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4 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

I am certain they do, we both know as men that when women are young always try to look older and when they do get older they try to look younger, it's part of their psychology.

Anyway most of them (not everyone) are good girls and avoid doing stupid things and if a man is careful and respects himself can understand the age gap by experience when talking with them. For instance when i was 25 i was talking about my career and travels, those girls who were 16-17 and approached me were still talking about pikachu and pokemons... so it was very simple to understand that they were still daddy's little girls. You can understand a lot of things just by talking to somebody even before checking their ID's.

Oh yes, if my math is right we are about the same age.  I remember hanging with my mates in harvard SQ when i was in my mid 20's and chatting up what we thought were college girls walking by, until they started gushing about the various cartoons that were on.. 

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Soooooooo in other words basically you were here for the pixel boom-booms.  

Can I haz yer stuffz?

well... it wasn't that long ...        

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22 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

The internet is going to be more "stricter" though now that the U.S. Congress has stated there is no right to online privacy.  There may soon be new ways we have to log in.  

I think MODERATE is a mistake personally, and see no need for it.  It should be General or Adult period, end of discussion.  Why can't they create a code for a verified adult for access to Zindra for example?   This is just a generalized question, not necessarily directed to anyone in particular.  

There are tools if one has land control to set 18+ and payment info on file people only.  I know I had a club and had land rights so I could have set 18+ and payment info on file only people, but it was a tiny club for General so I didn't need it.  So, why is there a place to check 18+ on the land if it doesn't work?

That's nice.

The 18+ is a holdover/relic from when they outsourced their "Age Verification" - a system that *le gasp!* could most certainly be tricked.

We had a dual rating system before Adult was created and funnily enough some places were quite .... disorganized to be polite about it. I may not personally like how they just tossed everything that fir the new rating onto a new continent but removing the median rating at this pint would be a grave mistake. Not an opinion either, simple reality.

You seeing a need for it or not means diddly squat.

As for your assertions regarding Congress and having no right to privacy ... Citation Needed.

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15 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

As for your assertions regarding Congress and having no right to privacy ... Citation Needed.

You'll have to search it.

We had a thread here on SL forums about it though and there will be some new kind of way we will all soon have to be logging in.  I am not familiar with the technical terms for the new log that's coming around the bend.  I can look up the thread later; I can't right now.

 

Edited by FairreLilette
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Let's see here ... DuckDuckGo (so no Google Analytics or similar skewing) search for Congress Right to Privacy and for Congress Right to Privacy Curbed shows ....

Nothing whatsoever suggesting anything you have thus far asserted.

Quite the opposite in fact.

So again: Citation Needed. No, not some thread or a link to a thread - the actual, verifiable, trustworthy information source.

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48 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

The internet is going to be more "stricter" though now that the U.S. Congress has stated there is no right to online privacy.  There may soon be new ways we have to log in.  

I think MODERATE is a mistake personally, and see no need for it.  It should be General or Adult period, end of discussion.  Why can't they create a code for a verified adult for access to Zindra for example?   This is just a generalized question, not necessarily directed to anyone in particular.  

There are tools if one has land control to set 18+ and payment info on file people only.  I know I had a club and had land rights so I could have set 18+ and payment info on file only people, but it was a tiny club for General so I didn't need it.  So, why is there a place to check 18+ on the land if it doesn't work?

Adult is more of a business rating than it is anything.. A lot of people hear Adult and think only porn, when really it's much more than that..you have RP places that can be about drugs or whatever, death and so on..

Moderate separates residential from business pretty much.. Sex clubs are a business and would need to use an Adult rating because they advertise.. Where residents can have sex parties with friends in their home and it would fall under moderate because they are not trying to advertise the party to the whole world..

Watching sex movies in your house would be moderate, but selling sex movies would be considers adult.

since not all residents are in business, we need a moderate rating for residential..

General ,none of those things are allowed.

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8 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

So again: Citation Needed. No, not some thread or a link to a thread - the actual, verifiable, trustworthy information source.

A link to the thread would be helpful to clear up whatever misunderstanding there might be.

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6 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

A link to the thread would be helpful to clear up whatever misunderstanding there might be.

Or it could just further propagate it.

I'll be as blunt as possible: Unless said thread contains what has been asked for (a verifiable, trustworthy information source) then it is not worth much whatsoever.

I would not be at all surprised to learn that this all stemmed from some OP/ED piece wherein someone utterly misinterpreted existing/future laws and/or existing cases/court decisions.

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25 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Or it could just further propagate it.

I'll be as blunt as possible: Unless said thread contains what has been asked for (a verifiable, trustworthy information source) then it is not worth much whatsoever.

I would not be at all surprised to learn that this all stemmed from some OP/ED piece wherein someone utterly misinterpreted existing/future laws and/or existing cases/court decisions.

I'll have to look through my history when I get a chance but you can see by Tilia Pay, we don't have much in the way of privacy here.  And, all linden transactions go through Tilia Pay now, don't they?  Well, I get a pop screen that says Tilia Pay even if the lindens were given to me.  

 

TILIA PAY TOS

In order to be eligible to access and use the Tilia Service, you must (i) be eighteen (18) years of age or older, (ii) have the legal ability to enter into and be bound by these Terms and the relevant Platform TOS, (iii) have accepted the Platform TOS applicable to the particular Platform through which you are accessing the Tilia Service and remain eligible to access and use such Platform, (iv) comply with these Terms, and (iv) establish and maintain an active and valid user account with Tilia (”Account” or “Tilia Account”).

 

To create a Tilia Account and/or access certain features or functionality of the Tilia Service, we may require you to provide us with your name, address, date of birth, telephone number, street address or zip code, and other information that will allow us to identify you. We may also ask to see your driver's license or other identifying documents. You agree to provide accurate, current and complete information about yourself and to use the Account management tools provided to keep that information accurate, current and complete. We may request additional information from you in the future. If you have previously provided identifying information to a Provider in connection with your use of a Platform, you authorize the Provider to share that information with us, and we may use this information to verify your identity. We may validate the information you provide to us to ensure we have a reasonable belief of your identity. We reserve the right to refuse, suspend, limit or terminate your access to all or a portion of the Tilia Service at any time in our sole discretion.

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Ah yes, as the 'kids' these days describe it: A Nothingburger.

Go read the ToS for PayPal or any other, similar service. You will see similar, boiler-plate language. It does not mean what you believe it to mean.

Now that that has been put into the open and cleared up ... Time to drop the misinformation/sky-is-falling schtick.

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10 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Time to drop the misinformation/sky-is-falling schtick.

You are the one that acts like this.

If the right to online privacy ends, I don't care if the government watches me buy lip gloss and others said the same in the thread above.  We don't care.  Why you care and the sky would be falling is on you, not me...because I don't care.  

I put up the Tilia TOS because LL did not used to know who we were but it's different now, and things are changing and will change.  It's better to wait for the changes then to sit here speculating, but the 2fa thread had others who heard about Congress and ending the right to online privacy...it was not just me.  However, wait n see is really all that is reality but I still don't care.  Let the government even watch me buy panties online...I still don't care.   

Edited by FairreLilette
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If you do not care then stop mentioning it/acting as if your personal interpretation of it supersedes the facts/reality. Further do not even attempt to paint those who question you as the ones going around acting like the sky is falling.

Here's the part I care about: Not riling up the absolutely gullible masses. Beginning and end.

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31 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

If you do not care then stop mentioning it/acting as if your personal interpretation of it supersedes the facts/reality. Further do not even attempt to paint those who question you as the ones going around acting like the sky is falling.

Here's the part I care about: Not riling up the absolutely gullible masses. Beginning and end.

It was worth discussing in a thread that involved teens and minors plus I find it interesting how things are changing and/or will change.  I also do not care if LL knows who I am and I don't know why anyone else should.   I think it's a good thing but I don't care if the government watches me buy lip gloss or panties or what color I choose.  There are real things to care about in this life.  

The OP should know though that hitting that report button and copying and pasting into the report anyone claiming to be a minor involved in the Adult areas that it needs to be reported immediately and that is the end of it.  It sucks because the person gets their emotions all tangled up, but it still needs to be reported immediately.  

If you think teens aren't online...I remember my step-daughter and her girlfriends on the computer when they were teens giggling.  Yes, teens are online and in the sex cyber rooms.  I couldn't get online one day and had to check something for Ebay, so I went to see if my step-daughter left her computer on and sure enough she did.  So, I'm going to Ebay site and a pop window appears and it was a very racy message for a 16-year-old.  

EDIT:  My step-daughter learned about men on the internet in her teenage years and as a matter of fact, the man she married she met on the internet.  

 

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44 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

You are the one that acts like this.

If the right to online privacy ends, I don't care if the government watches me buy lip gloss and others said the same in the thread above.  We don't care.  Why you care and the sky would be falling is on you, not me...because I don't care.  

I put up the Tilia TOS because LL did not used to know who we were but it's different now, and things are changing and will change.  It's better to wait for the changes then to sit here speculating, but the 2fa thread had others who heard about Congress and ending the right to online privacy...it was not just me.  However, wait n see is really all that is reality but I still don't care.  Let the government even watch me buy panties online...I still don't care.   

Isn't that just for cashing out?

I mean if you are just buying lindens and using them in world, you shouldn't have to give up all that information..

Also if LL is sending out 1099 forms, it's a good chance they know who those people are.

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8 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Isn't that just for cashing out?

I mean if you are just buying lindens and using them in world, you shouldn't have to give up all that information..

Also if LL is sending out 1099 forms, it's a good chance they know who those people are.

I don't think so, I believe it's the default TOS when buying lindens too.  Plus, all transactions seem to be going through Tilia Pay now, at least I'm getting a message that says so even if I am buying an item(s) on MP.  It says something about Tilia Pay.  There was a thread with one of the Lindens just before Tilia Pay took over at the end of May. 

I gotta exit the thread now but you could address your question to @ a Linden name for full clarification on Tilia Pay TOS and buying linden rather than cashing out.   

Edited by FairreLilette
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1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

I don't think so, I believe it's the default TOS when buying lindens too.  Plus, all transactions seem to be going through Tilia Pay now, at least I'm getting a message that says so even if I am buying an item(s) on MP.  It says something about Tilia Pay.  There was a thread with one of the Lindens when Tilia Pay took over. 

I gotta exit the thread now but you could address your question to @ a Linden name for full clarification on Tilia Pay TOS and buying linden rather than cashing out.   

You do not have to supply the additional information about your real life identity to Tilia if all you are doing is buying lindens or buying something from the MP.   I buy lindens every month and have never been asked to provide additional identification information.

Yes, those transactions are now processed through Tilia Pay, but the identity requirements have to do with processing credit and cashing out where you are converting lindens to USD and (potentially) taking the USD out of the system.

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12 minutes ago, Moira Timmerman said:

You do not have to supply the additional information about your real life identity to Tilia if all you are doing is buying lindens or buying something from the MP.   I buy lindens every month and have never been asked to provide additional identification information.

Yes, those transactions are now processed through Tilia Pay, but the identity requirements have to do with processing credit and cashing out where you are converting lindens to USD and (potentially) taking the USD out of the system.

We basically agree to Tilia's TOS by default.  But, I have not ever been asked for personal information.  It's kinda weird though.  lol

What’s changing? 

Effective August 1, in order to continue using Second Life you will have to agree to Tilia’s Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.  A Tilia Account associated with your Second Life Account will automatically be created for you and you will not need a separate username or password to access your Tilia Account.  

In order to stay in compliance with regulatory requirements, if you wish to process a credit, we will need certain personal information to verify your identity, including your name, address, date of birth, and social security number (or government-issued identification if you are not a U.S. Citizen).  You may be required to provide additional information to complete the transaction. Tilia will securely store this information so that you should only need to provide it once.

Additionally, please note that customers under 18 years of age will not be able to process credit after August 1, 2019 until they reach the age of 18. 

As always, Second Life remains free to access and enjoy!  However, if your Tilia Account is inactive for a period of 12 months we will charge your Tilia Account a fee to the extent permitted by applicable law.  If you have questions about the inactivity fee, please see Tilia’s Terms of Service.

Why am I required to provide personal information to Tilia and what will you do with it?

As registered money services businesses, Linden Lab and Tilia are required to comply with applicable U.S. laws and regulations. As part of our ongoing risk management process, we must obtain, verify, and record information about our customers for whom we offer financial-related services. 

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16 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

We basically agree to Tilia's TOS by default.  But, I have not ever been asked for personal information.  It's kinda weird though.  lol

What’s changing? 

Effective August 1, in order to continue using Second Life you will have to agree to Tilia’s Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.  A Tilia Account associated with your Second Life Account will automatically be created for you and you will not need a separate username or password to access your Tilia Account.  

In order to stay in compliance with regulatory requirements, if you wish to process a credit, we will need certain personal information to verify your identity, including your name, address, date of birth, and social security number (or government-issued identification if you are not a U.S. Citizen).  You may be required to provide additional information to complete the transaction. Tilia will securely store this information so that you should only need to provide it once.

Additionally, please note that customers under 18 years of age will not be able to process credit after August 1, 2019 until they reach the age of 18. 

As always, Second Life remains free to access and enjoy!  However, if your Tilia Account is inactive for a period of 12 months we will charge your Tilia Account a fee to the extent permitted by applicable law.  If you have questions about the inactivity fee, please see Tilia’s Terms of Service.

Why am I required to provide personal information to Tilia and what will you do with it?

As registered money services businesses, Linden Lab and Tilia are required to comply with applicable U.S. laws and regulations. As part of our ongoing risk management process, we must obtain, verify, and record information about our customers for whom we offer financial-related services. 

Big bold letters are the important part.. Process a credit means cashing out L$ to USD. End of story. They do not need your info to buy L$ only to cash out. Ever wonder why? Because they cant just give you USD without keeping account info. They need that info for tax reasons. Just like you do. That money is actually income and should be counted as such on your taxes each year.

But hey, FUD is so much more fun than facts, right? 

Again though, that has nothing to do with Congress like you keep saying. So where is that info? What is your source for your statements about Congress removing online privacy?

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I don't cash out  and am not required by LL to register with Tilia because I don't cash out. 

Congress does not own the internet (no one does) and can NOT force people in other countries to aide by US laws. Congress does not have the power to force US citizens to use a specific log in on their personal computers. Microsoft, Linux etc ALL have their own special log ins for your home computers. It's up to the individual to use them. 

Now, get the ef off my lawn with the ignorance.

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1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Again though, that has nothing to do with Congress like you keep saying. So where is that info? What is your source for your statements about Congress removing online privacy?

Oh, yes, sorry it was my misunderstanding as it involves CONTACT TRACING APPS regarding COVID-19.  It is more likely to effect "real" people sites like Facebook for example and the CONTACT TRACING APPS are being disputed as an invasion of privacy, but the Congress may enact it into law to avoid any conflict in contact tracing us regarding Covid-19.  

This has just been over-kill with news these past few months.  On that I just read the headline and not the whole story...it said "Congress Will Pass Bill To End Online Privacy" but, again, it's in regards to Covid-19 tracing.

Edited by FairreLilette
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What seems to be the problem about Tilia?

We all provide info when it comes to withdrawing money from Second Life and it has nothing to do with being Adult or American or whatever. Even those of us from Europe and covered by the General Data Protection Regulation -GDPR, (we have nothing to do with your U.S laws on privacy, congress decisions or whatever) provide id/contact info otherwise Linden Lab can't proceed with payment and that is understandable. They need to be able as a company to show where those money go.

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3 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

We basically agree to Tilia's TOS by default.

This is incorrect. It is your CHOICE if you want to agree or not.  'I" along with quite a few of my real life friends as well as people who have come forth here on the forums have NOT agreed to Tilia :D.   With the "big change" quoted a couple of posts up it ADDED the need to agree to Tilia for the folks that were buying Lindens OR using their Paypal account.   

 

Before that time you could opt out of Tilia as long as you did not have a USD balance.  You could buy linden dollars if you so chose and you could pay tier or membership using Paypal without agreeing to Tilia. Tilia TOS and privacy policy  acquiescence  was not needed. Now that is no longer true. 

 

So before I could have paid membership fees and mainland tier via Paypal while still not agreeing to Tilia.  A friend who had gone to great lengths not to agree to Tilia or give any info paid her recent membership with a credit card.  I am not sure if the  "by clicking this link you are agreeing to" message (not OPT IN so easy to overlook) was connect to a credit card payment also. Hoping not as that was NOT her intent :D,  Maybe someone who has recently paid via credit card can comment. 

 

55 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

What seems to be the problem about Tilia?

There is no major problem with Tilia for many people. "I" and some others (who knows how many) were not willing to have our personal info in yet another database; we did not agree with the wording of the Tilia TOS or the US privacy policy.  Some of these folks work in Internet security.   So that was OUR choice.   The majority of folks here didn't care at all -- and that is their right and their point of view.  

 

So while I haven't really read this thread the Tilia rules DID change from last August and some folks were not happy about it and some got caught because they didn't understand.   That much I do know.  I  chose to switch to "game" mode rather than "income" mode. Some creators simply left.    

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33 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

This is incorrect. It is your CHOICE if you want to agree or not.  'I" along with quite a few of my real life friends as well as people who have come forth here on the forums have NOT agreed to Tilia :D.   With the "big change" quoted a couple of posts up it ADDED the need to agree to Tilia for the folks that were buying Lindens OR using their Paypal account.   

 

It's confusing BUT how did you opt out? 

There was a thread in May with Grumpity Linden, I'm attempting to find but busy in real life.  

There is no way to agree to the Tilia TOS when I buy lindens, it just is...meaning there is no ACCEPT or DECLINE when buying lindens and this is what most of the posters were protesting in that thread with one of the Lindens, Grumpity maybe, that they wanted an ACCEPT or DECLINE button TOS for Tilia when buying linden, not just cashing out.  

Later, I will see if I can find the thread about the new Tilia because the old Tilia with cashing out happened awhile ago.  This new Tilia is in regards to beginning August 1, 2020.  

 

In July 2019, Tilia Incorporated, a wholly owned subsidiary of Linden Lab, officially took over the management.

Now, in an expansion of Tilia’s role with Second Life, Linden Lab has announced that as from Monday, May 26th, 2020 Tilia Inc, via its Tilia Pay platform, will be managing all US dollar transactions related to Second Life, including those involving conversion of funds to other currencies.

This means that, as from Monday, May 26th, anyone:

  • Making a payment through one of their indicated payment methods – credit card, debit card, PayPal, or Skrill (as indicated on their Second Life account), such as purchasing Linden dollars
  • Adding a new payment method to their Second Life account

Will be consenting to the Tilia Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.

The change is being driven to both comply with regulatory requirements across a number of U.S. states and to leverage he enhanced fraud and money laundering safeguards that Tilia Pay provides.

The important things to note here are:

  • All Second Life users should be familiar with the Tilia Pay Terms of Service (and Not just those who have either a US dollar balance associated with their account and / or cash-out money from SL).
  • Users will not be explicitly asked to confirm their agreement with the Tilia ToS / Privacy Policy. Rather, when paying with a payment method (e.g. credit card) or adding a new payment method to an account, a users will see text stating that by proceeding with the transaction, they are agreeing to both the ToS and Privacy Policy.
  • This move does not:
    • Introduce any new fees.
    • Require users to submit any additional information to Tilia Incorporated or Linden Lab.
    • Change how L$ transactions are conducted in the Viewer or in the Marketplace.

 

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6 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Except the only thread i can find about it is when @FairreLilette says Congress has done so, with no facts to back her claims.. 

 

And this should surprise neither you, nor @Solar Legion, nor anyone else who has ever followed or read anything from that FL avatar. It is always clueless nonsense, and no matter how many facts, articles, posts, using no matter how much logic and patience, that one will always stick to whatever cockamamie idea she starts with. This is a PSA.

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48 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

It's confusing BUT how did you opt out? 

There was a thread in May with Grumpity Linden, I'm attempting to find but busy in real life.  

There is no way to agree to the Tilia TOS when I buy lindens, it just is...meaning there is no ACCEPT or DECLINE when buying lindens and this is what most of the posters were protesting in that thread with one of the Lindens, Grumpity maybe, that they wanted an ACCEPT or DECLINE button TOS for Tilia when buying linden, not just cashing out.  

I didn't say you could opt OUT after you had agreed, only that you had a choice by never opting in.  If you already bought linden dollars and hence "accepted" the no check-marked agreement (apparently illegal in some countries according to reports here on the forums), you have made your choice -- whether planned or not. In the latest change in the Tilia - SL method anyone buying lindens WILL be accepting  even if they don't realize it. I personally think that is wrong and that it should have been a check box so at least people were encouraged to read what they were agreeing too .   Many to most would have still checked that box to get their lindens.  

 

I am not sure if I saw that post you mentioned  about the check box but I certainly commented  on that methodology in  a thread or two back in May.   There are plenty of times that the forums get very nasty BUT at the same time it is pretty much the only way to understand what is going on and stay aware.  Reading the official blog post back in May was as confusing as it was informative.  Grumpity did come to the forums and clarify things. That was appreciated.  

 

So to be clear it is my understanding (and I have asked many times for clarification and usually received it) that the only way someone can "opt out" of Tilia's TOS and Privacy policy NOW is to stay completely out of the monetary system. 

Never buying lindens; living on  gifts and working for linden dollars.  So SL can still be enjoyed that way for the people that are adamant about not signing documents that they do not agree with.   MOST folks won't be doing that. SOME found out too late how they needed to handle things to preserve their -- security? honor? honesty?   Whatever works there.    

 

You don't NEED to spend money in order to enjoy Second Life. It will be harder now for folks just coming in that have no savings from times past -- but still doable.  I regularly give away very nice home and garden items as well as poses and I blog almost all of the best free stuff that I find such as clothing.  It is a challenge to live on the free economy, but sometimes challenges are fun.  

 

 

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