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Morality is different in SL vs RL


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4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Have you considered that your partner actually did feel more 'alive' after their interaction with you...even if they were married.  Perhaps their marriage wasn't working or was stale yet they couldn't quite leave the person but wanted to have a quality experience with another. This is pretty common really, though I'd prefer they left their partner first and lived with honesty.

But to your 2nd point -- perhaps it benefits Pearl because she wants to feel she's doing something helpful or useful.

The first time I believed it.  The 2nd time, lol.  I was being used, Luna.  It's part of life.  Some of us get involved with people who use us.  However, what Pearl believes about it is for Pearl because I am not her but my suspicions tell me it is a line.  Not much more of an opinion on it, really.  

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Wait....what in the actual hell? Do you know what narcissism actually is? How on earth does narcissism in sl, which is more likely to be a projection of the exact same trait in a person in rl (whether

I think you mean vanity instead of narcissism. Vanity can be a bad thing in RL but in SL it drives the economy. Lust is another vice.... drives the SL economy again.

This is probably the worst thing I have read on the forums for a long time.   Why on earth would having sexual fantasies with a disabled person in RL be considered immoral?  Why on earth imply that di

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4 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

How many times do we need to say something's offensive before you'll believe us that it's actually offensive, and we've every right to BE offended?

Judging by my efforts to "educate" my 26 year old emergency backup son, who's got a good heart and a thick skull... a skabillion.

ETA: It's frustrating, but he's worth the effort.

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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Just now, Madelaine McMasters said:

Judging by my efforts to "educate" my 26 year old emergency backup son, who's got a good heart and a thick skull... a skabillion.

That sounds like a number I'd definitely use. 

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12 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

I totally agree. A huge ego is not a good thing, whether RL or SL. But really that come only come from the person behind the AV. I think a reasonable amount of vanity is good in RL,  but a large amount in SL helps us hone our RL aesthetic skills, and is wonderful for the SL economy.

With so many things it's simply about balance or degree. Some ego, some vanity is good -- it's only bad if the characteristic becomes excessive.

One example -- I knew someone in SL who was worried about a friend who spent all day in SL having cybersex.  Now there's nothing wrong about sex in SL, but his friend to spent all day doing it, neglecting other important facets of his life -- he had become excessive and unbalanced with this activity to the point of him becoming an addict as he attempted to escape from other important parts of his life.

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8 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

I totally agree. A huge ego is not a good thing, whether RL or SL. But really that come only come from the person behind the AV. I think a reasonable amount of vanity is good in RL,  but a large amount in SL helps us hone our RL aesthetic skills, and is wonderful for the SL economy.

As I explained in a previous post, I don't think we're more vain here.

Maddy looks better than me because it's so effortless to be pretty here. I take the path of least resistance. I'd have to spend hours and dollars to make Maddy as grungy and haggard as I look on a good day in RL.

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8 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

I know someone once pointed out in another thread that saying this is extremely offensive, so I am just pointing it out again. 

You are implying that disabled people do not feel human, which is very untrue.  They may not always be able to do the same things as fully able people, or may not be able to interact the same (ie an absence of access to partners), but that does not make them any less human.

It is simply my wording, and in no way was it meant to imply anyone is less human. I'm trying to express that SL allows those with disabilities to do things they can't in RL, and it can make them feel good. I want to help with  that.

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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

I think she may mean "feel alive again".  But, I've had men say that to me in real life.  It's something guys say who usually end up being married.  It's bull from the guy trying to justify himself, imo.  And, she fell for it.   However, I think I've had guys in real life tell me that line too..."you made me feel human again".  It's a line because they are usually married or heavily involved and want to play around before they get married.   All I can say is I've heard that sap before in real life.  The dudes are probably married and trying to justify fooling around.  It's manipulative too, from the guy.  Don't fall for that, Bagnu.  Lots and lots and lots of women could make them "feel human".   It's total bull.  

The point was this: She's literally claiming that her SL escorting is a moral act, because RL disability. Here:

11 hours ago, Bagnu said:

I help people live out their sexual fantasies here, (and make them feel human if they are RL disabled). In RL what I am would be considered immoral. In SL I feel that I'm morally doing the right thing!!!

Well, if you are going to say that, then I'm going to ask if you give favourable rates to disabled people, or even offer the services for free. I'm guessing not? Fine, it's a business. But don't then try to use disabled people to add some layer of higher morality to what you do. It's exploitative.

Anyone who does sexual roleplay is helping people live out their sexual fantasies. Hell, there's a boat load of "free use" women,under various titles, who won't charge at all. They're the truly moral and altruistic ones, if you're going to look at it like that. 

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6 hours ago, Cindy Evanier said:

You're not.  I am disabled.  I make no secret of it since diagnosis.  I have MS  so some days less abled than others. 

I recently had a chat with a woman that we used to date once and now she has been diagnosed since January with highly active relapsing remitting MS just at the age of 34..

The doctors tried some treatments but didn't do much so since June she is treated with fingolimod.

Hope everything works well for you and sort of keep it under control.  Don't worry about SL it's a game and practically speaking just nonsense, make sure you take care of yourself and avoid RL isolation.

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18 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Some of us get involved with people who use us.  However, what Pearl believes about it is for Pearl because I am not her but my suspicions tell me it is a line.

Well I think we'd totally agree on one thing Fairre....one should not always immediately trust what someone says!  The good thing is that, given enough time, usually we will become aware if the words don't match up with the actions.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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40 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Isn't "free and equitable" a moral framework?

No; living in liberty and equality are a natural state of being, not an imposed moral framework. It's a description, not the ten commandments.

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26 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:
36 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

does not automatically mean it's a "line" for all of Pearl's clients -- her clients could be genuinely expressing how they feel -- 'alive' again via their virtual experience with her.

I stopped counting the times I was told I was the best sexytimes they'd ever had, how they couldn't live without me, how they'd leave SL if I ever left them.  It's ALWAYS a line.

Maybe you're hanging around the wrong people?

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1 minute ago, Chromal Brodsky said:
45 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Isn't "free and equitable" a moral framework?

No; living in liberty and equality are a natural state of being, not an imposed moral framework. It's a description, not the ten commandments.

And now the thread becomes truly interesting...

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None of my clients have ever admitted to having any sort of disability. I'm going on discussions I have had inworld, and what I have read on the internet.

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15 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

It is simply my wording, and in no way was it meant to imply anyone is less human. I'm trying to express that SL allows those with disabilities to do things they can't in RL, 

Did you make that belief up in your head or did someone actually say that to you?   How do you know they are disabled?  Do they tell you that?  

I'll tell you something, Pearl, whether you believe it or not, even able-bodied guys say that "you make me feel alive again" or "you make me feel human again after a long time" or whatever.  It's been used on me in real life to string me along or to try to justify their extra-martial affair.

But, how did you come to this conclusion you keep repeating regarding disabled clients that they "feel human again"?  Do they tell you?  

Edited by FairreLilette
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5 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

It is simply my wording, and in no way was it meant to imply anyone is less human. I'm trying to express that SL allows those with disabilities to do things they can't in RL, and it can make them feel good. I want to help with  that.

Whatever your purpose or reasoning or intentions - I'm not going to judge you for them.  What I have been judging you on, however, is your words.  First was your constant advertising, which has since become a signature (which I don't have activated so do not see), and now this "disabled/human" line, which has been repeatedly told to you, is offensive and you just keep using it.  

There is so much to explore and do in SL and to talk about on these forums, and in fact, I have replied (rather positively) on a few of your posts about different topics.  It doesn't always have to be about sex, relating to sex, or your chosen SL profession.  That is what is polarising people around here.  There are those who are so "woke" they'll excuse anything, and those who see your constant need to draw attention to your chosen profession as nothing more than the attention seeking ego stroking of an immature narcissist.  Just some friendly advice you are welcome to ignore.

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19 minutes ago, Chromal Brodsky said:

No; living in liberty and equality are a natural state of being, not an imposed moral framework. It's a description, not the ten commandments.

Ah if only. Wouldn't that be ideal.

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31 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

So carry on with your scapegoating pile-on, those who get such a thrill in trashing others so you can feel superior for awhile, but at least be accurate and stop dissing her for repeating what her clients said makes them feel better. She's not calling disabled people 'inhuman' for God's sake. 

I get you think you're sticking up for her, but you're not. When you're told something is offensive, and you keep doing it anyway, it stops being a case of everyone else just being mean to you. (general you of course). How many times do we need to say something's offensive before you'll believe us that it's actually offensive, and we've every right to BE offended?

I trust nothing from people who misinterpreted her and piled on her from day one. She's become a scapegoat -- an unjustified one. You know how these things operate...surely you've seen them before....the ball gets rolling and more pile on. So what if she imagines she's helping others who could be disabled or need her in other ways -- no need to demonize her for it.  There's much worse in the world we could pick on. 

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7 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

None of my clients have ever admitted to having any sort of disability.

*facepalm*

So the truth is, not only are you repeating offensive garbage that "someone told you" or "you read online", you've never actually had a disabled client, so you nave never heard the things you keep repeating from actual disabled people?

Please stop now, before the hole you are digging collapses over you.

Please, do us all (and by us, I mean people with disabilities) a favour. Just stop talking about disability at all. Just stop it. Say nothing about it, until you have educated yourself about what having disabilities is really like. I suggest starting with virtualability.org, which has its own regions in-world. Go to some of the talks and conferences they host. Learn something. And stop speaking for us.

 

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18 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

None of my clients have ever admitted to having any sort of disability. I'm going on discussions I have had inworld, and what I have read on the internet.

We posted at the same time and then my post is after yours asking if they told you they were disabled.

So, you made it up in your mind or are repeating a type of myth or rumor.

Then, I will ask too, please don't do it anymore.  It doesn't have anything to do with your SL or your profession.  

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I trust nothing from people who misinterpreted her and piled on her from day one. She's become a scapegoat -- an unjustified one. You know how these things operate...surely you've seen them before....the ball gets rolling and more pile on. So what if she imagines she's helping others who could be disabled or need her in other ways -- no need to demonize her for it.  There's much worse in the world we could pick on. 

But the thing is, when people say offensive things, and someone else feels sorry for them and says "it's okay, you didn't mean it", it just perpetuates the offense by reinforcing the attitude that being offensive to people with disabilities is acceptable behaviour in society.

 

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24 minutes ago, Chromal Brodsky said:
1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Isn't "free and equitable" a moral framework?

No; living in liberty and equality are a natural state of being, not an imposed moral framework. It's a description, not the ten commandments.

Why do you think there's so much inequality and a tendency to take away others' freedom in the world?   I'm just wondering if you have an explanation for the sake of discussion -- I'm not challenging your assertion that "living in liberty and equality are a natural state of being".

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22 minutes ago, Chromal Brodsky said:

No; living in liberty and equality are a natural state of being, not an imposed moral framework. It's a description, not the ten commandments.

Utterly untrue.  The natural state of mankind is slavery and oppression.  Just read a little history.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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5 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

Whatever your purpose or reasoning or intentions - I'm not going to judge you for them.  What I have been judging you on, however, is your words.  First was your constant advertising, which has since become a signature (which I don't have activated so do not see), and now this "disabled/human" line, which has been repeatedly told to you, is offensive and you just keep using it.  

There is so much to explore and do in SL and to talk about on these forums, and in fact, I have replied (rather positively) on a few of your posts about different topics.  It doesn't always have to be about sex, relating to sex, or your chosen SL profession.  That is what is polarising people around here.  There are those who are so "woke" they'll excuse anything, and those who see your constant need to draw attention to your chosen profession as nothing more than the attention seeking ego stroking of an immature narcissist.  Just some friendly advice you are welcome to ignore.

Maybe I missed the repeatedly part of the disabled/human thing. Maybe my wording isn't as precise as it should be. Maybe I am an attention seeking immature narcissist. So?  In SL I love fashion and photography as well. I have asked a lot of questions here in the forums about those. 

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