Lack of Civiity

[Bagnu]

2 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Anyone who loves Jeff's music and his role he played as himself in Road House, can't be all bad. 

I loved Roadhouse!!! Jeff Healy's blindness would have made him a better musician!!!

[Lyssa Greymoon]

5 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

The world is an uncivilized place.  It is full of barbaric people who are full of thier own egos and morals and ethics and standards. 

Humans are by basic nature uncivilized.. barbarians and vainful and egotistical  individuals. They just like to try and deceive themselves and others into believing they are something better. 

"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -REH

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, Bagnu said:

I loved Roadhouse!!! Jeff Healy's blindness would have made him a better musician!!!

Would have? He'd been blind since he was 1 year old. His eyes were removed. He started playing guitar at age 3.

And it's spelled Healey with 2 e's. 

He also played with Ringo Starr.

Only BB King was better.

[Bagnu]

10 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

The world is an uncivilized place.  It is full of barbaric people who are full of thier own egos and morals and ethics and standards. 

Humans are by basic nature uncivilized.. barbarians and vainful and egotistical  individuals. They just like to try and deceive themselves and others into believing they are something better. 

This why we have a penal system in every culture. It wouldn't be required otherwise.

[Bagnu]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Would have? He'd been blind since he was 1 year old. His eyes were removed. He started playing guitar at age 3.

And it's spelled Healey with 2 e's. 

He also played with Ringo Starr.

Only BB King was better.

Sorry for my misspelling. I read on him earlier. I meant that his blindness DID make him a great musician!!! When we lack one of our senses, the others become stronger.

[Silent Mistwalker]

6 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

This why we have a penal system in every culture. It wouldn't be required otherwise.

In my culture, penal systems were never needed. Then the Europeans invaded and brought their penal systems with them. 🤔

[Bagnu]

14 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -REH

Then what were considered savages in Robert E Howard's day are the more civilized ones.

[Bagnu]

4 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

In my culture, penal systems were never needed. Then the Europeans invaded and brought their penal systems with them. 🤔

Which culture are you from??? I would guess native North American from your profile pic.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Bagnu

[Chroma Starlight]

11 hours ago, Bagnu said:

I have honestly have never experienced anything inworld  as truly uncivil as what I have seen here in the forums. 

Then you'd be surprised. There are or have been well-known places that might as well have been the island from The Lord of the Flies, or worse.

I don't know about civility, but I'm all for civilization.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Chroma Starlight

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, Bagnu said:

I never said you have been uncivil to me. And yes I am listening. I do know disabled people in RL, and of course we are all people. We all have different limitations, and we work around them. A disability is just a limitation which can be worked around. I think of Jeff Healy and Ray Charles. 

But saying I live in a vacuum based upon nothing is not within my perception of civility.

Yep, and my other post was removed I gather for going off topic, but it said yes, "disabled" people that I know lead quite full lives.  They work full time, they drive, they have recording contracts, you name it and can do most things others can do.  My Mother worked most of her working life with a blind women too who brought a seeing eye dog to work every day.    

I felt there was too much stereotyping going on and especially when you said that none of your clients ever said they were disabled but you kept on with it, thus, I felt you are living in a vacuum based on nothing as your clients never said they were disabled.  I was just feeling like you were not listening to me at all but were in a mind-set, that's what I meant by living in a vacuum.  

My sister's beloved has had polio since he was a child.  He has quite a full life and is just like anyone else excepts as he might say "I just walk slower".

[Bagnu]

1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

Yep, and my other post was removed I gather for going off topic, but it said yes, "disabled" people that I know lead quite full lives.  They work full time, they drive, they have recording contracts, you name it and can do most things others can do.  My Mother worked most of her working life with a blind women too who brought a seeing eye dog to work every day.    

I felt there was too much stereotyping going on and especially when you said that none of your clients ever said they were disabled but you kept on with it, thus, I felt you are living in a vacuum based on nothing as your clients never said they were disabled.  I was just feeling like you were not listening to me at all but were in a mind-set, that's what I meant by living in a vacuum.  

My sister's beloved has had polio since he was a child.  He has quite a full life and is just like anyone else excepts as he might say "I just walk slower".

I obviously expressed myself incorrectly. The only people I would purposely offend are those that deliberately hurt others whether it would it would be here or or RL. Then I can be quite vicious .You are not in that category by any means. 

[Pixie Kobichenko]

Because @Bagnu mentioned him- he was amazing.  I can live without Roadhouse.  Is one of hubbies fave movies & I’ve seen it a looooot over the last 20+ years:

 

[Orwar]

   The forums have been more conflicted the past few months than it usually is, but I also think that comparing the forums to 'in-world' is a gross generalisation. If your in-world experiences have all been better than what you've seen on the forums, good for you - personally my experience is that people on the forums generally tend to behave somewhat, whilst people in-world can go entirely unhinged. I know there are times I've felt like saying something harsh or cruel on the forums but avoided it because of the moderator presence; in-world, most conflicts are regarded as personal disputes and you'll be advised to block each other (unless someone is being rampantly racist or sexist - and even then, there's no shortage of people with outrageous profile texts, or even wearing swastikas on their avies).

   Anyway, it's very much a matter of personal experience, I believe - my experience may be different from yours, and someone else may have a wholly different perspective. 

   What can be said though, when it comes to feeling repeatedly spoken to in an uncivil manner - if you crave respect from others, it may be a good place to start, to show them some respect first. If you want polite conversation, that can absolutely be found on the forums. I have plenty of forumites I communicate with regularly, both on the forums, in-world, and through Discord, it's not difficult to befriend people if you get to know them and treat them appropriately. 

   To both say that 'This is who I am, deal with it', and 'I want people to like me more and treat me nicely' is a contradiction; it's to want to have the cake and eat the cake. A person can't be obnoxious and expect that people will treat them nicely only because they feel entitled to act that way and also entitled to being treated nicely. 

   That statement was general, but to you Bagnu - if you'd just take a moment to reflect over the feedback and responses you've received the past few days, the way you offended disabled people and then dismissed their objections, claiming ignorance and poor wording as an excuse; do you think that you deserve those people to cater to your wishes of being treated civil? Do you expect those of us who, whilst not disabled ourselves, but sympathetic to those people, being friends with some of them, should treat you nicely? 

   Your attitude does not demand civility, and thus you find it in short supply. The issue certainly isn't 'the forums', most of us get along just fine - those who don't tend to avoid or block each other. Or set the occasional thread on fire, get smacked over the fingers by the moderators and sat on the naughty step for a bit.

2 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

In my culture, penal systems were never needed. Then the Europeans invaded and brought their penal systems with them. 🤔

   That's plain and simply an untrue statement, not to say prejudiced and ignorant. 

   First of all, 'native American' culture spans thousands of years, and many, many separate cultures, including hunter-gatherer type communities and agricultural communities - 'law' was not universal and perpetual, nor formalised the same way it was in Europe (blame the Romans!). And whilst it's true that there's no evidence of prisons á la Europe in northern America before the arrival of the Europeans, but that's not to say there were no penal systems in place, and that punishments - including executions - occurred. 

   Trying to apply modern law and modern philosophical sentiment on people from half a millennia ago is just silly. Did Columbus do anything unjust - well, justice is in the eye of the beholder, and his peers and especially his monarch he certainly didn't, to the papacy he certainly didn't, and to the rest of the European countries who went forth to exploit the discovery of a new continent inhabited by people unable to defend it against their soldiers, he certainly didn't. Mind, Europeans were quite happy slaughtering each other too at the time.

   If we were to be invaded by a technologically far advanced alien civilization today, do you think they'd care about how unfair you feel that is? Do you think that their descendants in half a millennia will care about how some grumpy earthlings feel that's unfair and that they want 'their' planet back? I bet your arse they'd still be using all those cool techy things the aliens brought though, a bit like the way you used the Internet to express your snide bitterness. 

[Bagnu]

47 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

Because @Bagnu mentioned him- he was amazing.  I can live without Roadhouse.  Is one of hubbies fave movies & I’ve seen it a looooot over the last 20+ years:

 

Lol!!!  Patrick Swayze was hot though!!! And I read the fight was actually real!!!

[Bagnu]

21 minutes ago, Orwar said:

That's plain and simply an untrue statement, not to say prejudiced and ignorant.    

The truth of this statement is irrelevant in this thread. Writing prejudiced and ignorant is relevant, and IS highly uncivil.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Bagnu

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

Being civil by the uncivilized.. you jest..

But then again  being civilized is just a farce anyway. 

[JUSTUS Palianta]

Bagnu this forum has always been uncivil that's why so many people don't even post.  If the Grammar Nazi's don't get you the Pack Of Vultures descend on you and beat you with sticks for having your own opinion.  I would not loose any sleep over it, i found the solution is staying quiet.  Don't worry about other people and enjoy your SL.

Although i do kinda feel sorry for the people who come to the forum thinking its a good place to ask for help.  Maybe this whole issue does need addressing.  How is a  new person supposed to understand the politics of the forum.  

Edited August 3, 2020 by JUSTUS Palianta
afterthought

[Orwar]

27 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

The truth of this statement is irrelevant in this thread. Writing prejudiced and ignorant is relevant, and IS highly uncivil.

   Oh no, did you just disagree with me, and even call me 'uncivil' - how uncivil of you! 

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

The lack of civility in this thread is a abundantly obvious..

Y'all are just a bunch of mongrels!!!

[Tari Landar]

54 minutes ago, JUSTUS Palianta said:

How is a  new person supposed to understand the politics of the forum.  

The same way everyone else does, by participating. If they make a faux pas, they own it, make whatever right they feel needs to be made right, and move right along.

New folks come here all the time. Hell, I send them here all the time, lol. The vast majority don't have any problem figuring things out. Those that do, even if they take a bit, eventually seem to get it. Most of the people that have the biggest problems here are people that make no effort to figure out A-what the problem is, B-if, or how, they themselves contribute(d) to it, C--how to remedy it. I've seen a lot of issues on theses forums over the years, and all their former incarnations. I've been reading them since 2005, at least, and I'm always surprised when people say only negative things about them. Most issues DO eventually get resolved, honestly. It's as if people are only LOOKING for that, so it's all they find. There's a pretty vast wealth of posts and knowledge and experience and laughter, and...well, you get my drift, on these forums. Even if, ok, when, there is negativity, the positivity (why is that not a word mr spellcheck?) far outweighs it, you just have to be open to finding it. 

The same goes for new folks and figuring out the politics, as it were (I don't know that's the term I'd use, but I get the gist of what you're asking, so I'm rollin with it), you figure it out by sticking around long enough, even if you don't personally participate to either ask/post, or read, enough. That's how everything works, even out there in the scary world though. You learn how things work, and you can either challenge that knowledge, or accept it. Either way you go, it might go well, it might not, but giving up on the idea that it can go well certainly seems far less intriguing to me, and almost makes one's presence in such a negative atmosphere rather questionable. But that's a convo for another topic and another day, I think.

TLDR; They learn, like we, humans, do everywhere  

Edited August 3, 2020 by Tari Landar
forgot a ly

[Elora Lunasea]

15 hours ago, Bagnu said:

I have honestly have never experienced anything inworld  as truly uncivil as what I have seen here in the forums. 

Oh gurl. You should have experienced it years ago. It was brutal at times.

The current version we're using is much tamer. More rules and regulations and the mods pay closer attention than they used to.

[AdminGirl]

This is a general statement, not directed at anybody. Civility is very subjective. And the fact is, we're all hyprocrites. When we think someone's being uncivil to us, we're often focussed on the other person and rarely looking back at ourselves to see what we could have done better. When we say something and someone gets upset, oh well they're being too sensitive and shouldn't have been offended. But when they say something and we get upset, it's a different story. They're so uncivil. It needs to go both ways. We have so many different personalities and cultures coming together. Yeh we talk based on who we are and what we know, but the other part is learning about others and learning how to get along with people even if they might not be like us or think the way we do.

[AdminGirl]

9 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

 

So, who is not being civil or polite? Is it the one who wants to talk about pineapples despite the small clubhouse not liking it, while knowing the greater groups likely wouldn't mind... or is it the clubhouse who doesn't want to hear about pineapples anymore and insists the pineapple lover should stop talking?

If there is a section in the forum for fruits, then the pineapple talk would be better there rather than in the poultry section.

And if the mentions border on advertising and is against TOS that's also worth considering.

Reminders of the abovementioned to the pineaple enthusiast, IMO should be expressed civilly. But the reminding itself isn't uncivil.

[Dafadilia Wayfarer]

47 minutes ago, AdminGirl said:

This is a general statement, not directed at anybody. Civility is very subjective. And the fact is, we're all hyprocrites. When we think someone's being uncivil to us, we're often focussed on the other person and rarely looking back at ourselves to see what we could have done better. When we say something and someone gets upset, oh well they're being too sensitive and shouldn't have been offended. But when they say something and we get upset, it's a different story. They're so uncivil. It needs to go both ways. We have so many different personalities and cultures coming together. Yeh we talk based on who we are and what we know, but the other part is learning about others and learning how to get along with people even if they might not be like us or think the way we do.

This was so beautifully and may I say perfectly said! No one is perfect. The one incredibly blessed and beautiful part about these forums is the diversity of culture that comes together. We all have something to contribute in some way or other. Even if it is just to be an observer or reader of thoughts, feelings and opinions being expressed here.

To the OP: For the most part no one here is uncivil. Being blunt is different than not being civil.

It's funny how hard it can be to admit something about ourselves that may ruffle our own feathers. I will admit something about me though. There have been times in the past I've taken something personally from what is said here. It will upset me. I'm not perfect. I try to live my life humbly, but goodness I know I'm not perfect. Far...far from it! When I find myself taking things a bit too seriously here, I will take a break from the forums. I come back and reread what was said with new perspective that way. One thing I will never allow myself do is feed into toxicity. I will pull myself out of a conversation if it takes that turn for my own well being. Did I find some of the things you've said insulting since I'm disabled in rl? Yes, I have. I know it is best to just let it go though.  Why I force myself to do these things is because I'm very imperfect and human. I just know when enough is enough for me personally.

I wouldn't call the people here uncivil, just bluntly honest. There is a huge difference. I will take their truthful bluntness any day over accusations and insults. This is a generalized statement by the way. My own perspective.

Sometimes you have to learn to let things go and it seems you have a really hard time doing that.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Dafadilia
My brain and fingers didn't want to communicate correctly while typing this out so corrections were needed.

[Mollymews]

i find that the forums are quite good these days.  The moderators have loosened their grip a bit over recent times and have allowed topics that in previous times would not have been allowed and shut down

which is a good thing overall as I think it reflects the maturity of the current forum participatory readership. The forum participants as a whole behave quite well I find. Sure sometimes we might in a down moment go off on a bit of a rant at Linden or each other, but compared to the total volume of posts then this is quite rare, and quite often when it does then the ranter will come back and apologise for what they said in the down moment

so altogether I find these forums today to be way more civilised than they have been in the past, even when a contentious topic is being discussed and debated robustly. Which I think is to the credit of the moderators and the forum participants