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Morality is different in SL vs RL


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33 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

They might not have realised what she meant (though they were bang up on what she said) but the point remains that whatever words she used or should have used, she very explicitly stated that her SL escorting carries moral merit because RL disability. It's really not hard to see why that's offensive to many people, especially since they have told her before. You aren't offended, that's grand, but several other people with disabilities were. And you don't get to invalidate or dismiss what they feel just because you feel differently. They are the people she was using to make a moral claim about her profession and they were justly offended and have the perfect right to say so.

Sure, all disabled people have a right to voice their opinion, even if they misinterpreted what Pearl meant.

But why couldn't escorting carry moral merit due to interacting with someone with RL disability, or for any needs a client has for that matter. We always feel we are doing a good thing (good vs bad being the crux of morality) if it helps others.  She wants to feel useful to people.  It's obvious she likes to feel helpful, useful, and so she's painting her activities in a positive light via this example.  She did not use the example to denigrate disabled people!  Once again, it would only be insulting to disabled individuals if she's assuming they're not capable of finding fulfillment on their own too, or assuming they never do....but she never said that.

I just don't think that you get that her behavior is frequently about affirming herself, she wants to feel like what she does is okay, because nearly the entire world says that escorting/prostitution is bad. It's sad that she's tried to receive some affirmation here but has gotten the opposite, although most likely not for the reasons she imagined!

Edited by Luna Bliss
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Wait....what in the actual hell? Do you know what narcissism actually is? How on earth does narcissism in sl, which is more likely to be a projection of the exact same trait in a person in rl (whether

I think you mean vanity instead of narcissism. Vanity can be a bad thing in RL but in SL it drives the economy. Lust is another vice.... drives the SL economy again.

This is probably the worst thing I have read on the forums for a long time.   Why on earth would having sexual fantasies with a disabled person in RL be considered immoral?  Why on earth imply that di

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1 hour ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

There is none and  never was or will be.  No one has any universal rights or privileges or entitlements ever.

Those are all human created concepts and ideologies. They do not exist outside of the human mind. 

Exactly.

 What is reality, equal rights, respect, morality etc are all ideas processed differently by each individual on the planet based on how their brain experiences and reacts on a variety of environmental influences during their lifespan. That is the main reason why organized societies created laws.

 

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2 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

This whole thread is becoming an ugly reflection of everything that is wrong with Western society.

  • An oppressed minority gets oppressed.
  • Those among that minority who are strong enough to speak up against it, do so.
  • Those people get told that their opinions are invalid. That the person who originally insulted them didn't mean it.
  • They basically get told to shut up.
  • The rest of the minority no longer has anyone to speak up for them.

I have lived most of my life belonging to one or more minorities, and I have always been one of those who are strong enough to speak up when I see a need for it.

Clearly I have just wasted the last forty-odd years of my life.

Congratulations, all of you. (This is not directed at literally all of you, but if you think it might be, it probably is).

Don't bother replying to me, I won't see it.

 

I am part of an "invisible" minority, and have experienced prejudice when I was younger. I had a person laugh at me while I was on the phone with my mother in gradeschool in the office because I was ill and needed to be picked up. Because I was speaking Hungarian!!! I can cite many, many more. This is just the first thing that came to my head.  So this time, I'm upset!!! Before anyone accuses anyone of being insenstive to others issues, perhaps they should ask what they have experienced in life!!!

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12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Sure, all disabled people have a right to voice their opinion, even if they misinterpreted what Pearl meant.

But why couldn't escorting carry moral merit due to interacting with someone with RL disability, or for any needs a client has for that matter. We always feel we are doing a good thing (good vs bad being the crux of morality) if it helps others.  She wants to feel useful to people.  It's obvious she likes to feel helpful, useful, and so she's painting her activities in a positive light via this example.  She did not use the example to denigrate disabled people!  Once again, it would only be insulting to disabled individuals if she's assuming they're not capable of finding fulfillment on their own too, or assuming they never do....but she never said that.

I just don't think that you get that her behavior is frequently about affirming herself, she wants to feel like what she does is okay.  because nearly the entire world says that escorting/prostitution is bad. It's sad that she's tried to receive some affirmation here but has gotten the opposite, although most likely not for the reasons she imagined!

She is an escort because it's her sexual fantasy; she's been open about that and her kink being about getting paid. That's totally, 100% brilliant. Lots of others do the same. In SL, there's no chance that she's being forced into it or turning to it in desperation. It's her thing, it's fine.

What's not fine is trying to use disabled people to claim an extra moral layer to it, that she's somehow doing it for their benefit, when it's nothing but her own fantasy and she wouldn't help them if they couldn't pay her. Again, wanting to be paid is fine, exploiting disabled people to claim some kind of superiority is not fine. That's exploitative and really offensive. You're not offended, fine, but several other people are and they've told her before. How can you say you're trying to help disabled people and then continually ignore them when they say you're hurting and offending them? 

And where on earth do you get the idea that she needs affirmation that what she does is ok? First of all, nobody on here has ever told her it isn't (though they wish she would occasionally talk about something else and not exploit vulnerable people). She's always telling us how much she enjoys it (that's great!) and she started this thread to tell us that she thinks it's morally fantastic (disabled people). She's also always telling us how fine she is with people not liking her for who she is. Frankly, I have no idea if I like her or not because I don't think we've ever actually seen the real Bagnu. We just get this endless one-dimensional character who's absolutely obsessed with being an edgelord escort and literally nothing else, even though she's told us it's a fantasy and she doesn't do this in RL. I wouldn't mind, some people are only their character in SL, but as I said, there's no exchange, no back and forth. You literally can't have a conversation with her. She's just now told me that she has no intention of ever switching from transmit to receive. We're not people to have discussions with to her. We are  nothing to her but her personal image projector and advertising billboard. You know she is absolutely secure in her profession (which is fine!) because she so explicitly does not give a toss what anyone says to her. She does not listen and she does not intend to listen. And that's why she's offended several disabled posters more than once by doing the same thing.

This is less than sod all to do with her profession and everything to do with her total lack of respect, whether or not you personally are offended by it.

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I may be an attention seeking narcissistic ***** to some, but I certainly understand from RL experience what prejudice is like!!! And I will never deliberately do that to anyone!!!

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48 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

They misinterpreted what she said, so it would be better if they took the time to actually understand her (not always easy, as it appears she is from, or grew up in, Hungary, and so isn't as well-versed in common English usage). 

I didn't misinterpret anything and you have been posting with me in these forums for many years. You know I will, and do, take words at their exact face value, not my own interpretation as such. We've had this round and round discussion about it before on more than one occasion, because of the very fact that I don't read into others' intentions, I read their words. Sometimes the intent doesn't match the face value of the words, and I totally get that. I am all for discussing stuff like that, coming to agreements, etc...In fact, I like those discussions, even when I don't agree. But, this isn't one of those kinds of discussions. 

57 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

She never said disabled people were inhuman

No, what she said, and has now admitted, was a bunch of bollocks about those with disabilities feeling more human because of her. The two are not the same, but the end result for those reading very well can be, and in this case, it was, is and is going to remain so.

 

58 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I am disabled too and was never bothered by what she said, and I've known others in SL who would not be

That's good, for you, and them  (really, not snark). There are loads of things people do and say in sl, well everywhere really, that don't offend me, but DO offend others. My not being offended, doesn't take away them being so. 

59 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

But a majority should not automatically override the minority anyway  --  so your argument is invalid.

So why does your not being offended, or others not being offended, override those who are? If you're to assume that those offended are actually in the minority (and even if they aren't, really). Why do you get to dictate that they ought not to be, and because you declare it so, it must be so.

I am offended, others are offended, that should be enough, but it's not because you are persisting with this need to white knight for someone that has now admitted it wasn't merely a misunderstanding, or misinterpretation, or even her simply expressing what her clients have told her, but rather her talking out of her rear. 

You're defending a defenseless position on this one. As much as I might commend you for defending others, in all kinds of situations (whether or not I always agree) on this one you are just flat out wrong. 

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1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

They misinterpreted what she said, so it would be better if they took the time to actually understand her (not always easy, as it appears she is from, or grew up in, Hungary, and so isn't as well-versed in common English usage). She never said disabled people were inhuman, so why take offense unless you persist in delusion.

I am disabled too and was never bothered by what she said, and I've known others in SL who would not be.  But a majority should not automatically override the minority anyway  --  so your argument is invalid.

No, no we didnt misinterpret her, she said   

14 hours ago, Bagnu said:

An example would be myself. I help people live out their sexual fantasies here, (and make them feel human if they are RL disabled).

Oh look.. there it is, in black and white. She helps RL disabled people feel human by letting them live out their sexual fantasies.  Which turned out to be a lie as hse stated later that she has never had a RL disabled client. 

Perhaps you need to take the time to actually read what she wrote with those rose tinted shades of yours. 

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3 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

I may be an attention seeking narcissistic ***** to some, but I certainly understand from RL experience what prejudice is like!!! And I will never deliberately do that to anyone!!!

Then switch off transmit, go to receive and try listening! 

Very occasionally I think we do get a glimpse of the real you. It's usually marked by an absence of "LOL" and fewer than 500 exclamation marks. I'm sure you actually are a nice person under it all but dear Bog, how are we supposed to find that out if all we get is ESCORT I'M TOO SEXY FOR MY SHIRT ESCORT on permanent transmit? 

It may be that you want to be only your sexual escort self in SL and on the forums, and that's fine. Really, it is. We could still get to know that side of you, I daresay we would enjoy it. But we can't do it if you're never on receive and don't interact with us as if we are actual people for real two-way discussion. You could have avoided this whole debacle if you'd just listened to what people said the last time you brought disability into it. 

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2 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

There is none and  never was or will be.  No one has any universal rights or privileges or entitlements ever.

Those are all human created concepts and ideologies. They do not exist outside of the human mind. 

Does anything exist outside of the human mind? Can you prove it? 

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This is what tends to happen when someone ends up realizing they're white knighting for someone that A-doesn't need it, B-doesn't want it, C-doesn't deserve it.

It turns to this really weird attempt at passive aggressive responses because they've no more fuel in their tanks for an actual discussion.

You know it's perfectly okay, pretty human even, to simply say "hmm, maybe I've been defending the wrong side on this one".

She already admitted it was a line of horse crap she was feeding us, and not actually a misinterpretation by readers. She, herself, has said that the line about those with disabilities was something she made up or thought she read on the internet, but not something she's ever actually experienced, so, a lie each and every time she's mentioned it. Why is so hard for you to back down off your position and admit that maybe you picked the wrong horse? 

I do it all the time when I realize I'm defending something that I shouldn't, usually because someone helps me see the error in my thinking, but not always. I see all kinds of people do it all the time, actually, even here on the forums. I have seen minds changed, I have seen opinions change. I have seen positions change. But you..nope, always steadfast, no matter how wrong it's been proven (by the very person you're attempting to defend) that you're in the wrong and defending the undefendable. 

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3 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

This is what tends to happen when someone ends up realizing they're white knighting for someone that A-doesn't need it, B-doesn't want it, C-doesn't deserve it.

It turns to this really weird attempt at passive aggressive responses because they've no more fuel in their tanks for an actual discussion.

You know it's perfectly okay, pretty human even, to simply say "hmm, maybe I've been defending the wrong side on this one".

I stand by everything I said.

When a mob gets going and can't see anything beyond their narrative, and the discussion starts going in circles though, it's time to leave. Not worth the energy.

I will await the next time you scapegoaters attack Bagnu.

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39 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Does anything exist outside of the human mind? Can you prove it? 

Cogito, Ergo Sum. That's all we can ever be sure about.

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10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I stand by everything I said.

As do I

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

When a mob gets going and can't see anything beyond their narrative, and the discussion starts going in circles though, it's time to leave. Not worth the energy.

I am not part of any mob. I speak for myself. I have no ulterior motives, or any desire to do so. I have stated something, and someone, is being offensive, and you continue to defend it as if I, because I was offended, am in the wrong. Sometimes I don't think you can see beyond your own narrative, or desire to white knight. It may not always be a bad thing, but in this case, it very much is. 

13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I will await the next time you scapegoaters attack Bagnu.

I'm not a scapegoater, but I do find it ironic you feel the NEED to "defend" her, while making the conscious CHOICE not to defend those she is offending. That's a weird position to put yourself in and a very weird place on the fence to sit. Careful where you try and balance yourself, lest you may find one of those posts up an orifice, wherein the feeling may not be nearly as pleasant as whatever high you're getting from this faux white knight role you're playing. It's a proverbial dangerous place, on which to rest your laurels, and other bits. 

You do talk an awful lot about defending people, and spend a lot of time on the forums coming to the defense of others, for someone making the choice to defend someone who has now admitted she was intentionally making things up and not speaking in truths. But, if if makes you feel better, have at it, lol. It'll just make any future defenses you come up with for others rather pointless, if not entirely devoid of meaning and good intent. 

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3 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

As do I

I am not part of any mob. I speak for myself. I have no ulterior motives, or any desire to do so. I have stated something, and someone, is being offensive, and you continue to defend it as if I, because I was offended, am in the wrong. Sometimes I don't think you can see beyond your own narrative, or desire to white knight. It may not always be a bad thing, but in this case, it very much is. 

I'm not a scapegoater, but I do find it ironic you feel the NEED to "defend" her, while making the conscious CHOICE not to defend those she is offending. That's a weird position to put yourself in and a very weird place on the fence to sit. Careful where you try and balance yourself, lest you may find one of those posts up an orifice, wherein the feeling may not be nearly as pleasant as whatever high you're getting from this faux white knight role you're playing. It's a proverbial dangerous place, on which to rest your laurels, and other bits. 

You do talk an awful lot about defending people, and spend a lot of time on the forums coming to the defense of others, for someone making the choice to defend someone who has now admitted she was intentionally making things up and not speaking in truths. But, if if makes you feel better, have at it, lol. It'll just make any future defenses you come up with for others rather pointless, if not entirely devoid of meaning and good intent. 

For those of us that know rather well what that poster's MO is .... Those "defenses" were already devoid of meaning and good intent.

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11 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

Considering it was pointed out in a previous thread when she said she provided a service for the disabled so they can feel human that saying that was offensive, and here she is doing it again...no I don't feel that she is just not getting it out right.  And no it doesn't feel "good" to do this sort of thing, cos it makes us look like really awful people who are just picking on "poor sweet Bagnu who has trouble expressing herself".  If you have people telling you "hey that's offensive when you say things like that", you have to expect negative reactions when you keep saying it.

And then there is this...

I thought making the sig line took out the need to promote her "services".  

You're just a BITTER person because you turned YOUR Second Life into a crappy lil business venture. You sit all sad and friendless on your "sky pad" doing your inventory. Leave the girl alone. She's ENJOYING her SL. You should give it a try. :)

OR...you could keep coming on the forums "championing" fake causes and being FAKE offended. It's a way to go hehehehehehehe

Edited by Jumpman Lane
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36 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

Cogito, Ergo Sum. That's all we can ever be sure about.

   First of all, that's not how to Latin. It's 'Cogito, ergo sum'. And only because it was the first word in your post should the C be capitalised. 

   Secondly, how is that 'all we can ever be sure about'? That may well be the most ignorant summary of our species' history of philosophy that I've ever seen on these forums.

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I'd like to apologize at this point, because I feel like I caused an avalanche. That was not my intent.
Neither was my Intent to silence any minorities by saying that I think Bagnu didn't mean it. Or silence anyones opinion, for that matter.
I thought about it, and I likely projected my own issues. As in, I feel often times missunderstood here, because I myself am often unable to express myself the right way, due to language barriers and other issues. And over time, that made me feel very unwelcome. I got hung up on that and missed the point. 

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1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

For those of us that know rather well what that poster's MO is .... Those "defenses" were already devoid of meaning and good intent.

Luna has a bad MO !!!!!!!!!!

 

crying baby 4 bad MO.jpg

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7 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

Thank you for this part.  The overzealous little wee willy actually hunted me down on another thread and carried on his little attention seeking rants there until I finally got bored and put his idiot tush on ignore.  Definitely childlike and narcissistic.

 

You don't know the half of it lmao!

Putting me on ignore is your BEST bet. I'm a hair shirt. I'm the mirror that exposes sad little people to their sad little selves hehehehehehe

Edited by Jumpman Lane
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1 hour ago, Bagnu said:

Cogito, Ergo Sum. That's all we can ever be sure about.

"I think, therefore I am" ....hmmmm...I'm not sure about that...lol

You know, in my meditation group they say 'thinking' is the problem...we believe our 'thinking' is us....we identify with it too much...and our true self is actualy deeper than that....so Descartes got it wrong with that little line...

Where's the cosmic @Chromal Brodsky....we need their opinion on it...

Edited by Luna Bliss
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13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Luna has a bad MO !!!!!!!!!!

 

crying baby 4 bad MO.jpg

What exactly is up with you today, Luna? I don't always agree with your points, but you do at least usually make some. 

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1 minute ago, Amina Sopwith said:

What exactly is up with you today, Luna? I don't always agree with your points, but you do at least usually make some. 

Luna won't make anymore points todayyyy   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

crying baby 5 moving.gif

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