playing SL that have forgotten when was the last time they had a bath in RL)

[Artair Glendullen]

The only time I really get miffed at people for how they look is when they're wearing 200k+ complexity avatars in an event space, especially when show only friends isn't an option. Otherwise, there are some pretty interesting people with prim and/or system avatars. I know of a few people who've had the same avatar bases forever, and seeing them use different/'upgrade' would make them unrecognizable.

[Conifer Dada]

I agree.  People can look how they like in Second Life.  We never really know whether someone's avatar looks odd intentionally or because the real life person behind it has no sense of scale or proportion!

Quote

Anyway an avatar is not a physical entity, so it is ridiculous to make any judgements or assumptions about people based only on avatar looks. (especially knowing cases of people who spend so much time playing SL that have forgotten when was the last time they had a bath in RL)

And they've also spent so much time in SL that they've forgotten what a real woman or man look like!

In real life, dragons don't exist, so how come some dragons in SL are more realistic than others?  🤪

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by Conifer Dada

[Nick0678]

39 minutes ago, Conifer Dada said:

...that they've forgotten what a real woman or man look like!

Yeah didn't want to refer to that part for a whole lot of reasons but at least ffs take a bath not just once every week/month, SL isn't going anywhere.

41 minutes ago, Conifer Dada said:

In real life, dragons don't exist..

Well realistically speaking... this is what a real life dragon looks like. Anything else is just wild imagination.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

10 hours ago, Nick0678 said:

Anyway an avatar is not a physical entity, so it is ridiculous to make any judgements or assumptions about people based only on avatar looks.

The things you write in this forum are similarly not "physical entities," but I can come to all sorts of interesting conclusions about you based upon them.

Indeed, given that we have almost complete control over our looks here, but not so much in RL, I can probably conclude more about someone's beliefs, ideas, ideologies, personality, and so forth, on the basis of their virtual appearance. Being short and having an elongated head mean nothing in RL: they are the accidental byproducts of genetics. In SL, the same qualities are the result of a conscious decision, just as your word choice here is.

Avatars and virtual appearance are just another way we express ourselves. They are meaningful, to greater and lesser degrees.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Scylla Rhiadra

[AdminGirl]

True, av appearance can tell us things like creativity, taste, effort, interests, or how much into sl they are.

RL appearance can give us those clues too. If someone is heaps muscular in gym gear in rl, I'd draw some conclusions that I wouldn't if that was their sl appearance.

Everyone has a right to be picky over who interact with or even ridicule in rl or sl. I personally don't choose to be a pixel snob because some of the most interesting and funny people I've met do not have what most would consider an attractive av. If I was a snob I might not have gotten to know them.

[Rabid Cheetah]

On 8/28/2020 at 4:58 PM, steeljane42 said:

"Accept me no matter what, no matter how I look or what I do"

 

 

No.  This is absolutely NOT what I am saying.  Damned straight we should judge people by what they do.  We should not judge people by how they look.  Simple as that.  It's a poor character trait in rl to do so, and is also a poor character trait to do so in sl.

 

On 8/28/2020 at 5:36 PM, Lewis Luminos said:

An avatar's appearance in SL is entirely different from a person's appearance in RL.

In RL you have very little control of how you look. You can change your clothes and hair but that's about it; your "shape" and "skin" are pretty much fixed genetically. But in SL you have total control. So I do think that the appearance of a person's avatar in SL can say a lot about who they are as a person. That's why it makes no sense to compare SL avatars with people who have genetic diseases. No avatar in SL has a genetic disease, unless they choose to portray it that way. And making that choice would in itself say something about the person behind the avatar.

I don't agree with mocking and shaming people for the way their avatar looks, but at the same time, I respect the choices of land owners to specify what kind of avatars they want in their regions. Particularly a role-playing place, where it might not fit the storyline to have a furry or an anime avatar or a toaster-robot-thing. I once went to 1920s Berlin as a guest, and as part of the region rules I made my avatar shorter than usual. No big deal, I just returned to my normal height afterwards. If I went to a place where  I was required to be a furry, or an anime character, or a toaster-robot-thing, I would, because I can. Changing your avatar is easy and temporary, I don't get why people fuss so much about doing so. It's no different from being asked to wear a tux when I go to a swanky jazz club.

 

 

You're speaking of dress codes, not an "I'm better than you because I have an expensive mesh avi" attitude.  You're perfectly in character dressed as a Classic flapper avatar.

 

On 8/28/2020 at 6:03 PM, RowanMinx said:

I'm going to have to agree.with Seicher. I've been here 10+ yrs and I don't recall a time when it was open and accepting.  There have always been places that had restrictions regarding appearance and honestly, I'm fine with that.  Whomever it is that owns the place is living their SL as they would like.  That is what it's all about.  

I've been here 14 years.  Things changed...ehhhh...maybe around the time you two entered SL.  I have a theory it has to do with mesh coming to the game, but really don't care to bother researching at what point that happened.  But certainly the attitude towards avi appearance popped up around that time.

And again, I'm not talking about dress codes.  I'm talking about an attitude among people on comes across, and most people are not owners of large RP parcels.

 

On 8/28/2020 at 7:57 PM, Jordan Whitt said:

 

Just pointing out that if you go to a location where the owners have decreed a certain look (ie must be human avatars) and you rock up as a centaur or furry or cute little elf, well you are going to asked to humanise your avatar or leave.  Some places do ask for a level of avatar looks and whilst it might be snobbery, well it is their place, their rules and their prerogative to do so.    

Not.  Talking about.  Dress codes.  🙄

 

 

On 8/28/2020 at 8:17 PM, Atosuria Daviau said:

 

i am totally aware of this and happily change if asked but in the case i mentioned was at a store no request or anything just gone. and i 100% approve their choice to do so after all it is their land. but i also took it as a signal they did not want to make a sale and made note if it for when i shop on marketplace.

That sucks.  IM me.  I'd rather they not get my lindybucks either.

 

On 8/28/2020 at 9:19 PM, MelodicRain said:

People have every right to ridicule and not associate with people who put zero effort in their looks, when it's so damn easy to look at least acceptable in a sim like SL...

...You couldn't give less of a crap about your own appearance, therefore you shouldn't expect anyone else to give a crap about you.

 

 

Yep.  Precisely what I'm talking about.  No, you do NOT have the right to ridicule people for their appearance, EVER.  Mot in RL, and not in a game.  You have a serious flaw of character, which is sad.  To "not give a cap" about other people is another serious negative character trait, bad enough on its own, but to further exacerbate this negative character trait by basing it on looks?!?!?

Whatever.  Believe what you want.  My post wasn't about convincing those that practice pixel snobbery to change their ways.  My post was merely an explanation, for those who had asked, what I mean by the term and how I arrived at my conclusions vis-a-vis pixel snobbery.

 

17 hours ago, Conifer Dada said:

I'm coming up to 14 years in SL and I still use a system avatar, although I have mostly mesh clothing and mesh hair.  I've only been challenged once about my non-mesh appearance, by a lady with a full mesh avatar decked out in perfectly fitting mesh clothing and accessories. While she probably thought of herself as a SLupermodel,  her shape actually looked ridiculous - huge hips, tiny waist, narrow shoulders and short arms with tiny hands - a combination you never see in RL!  Me being me, I didn't retaliate, but I knew exactly what I would have said if I'd done so! 

A well proportioned system avatar with a realistic skin still looks better than a badly proportioned mesh one with a poorly detailed skin.  

As I often say on here, what would be really good would be if LL could update the system avatar with minor tweaks to overcome the known problem areas and also to add some more sliders to further increase customisation. For example it would be good if we could adjust an avatar's basic permanent stance that would affect all animations. Things like toes in or toes out, stand up straight or stoop, or arms out a bit (for fat avatars).

Excellent ideas.

Me, I just can't be as calm as you about this issue.  I'm sorry.  I know people in the cranio-facial community.  I know people in the Downe's community.  I know people in the Aspberger's community.  I know people in the disabled community.  Being mean to people for these reasons is never, ever, ever OK.  Even in a game.  That's where I'm coming from.

I get that people don't see the connection.  I get that.  Because I scored very high on Connectivity on the Strengthfinder 2.0 test.  So I see connections that others can't perceive.  And I often need to take a step back and remember not everyone can make those connections.

And yes, playing a game where people ridicule how people look DOES affect the real world, just as any other medium that does the same thing affects people's attitudes towards those who don't fit the mold.  I hope for a better world.  I will continue advocating for it.  But again, I didn't come here to argue with folks.  I was just trying to explain something.  The Forum Axiom proved once again (all threads end in an argument lol)

Edited August 30, 2020 by Rabid Cheetah
me hate typos

[Rabid Cheetah]

10 hours ago, Nick0678 said:

Yeah didn't want to refer to that part for a whole lot of reasons but at least ffs take a bath not just once every week/month, SL isn't going anywhere.

Well realistically speaking... this is what a real life dragon looks like. Anything else is just wild imagination.

Love those guys!  Was even on a diabetes med made out of their saliva (before that particular med was found to have some complications and stopped getting recommended by doctors).  I called the injection my Potion of Dragon Spit lol

[Rabid Cheetah]

5 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The things you write in this forum are similarly not "physical entities," but I can come to all sorts of interesting conclusions about you based upon them.

Indeed, given that we have almost complete control over our looks here, but not so much in RL, I can probably conclude more about someone's beliefs, ideas, ideologies, personality, and so forth, on the basis of their virtual appearance. Being short and having an elongated head mean nothing in RL: they are the accidental byproducts of genetics. In SL, the same qualities are the result of a conscious decision, just as your word choice here is.

Avatars and virtual appearance are just another way we express ourselves. They are meaningful, to greater and lesser degrees.

They are.  I just feel we should be accepting of everyone.  To paraphrase John Lennon, "It's easy if you try".  So, I'll go back to being a dreamer...

[Rabid Cheetah]

4 hours ago, AdminGirl said:

True, av appearance can tell us things like creativity, taste, effort, interests, or how much into sl they are.

RL appearance can give us those clues too. If someone is heaps muscular in gym gear in rl, I'd draw some conclusions that I wouldn't if that was their sl appearance.

Everyone has a right to be picky over who interact with or even ridicule in rl or sl. I personally don't choose to be a pixel snob because some of the most interesting and funny people I've met do not have what most would consider an attractive av. If I was a snob I might not have gotten to know them.

Bingo.  Some of my best friends are goofballs that other people were ignoring.  Like a girl in a bee costume, at a nude beach lol  We became instant besties.  💖

[Orwar]

   I don't like being judged for judging people by how they look. Huffs.

[Nick0678]

8 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The things you write in this forum are similarly not "physical entities," but I can come to all sorts of interesting conclusions about you based upon them.

Yes you can make conclusions but actually those are all assumptions based on what i say as  Nick0678 , a specific online username (online persona) which can easily change with a few keys pressed and logging in another account. Do you really know the person you are talking to? Not really. Who really knows a person? Only people who actually know the real person in RL for a long time and have tested that persons integrity.

[Lewis Luminos]

If I see someone with a years-old account wearing a non-mesh starter or freebie avatar, I generally make one of the following assumptions:

• They are disabled, maybe blind, and cannot see what their avatar looks like, or they are unable to handle the learning curve for reasons of physical or mental impairment.
• Their activities in SL are something for which avatar appearance is completely irrelevant (educational or business, or they create content that's not appearance-related for example). They were never here to play "dolly-dress-up".
• They have recently logged back in after many years away and haven't got around to updating yet.
• They are unwilling/unable to purchase L$ and do not have any skills to earn them (and they are male - finding quality free stuff for men is harder now than it ever was. So is finding a SL job).
• The account is a rarely-used alt.
• They got very attached to their appearance in the early days and are unwilling to update because they don't want to change it in any way. 

I don't need to know which of those reasons it is. And absolutely none of these reasons are valid cause to mock or shame someone.

 

[Seicher Rae]

1 hour ago, Lewis Luminos said:

If I see someone with a years-old account wearing a non-mesh starter or freebie avatar, I generally make one of the following assumptions:

• They are disabled, maybe blind, and cannot see what their avatar looks like, or they are unable to handle the learning curve for reasons of physical or mental impairment.
• Their activities in SL are something for which avatar appearance is completely irrelevant (educational or business, or they create content that's not appearance-related for example). They were never here to play "dolly-dress-up".
• They have recently logged back in after many years away and haven't got around to updating yet.
• They are unwilling/unable to purchase L$ and do not have any skills to earn them (and they are male - finding quality free stuff for men is harder now than it ever was. So is finding a SL job).
• The account is a rarely-used alt.
• They got very attached to their appearance in the early days and are unwilling to update because they don't want to change it in any way. 

I don't need to know which of those reasons it is. And absolutely none of these reasons are valid cause to mock or shame someone.

 

Exactly. Very good list. There are other reasons, not so reasonable, for the old avatar look, but until you talk to the person (and I don't mean grill them about their avatar's look, I mean have a conversation with them), you'll never know. 

It is freaking expensive, if you are on a limited budget, to update from an old system avatar to a quality (as in buying good stuff), full mesh avatar. I just recently helped two people do it, and while they weren't passing out from the cost, *I* was.

I admit that I am a pixel snob, but not the way the OP intended, and I don't share my snobby inner thoughts. A lot of my snobbery is about the tags above people's heads and avatar names, again these are just as telling sometimes as the "deep and meaningful" nothing but quotes on a profile. I roll my eyes at some when I see the full package of looks, profile, tags/name and think, "Well, at least we know why YOU are in SL..." 

We all judge, whether we want to admit it or not.

[Lewis Luminos]

22 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

It is freaking expensive, if you are on a limited budget, to update from an old system avatar to a quality (as in buying good stuff), full mesh avatar. I just recently helped two people do it, and while they weren't passing out from the cost, *I* was.

I admit that I am a pixel snob, but not the way the OP intended, and I don't share my snobby inner thoughts. A lot of my snobbery is about the tags above people's heads and avatar names, again these are just as telling sometimes as the "deep and meaningful" nothing but quotes on a profile. I roll my eyes at some when I see the full package of looks, profile, tags/name and think, "Well, at least we know why YOU are in SL..." 

We all judge, whether we want to admit it or not.

Expensive, for sure. I updated this avatar (at least the body) fairly quickly after mesh came out, though I was slower on the head (for reason of being too attached to my appearance). I have five other alts, only two of which I've purchased full price mainstream bodies and heads for., over the space of about seven years. Two other alts are on cheapies and gifts, and one is still non-mesh because I never even log it in any more.

For most people, who don't follow forums or blogs, they may never know that gift mesh bodies and heads even exist. I remember mentioning one of them (can't remember if it was Catwa Freya or the free Genus one) in my club when it first came out, and only one other person already knew about it.

You're right, I do judge others in SL, mostly by whats written in their profile and what groups they belong to. But also sometimes on avatar appearance. Though you can bet that 99.999% of the time, when I'm judging someone negatively on their appearance, they are (a) fully meshed-up and (b) their appearance conforms to certain stereotypes that correlate with the groups they belong to.

And even when I do judge them, I'm polite enough not to say so.

[Nalates Urriah]

On 8/28/2020 at 4:11 PM, Seicher Rae said:

And "destroying what SL used to be, an accepting community"... when was this Nirvana? Certainly not in the 11+ years I've been around. There has been and always will be some people who have a shallow view of other people and their standards.

SL is certainly not Jerk Proof... never has been.

11 years ago my dark skinned avatar drew negative racist responses. My male Alt was ridiculed about being gay (the AO did having looking a bit effeminate). I haven't experienced a racist comment in a  l o  n   g  time. That maybe because I upped my sexyness rating. Nor a gay slam, but maybe that is because of a more masculine AO. So I agree with Seicher and suspect little if anything has changed.

[LittleMe Jewell]

22 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

SL is certainly not Jerk Proof... never has been.

QFT

 

Just read some of the current forum threads for further proof.

 

[Sammy Huntsman]

On 8/29/2020 at 7:41 AM, Conifer Dada said:

I'm coming up to 14 years in SL and I still use a system avatar, although I have mostly mesh clothing and mesh hair.  I've only been challenged once about my non-mesh appearance, by a lady with a full mesh avatar decked out in perfectly fitting mesh clothing and accessories. While she probably thought of herself as a SLupermodel,  her shape actually looked ridiculous - huge hips, tiny waist, narrow shoulders and short arms with tiny hands - a combination you never see in RL!  Me being me, I didn't retaliate, but I knew exactly what I would have said if I'd done so! 

A well proportioned system avatar with a realistic skin still looks better than a badly proportioned mesh one with a poorly detailed skin.  

As I often say on here, what would be really good would be if LL could update the system avatar with minor tweaks to overcome the known problem areas and also to add some more sliders to further increase customisation. For example it would be good if we could adjust an avatar's basic permanent stance that would affect all animations. Things like toes in or toes out, stand up straight or stoop, or arms out a bit (for fat avatars).

Also to maybe add some better feet and hand meshes. So they don't look like they are from a PS1 and Xbox Era of game. That and introduce walks and jumps, instead of having to look like you have something jammed so far up your butt that you walk like the avatars without AOs on.

[Rabid Cheetah]

2 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

QFT

 

Just read some of the current forum threads for further proof.

 

Or wish someone Happy Juneteenth.

[Sammy Huntsman]

Btw just wanted to point out. Snobbery is spelled with 2 bs not one b. I read it as pixel snowbery when it first popped up in my emails.

[Nick0678]

3 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

11 years ago..

I was in SL back in 2009 for about 9 months (with my main avatar Nicolas Deischer) and for me definitely it was totally different from what it is now.

When it comes to the avatar part people seemed not to pay that much attention and the majority just used freebies or copyboted items so avatars weren't realistic at all and a lot just liked to play SL as neko's, robot's, vampire's or whatever based on the limited prim based options available and their imagination.

One would simply go to a club like Galaxy Dreams and realistically speaking would look silly just like everybody else so what mattered more was to have fun and focus on socializing with people. Flickr and such stuff? We both know it wasn't a thing back in those days.

(How could it be with freebie spiked prim hair)

Totally different times and SL habits.

(That was how i experienced it back in 2009 and we definitely never had conversations like this one, who knows maybe i am wrong.)

 

When it comes to racism etc idiots always existed and will exist everywhere, same way that although there weren't any adult regions back in those days you would find people trying to put their avatar to have sex with a prim spider/dog/cat or whatever on dedicated spaces.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Nick0678

[MelodicRain]

14 hours ago, Rabid Cheetah said:

Yep.  Precisely what I'm talking about.  No, you do NOT have the right to ridicule people for their appearance, EVER.  Mot in RL, and not in a game.  You have a serious flaw of character, which is sad.  To "not give a cap" about other people is another serious negative character trait, bad enough on its own, but to further exacerbate this negative character trait by basing it on looks?!?!?

Whatever.  Believe what you want.  My post wasn't about convincing those that practice pixel snobbery to change their ways.  My post was merely an explanation, for those who had asked, what I mean by the term and how I arrived at my conclusions vis-a-vis pixel snobbery.

You're the one with a "serious flaw in character" if you think everyone should have the same opinion as you. Equating SL appearance to RL appearance, lmao, how old are you again? You do realize that it literally takes 10 seconds to look presentable in SL by simply loading a default linden avatar? Go read my post again and google what a Ruth is. Also learn the difference between "ridicule/mock" and "not give a crap" before you start spewing this bull*****.

• Not give a crap = I have no intention of interacting with people who looks like Ruth and have been in SL 10 years, when even the default Linden avatars look better these days. They're strangers who will probably reside in my viewer cache for X days before they're wiped, period
• Ridicule/mock = actively IMing them saying that they look like crap

It's my choice who I decide to interact with on SL. If you got a problem with me not spending the effort at being super friendly and giddly to every single person I come across then too bad, deal with it. If you want to be the ambassador of people who troll for attention and make friends with all of them then go right ahead. Seems 90% of the people in this thread don't seem to agree with you.

Edited August 30, 2020 by MelodicRain

[Talligurl]

14 hours ago, Rabid Cheetah said:

Damned straight we should judge people by what they do.  We should not judge people by how they look.

The point is that the way a person looks in SL is a direct result of something they did.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Talligurl

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

14 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

Btw just wanted to point out. Snobbery is spelled with 2 bs not one b. I read it as pixel snowbery when it first popped up in my emails.

Although a snowberry would be different again, and maybe quite yummy  xxx

[Sammy Huntsman]

20 minutes ago, MelodicRain said:

You're the one with a "serious flaw in character" if you think everyone should have the same opinion as you. Equating SL appearance to RL appearance, lmao, how old are you again? You do realize that it literally takes 10 seconds to look presentable in SL by simply loading a default linden avatar? Go read my post again and google what a Ruth is. Also learn the difference between "ridicule/mock" and "not give a crap" before you start spewing this bull*****.

• Not give a crap = I have no intention of interacting with people who looks like Ruth and have been in SL 10 years, when even the default Linden avatars look better these days. They're strangers who will probably reside in my viewer cache for X days before they're wiped, period
• Ridicule/mock = actively IMing them saying that they look like crap

It's my choice who I decide to interact with on SL. If you got a problem with me not spending the effort at being super friendly and giddly to every single person I come across then too bad, deal with it. If you want to be the ambassador of people who troll for attention and make friends with all of them then go right ahead. Seems 90% of the people in this thread don't seem to agree with you.

I would have to agree with you on this point 100%. It's something we call preferences, and yes we all have them. If the OP expects me to lack preferences, since somehow it is wrong in her eyes. Then she is wrong.