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SLAuctions

Second Life takes 10GB+ of RAM ??

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The fact is that the program has big requirements if you want to run it good without problems but on the other side i think that 10 MB of RAM is excessive. I dont think that more than 2-3 MB RAM required.

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Sassy Romano wrote:

Poor programming, bad QA.  Memory leak.

I know I posted this elsewhere but can't resist posting it again:

 

Top 10 things likely to be overheard from a Klingon Programmer at Linden Lab.

 

1.  Specifications are for the weak and timid!

2.  You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you stand!

3.  Indentation?! - I will show you how to indent when I indent your skull!

4.  What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software 'releases'. Our software 'escapes' leaving a bloody trail of designers and quality assurance people in its wake.

5.  Klingon function calls do not have 'parameters' - they have 'arguments' - and they ALWAYS WIN THEM.

6.  Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the weak.

7.  A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment on his code!

8.  Klingon software does NOT have BUGS. It has FEATURES, and those features are too sophisticated for a Romulan pig like you to understand.

9.  You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert unless you've read it in the original Klingon.

10.  Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!

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Yes and no. A 32bit program (on Windows) can only address 2GB of ram. So there's something a little more complex going on here then just the usual canned response of "lol the lindens are stupid".

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That's what I was thinking about, and why I tried to ask to ask a couple of questions about when the memory is used. LL has done some work on memory leaks, but there are still leaks in the program, no doubt. In the beginning, viewer 2 would leak quite a lot of memory, but nothing in the region we are talking about here. I believe the viewer leaking 10GB of RAM leaked would take days to build up. If the RAM is used from the startup of the program, or shortly after, there is definitely something else going on.

- Luc -

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Luc Starsider wrote:

That's what I was thinking about, and why I tried to ask to ask a couple of questions about when the memory is used. LL has done some work on memory leaks, but there are still leaks in the program, no doubt. In the beginning, viewer 2 would leak quite a lot of memory, but nothing in the region we are talking about here. I believe the viewer leaking 10GB of RAM leaked would take days to build up. If the RAM is used from the startup of the program, or shortly after, there is definitely something else going on.

- Luc -

I'll say it for a third time since no one listens to me. A 32bit program on Windows can only address 2^31 bytes of memory which comes out to 2GB. In other words it is impossible for the viewer to use 10GB of ram, memory leak or otherwise. The only way for the "viewer" to use that much ram is for secondlife.exe and four copies of slplugin.exe to each be using 2GB of ram (or various other combinations that add up to 10GB).

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I'm listening, leliel. I just didn't read what you said earlier in the way you highlighted it now.

I'll take your word for it regarding the leaks. Something is wrong here, and in a weird way what I meant above is that the viewer is probably only partly, if at all, to blame.

- Luc -

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There's only three ways for this to happen. The first as I out lined above. Second assuming SLAuctions is using an official viewer (which are all 32bits) then this is a bug in Windows or the graphics driver. Third SLAuctions is using a 64bit TPV, this would still be a massive memory leak but they should take it up with the TPV developers.

 

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you forgot a couple, one is really stupid, but withing the realm of possibility.... viewer requests additional memory for threads, beyond what it can address (without checking it's own address space first), the OS grants it, but the viewer is unable to address it, and requests it again... wash rinse repeat.

the other is some sort of memory managment being done by the OS transparently, but is unlikely since I don't think there are any of that nature shipped by default, and it's seems insane that it would be enabled for programs that don't understand it. even PAE is smart enough not to option memory extension for a single program beyond the 2Gb limit on 32bit windows

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for some reason the viewer will eventually slam my CPU to 100% and lag terribly. The only resolution is a reboot. I don't monitor free memory though but I do think the current viewer does have a memory leak again.

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Jonna Korhonen wrote:

for some reason the viewer will eventually slam my CPU to 100% and lag terribly. The only resolution is a reboot. I don't monitor free memory though but I do think the current viewer does have a memory leak again.

^ This ^  :(

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I am using a HP dual core computer with 1917 ram and a 2.3 ghz possessor (amd). Anyway my computer used to jump to 100% usage for no reason, and freaked me out!!! So I went online and found this which so far has made my computer only use 60- 65% capacity while running viewer2.

 

 Bring up Windows Task Manager with:
        Windows XP: Ctrl-Alt-Del
        Windows Vista: Ctrl-Shift-Esc
        Windows 7: Ctrl-Shift-Esc

    Click the Processes tab and select your viewer you are using
    Right click it and select “Set Affinity”.

    Select only one of the available cores, to begin with.

You will need to experiment at this point; there is no guide as to which core will work better for you. You may also be able to select more than one.

Also, the downside of this is that it will have to be done every time you run the viewer.

 

So far this has helped in a big way for me this is on windows btw.

 

 

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I have an i5 750 and for a long time the 2.x viewer worked just fine. win7 would manage across all 4 cores with no problems. about the time avatar physics came out in the development viewer I noticed that at some point, my processor would max out and the only way to recover SL usage was to reboot the computer. It's been like that ever since, eventually I have to reboot to run the viewer.

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Void Singer wrote:

you forgot a couple, one is really stupid, but withing the realm of possibility.... viewer requests additional memory for threads, beyond what it can address (without checking it's own address space first), the OS grants it, but the viewer is unable to address it, and requests it again... wash rinse repeat.

Threads share the same global address space as the process so that's not possible either. Besides you can't request specific regions of memory from user space. You can only do that from kernel space, even then only from the low level portions of the kernel that use physical addressing, most of the kernel uses virtual addressing just like user space processes.


the other is some sort of memory managment being done by the OS transparently, but is unlikely since I don't think there are any of that nature shipped by default, and it's seems insane that it would be enabled for programs that don't understand it. even PAE is smart enough not to option memory extension for a single program beyond the 2Gb limit on 32bit windows

PAE is enabled by default on Windows Sever 2003 R2 and Server 2008. However PAE only extends the kernel's physical address space (by switching from byte addressing to page addressing), user space is still limited to 32bit byte addressing. But even if PAE could extend the user address space Microsoft wouldn't be able to use it since the win32 api is, well, 32 bits.

 

Basically put, there is no way for this to happen to a 32bit program. You have to be able to address memory before you can leak it. This is like saying a 10 tonne boulder fell off the back of a bicycle. You can't even get to boulder on the bike so how could it have fallen off?

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I didn't mean to suggest that the viewer was requesting specific regions of memory, only that it might be starting threads beyond what it can address, being unable to address them, and so re requesting them (the abandoned space being effecitevely leaked before it can even be used) the OS should prevent this, unless the viewer is misreporting, or there's some combination of calls exposing an OS flaw.

PS PAE is also auto enabled of winXPPro starting at sp2 or 3 I think, if more than 2gb? of physical memory is detected, but as I said, PAE shouldn't cause that, because like you said, it using paging to limit what an app has access to.

 

I think your guess at  plugins is a much more likely explanation, possibly moreso if the use plugin read thread option is turned on... from what I've seen the viewer opens SLplugin separately for each media instance, and doesn't ever seem to close them, sometimes despite not actually needing them (I've had at least 4 going with media disabled =/)

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PAE is not activated on stock 32bit Windows XP on neither SP. You can use the /3GB Windows start option to increase the maximum amount of virtual memory a process/application can acquire. In conjunction with setting the LAA bit in 32bit Windows application binaries, those can use up to 3GB of virtual memory instead of 2GB on 32bit Windows versions.

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I mispoke, it's not if more than 2Gb is detected, it's if DEP is enabled that PAE is auto-enabled (assuming support)

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Huge problems at the moment with viewer 2.6. More than ever before to my experience.

It consumes all the memory you got and uses up all CPU time too 100% no matter what system we have at the moment causing large freezes, overloading and hard crashes even BSOD's. 

Not to mention that the UI itself has always been under attack since day one.

I find SL2 terribly unusable. I entered from 1.23.5 to 2.4 in Dec 2010. 

When 2.5 came out, 2.4 became seriously borked with micro freezes, so i went back to 1.23.5.

I tried to use 2.6 lately, but it freezes my entire system withing 5 minutes because it loads my processors and all memory to 100% constantly. Even in empty sims.

It is no wonder why SL doesn't expand and is actually shrinking bit by bit. The programming of it is really really really bad. Inworld i hear so much complaining about SL2 that i can't understand why LL doesn't feel any remorse and regret. 

 

Of course LL doesn't really care because they receive appr. 30000 sims x its tier every month. But that is IT mentality so very often, they just want to get ritch and famous try to provide a good impression, but not really want to work with real problems at hand.

And Philip Rosedale isn't motivated too much on SL anymore so he has hired 2 CEO's already. But the first thing they do is bork it even more and more and never solve long standing issues.

Untill everybody is fed up, but LL also knows that people simply go virtual anyway, so they don't care very much to produce better programming.

It has become an institute rather than an innovation company, unfortunate. They are so caught up in their thing that they really don't care about better programming.

We totally cashed out last week since we have little believe anymore in SL.

And guess what, our process credits was borked, so we couldn't, however in the end we changed to DXechange and took all the money out of the game.

At the moment, 80% of the time is used to troubleshoot show stopper problems with SL2 when i wanted to login to have some fun. But after an hour i am really fed up and go do other things since i can't get SL get to work normal or solve the giant issues. And LL can't solve them either, so...

Also HTTP textues on gives me HUGE lag, texture load takes ages. When off all rezzes instant as i was used to, but then my processors lock up at 100% feezing the entire notebook.

I don't want to spend 80% of my time working show stop problems, i just wanna have fun. 

1.23.5 is used as the principle viewer for us as long as we can, then it is up to SL.

Really sad :smileysad:

 

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