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hmm.. discuss terms.. 

sounds more like someone seeking some sort of relationship then just help..

or someone willing to be someones piggy if they help them look good and fit in..

help shouldn't have terms or a fee or anything along that added on..

'show me the ropes and i will be your sub/slave/pet for x amount of time'

'teach me and help me make myself look good and I will tribute too you for doing so'

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9 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

 

help shouldn't have terms or a fee or anything along that added on..

So if I need help with a stopped up drain the plumber should come to my house and help me for free?

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4 hours ago, Talligurl said:

So if I need help with a stopped up drain the plumber should come to my house and help me for free?

not the same thing. what you are referencing is a paid rl service. it takes little time or effort to actually help someone in sl to create or outfit an avatar. to assume that one should be paid for that in some way is sort of ridiculous and a bit egotistical.

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4 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

not the same thing. what you are referencing is a paid rl service. it takes little time or effort to actually help someone in sl to create or outfit an avatar. to assume that one should be paid for that in some way is sort of ridiculous and a bit egotistical.

A plumber comes to my house and spends 5 minutes with a plunger and charges me $150.00 and that is OK, but if I spend 30 minutes to an hour with someone helping them figure out something in SL and ask for a couple bucks worth of Linden I am ridiculous and a bit egotistical?

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4 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

not the same thing. what you are referencing is a paid rl service. it takes little time or effort to actually help someone in sl to create or outfit an avatar. to assume that one should be paid for that in some way is sort of ridiculous and a bit egotistical.

People have businesses in sl to help you remake their avatar.  It's not too much to ask to be paid for your time and expertise just like any other service.  Now if someone wants just some basic information, that's helping and doesn't take much time..   But if you're going to help them build an avatar from scratch, I see no problem getting paid for that.  Finding the right components, the skin they like, hair, clothes for their style.  Damn right that takes a lot of time.  Time is money, as they say.  

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Just now, Talligurl said:

A plumber comes to my house and spends 5 minutes with a plunger and charges me $150.00 and that is OK, but if I spend 30 minutes to an hour with someone helping them figure out something in SL and ask for a couple bucks worth of Linden I am ridiculous and a bit egotistical?

two very different things.. one is a professional service you paid for. and you paid the going rate that they charged. if you didnt like the price you could have fired them and tried to do it yourself.

the other is not..

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1 minute ago, RowanMinx said:

People have businesses in sl to help you remake their avatar.  It's not too much to ask to be paid for your time and expertise just like any other service.  Now if someone wants just some basic information, that's helping and doesn't take much time..   But if you're going to help them build an avatar from scratch, I see no problem getting paid for that.  Finding the right components, the skin they like, hair, clothes for their style.  Damn right that takes a lot of time.  Time is money, as they say.  

it doesn't take as much time or effort as people think. just a little effort on their part and not being so lazy.

and time is not money.. not to everyone.. not when playing a 'game' for that is all this is or ever will be.

what you are wanting is to excuse taking advantage over their lack of knowledge instead of just pointing them in the right way. that is what helping is..

what you described is not helping but providing a service. there is a difference between the two. if someone wants to foolishly pay for such a service that is on them.

 

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5 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

You dont need "help" with that, you need a professional to repair your stopped up pipe. He isn't helping, he is working. 

Why cant some people understand this fact... one is a service.. the person is working for the money. the other is not if they are 'helping'. plumbers dont help.. they work. there is a very distinct difference between the two.

and yes I think it is foolish and ridiculous of anyone to ever pay anyone to help them with their avatar. its a waste of money just to be lazy and save a little time and not learn something along the way.

i never paid anyone for help with my avatar.. nor will I ever.. it would just be stupid of me to do so, when I can find and get and wear/add all the things I would ever want or need on my own. because I was not lazy and learned how to do it.

I dont need to let anyone else tell me what is right or best or cool or fashionable or fits the role.. that is just being lazy.

its because of people being lazy that they get discouraged when they cant then do other things on their own and always need to have help again and get charged for it.. and eventually leave.

Edited by Drakonadrgora Darkfold
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1 minute ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

it doesn't take as much time or effort as people think. just a little effort on their part and not being so lazy.

and time is not money.. not to everyone.. not when playing a 'game' for that is all this is or ever will be.

what you are wanting is to excuse taking advantage over their lack of knowledge instead of just pointing them in the right way. that is what helping is..

what you described is not helping but providing a service. there is a difference between the two. if someone wants to foolishly pay for such a service that is on them.

 

I'm not looking for an excuse for anything.  As I said, giving some general information, some landmarks to free places, explaining how different functions work, doesn't take much time and of course shouldn't cost anything.  However, I have spent literally hours trying to help someone with all manner of things.  Some were very grateful for the help.  Others, not even a thank you.  I'm always more than happy to answer question if someone asks.  What I won't do anymore is take them by the hand and walk them to every place, explain everything, spend MY sl time (even though it's a game, it's MY game, MY time)and not even get a thanks.  It's happened more times than you can imagine.  I, personally, have never taken any money from anyone for help.  All I was saying was, it IS a business in SL.

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6 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

Why cant some people understand this fact... one is a service.. the person is working for the money. the other is not if they are 'helping'. plumbers dont help.. they work. there is a very distinct difference between the two.

and yes, we do know the difference.

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4 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

I'm not looking for an excuse for anything.  As I said, giving some general information, some landmarks to free places, explaining how different functions work, doesn't take much time and of course shouldn't cost anything.  However, I have spent literally hours trying to help someone with all manner of things.  Some were very grateful for the help.  Others, not even a thank you.  I'm always more than happy to answer question if someone asks.  What I won't do anymore is take them by the hand and walk them to every place, explain everything, spend MY sl time (even though it's a game, it's MY game, MY time)and not even get a thanks.  It's happened more times than you can imagine.  I, personally, have never taken any money from anyone for help.  All I was saying was, it IS a business in SL.

see that is your problem.. you expect gratification for help.. that is not what help is about. you want to be thanked or praised.. again that is not what helping is for. you expected to be paid back in some fashion for your 'help' or you feel you wasted your time..

helping is just doing it because you can, without any expectations of any return on the investment.. emotional or financial or physical.

I too have spent hours even days helping others figure things out and never once expected to be thanked for it or praised or shown gratitude. I spent MY time helping. yet didnt care if they didnt even say thank you at the end. But that is just who I am.

Edited by Drakonadrgora Darkfold
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2 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

see that is your problem.. you expect gratification for help.. that is not what help is about. you want to be thanked or praised.. again that is not what helping is for.

helping is just doing it because you can, without any expectations of any return on the investment.. emotional or financial.

If you'd reference the OP, he did say discuss terms so shouldn't we assume he's looking for a paid service or favors?

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1 minute ago, RowanMinx said:

If you'd reference the OP, he did say discuss terms so shouldn't we assume he's looking for a paid service or favors?

not necessarily so. terms could be anything.. they didnt say what sort of terms. dont assume things. that is the biggest problem anyone can ever do is assume.

their terms could simply being owned or a play toy or whatever. they were not clear on the terms. which is part of the problem. had they said they are looking to pay someone to make them an avatar and outfits that would have been different.

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19 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

two very different things.. one is a professional service you paid for. and you paid the going rate that they charged. if you didnt like the price you could have fired them and tried to do it yourself.

the other is not..

A professional service? Well what if I pay the kid down the street to pull the weeds out of my flower bed? He is not a professional weed puller. However he and I can make an agreement where he provides me a service and i pay him for it. It is the same thing that happens with me and the plumber, and the same thing that happens if two people agree in SL that one will pay the other for help. To judge that as being somehow wrong is arrogant, no one is forcing anyone from paying for anything they do not want to pay for. No one is forcing someone else from doing it for free. People can do what they want. It is neither ridiculous nor egotistical.

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1 minute ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

not necessarily so. terms could be anything.. they didnt say what sort of terms. dont assume things. that is the biggest problem anyone can ever do is assume.

their terms could simply being owned or a play toy or whatever. they were not clear on the terms. which is part of the problem. had they said they are looking to pay someone to make them an avatar and outfits that would have been different.

Which is itself, a form of payment.

Edited by RowanMinx
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1 minute ago, RowanMinx said:

And a thank you is just polite.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with gratification.  But then I guess we shouldn't expect basic social skills either.  Thank you doesn't cost a thing yet means so much.

thank you is a form of gratification.. its a form of praise..

thank yous are not required as any sort of basic social skills.. or common courtesy or any other bs that people try and claim them to be part of.

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3 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

thank you is a form of gratification.. its a form of praise..

thank yous are not required as any sort of basic social skills.. or common courtesy or any other bs that people try and claim them to be part of.

It's a form of gratitude not praise.  Praise is a one way street.  Gratitude/thanks is reciprocal.

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