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Problem: larger mesh props remain invisible


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I'm fighting for years with this problem and I wonder how many other people are affected by it.

After going online or porting to anther sim, large mesh-objects often remain invisible until I either right-click on them or toggle max view distance. 

This is extremely annoying, happens with different viewers, different PCs I had during the years ...

Theres nothing exotic on my end that could explain it. A standard PC (i7-8700, nVidia 1080, 32 gig), fast conenction (100mbit), ... usually using firestorm. Clearing cache from time to time. 

Whats going on here?

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How large is "large" ? Could they be so large that their origin is actually outside the draw distance? (If that's the cause, though, I'd expect they'd appear just by camming-in closer to their origins, as an alternative to changing the draw distance.)

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maybe I shoud add that the invisible object, when I trigger it by rightclicking or the lod-slider, appears in an instant, fully loaded mesh & texture. Its like its fully rezzed and waiting for something to switch it alive ...

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This "bug" has been with us for many years and seems to come and go. For me anyway it usually fixes itself after a time with no effort by me.   Personally though I haven't seen it for a long while. As far as I can tell, it doesn't have anything to do with how the various pieces of "not there" mesh are made.   I have had very low poly buildings that I have made (not even with roofs) go invisible for a time.  

 

Mow that I think back, most of these instances of issues have been on mainland servers.  When I am on my own private sim or renting a plot from a land baron all is fine.  Not sure if that is relevant or not. 

 

You have both a better computer and a faster internet connection than I do. Thinking it probably doesn't have much to do with that.  I am on a desktop and connect directly to my ISP. 

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That happens for a long time. It was worse a few years ago.

And it has nothing to do with connection. The object is already fully loaded and textures in the graphics card, because it instantly appears on a right click. In full resolution and fully textured. There is no loading involved here - everything is already loaded.

The viewer simply doesn't do its job - all viewers.

In my home location - lets say in 98% of all logins or TP-in's everything is there. Sometimes the floor is missing (visually). Right click or moving camera or moving avatar and zap it's there. Can happen with small objects too but that's very rare for me. A few years ago that was way more often, so someone "fixed" it in LL style. (not 100%) 😁

I can imagine that people who are slow loaders will never recognize it.

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thanks for the answers. Its seems like Im much more affected then most other people. That explains why LL isn't working on this. For me its almost a showstopper and should be highest priority on the buglist, ... but since Im the only one, I guess I just have to cope with it ...

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It's not really anything near a showstopper - just mouse scroll zoom out and then reset view.

Yes it is annoying when this happens but its not like all your attachments end up looking like they are sticking out of your pelvis after teleporting which was a far more annoying bug several years ago.

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I wonder why the difference in experiencing this bug. I used to see this all the time -- prims, mesh, sculpties, didn't matter -- and then it went away seemingly completely for me. I've not seen it in years, using a wide variety of different viewers.

(I do still get the different bug where objects sometimes don't load and stay unloaded until I relog -- doesn't help to right-click where I know them to be.)

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16 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I wonder why the difference in experiencing this bug. I used to see this all the time -- prims, mesh, sculpties, didn't matter -- and then it went away seemingly completely for me. I've not seen it in years, using a wide variety of different viewers.

(I do still get the different bug where objects sometimes don't load and stay unloaded until I relog -- doesn't help to right-click where I know them to be.)

I've gotten the latter on occasion. Interestingly another has cropped up that is similar: Object does not visual load and cannot be forced to do so via right-click but will properly load upon teleporting out for a time and then coming back.

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49 minutes ago, Kade Huntsman said:

It's not really anything near a showstopper - just mouse scroll zoom out and then reset view.

that doesn't work for me. I just tested again. What makes objects appear is: richtclick, toggleing drawdistance to 0 and back (firestorm chat command) and changing any Graphics settings. 

I did some more testing: when porting to my place, 3 out of 4 times I have major props missing ... for me its very very annoying.

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With the recent release of Firestorm 6.4.5 Beta I think I am seeing it more often. But it has been around for a time.

I have noticed that when I change Draw Distance things nearby pop into view. I usually hadn't noticed they were missing.

I suspect there are some issues in the Progressive Draw Distance Stepping. Preferences->Firestorm->Enable Progressive... (checkbox). You can try changing the value or disabling it.

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Except that this happens with Progressive Draw Distance disabled as well.

Might help some, might make it less noticed when it happens. Still happens and predates that particular TPV function.

Edited by Solar Legion
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13 minutes ago, Ren Toxx said:

[Ctrl + Shift + R], twice. For whatever reason, entering & exiting wireframe view seems to fix it.

Sure would like not needing to do it so often, tho.

Like Right-clicking and even leaving/coming back later ... Only some of the time.

Whatever the rot cause, there are a myriad of potential workarounds but no singular, sure fire method for working around it.

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I've had this manifest in a few ways.  Sometimes when I TP to my Linden Houseboat, the houseboat itself does not rez until I right click or scroll out and back in.  Other times it rezzes right away.  I even have a few hairs and shoes that will seemingly disappear when I TP, but will reappear as soon as I scroll out/in or right click them.

Then there are the times that I TP into a location and not all of the items rez, even after scrolling out/in or right clicking or waiting many minutes.  I know the items are them because there is usually either blank spaces within the vendors that I see, or at events I'll sometimes see 'Buy Me' tags without any item nearby.  In those cases, if I TP away and back, the items all rez.

I can't say that it is happening any more frequently than it ever has, but it also isn't really any less frequent.  Luckily, at least for me, other than some hairs/shoes, the frequency of my first description is less than 5% of my SL time.  The frequency of my second description is also less that 5% for my overall SL usage, but probably happens 25% of the time that I go to large events. That is part of why I seldom go to events in the first few days - the chance of me having to TP out and back in order to get things to rez is higher at the laggy events.

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9 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I've had this manifest in a few ways.  Sometimes when I TP to my Linden Houseboat, the houseboat itself does not rez until I right click or scroll out and back in.  Other times it rezzes right away.  I even have a few hairs and shoes that will seemingly disappear when I TP, but will reappear as soon as I scroll out/in or right click them.

Then there are the times that I TP into a location and not all of the items rez, even after scrolling out/in or right clicking or waiting many minutes.  I know the items are them because there is usually either blank spaces within the vendors that I see, or at events I'll sometimes see 'Buy Me' tags without any item nearby.  In those cases, if I TP away and back, the items all rez.

I can't say that it is happening any more frequently than it ever has, but it also isn't really any less frequent.  Luckily, at least for me, other than some hairs/shoes, the frequency of my first description is less than 5% of my SL time.  The frequency of my second description is also less that 5% for my overall SL usage, but probably happens 25% of the time that I go to large events. That is part of why I seldom go to events in the first few days - the chance of me having to TP out and back in order to get things to rez is higher at the laggy events.

Another long time glitch that has yet to go away: Phantom attached objects! Says it is attached/worn when in reality ... it isn't.

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19 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

Another long time glitch that has yet to go away: Phantom attached objects! Says it is attached/worn when in reality ... it isn't.

"Refresh Attachments" fixes that one. If the attachment is ghosted it will disappear when you do that. I find the cause for this to be wearing highly-complex huds (like my body or head hud) during a teleport, particularly if the teleport fails. But often when the teleport is successful too.

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23 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

I've gotten the latter on occasion. Interestingly another has cropped up that is similar: Object does not visual load and cannot be forced to do so via right-click but will properly load upon teleporting out for a time and then coming back.

That's probably a different bug, maybe even several different ones even.

Here's something I noticed on the beta grid. Sometimes I have to log off for a while when working on a big project there. If I log on with the official SL viewer, my own objects are always missing from the scene and they will only appear after I tp away and back. What's rather puzzling about this is that it:

  • Only affects my own objects, never anyody else's
  • Always happens if I'm on the beta grid, not main and I'm using the official SL viewer
  • Never happens if I'm on the main grid and/or use Firestorm
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9 hours ago, Lewis Luminos said:
On 8/16/2020 at 9:36 AM, Solar Legion said:

Another long time glitch that has yet to go away: Phantom attached objects! Says it is attached/worn when in reality ... it isn't.

"Refresh Attachments" fixes that one. If the attachment is ghosted it will disappear when you do that. I find the cause for this to be wearing highly-complex huds (like my body or head hud) during a teleport, particularly if the teleport fails. But often when the teleport is successful too.

When I'm doing lots of shopping and thus lots of demo trying, I'll keep my body HUD attached and will be TPing around to lots of places.  I've had the ghosted attachment issue twice, maybe three times, in all of my SL time - and only one was right after a TP failure.

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I had this with sim surrounds so a bit different....

There is a Jira for that one - https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-225295

This was a super old one (10 YEARS OLD HA)  that was kind of similar with sculpts back in the day.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13982?jql=text ~ "zoom"

If there is a JIRA expert reading this they may be able to find if there is one open for the bug above (I am useless with JIRA),

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On 8/17/2020 at 12:09 AM, Solar Legion said:

Like Right-clicking and even leaving/coming back later ... Only some of the time.

Whatever the rot cause, there are a myriad of potential workarounds but no singular, sure fire method for working around it.

Your dreaming if you think there is a permanent work around for it or ever will be. It has been in SL well before mesh was introduced.

The mesh/sculpt object is there but the texture fails to load on your screen therefore rendering it invisible. Generally it happens when you have been teleporting around for a bit or go to a large multi textured sim and then out again which implies that it is something to do with the client (or server side) not caching and fetching the texture properly when the cache is under load/full. This occurs as you say for attached objects on the avatar as well. Considering it has been YEARS since LL announced they would be changing the cache system (which this seems to derive from) and we are still waiting, don't expect a fix any time soon.

The only quick way and relatively non intrusive way is to do as  has been posted in the past as well as by @Ren Toxx in this thread and that is to hit Ctrl+Shift+R twice in rapid succession. By doing this you enter wireframe mode and the textures will then be loaded properly from the cache. It's the easiest method rather than opening menus or trying to find where the 'invisible' object is.

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1 minute ago, Drayke Newall said:

Your dreaming if you think there is a permanent work around for it or ever will be. It has been in SL well before mesh was introduced.

Read what I wrote. Read it a second time. Then a third. Continue to reread it until you can find where i even suggested such a thing.

Note my Rez Date - Near the end of October 2006. I am well aware of just how long the varied bugs have been around.

Now, if you did not intend your opening bit to come across the way it has then I'd suggest taking greater care in how you frame your responses.

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32 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Read what I wrote. Read it a second time. Then a third. Continue to reread it until you can find where i even suggested such a thing.

Note my Rez Date - Near the end of October 2006. I am well aware of just how long the varied bugs have been around.

Now, if you did not intend your opening bit to come across the way it has then I'd suggest taking greater care in how you frame your responses.

My response didn't have any sort of undertone of whatever to it and I read your post correctly, it's just I assumed you meant something else because of such a method existing already. You stated that there are lots of workarounds for it but not a singular 'sure fire' work around.

I am not sure what 'sure fire' means for you but, I took it as you meaning permanent as, a 'surefire' workaround (literal meaning: certain or likely, especially to succeed) does exist in the wireframe entry mode fix posted which you responded to. It is 100% guaranteed to rez everything properly in your view. That method is your 'surefire' workaround. The problem is you need to do it every now and then (when the issue happens again) as it is not a 'permanent fix (or work around)' whether that be literally permanent or permanent for your logged in session. That is why I posted as I did.

Now, if you meant something else from 'sure fire workaround' then perhaps you need to reword it to imply correctly what you mean as, the correct (sure fire) work around has been mentioned just not a permanent solution.  That said, perhaps you just didn't know about the wireframe fix working 100% of the time, despite me and others posting about it months and years ago in a similar thread to this. If that's the case then your post makes sense in what you wrote due to your ignorance of the wireframe workaround.

No idea how you thought that it was insensitive or whatever in me saying that. As for your age thing. I am so sorry, I don't make a habit of opening everyone's profile just to see what their rez date is before posting. 🙄 Not to mention just because I stated something like that in response to you doesn't mean it wouldn't be helpful for any other person wondering how long it has existed.

Edited by Drayke Newall
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23 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

My response didn't have any sort of undertone of whatever to it and I read your post correctly, it's just I assumed you meant something else because of such a method existing already. You stated that there are lots of workarounds for it but not a singular 'sure fire' work around.

I am not sure what 'sure fire' means for you but, I took it as you meaning permanent as, a 'surefire' workaround (literal meaning: certain or likely, especially to succeed) does exist in the wireframe entry mode fix posted which you responded to. It is 100% guaranteed to rez everything properly in your view. That method is your 'surefire' workaround. The problem is you need to do it every now and then (when the issue happens again) as it is not a 'permanent fix (or work around)' whether that be literally permanent or permanent for your logged in session. That is why I posted as I did.

Now, if you meant something else from 'sure fire workaround' then perhaps you need to reword it to imply correctly what you mean as, the correct (sure fire) work around has been mentioned just not a permanent solution.  That said, perhaps you just didn't know about the wireframe fix working 100% of the time, despite me and others posting about it months and years ago in a similar thread to this. If that's the case then your post makes sense in what you wrote due to your ignorance of the wireframe workaround.

No idea how you thought that it was insensitive or whatever in me saying that. As for your age thing. I am so sorry, I don't make a habit of opening everyone's profile just to see what their rez date is before posting. 🙄 Not to mention just because I stated something like that in response to you doesn't mean it wouldn't be helpful for any other person wondering how long it has existed.

Funny thing: No the Wireframe "fix" is not "100% Guaranteed" to cause seemingly unrezzed/missing objects to pop back into view.

Works for you? Great! Perhaps you didn't know that it doesn't work a hundred percent of the time - if it did, then personally I'd not have bothered to respond with the post you'd quoted.

Doesn't for me and frankly neither of us can speak for the experience of anyone else, we can only state what is and offer potential solutions.

You ascribed a meaning to my post/words that was not present: There being no singular, surefire workaround was a statement of fact. Nothing more.

As for the rest, my apologies. I'm of the mind that if you're wondering how long something has existed you're either going to ask or go looking for the answer. An answer that's been stated already.

Edited by Solar Legion
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