Chroma Starlight Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said: There are no natural rights or universal rights. That is a human created fallacy. Plus using wiki as any sort of creditable research resource is laughable. Okay, so I'll put you in the "does not believe in Universal Human Rights" camp. That puts you in such lovely company, good luck with that. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Chromal Brodsky said: 13 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said: There are no natural rights or universal rights. That is a human created fallacy. Plus using wiki as any sort of creditable research resource is laughable. Okay, so I'll put you in the "does not believe in Universal Human Rights" camp. That puts you in such lovely company, good luck with that. No, you can believe Universal Human Rights are a good thing, but believe it's something we decided benefits the world as opposed to believing it's an edict from God. So, not a universal truth, but one humans decided as a worthy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakonadrgora Darkfold Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Chromal Brodsky said: Okay, so I'll put you in the "does not believe in Universal Human Rights" camp. That puts you in such lovely company, good luck with that. There is none and never was or will be. No one has any universal rights or privileges or entitlements ever. Those are all human created concepts and ideologies. They do not exist outside of the human mind. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said: No, you can believe Universal Human Rights are a good thing, but believe it's something we decided benefits the world as opposed to believing it's an edict from God. So, not a universal truth, but one humans decided as a worthy. So reality is the agreed on illusion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Bagnu said: It is simply my wording, and in no way was it meant to imply anyone is less human. I'm trying to express that SL allows those with disabilities to do things they can't in RL, and it can make them feel good. I want to help with that. So, if they cant.... get off in RL, how is doing it in SL helping them in RL? And if what you mean is they cant ... enjoy the company of another in RL, then all you are doing is helping a guy get off.. Neither thing is impossible for a disabled person to do. 1 hour ago, Bagnu said: None of my clients have ever admitted to having any sort of disability. I'm going on discussions I have had inworld, and what I have read on the internet. Ah, the truth finally comes out. You have never been with had a client who was disabled. See, you say you want to help out disabled people with their sexual issues, yet charge them for it. Someone who truly wants to help those in need would do so for free. As someone who is disabled, I find the notion that you think and have "been told" that disabled people cant enjoy sex in RL, absolutely BS. And very offensive. My wife and i are very happy with our sex life. Mind you, Corona has put a slight damper on things with the kids being home 24/7 but they can go out now. Disabled people live happy and full lives, despite what you and you friends may think. I had high hopes that you would change your ways and actually listen to what people, including disabled people, told you. But sadly you just keep digging your hole deeper with each thread and post you make. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, Chromal Brodsky said: 1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said: Why do you think there's so much inequality and a tendency to take away others' freedom in the world? I'm just wondering if you have an explanation for the sake of discussion -- I'm not challenging your assertion that "living in liberty and equality are a natural state of being". It's one of humanity's oldest pathologies, cultivated by a succession of cults that learned they could benefit from its effects and then proceeded to exploit humanity with this system again and again, and now once more they make their earnest push to enslave and debase everything with breathtaking cognitive dissonance and confusion of tongues/minds at a scale the western world has not witnessed recently. I could agree with you more if you said 'love' is a universal principle, but then we'd have to define just what 'love' is......not an easy task. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chroma Starlight Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said: The evidence absolutely surrounds me, and refutes your claim that freedom and equality are natural. So you cite a wiki page about moral frameworks that support freedom and equitability (the entire idea of "rights" as espoused by Epicurianism, Stoicism, Catholicism, etc) while insinuating that moral frameworks are arbitrary and perhaps in conflict with the things they promote? The irony is strong in you, Chromal. Well, you're absolutely at liberty to reach that conclusion and argue against the existence of your Universal Human Rights. But regardless of whether or not you believe in them, they are nevertheless real. You just cited some monotheistic religious cults, but they all stem from the same Roman Catholic Empire, itself founded upon an indefensible act of betrayal against the ancients and imperious tyranny against spiritual plurality. Until they renounce the Edict of Thessalonica, and institutionalized misogyny, their religious institutions cannot speak credibly nor be cited on matters pertaining to human rights, not with that looming over them still. The snark is strong in you, but it is not an adequate response to the merits. Edited August 2, 2020 by Chromal Brodsky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, Maitimo said: 29 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I mean really, she has said some things that are questionable, yes, but we don't need to crucify her do we? For someone who claims to takes such pride in their support of oppressed minorities, I am surprised how firmly you are in support of someone who insults them. I am not firmly in support of someone who insults them, because I don't believe she has insulted them. We disagree. You'd have to convince me she has indeed insulted all disabled individuals before I'd withdraw my support of her. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdminGirl Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I'm not sure you understand the dynamics of scapegoating, so not sure you'd recognize this when you see it. Yeh you're probably right and that's probably my cue to stop talking about it 😏 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chroma Starlight Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: No, you can believe Universal Human Rights are a good thing, but believe it's something we decided benefits the world as opposed to believing it's an edict from God. So, not a universal truth, but one humans decided as a worthy. Straw man fallacy, much? You're the first person here to suggest an edict from the cosmos was somehow involved. Did "God" call you up and tell you this, too? I thought we already established that morality and commandments and edicts chiselled on stone are the antithesis of Universal Human Rights, but here you go trying to conflate the two! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: 21 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: No, you can believe Universal Human Rights are a good thing, but believe it's something we decided benefits the world as opposed to believing it's an edict from God. So, not a universal truth, but one humans decided as a worthy. So reality is the agreed on illusion. No, I was voicing Drakon's position.....that one can believe Universal Rights are a good thing without believing they come from any other place than the consensus of humans. Chroma had insulted her by assuming Drakon did not believe in Human Rights by saying: "Okay, so I'll put you in the "does not believe in Universal Human Rights" camp. That puts you in such lovely company, good luck with that." Edited August 2, 2020 by Luna Bliss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: So reality is the agreed on illusion. What do you believe reality is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakonadrgora Darkfold Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 (edited) Egos egos everywhere...all is fair or unfair..nothing is what it seems.. only what you are told it means. Edited August 2, 2020 by Drakonadrgora Darkfold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chroma Starlight Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said: There is none and never was or will be. No one has any universal rights or privileges or entitlements ever. Those are all human created concepts and ideologies. They do not exist outside of the human mind. The above message gets Jeffrey Dahmer's stamp of approval. 🍽️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Chromal Brodsky said: 20 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: No, you can believe Universal Human Rights are a good thing, but believe it's something we decided benefits the world as opposed to believing it's an edict from God. So, not a universal truth, but one humans decided as a worthy. Straw man fallacy, much? You're the first person here to suggest an edict from the cosmos was somehow involved. Did "God" call you up and tell you this, too? I thought we already established that morality and commandments and edicts chiselled on stone are the antithesis of Universal Human Rights, but here you go trying to conflate the two! What is this "fabric" and "evidence" which envelops us that you speak of in your earlier post: "The evidence surrounds you, envelops you. It is the fabric of reality itself. Much has been written about these rights, which are abstract rather than mere material measurable things. You can learn more about natural rights and the essential Enlightenment Age philosophy upon which liberal democracy and the west are well-founded over there on wikipedia and elsewhere." Edited August 2, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said: Egos egos everywhere...all is fair or unfair..nothing is what it seems only what you are told it means. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakonadrgora Darkfold Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said: Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amina Sopwith Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 25 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I am not firmly in support of someone who insults them, because I don't believe she has insulted them. Several disabled posters have said that it was offensive to them and frankly they are the ones who get to decide. This isn't the first time. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 (edited) 45 minutes ago, AdminGirl said: What bothers me most about your position is your resistance to feedback. If I had told you that what you have said was offensive and hurtful to me, would you insist on continuing to say those things just because you don't think there's anything wrong with it, despite me telling you otherwise? No one can really speak for absolutely everyone in any given group of people, but if it has been made apparent something is offensive to at least some people within an audience, I don't know about you, but I personally would stop doing or saying that thing. I am disabled myself, thought not as severely as some, and Pearl said nothing about disabled people which offends me. I've also known other disabled people that would not be offended by her comments (I mentioned the person who couldn't walk in RL and actually said she "felt human again" being able to walk and fly in SL). So for Pearl to imagine other disabled people felt this way via sexual encounters they might not be able to have in RL does not seem offensive in the least. It would only be insulting if one assumed that all disabled people are unable to experience sex in SL or RL, and she never said that. You do have a point about taking your audience into consideration. I doubt that Pearl will be bringing up disabled issues again. However, I have no doubt that if Pearl continues on this forum that some people here will find yet another way to find fault with her. Edited August 2, 2020 by Luna Bliss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Kiyori Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 (edited) Ok, I'm stuggling to understand this. Normally. When someone from a group tells you that the thing you're saying or doing is hurtful to them. You stop right? People learnt since they where very young correct? It's the polite thing to do. So why is it. That when more then one disabled person all say "Hey stop that, It's hurtful and demeaning". ..People say we're being to harsh and rude. I've had it happen before. people are having it happen now. Am I missing something that says disabled people can't point out that no. This is harmful. This is wrong. Because otherwise this makes no sense to me. Edited August 2, 2020 by Robin Kiyori edited for clarity 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chroma Starlight Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: What is this "fabric" and "evidence" which envelops us that you speak of in your earlier post: "The evidence surrounds you, envelops you. It is the fabric of reality itself. The fabric is reality itself, the evidence is the natural world of which we are a part, just tiny moving pieces of the cosmos, exploring or singing the experience of material existence. How can two pieces of yourself not still be equally 'of you' just because their local perspectives are limited? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said: 46 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I am not firmly in support of someone who insults them, because I don't believe she has insulted them. Several disabled posters have said that it was offensive to them and frankly they are the ones who get to decide. This isn't the first time. They misinterpreted what she said, so it would be better if they took the time to actually understand her (not always easy, as it appears she is from, or grew up in, Hungary, and so isn't as well-versed in common English usage). She never said disabled people were inhuman, so why take offense unless you persist in delusion. I am disabled too and was never bothered by what she said, and I've known others in SL who would not be. But a majority should not automatically override the minority anyway -- so your argument is invalid. Edited August 2, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, Chromal Brodsky said: 25 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: What is this "fabric" and "evidence" which envelops us that you speak of in your earlier post: "The evidence surrounds you, envelops you. It is the fabric of reality itself. The fabric is reality itself, the evidence is the natural world of which we are a part, just tiny moving pieces of the cosmos, exploring or singing the experience of material existence. How can two pieces of yourself not still be equally 'of you' just because their local perspectives are limited? Earth to Cromal!!! lol But seriously, this does make more sense to me in terms of everyone having equal rights. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maitimo Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 This whole thread is becoming an ugly reflection of everything that is wrong with Western society. An oppressed minority gets oppressed. Those among that minority who are strong enough to speak up against it, do so. Those people get told that their opinions are invalid. That the person who originally insulted them didn't mean it. They basically get told to shut up. The rest of the minority no longer has anyone to speak up for them. I have lived most of my life belonging to one or more minorities, and I have always been one of those who are strong enough to speak up when I see a need for it. Clearly I have just wasted the last forty-odd years of my life. Congratulations, all of you. (This is not directed at literally all of you, but if you think it might be, it probably is). Don't bother replying to me, I won't see it. 4 3 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagnu Posted August 2, 2020 Author Share Posted August 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said: I said last time that I was looking forward to hearing what she has to say when she's not purely on transmit, but when is that going to happen? Likely never lol!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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