Lack of Civiity

[Panteleeva]

5 hours ago, Racheal Rexen said:

Yes the current forums is a cake walk to old forms, I actually had a good friend that got banned from SL for drunk posting here

I wonder what he posted then  🤣

[kali Wylder]

So, I've been away in RL for a bit and it's nice to know I can always come back and see threads like this letting me know that nothing much has changed. I agree with those that mentioned that this forum is quite docile compared to the old forums of ten years ago or so.  But what with there being people(real honest to goodness human beings with feelings and opinions and thoughts) behind the words, there will always be feelings and opinions and thoughts here that not all share.  That's the wonder of human beings, each one has their own perception and when they put it into words for others to see - some will see something they identify with and some won't.  If we were all the same, we wouldn't have much to say to each other.

[Lillith Hapmouche]

Who? What? Huh?

Reminds me... not too long ago, I opened a thread with 6 replies or so. And each and every "post" was an ignore placeholder 😄😎

[Arielle Popstar]

20 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Of course this effort can be good or bad, depending on the motivation and skill of the people attempting to guide the group in a certain direction.

I believe it is "attempting to guide the group" where civility starts to go sideways. Consider we are all fully autonomous human beings with our own experiences, viewpoints and opinions. Those opinions may change when a rational argument is posted for others to consider but most will dig in their heels when they start to feel controlled through guilt and manipulation that they "should" have a particular viewpoint or they will be considered bad. This is especially true when the one trying to guide/control the group is not directly involved and is acting as a facilitator of a therapy group. Smacks of codependency.

[Seicher Rae]

2 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Who? What? Huh?

Reminds me... not too long ago, I opened a thread with 6 replies or so. And each and every "post" was an ignore placeholder 😄😎

I am not fond of posts that just quote and say ^^^ this, but... this ^^^ .

[Luna Bliss]

41 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

21 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Of course this effort can be good or bad, depending on the motivation and skill of the people attempting to guide the group in a certain direction.

I believe it is "attempting to guide the group" where civility starts to go sideways. Consider we are all fully autonomous human beings with our own experiences, viewpoints and opinions. Those opinions may change when a rational argument is posted for others to consider but most will dig in their heels when they start to feel controlled through guilt and manipulation that they "should" have a particular viewpoint or they will be considered bad. This is especially true when the one trying to guide/control the group is not directly involved and is acting as a facilitator of a therapy group. Smacks of codependency.

Well like I said, people can have the wrong motivation (be codependent, seeking only control),  but we all tend do this in one way or another -- attempt to guide others or the group as a whole in an attempt to get them to see our viewpoint. The only sane solution is to drop it if efforts are in vain, I imagine, and best to guide with love and not the "guilt and manipulation" you speak of.

From my earliest years I've never accepted the strong having power over the weak. When I see a power imbalance, and the more powerful faction abusing the weaker one, it sickens my stomach. I have a strong mother instinct that seeks to protect the weaker among us. How this could be seen as negative I'll never understand.
Since you like conservatives so much, a conservative actually said this, Arielle, so perhaps you should take note -- "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing".

[Amina Sopwith]

On 8/3/2020 at 8:47 AM, Bagnu said:

I have honestly have never experienced anything inworld  as truly uncivil as what I have seen here in the forums. 

I have. Very very much so. I recall a recent thread about some abuse you and a friend experienced inworld from clients; if the forums are worse than what I imagined that to be like, then I'm very surprised indeed. It certainly wasn't as bad as a particularly delightful wall of text that was directed at me some time ago, but I think that was before you joined us. 

Civility can be hard to define. There's the obvious stuff, like personal insults and name calling, and I think we can mostly agree on that. Sometimes it requires a bit of a judgement call. Sometimes there are things that don't defy the very letter of the forum law, but perhaps are against its spirit, or at least against the kind of vibe that the community wishes to create and preserve. It might even be necessary; perhaps one is trying to raise awareness of a very important issue. But if there's been a poor response, it's certainly worth questioning whether it's worth it and what one hopes to gain against what cost. That would be civil, I'd say. 

We might be at a bit of a disadvantage in this particular place because it's relatively small and slow-moving, so our characters and actions probably reverberate through it much more than they would in a larger, better-known one.  

Honestly, I'm always surprised when people say these forums are an awful place to be. I think they're pretty sanitised (and that's not a criticism) and quite pleasant overall.

 

 

[Seicher Rae]

On 8/3/2020 at 3:47 AM, Bagnu said:

I have honestly have never experienced anything inworld  as truly uncivil as what I have seen here in the forums. 

Back to the OP... (yeah, I know: concept).  I'm just going to weigh in with some more "me too" and "this^^^" comments.

This forum is a lot tamer than the one 10 years ago. Then, it either had ZERO moderators... which made things really slimy as you might imagine, or then somebody at LL would get a bug up their collective butts and just stupidly, stupidly over moderate, which I know in at least several cases made things worse than NO moderation. However, even though this Forum is moderated, and the moderation is a bit more reliable, I have to say that it still isn't even. Total flame wars are allowed to go on. Or not. People get hand slapped for showing a nipple on a photo thread... or not. Purposefully misspell an outlawed expletive and get suspended for a day or two... or not. 

I never used to see the screaming "in crowd" that everyone has ALWAYS griped about. Ten years ago, there was always complaints about the "elite" (which went by several names). I never saw it. I did see one or two groups of people who normally agreed with each other. In *this* forum? I see it. I've probably been accused of being in the so-called "elite" ten years ago and in this version. That's really hilarious. Where I saw the loud, toe-the-line or be shouted down bunch was when the more politically charged threads came out. Talk about bullies! Yeesh.

Also, when you say "the forums" you have to be more specific. The General Discussion sub-forum has *always* been where you get dumpster fires. It isn't the only place. Some of the photo sub-forums have been quite nasty. I left one in a flounce because of that. I watched a "forum darling" get skewered in another photo thread. As someone who basically hates people, none of this is surprising. However, there are quiet and saner places (also a lot of dead boring places) in the overall Forum. You can self-regulate your level of uncivil discourse by choosing where you hang out and using the ignore tools.

The same inworld. Probably most of us self-regulate to be in areas where we feel the most comfortable, civil or otherwise. So if you hang out in secure fluffy land inworld your experience there is going to be much calmer than putting on the breathing apparatus and jumping into the land of smoke and flames of the GD subforum.

I am not posting nearly as much as I was several months ago, and I suppose some of it has to do with the lack of civility in the forums. It was the eye-opening disappointment in people I thought I knew and the disgust in their words and actions that pushed me out. The vocal few, who think They, Alone have The Truth. See my sigline for what I think about that.

Also, in the GD, and it has always been thus: Come in with a really stupid comment and people are going to let you know it. Routinely annoy a large section of the regular Forumites with constantly doing XYZ and they are going to let you know. Some gently, some with a bat wrapped in barbed wire. I've seen people get batted for no good reason, and I really hate blame the victim mentality, but there is usually a degree of lack of self responsibility if someone is getting nothing but rude. Not always. There are legit crazy people out there who find a person to pick on, take down, bully for no good reason. Most of the time though... yeah, self-reflection might be in order.

[Luna Bliss]

12 hours ago, Nick0678 said:

On 8/4/2020 at 10:29 AM, Luna Bliss said:

I would say that some people feel more of a responsibility to the group than you do, and so feel it their duty to help the entire group function better. personality is.

People act differently and you probably know by now that i am an ENTJ so the feeling part when it comes to such things as belonging to groups etc doesn't really interest me.

I'm just trying to understand the different ways people experience groups and want to experience being a part (or not) of them -- doesn't have anything to do with feelings really.

But I won't keep making an example of you per your request, as you want to keep it light.  It's just so difficult as I see you as a great example of someone who is more separate from groups yet having great moral standards which you adhere to. I think perhaps we could call this 'conservative' in a very positive sense, unlike the conservatives we have in the US today. I think that's why I want to focus on you, because I'd like to see this return to the US.  But I will stop, I promise...   

Edited August 5, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Nick0678]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

I'd like to see this return to the US.  But I will stop, I promise... 

Seriously it never bothered me because your way of communicating to me whatever curiosity you had towards me was careful and not judgemental. (and i am a bit thick skinned)

Regarding being conservative i knew you would notice that but Luna remember i am not American and we also both had different real life experiences. Actually you will also notice stuff that are Socialistic and parts of the ideology of Anarchy (like not belonging to any groups etc). It seems hard to combine them but it really isn't and all ideologies have good things to offer.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

@Seicher Rae

I wanted to like.. laugh.. and  feel sad at this post.. at the same time.. we need multiple  reactions....

It's so uncivilized that we can only react once to a post. People are not just one emotiona at a time.. we have  lots of different ones all the time. And sometimes the come out unfiltered.. which is not a bad thing really. 

Having to filter and regulate and control and walk on eggshells all the time is though.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Drakonadrgora Darkfold

[BelindaN]

I don't have the benefit of knowing what the forums were like beyond a couple of years back, but I do know that the ambience here is on a downward spiral, and has been like that for a while.

It should be a fun place to hang out, but when confrontations erode that appeal, people walk away, and that's happening right now.

[Silent Mistwalker]

44 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

If that was done 90% of the forums would have  90% of everyone here on ignore..  and that makes for a very boring and dull world. 

Maybe in your world but not in mine. Less stress means I'll live longer.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

1 minute ago, BelindaN said:

I don't have the benefit of knowing what the forums were like beyond a couple of years back, but I do know that the ambience here is on a downward spiral, and has been like that for a while.

It should be a fun place to hang out, but when confrontations erode that appeal, people walk away, and that's happening right now.

Times change.. people change.. places change.. nothing stays the same forever and never can nor should they ever. 

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

Just now, Silent Mistwalker said:

Maybe in your world but not in mine. Less stress means I'll live longer.

Or live shorter.. stress challenges the body and mind and makes it stronger not weaker. 

I had a family member in rl who believed like you.. they died because of a failing immune system because of it

Always trying to live the clean stress free life..

The human body and mind needs to be pushed at times to the uncomfortable places. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

6 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

Or live shorter.. stress challenges the body and mind and makes it stronger not weaker. 

I had a family member in rl who believed like you.. they died because of a failing immune system because of it

Always trying to live the clean stress free life..

The human body and mind needs to be pushed at times to the uncomfortable places. 

In my case, stress is deadly. I'd rather not have my heart burst because someone decided they needed to keep pushing.

I may not have many years left in this life but I intend to live as long as I can. 

Or, if you prefer, you can argue with my physicians.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

There is always exceptions to everything. Doing what a qualified doctor says is far more important than what anyone else ever says.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

On 8/3/2020 at 7:05 AM, Ziggy Starsmith said:

God you people need thicker skins. It is cartoon avatars, get over it.

 Thinking like that in your mind justifies mean spirited interactions because as you say... we are just cartoons..  I am not a cartoon, I am a human with emotions and feelings and just because I am posting using my avatars name in the forum, that does NOT make me just a cartoon.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

On 8/3/2020 at 3:47 AM, Bagnu said:

I have honestly have never experienced anything inworld  as truly uncivil as what I have seen here in the forums. 

I do not think anyone has been uncivil to you. 

[Amina Sopwith]

46 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said:

I do not think anyone has been uncivil to you. 

I think a couple of people were a bit, but there was a definite context. They had been insulted first and more so. Unintentionally, I'm sure, and perhaps in such a way that might seem "civil", but that just demonstrates why being "civil" doesn't always mean you're in the right or don't deserve an angry response. Scylla mentioned the example of a white person being so patient and polite while they explain to a black person why they're wrong about their experiences of racism and shouldn't get so worked up, and that was a pretty good analogy.

"I refer you to the reply given in Arkell vs Pressdram" sounds civil, doesn't it? Doesn't it?

[Bagnu]

On 8/3/2020 at 10:11 PM, Dafadilia said:

I will take their truthful bluntness any day over accusations and insults. This is a generalized statement by the way. My own perspective.

I have received accusations and insults though. 

[Arielle Popstar]

8 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Since you like conservatives so much, a conservative actually said this, Arielle, so perhaps you should take note -- "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing".

Actually left of center according to one of those bias tests you like us to take but I guess not as far left as you, which seems to qualify me as being in that "nefarious" conservative group you don't accuse anyone of being in.

[Amanda Crisp]

I’m posting much less for two reasons;

01..Jerkazoids

02..RL politics and political activity being brought to the forums.

I find it easier not to engage than to get my blood pressure up over manners or someone collecting Virtue points:-)

SL is my escape from RL. I try to keep it that way.

Peace.

[AdminGirl]

11 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

 

This is why I said - be careful who you choose to have in your second life.  

Exactly this @Bagnu (Pearl), just because someone seems to be backing you at one point in time, doesn't mean they're a nice person, so be careful who you allow to get close to you. You just never know - a time may come when that behaviour gets directed to you. I've trusted the wrong people before and got burnt for it.

[FairreLilette]

12 hours ago, BelindaN said:

I don't have the benefit of knowing what the forums were like beyond a couple of years back, but I do know that the ambience here is on a downward spiral, and has been like that for a while.

It should be a fun place to hang out, but when confrontations erode that appeal, people walk away, and that's happening right now.

It's been said that we should never discuss religion and politics.  Something like that, though I don't know exactly how that bit of advice is worded.  There are people, mostly people who live in the public eye and have public lives who prefer not to discuss religion or politics as it could interfere with their career.  

It's the religion and politics mostly, though I'm glad we went through some things with the BLM threads because I learned a lot of things I did not know about people, politics aside.  

I've been jumped on just trying to tell current events as spoken of by the U.S. president.  I would like to be able to speak of current events once in a while because it effects us, without being jumped on.  It's just a current event for crying out loud.  lol  But, it's not fun just trying to talk about a current event.

As far as religion and politics, I want to stay out of it from now on.  People have their viewpoints and they are all over social media and they are endless.  I will read Twitter when Hell freezes over.  I could care less and I'm not just talking about Trump but I mean I am not going to read countless people's opinions on things.  It wastes too much of life and living.  But, I am glad we did discuss things here in regards to BLM.  I don't feel towards conservatives the way some others do on this forum.  I can very easily talk to both liberals and conservatives without blowing my top.  

But, speaking of fun as you wrote in your post, Belinda, there are fun threads here, too.

As far as someone who may have left I think I know who.  He may need a break for awhile as perhaps others.  It happens.  

Edited August 6, 2020 by FairreLilette