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24 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

i find that the forums are quite good these days.  The moderators have loosened their grip a bit over recent times and have allowed topics that in previous times would not have been allowed and shut down

which is a good thing overall as I think it reflects the maturity of the current forum participatory readership. The forum participants as a whole behave quite well I find. Sure sometimes we might in a down moment go off on a bit of a rant at Linden or each other, but compared to the total volume of posts then this is quite rare, and quite often when it does then the ranter will come back and apologise for what they said in the down moment

so altogether I find these forums today to be way more civilised than they have been in the past, even when a contentious topic is being discussed and debated robustly. Which I think is to the credit of the moderators and the forum participants

I quite agree with Molly, actually. And with this, from Elora:

3 hours ago, Elora Lunasea said:

Oh gurl. You should have experienced it years ago. It was brutal at times.

The current version we're using is much tamer. More rules and regulations and the mods pay closer attention than they used to.

As cranky as some of us have been over the past few months, it is nothing like what it once was. The moderation is much better now (even though I quarrel with it sometimes) -- in the old RA forum, it was frankly like the lawless Old West sometimes.

And most people here are civil and caring of the community. We have a few trolls, I suppose, but they are amateurs in comparison to those of 10 years ago, when this place sometimes felt as if it was actually run by them.

On the whole, I think everyone can give themselves a pat on the back: we're a pretty nice little community.

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I think a lot really has to do with people still being cooped up for so long and so much change happening this summer..   Even a lot of introverts are like, C'mon! Let me outta here!! \o/

God you people need thicker skins. It is cartoon avatars, get over it.

38 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

even when a contentious topic is being discussed and debated robustly

Problems arise from misunderstandings in what someone says though and that is the truth and it happens because of too many posts going through at once.  

If something is not understood, it might be a good idea to say...WAIT.... STOP... PAUSE...PAUSE...ALERT, YOU MISUNDERSTOOD ME...and not say anymore than that until the thread cools down.  We all need to wait and read the reply too, not just "react" and keep tons of posts going at one person without giving them a chance to answer.  

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7 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I quite agree with Molly, actually. And with this, from Elora:

As cranky as some of us have been over the past few months, it is nothing like what it once was. The moderation is much better now (even though I quarrel with it sometimes) -- in the old RA forum, it was frankly like the lawless Old West sometimes.

And most people here are civil and caring of the community. We have a few trolls, I suppose, but they are amateurs in comparison to those of 10 years ago, when this place sometimes felt as if it was actually run by them.

On the whole, I think everyone can give themselves a pat on the back: we're a pretty nice little community.

This.

I was literally stalked daily by someone back then - which began for no reason. A very well known trouble-maker. It even spilled over to Ghosty. I got so disgusted I left this forum for an enormous amount of time. Found a safer place and made more friends there. Then this person followed me to the new forum and began to harass me again.

Luckily, that one wasn't run by LL and the persons reputation followed with them. Said person was banned nearly immediately. Those people had my back completely.

I didn't come back here until I found out said person was no longer active in SL. It's been a nice experience here since then, with arguments few and far between. 

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I often find that perceived lack of civility can be a cultural thing; someone in one country may regard a particular behaviour as displaying lack of civility whereas in another country the same behaviour may be regarded as perfectly civil and acceptable.

There are huge differences in this regard between the US and the UK for example. In the UK we often think that American behaviour is "rude" because it doesn't conform to British standards of politeness; and the standards of politeness in Japan are even higher than ours. And yet on the other hand, British people tend to be much more tolerant of swearing and curse words which are acceptable in casual conversation here but would be totally unacceptable to American ears.  

It's no wonder that everyone gets confused.

Edited by Lewis Luminos
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3 minutes ago, Lewis Luminos said:

I often find that perceived lack of civility can be a cultural thing; someone in one country may regard a particular behaviour as displaying lack of civility whereas in another country the same behaviour may be regarded as perfectly civil and acceptable.

There are huge differences in this regard between the US and the UK for example. In the UK we often think that American behaviour is "rude" because it doesn't conform to British standards of politeness; and the standards of politeness in Japan are even higher than ours. And yet on the other hand, British people tend to be much more tolerant of swearing and curse words which are acceptable in casual conversation here but would be totally unacceptable to American ears.  

It's no wonder that everyone gets confused.

That is - partly anyway - why I just roll my eyes when anyone gripes about civility or politeness here.

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13 hours ago, AdminGirl said:
23 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

So, who is not being civil or polite? Is it the one who wants to talk about pineapples despite the small clubhouse not liking it, while knowing the greater groups likely wouldn't mind... or is it the clubhouse who doesn't want to hear about pineapples anymore and insists the pineapple lover should stop talking?

If there is a section in the forum for fruits, then the pineapple talk would be better there rather than in the poultry section.

And if the mentions border on advertising and is against TOS that's also worth considering.

Reminders of the abovementioned to the pineaple enthusiast, IMO should be expressed civilly. But the reminding itself isn't uncivil.

My pineapple example, though based on a current incident, is an attempt to analyze the 'group vs the individual' when matters of civility come into play. One of the considerations is, barring illegality, what powers should a group have vs an individual in determining what is right and wrong and thereby civil or not? I would say that a group assigns themselves more rights/power due to being greater in number. Persistent presence and visibility in an environment also plays a part, but this would hold true for any individual as well.

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21 hours ago, Nick0678 said:
23 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Let's say I just really liked pineapples and felt the need to talk about them a lot. Maybe I'm a pineapple grower and my gardening activities are central to my identity.

Well fact is if someone talks all the time about pineapples it does make them a very boring person to be with but anyway that's real life example where in some cases someone might think that they can't avoid some people, there's a difference in SL / forums / internet because someone can simply click the ignore button once they realize that they don't like a person and never see that persons posts again.

Actually it is unhealthy and self-torture when a person knows that doesn't like at all another person but keep on reading what that person is saying (and a bit stalkerish behavior), using the ignore button is the most civilized thing to do.

I would say that some people feel more of a responsibility to the group than you do, and so feel it their duty to help the entire group function better. Simply using the ignore button would not serve this goal for them, as it would only affect themselves.

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26 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

My pineapple example, though based on a current incident, is an attempt to analyze the 'group vs the individual' when matters of civility come into play. One of the considerations is, barring illegality, what powers should a group have vs an individual in determining what is right and wrong and thereby civil or not? I would say that a group assigns themselves more rights/power due to being greater in number. Persistent presence and visibility in an environment also plays a part, but this would hold true for any individual as well.

Oh right, I see where you were going with that now. There is definitely power in numbers, which doesn't always lead to favourable outcomes. But assigning too much power to any given individual can also be problematic. Ultimately humans are flawed, whether it's group or individual. There are situations where an individual oppresses a group, and also situations when it's the other way around where a larger group oppresses individuals.

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7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I would say that some people feel more of a responsibility to the group than you do, and so feel it their duty to help the entire group function better. Simply using the ignore button would not serve this goal for them, as it would only affect themselves.

Well i always considered myself as an individual and talked to other people as individuals which means that i never cared about being part of a group or what group they think that they are representing regardless if that's sexual, political, racial, sl or non sl , zodiac , mbti or "put whatever you like here".

If we get along we get along if we don't get along i simply choose ignore and move on. Life is short to spend it online arguing with people that you will never meet.

I am a practical person.

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1 hour ago, Nick0678 said:
2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I would say that some people feel more of a responsibility to the group than you do, and so feel it their duty to help the entire group function better. Simply using the ignore button would not serve this goal for them, as it would only affect themselves.

Well i always considered myself as an individual and talked to other people as individuals which means that i never cared about being part of a group or what group they think that they are representing regardless if that's sexual, political, racial, sl or non sl , zodiac , mbti or "put whatever you like here".

If we get along we get along if we don't get along i simply choose ignore and move on. Life is short to spend it online arguing with people that you will never meet.

I am a practical person.

Your individuality is refreshing. I'm just trying to figure out, for this forum group only, why more people don't just hit the Ignore button as you would do if you don't get along with someone. Barring the people just wanting to fight and make others wrong for the temporary surge of 'goodness', I'm thinking some might identify with the group more as a whole, and so feeling this connection causes an attempt to affect a better outcome for the group overall during a conflict. Of course this effort can be good or bad, depending on the motivation and skill of the people attempting to guide the group in a certain direction.

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38 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Your individuality is refreshing. I'm just trying to figure out, for this forum group only, why more people don't just hit the Ignore button as you would do if you don't get along with someone.

Thank you , i am a simple person so i simply know what i want and what i don't want, why make my life complicated for no reason. You want to talk everyday and all day about pineapples ok do it , i have feet and i simply won't sit around to hear you getting obsessed with it. Feel free to find people who like to talk about pineapples all day long. (used your example)

42 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Of course this effort can be good or bad, depending on the motivation and skill of the people attempting to guide the group in a certain direction.

Well not being part of any group for all my life also means i never had to adjust to group philosophies and such things so i can't give an answer on that, those who think that they belong in a specific group should raise their hands and voice themselves, it is their life and their choice to follow others.

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59 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Of course this effort can be good or bad, depending on the motivation and skill of the people attempting to guide the group in a certain direction.

Well not being part of any group for all my life also means i never had to adjust to group philosophies and such things so i can't give an answer on that, those who think that they belong in a specific group should raise their hands and voice themselves, it is their life and their choice to follow others.

Ok, so let me get this right. You post here as an individual, and not as a member of the SL forums.  And, you don't want to be or say you're part of any group because you'd feel you needed to totally agree with everything the group stands for?

For me, I can say I'm a member of the SL Forum, this group, but it doesn't mean I agree with everything here. Same for any other group I belong to. For example, I'm a staunch feminist in that I believe women should be seen as equal to men, but boy have I met some odd feminists I totally don't agree with (some woman who thought we should get rid of all men and reproduce with some bizarre means, creating a man-free utopia) -- it could be she was one can short of a six-pack though...and so belonged more to another category altogether...  

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2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Your individuality is refreshing. I'm just trying to figure out, for this forum group only, why more people don't just hit the Ignore button as you would do if you don't get along with someone. Barring the people just wanting to fight and make others wrong for the temporary surge of 'goodness', I'm thinking some might identify with the group more as a whole, and so feeling this connection causes an attempt to affect a better outcome for the group overall during a conflict. Of course this effort can be good or bad, depending on the motivation and skill of the people attempting to guide the group in a certain direction.

There are so many possible reasons for not utilizing the ignore option. Sure, your group theory could be one of them. I never use ignore because I feel that would be limiting. I wouldn't get the whole picture of conversations, and also because I think everyone has something valuable to say even if I may not get along with them. I've observed that people here don't clash with each other 100% of the times. The % where they don't clash is probably the reason for not using the block.

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Hahahaha i enjoy your curiosity, ok i will answer in the most simple way.

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Same for any other group I belong to.

First of all it's clear that i belong to myself (luckily don't owe any money to banks, that's a form of enslavement).

I am posting at the SL forums due to the fact that i like to play an online game that i find  good enough to spend money on it called Second Life and some other people from around the planet also like it otherwise we wouldn't be here, it really is that simple , at least for me.

19 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

For example, I'm a staunch feminist in that I believe women should be seen as equal to men, but boy have I met some odd feminists I totally don't agree with (some woman who thought we should get rid of all men and reproduce with some bizarre means, creating some utopia) -- it could be she was one can short of a six-pack though...and so belonged more to another category altogether...  

I understand what you mean, now if some women online are trying to figure out ways on how to commit genocide against half of the global population is not something that interests me as an idea to explore so why bother and fact is i am not dating any of them anyway and don't even know them. It would be better to discuss their thoughts with their therapists.

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On 8/3/2020 at 3:47 AM, Bagnu said:

I have honestly have never experienced anything inworld  as truly uncivil as what I have seen here in the forums. 

Neither have I. I’ve been inworld on the same sim, in the very presence of some of my worst enemies; and, they’ve stood there, quiet as a mouse...scared to talk.  

These forums aren’t so bad. Linden Lab is pro-active in their moderation. Often times they are even just. 

Like I told ya, keep doing you. Stay true to yourself. Stay REAL. Not everybody is gonna like you. Not everybody is gonna be your friend. Nothing wrong with an enemy or two. 

The people nit picking your posts have problems all their own. Some are friendless. Some are riddled with envy. Some are bored lil busybodies. Regardless, you win by staying true to YOU.  

By knowing  exactly who and what you are and NEVER apologizing for that no matter how uncivil people are is the very definition of “having a thick skin.” That’s how you crush your haters FLAT. 

Edited by Jumpman Lane
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On 8/3/2020 at 7:39 PM, Elora Lunasea said:

Oh gurl. You should have experienced it years ago. It was brutal at times.

The current version we're using is much tamer. More rules and regulations and the mods pay closer attention than they used to.

Yes the current forums is a cake walk to old forms, I actually had a good friend that got banned from SL for drunk posting here

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5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Ok, so let me get this right. You post here as an individual, and not as a member of the SL forums.  And, you don't want to be or say you're part of any group because you'd feel you needed to totally agree with everything the group stands for?

You make it sound like people congregate and lurk around here, plotting in numbers to jump out and attack people for little or no reason.  Having the same opinion as someone else does not make them a group of people up to nefarious purposes.

There is only one person I know and talk to regularly on these boards and whilst we may agree on some things, they have not taken part in the more "colourful debates" I have found myself involved in.  The people who have participated in those - I have never met, and never spoken to beyond quoting their posts and agreeing with their words. 

Individuals are able to come to the same conclusions and agree on the same matters.

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39 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

You make it sound

I'm simply trying to understand how Nick experiences himself via posting in these forums compared to how I do. It has nothing to do with you or any other posters here.

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5 hours ago, Nick0678 said:

I understand what you mean, now if some women online are trying to figure out ways on how to commit genocide against half of the global population is not something that interests me as an idea to explore so why bother and fact is i am not dating any of them anyway and don't even know them. It would be better to discuss their thoughts with their therapists.

lol well this woman (and her friends) were actually from RL, at a music festival with a campground.  I was with someone who had a male child and we quickly moved to the other side of the campground...

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52 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

You make it sound like people congregate and lurk around here, plotting in numbers to jump out and attack people for little or no reason.  Having the same opinion as someone else does not make them a group of people up to nefarious purposes.

There is only one person I know and talk to regularly on these boards and whilst we may agree on some things, they have not taken part in the more "colourful debates" I have found myself involved in.  The people who have participated in those - I have never met, and never spoken to beyond quoting their posts and agreeing with their words. 

Individuals are able to come to the same conclusions and agree on the same matters.

The Hive Mind speaketh lol.

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There's certainly an issue. Though not as bad as it used to be in which some inviduals of the forums have seemed to make it their mission to make others feel unwelcome through sheer toxcity, concentration and  even abusive behaviour.

But there are also individuals who are normally decent people. Until you try to say something they did was hurtful. Or try to explain why something they view as true, isn't. No matter how polite and sources used.

 

It can and has made folks feel unwelcome. Including myself. I don't want to argue with people. I don't want to feel like I have to defend myself or explain for the nth time that. X ypor Z facet of my existence isn't werid or broken. I don't want to have to state that, "actually caring about the suffering about our fellow human beings is good actually."

 

But it feels like I have to. Because otherwise, it'll just get worse.I am not part of some clique or in group. Or some drama monger.

I just want to, not have aspects of who I am treated like poop.

Because me and others like me aren't in poop, we're just people. 

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2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

lol well this woman (and her friends) were actually from RL, at a music festival with a campground.  I was with someone who had a male child and we quickly moved to the other side of the campground...

Yes i can understand that, many people under pressure might jump in to conclusions that are not healthy and if left unresolved actually can harm them. According to my logic you did well that you have left because such toxic ideas should not be taken seriously and especially not discussed with children. Our main responsibility as adults towards children and even more for those who are parents is to filter out any extremist/unhealthy ideas that can damage a child's character and eventually result in making it a dysfunctional member for the society. It seems though that many people have forgotten that is a crucial part of adulthood and act by prioritizing only their own needs.

I will explain regarding the forums and internet stuff and you will understand how my personality works

13 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I would say that some people feel more of a responsibility to the group than you do, and so feel it their duty to help the entire group function better. personality is.

What did we say in the other post? People act differently and you probably know by now that i am an ENTJ so the feeling part when it comes to such things as belonging to groups etc doesn't really interest me. For example i am 100% Atheist but i socialize all the time with Christians and Muslims in RL so we talk about stuff on religions on a philosophical level and sometimes even with their priests. That doesn't make me a Christian or Muslim, i already have decided for myself according to the way that i think based on my knowledge. Those who are too much in to their feelings and we can't talk i simply put them on ignore. It is the most civilized way to avoid noisy people.

(Thank you for the mini interview btw, fact is it's starting to look like reddit and that's too heavy for the second life gaming standards so lets go back to light and fun stuff.)

Edited by Nick0678
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