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I have honestly have never experienced anything inworld  as truly uncivil as what I have seen here in the forums. 

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I think a lot really has to do with people still being cooped up for so long and so much change happening this summer..   Even a lot of introverts are like, C'mon! Let me outta here!! \o/

God you people need thicker skins. It is cartoon avatars, get over it.

Y'know...

some folks with a rare talent named "capacity of discernment" might have taken just a tiny moment of reflection to sit back and review the kind of responses they did get, let it sink in and perhaps get a clue or two from it. Like taking a little break from their usual pattern of behaviour, putting more focus on other things like touching up their appearance or catering to their customers. Let everyone cool down a bit. Quit trying to be in the spotlight of attention constantly, by starting thread after thread of the most generic content. 

That, for my liking, would have been a kind of civil behaviour.

But of course, one can also happily keep doing the same s*** as before, blame everyone else of bad attitude and fool responses while dimmishing one's own repuation of not acting ll-intentioned.

And what the heck do others expect? It's the same bunch of posters, a good deal of them eagerly ripping each others' throats out not too long ago, the same miserable RL impacts, if not more intense than before. What kind of magic should have suddenly changed the overall atmosphere? 

Edited by Lillith Hapmouche
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I think a lot really has to do with people still being cooped up for so long and so much change happening this summer..

 

Even a lot of introverts are like, C'mon! Let me outta here!! \o/

coronavirus-people-travel-jokes-fb6-png_

 

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5 hours ago, Bagnu said:

I have honestly have never experienced anything inworld  as truly uncivil as what I have seen here in the forums. 

I suspect the forums would be much more civil if one had to post from inworld while within chatting distance of the one being disagreed with.😎

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5 hours ago, Bagnu said:

I have honestly have never experienced anything inworld  as truly uncivil as what I have seen here in the forums. 

Yes, it can be, at times and it's quite over-dramatic and not needed when we know darn well we can speak to one another inworld just fine and should do the same here on the forums without name-calling.

However, I have not been uncivil to you.

I simply asked if you could stop saying that you are with disabled people as your clients when you admitted not a single one of your clients said they were disabled.

I'm trying to tell you that disabled people are just like anyone else.  I had a relationship with a man in a wheelchair and we had sex.  You believe in some myth that your job and yourself are some kind of savior to disabled people and it's hurtful to say such a thing especially when you said none of your clients ever said they were disabled.  The man I was dating was such a hunk, most women fell for him.  He looked like Jim Morrison.  He was absolutely gorgeous and fun and one of the most giving people I've ever known, and he had sex just fine.  

But, you don't seem to get what I'm saying to you, Bagnu.  You live in a vacuum based upon nothing.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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This place, much like the rest of the world (virtual and otherwise) CAN lack civility. However, you're forgetting that street goes a multitude of directions. It's basically a giant bowl of spaghetti. Each time you point your finger at someone else for being uncivil, odds are good a whole bunch are pointing back at you (both those you possess without even realizing, and those of others).

This place can also be a great comfort, a wonder of merriment, a place to share and receive a few laughs, a place to share, and most importantly, a place to learn. You can learn all sorts of things here, make new friends,

but keep the old..one is silver..and the other gold....

Veered off track there a bit, let me hop back on. You really can learn all kinds of things, new skills, about the world around you, fashion if that's your thing, about other people and their cultures, find some new movies or music to watch/listen to. I mean the things you can learn here in the forums is damn near limitless, if you put in the effort to do so. It really is, and if you stick around long enough to stop making the same patterns here, you'll see it. 

Anyone that comes here and says they have nothing to learn, or nothing to gain from the forums, is most likely not going to ever feel welcome here, or anything remotely like this place. That person would also likely struggle with being in sl in general, and perhaps even with people in rl. (that's not me making judgments, it's just something that is). If you look at everything you see and read here as bad, because some things didn't go your way, all you'll ever have is a negative impression and you'll be blocking your own self from ever finding anything better to see, know, enjoy, whatever. Sometimes things going on in our lives outside of here can also have an impact on things we experience here too. I take breaks frequently for that very reason. I also leave topics when they get too heated for my liking, for the same reason. 

That's also what will happen if you continue making posts like this, which drag topics from one thread, ones that are already negative, and try to make them into new threads. It's just going to carry the negativity from one place to another, and you're going to continue to perpetuate the negative impressions people have of you, why you're here, etc...You'll only reiterate the negative things people have said, in fact, you'll solidify the truth in them, and more often than not, those that once thought more highly of you will slowly begin to think less and less. It's happened numerous times here and will continue to do so. That's also where my infamous comment stems from. Being infamous is rarely ever a positive thing, and it sticks with you. Also, no matter how many times someone says they don't mind being infamous, the entire world will know they're lying about that (assuming they're not an actual narcissist), it won't feel good and we all know it, because it only carries negative connotation.

Reputations do stick with you, but you can change them if you so wish. I have a rep for turning what could be a few sentences into an entire novel of drivel. There was a time when I wanted to change that, but I eventually got over it (mostly because I realized it's ingrained in my very nature to not be concise, and it doesn't bother me), people eventually realized they can either skip my novels or not, and we're all living in that world now. At one point, many moons ago, in a distance too far off to remember...kidding, but, really, for a while it carried a more negative effect, and it still does in the eyes of some. I do think most eventually realized that it's a take it or leave it kind of deal and it doesn't have to be negative (whether they agree with me, read my posts, or not) it just has to be. 

If you want to change what you;re perceiving as people being uncivil (sometimes it is, sometimes I think its just your perception), you can always change how you participate in it and see if that has any effect. This thread, for example, isn't likely to garner you much positive results, and it is more likely to come across as if that wasn't the intended purpose. You can also change the company with which you keep, it helps to understand the backgrounds of those pretending to support you (that's a disadvantage of being newer around somewhere, but you'll eventually get there). Sometimes those folks are only making things worse for you by agreeing that the world is as you see it, you just might not realize they're doing so until you've been here a while. 

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36 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

This place, much like the rest of the world (virtual and otherwise) CAN lack civility

But it doesn't have to be that way. People shouldn't need thick skins, which is just armour for protection. People can change. We can become better, by just being made aware that it's not ok to be uncivil. It's not acceptable. I know it works, because as I have mentioned before, my workplace changed from a very toxic environment to one where everyone is polite - just because people were constantly reminded about our core value - respect. And here is the thing, everyone prefers it. People are generally kind, but have to be forced to build up an armour, and be on the defensive. If someone is rude it's because they're trying to protect themselves - and so it goes. It triggered somenthing, and so we react. Next time you roll your eyes back and start typing a rude response - stop and think why did that trigger me? 

Edit: Sorry Tari, this isn't really aimed at your post, just the whole thread really. I didn't read your whole post. I will now though

Edited by Rya Nitely
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8 hours ago, Bagnu said:

I have honestly have never experienced anything inworld  as truly uncivil as what I have seen here in the forums. 

Civility is an idea and ideas are processed differently  by each individual according to the persons psychological background.

All you have to do regardless if it's RL / SL / Forums or whatever, is find those people who are like minded with you and simply ignore those who are stubbornly incompatible.

Who is right / who is wrong is hypothetical and at the end of the day it doesn't really matter because you don't know anyone, chances are you will never meet anyone and practically speaking you don't get any money from that either.

So make sure you enjoy your gaming whatever that is and use the forums/chat as a tool to discover those people who fit you. That is the beauty of Democracy.

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CIVILITY

   formal politeness and courtesy in behavior or speech.
    "I hope we can treat each other with civility and respect"
   Synonyms:
    courtesy · courteousness · politeness · good manners · mannerliness · gentlemanliness · chivalry · gallantry · graciousness · consideration · respect · gentility · urbanity · cordiality · geniality · pleasantness · affability · politesse · couth · comity
~~~~~~~~~~
Civility is often a matter of perspective and who holds (or believes they hold) the power.

Let's say I just really liked pineapples and felt the need to talk about them a lot. Maybe I'm a pineapple grower and my gardening activities are central to my identity.
I enter a group that is somewhat closed (a little clubhouse in many respects, although many more are part of the group who are not as visible), plus this clubhouse and the less visible members who surround them are also part of a larger community.
The little clubhouse gets tired of me talking about pineapples and asks me to stop -- it's difficult to ascertain if they're just tired of the repetition or if they believe pineapples are bad. But it's difficult for me to stop because pineapples are so much a part of my identity, plus pineapples topics are part of the larger groups the small clubhouse belongs to, and I know many of these others don't really mind if I talk of pineapples.

So, who is not being civil or polite? Is it the one who wants to talk about pineapples despite the small clubhouse not liking it, while knowing the greater groups likely wouldn't mind... or is it the clubhouse who doesn't want to hear about pineapples anymore and insists the pineapple lover should stop talking?

I'm sure answers will differ according to who one believes should have the most power.

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2 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

People can change. We can become better, by just being made aware that it's not ok to be uncivil. It's not acceptable. I know it works, because as I have mentioned before, my workplace changed from a very toxic environment to one where everyone is polite - just because people were constantly reminded about our core value - respect. And here is the thing, everyone prefers it. People are generally kind, but have to be forced to build up an armour, and be on the defensive.

That's great...that your workplace could change from such a toxic environment to a civil, respectful one. What kind of training occurred at your workplace that facilitated this change?  How were they "reminded"?

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9 hours ago, Bagnu said:

I have honestly have never experienced anything inworld  as truly uncivil as what I have seen here in the forums. 

To be expected actually.  Inworld, most of us hang out with folks that we would call friends, or at least friendly acquaintances (if we hang out with folks at all).  Whereas here in the forums, it is a mix of folks, all with different thoughts/opinions on various topics.  Inworld, if people weren't nice to you all the time (or most of the time), you probably wouldn't keep hanging around them. You don't get that option here in the forums.  Whether inworld or here in the forums, many people use the anonymity to be more blunt and abrasive than they might be in RL.  That is typical of the internet in general.

Then again, what some feel is uncivil or rough behavior here is just looked at by others as not sugar coating things. The concept of getting tougher skin is not saying that everyone must accept abrasive behavior, it is saying that some folks are truly way too sensitive.  Some folks really do take every disagreement as a personal assault against them.  The ones that have never learned how to argue without taking it personal are usually the ones that people are referring to when they say 'grow a thicker skin'.

What is considered polite to some is thought of as rough to others and coddling to still other folks. It is a flowing spectrum with no definitive definition.

 

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36 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

How were they "reminded"?

In every meeting we are reminded, on posters, mindfulness workshops, and individual councelling by management and HR. The mindfulness workshops, in particular, helped, and people I never got along with joined the mindfulness group, and they calmed down. It indicated to me that these people didn't like the situation either. People behave in certain ways for a reason. It's internal and they take it out on the world around them. Once this is realised then change is possible, not before.

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“A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot.”

-Robert Anson Heinlein

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3 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Yes, it can be, at times and it's quite over-dramatic and not needed when we know darn well we can speak to one another inworld just fine and should do the same here on the forums without name-calling.

However, I have not been uncivil to you.

I simply asked if you could stop saying that you are with disabled people as your clients when you admitted not a single one of your clients said they were disabled.

I'm trying to tell you that disabled people are just like anyone else.  I had a relationship with a man in a wheelchair and we had sex.  You believe in some myth that your job and yourself are some kind of savior to disabled people and it's hurtful to say such a thing especially when you said none of your clients ever said they were disabled.  The man I was dating was such a hunk, most women fell for him.  He looked like Jim Morrison.  He was absolutely gorgeous and fun and one of the most giving people I've ever known, and he had sex just fine.  

I never said you have been uncivil to me. And yes I am listening. I do know disabled people in RL, and of course we are all people. We all have different limitations, and we work around them. A disability is just a limitation which can be worked around. I think of Jeff Healy and Ray Charles. 

But saying I live in a vacuum based upon nothing is not within my perception of civility.

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1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Let's say I just really liked pineapples and felt the need to talk about them a lot. Maybe I'm a pineapple grower and my gardening activities are central to my identity.

Well fact is if someone talks all the time about pineapples it does make them a very boring person to be with but anyway that's real life example where in some cases someone might think that they can't avoid some people, there's a difference in SL / forums / internet because someone can simply click the ignore button once they realize that they don't like a person and never see that persons posts again.

Actually it is unhealthy and self-torture when a person knows that doesn't like at all another person but keep on reading what that person is saying (and a bit stalkerish behavior), using the ignore button is the most civilized thing to do.

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10 hours ago, Bagnu said:

I have honestly have never experienced anything inworld  as truly uncivil as what I have seen here in the forums. 

I politely, yet highly disagree, ma'am. Why do I disagree? I have seen far more uncivility in-world, especially in some so-called Welcome Areas and certain role-play sims. In my humble opinion.  I apologize for not taking the time to back up my personal impressions with hard scientific data.

Edited by Arduenn Schwartzman
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The world is an uncivilized place.  It is full of barbaric people who are full of thier own egos and morals and ethics and standards. 

Humans are by basic nature uncivilized.. barbarians and vainful and egotistical  individuals. They just like to try and deceive themselves and others into believing they are something better. 

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Civility and tolerance go pretty much hand in hand. Agree to disagree. Your hate of something/someone probably won't change someone else's opinion  on that no matter how much you spout off. Learning to accept people have different opinions on certain subjects and accepting that is tolerance and civility. Once the discussion devolves into insults, name calling etc...then it only shows that you're neither tolerant nor civil

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19 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

I never said you have been uncivil to me. And yes I am listening. I do know disabled people in RL, and of course we are all people. We all have different limitations, and we work around them. A disability is just a limitation which can be worked around. I think of Jeff Healy and Ray Charles. 

But saying I live in a vacuum based upon nothing is not within my perception of civility.

Anyone who loves Jeff's music and his role he played as himself in Road House, can't be all bad. 

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Just now, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

I politely, yet highly disagree, ma'am. Why do I disagree? I have seen far more uncivility in-world, especially some so-called Welcome Areas and certain role-play sims. In my humble opinion.  I apologize for not taking the time to back up my personal impressions with hard scientific data.

I tend to stay in areas where people have the same interests as myself, so that is likely why I haven't seen much of this inworld. I have experienced uncivilty there as well though. Disagreeing is not uncivil. A debate is a way of searching for the truth!!!

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