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So how does BoM work....a simpletons guide please?


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Yesterday I got distracted, and activated BoM on my Genus head. Talk about being red faced! ;)

So......"remove head alpha", and I'm back as me but a bit pale.

So..... on a roll, I add a BoM version of my skin and I'm me again, but whe I rezz, I get a glimpse of the horror which is my system avi under my Genus. 

So.....my questions. Why does BoM turn my applier head skin red?

Why does removing the alpha fix that, and why doesn't my system head show through? Does the BoM setting incorporate an alpha?

I can't figure out what's going on. 

And having said all that. What's the point of complicating something which works fine as it is?

I've unravelled my mistake and I'm back to appliers.  I just don't get it.

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24 minutes ago, BelindaN said:

Yesterday I got distracted, and activated BoM on my Genus head. Talk about being red faced! ;)

   Tihi.

24 minutes ago, BelindaN said:

So.....my questions. Why does BoM turn my applier head skin red?

   Basically it's just to signal that your head is BOM activated but that an alpha hides the system skin, I think.

26 minutes ago, BelindaN said:

Why does removing the alpha fix that, and why doesn't my system head show through? Does the BoM setting incorporate an alpha?

   I believe so, yes! As the 'system' head is hidden, the mesh must contain an alpha - I 'think' that this is included in the part where it goes 'I'm where you render the head texture for the system skin'. But I'm no expert!

27 minutes ago, BelindaN said:

I can't figure out what's going on. 

   dwB8Uj5.gif

28 minutes ago, BelindaN said:

And having said all that. What's the point of complicating something which works fine as it is?

   BOM actually has some really great benefits to it, such as the ability to layer tattoos and avoiding alpha glitches. Appliers are limited to the 'onion' principle, which makes avatars a lot more complex than necessary.

30 minutes ago, BelindaN said:

I've unravelled my mistake and I'm back to appliers.  I just don't get it.

   Appliers work fine, too, but BOM really is an improvement! 

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Belinda, see if this helps. I wrote it for someone that as here years ago and is now back.

 

24 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Basically it's just to signal that your head is BOM activated but that an alpha hides the system skin, I think. 

It is a bit simpler. When the viewer sees a BOM attachment worn it just does not render the part of the avatar under it. So, head, upper, and lower are the individual parts that are ignored.

If you wear a mesh BOM body that does not have hands or feet, you won't have hands or feet as they are part of the upper and lower parts automatically not being rendered. So you'll know WTH is wrong... the transparent parts render as waring colors.

24 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   I believe so, yes! As the 'system' head is hidden, the mesh must contain an alpha - I 'think' that this is included in the part where it goes 'I'm where you render the head texture for the system skin'. But I'm no expert!   

The head is the third part... no alpha. The render engine just ignores the whole thing. So that alphas work as we expect they can't just be ignored. To avoid confusion the BOM viewers render an alpha'd ignored part with a warning color. The colored parts are to give us a clue we did it wrong. So, no mesh texture to render plus only a classic alpha to render equals a warning texture, red, blue, yellow. There is NOT supposed to be an alpha on the classic body as that is just another texture to be loaded that is not going to be used.

Quote

I can't figure out...

You have LOTS of company!

Over the last 3 or 5 years new people have come in and climbed the rather steep learning curve that Appliers created. BOM serves several purposes. One of those is to reduce the learning curve down to the easier classic avatar level the viewers are designed to support. It also makes it easier to make tats, makeup, and skins.

For you, it adds a new learning curve and that is a PITA. Sorry. Plus you have to dig into the history of SL and the older ways of doing things with the classic avatar. Many of us have the old experience as a foundation for understanding the SL avatar.

24 minutes ago, Orwar said:

 BOM actually has some really great benefits to it, such as the ability to layer tattoos and avoiding alpha glitches. Appliers are limited to the 'onion' principle, which makes avatars a lot more complex than necessary.

   Appliers work fine, too, but BOM really is an improvement! 

Orwar is right. BOM is a big improvement. Both performance-wise and learning curve-wise. I know it doesn't seem that way to you. If you decide to make a tattoo, you'll be surprised how easy it is to do now compared to making an Applier tattoo.

Edited by Nalates Urriah
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55 minutes ago, Orwar said:

Appliers work fine, too, but BOM really is an improvement! 

LOL!

Sorry, I got a laugh out of that.

But, seriously, now.  Serious' meself up here and tries to stop laughing.  (And, no, I'm not laughing at you or anyone Orwar - I'm laughing at BOM).  

I know how you feel Belinda.  I thought SL is going to kill itself with BOM.  It's just nuts at first.   Wait 'til you get to the eyes.  It's not a pretty sight. 

I wanted to use some old Gacha skins I have, so I went back to appliers yesterday and appliers really are easier.  

I don't know why, they just are.  To me.  

So, now that I've used the good old Omegas since going to BOM about one month ago, I am going to change back to BOM because what I found out is I had a way less avatar complexity and my framerate jumped up about 10-22 in super busy places and I like busy places.   I had such better computer performance of all things, I want to keep trying BOM.  

Another way I look at BOM is once I have my main skin applied and my eyes, they will probably stay that way awhile so I'm looking at it like this - I won't have to use BOM that often.   I mostly change hairs.  I'm really not a big skin changer, though I have been looking for something new but I want something new in BOM.  

So, find a real reason to like or want BOM; and, if you don't have one, then stay with your Omega appliers.  

And, that's my BOM input in a keep simple kind of way.  

EDIT:  Belinda, I also wanted to say I've noticed a very slow rez with SL lately.  If you are rezzing very slow with BOM, it might be we've moved to the cloud or it's COVID-19 high internet traffic or it's both.  But, I've noticed a BOM avatar can take a long time to render.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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Thanks everybody for ^^^^^^.

Yeah, I'm the applier generation, that's clear. I didn't realise there had been so many interim situations. Learning appliers was a huge challenge. Now they come as second nature to me. I get good results now with appliers, so I'm resisting BoM. Like Fairre, I don't change skins often. I don't use tats either, so really for me it's just about make up, and I don't see an advantage for that with BoM. So just complexity then........

My avi is usually in the 30-60k complexity, and in most places the lag is bearable. One day....... I'll try BoM with one if my alts. I made number 5 to do that anyway....... :)

 

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34 minutes ago, BelindaN said:

Thanks everybody for ^^^^^^.

Yeah, I'm the applier generation, that's clear. I didn't realise there had been so many interim situations. Learning appliers was a huge challenge. Now they come as second nature to me. I get good results now with appliers, so I'm resisting BoM. Like Fairre, I don't change skins often. I don't use tats either, so really for me it's just about make up, and I don't see an advantage for that with BoM. So just complexity then........

My avi is usually in the 30-60k complexity, and in most places the lag is bearable. One day....... I'll try BoM with one if my alts. I made number 5 to do that anyway....... :)

1) Wear makeup

2) Wear the almost any mesh hair, including the one in your profile (which I also has!)

3) Move the camera until the wisps of your hair partially covers your makeup, particularly your eyes

4) Zoom in, and have a little cry at what you see

Exhibit A:

365839ed79.png

My eyeliner is an applier, because I'm lazy. Notice how the hair overlap removes that slice of eyeliner entirely? My eyebrows and freckles are BoM tattoos. Notice how these are fine?

The thing to remember about BoM is that once it's set up, it's considerably easier and more straightforward than appliers. Objectively so. Want to wear a makeup layer? Right click -> Add. Want to remove it, but only it? Right click -> Take Off. No need to fiddle with appliers, no need to wipe a layer so you can reapply. Different makeup sets can be saved as part of outfits, for instant swaps.

And if you could get your head around appliers, you will be able to understand BoM. Even if the transition is initially bumpy.

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5 hours ago, BelindaN said:

Thanks everybody for ^^^^^^.

Yeah, I'm the applier generation, that's clear. I didn't realise there had been so many interim situations. Learning appliers was a huge challenge. Now they come as second nature to me. I get good results now with appliers, so I'm resisting BoM. Like Fairre, I don't change skins often. I don't use tats either, so really for me it's just about make up, and I don't see an advantage for that with BoM. So just complexity then........

My avi is usually in the 30-60k complexity, and in most places the lag is bearable. One day....... I'll try BoM with one if my alts. I made number 5 to do that anyway....... :)

 

Yeah, I look at it this way...it's okay to be a BOM drop out for awhile.  It's kind of like the mesh bodies, we change to the mesh body because it's our time to do so.  We want to learn it even though it's complicated at first to learn the mesh bodies.

As far as the alpha glitches, I get some problems with certain hairs and the eyelashes, as well as certain hairs and clothing not working to well when it's appliers, so BOM helps in this area too.

BOM does have a problem with some hairs fitting right though.  This is one thing I'm having difficulty with.  I cannot wear a lot of my hairs because they don't sit right on the head.  So, in this sense, BOM or the new Catwa head or whatever it is, many of my hairs don't sit right.  I had to buy all new hairs when I went BOM.  

I think designers should put either/or in their folders and not just release BOM skins/make-ups.  Although as Natalie is saying, maybe BOM is easier for creators and the skins for BOM may be made a different way.  I really don't know as I don't make skins or make-ups.

As far as make-up, I almost never wore any.  It is only recently with my Catya head I have been wearing lipstick.  I don't wear much make-up on my avis.

I want to continue tests with BOM to see how much better computer performance I can get.  I've noticed I've had a little bit of a frames per second (FPS) increase with some of the cloud moving.  The FPS are about half better with my appliers than what I get with BOM.  So, the better computer performance may be due to the cloud as well, but with appliers about half better.  

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19 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

As far as the alpha glitches, I get some problems with certain hairs and the eyelashes, as well as certain hairs and clothing not working to well when it's appliers, so BOM helps in this area too.

BoM does not change lashes. There is no ability to have 'BoM lashes'. Your lashes are the same as they have always been.

19 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

BOM does have a problem with some hairs fitting right though.  This is one thing I'm having difficulty with.  I cannot wear a lot of my hairs because they don't sit right on the head.  So, in this sense, BOM or the new Catwa head or whatever it is, many of my hairs don't sit right.  I had to buy all new hairs when I went BOM. 

As a Catwa CSR I can tell you that BoM changes absolutely nothing that would affect your hair's position on your head. The way that Catwa heads activate BoM is via the BoM buton on the v4.5 Master HUD. That BoM button is actually just a skin applier, and the 'skin' that it applies is the special BoM 'bake' textures that allow your system layers to show on your mesh head. It is physically impossible for that to have any effect on how your mesh hair fits on your head.

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24 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

BoM does not change lashes. There is no ability to have 'BoM lashes'. Your lashes are the same as they have always been.

No, that's not what I meant.  I mean the alpha in the eyelashes and the alpha in some hairs especially as the hair might skim across the eyes, with appliers there is a glitch.  BOM won't help this issue of eyelash alpha and hair alpha clashing?

 

24 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

As a Catwa CSR I can tell you that BoM changes absolutely nothing that would affect your hair's position on your head. The way that Catwa heads activate BoM is via the BoM buton on the v4.5 Master HUD. That BoM button is actually just a skin applier, and the 'skin' that it applies is the special BoM 'bake' textures that allow your system layers to show on your mesh head. It is physically impossible for that to have any effect on how your mesh hair fits on your head.

I'm glad you spoke here Skell because yes it does.  Although it could be I was using Strawberry when I bought the hairs.  I bought Catya about six weeks ago.  I then started BOM soon afterward.  So, it could be the hairs that fit Strawberry do not sit nor fit right on Catya.

I'll have to take some pictures later to show you as I have a ton of hair from one company and it does not work on Catya BOM head update.  I think I have Catya BOM head update version.  I don't think the head was updated by just a HUD or was it?

Anyhow, it's a problem.  My favorite hair company does not work on Catya BOM version unless bangs.   

EDIT:  I have the Catwa BOM relay to apply stuff.  Now you are saying there is an updated HUD with BOM?  I have to update a lot of stuff then.  There is a 1 linden BOM relay for Catwa on MP.  Maybe that should be taken off MP then.  

 

Edited by FairreLilette
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2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

No, that's not what I meant.  I mean the alpha in the eyelashes and the alpha in some hairs especially as the hair might skim across the eyes, with appliers there is a glitch.  BOM won't help this issue of eyelash alpha and hair alpha clashing?

BoM won't help with that hair/lash alpha clash, no. As I said, there is no way to create 'BoM lashes'. Your eyelashes can still only be textured using eye appliers, and since both those and your hair contain partial alpha transparencies there will still be that alpha clash. Where BoM will help is if you use BoM eyebrows and BoM makeup. Even with partial alpha transparency on those and your hair, there will be no clash.

4 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I'm glad you spoke here Skell because yes it does.  Although it could be I was using Strawberry when I bought the hairs.  I bought Catya about six weeks ago.  I then started BOM soon afterward.  So, it could be the hairs that fit Strawberry do not sit nor fit right on Catya.

You didn't state that a hairstyle that fitted one head didn't fit another. You said that you had to buy all new hair when you went BoM. Now that you've given the information that you're having trouble fitting the same hairstyle between two different heads I can give a more accurate response: your Strawberry shape is different from your Catya shape. So yes, a rigged mesh hairstyle that fitted perfectly on one shape might not fit perfectly on another. If your hair has a resizing option, or an unrigged option then try that instead. You can resize it to fit properly, and reposition it. Or you can take certain slider numbers - depending on where the hair isn't fitting - from your Strawberry head shape, and transfer them to your Catya head shape.

The fit itself, however, has nothing to do with BoM.

6 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I think I have Catya BOM head update version.  I don't think the head was updated by just a HUD or was it?

There was absolutely zero change to the mesh itself when the head was updated to include BoM. The head was always capable of BoM, because - as I already mentioned - the way that Catwa heads enable BoM is via a skin applier.

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2 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

You didn't state that a hairstyle that fitted one head didn't fit another. You said that you had to buy all new hair when you went BoM. Now that you've given the information that you're having trouble fitting the same hairstyle between two different heads I can give a more accurate response: your Strawberry shape is different from your Catya shape. So yes, a rigged mesh hairstyle that fitted perfectly on one shape might not fit perfectly on another. If your hair has a resizing option, or an unrigged option then try that instead. You can resize it to fit properly, and reposition it. Or you can take certain slider numbers - depending on where the hair isn't fitting - from your Strawberry head shape, and transfer them to your Catya head shape.

The fit itself, however, has nothing to do with BoM.

Okay, thanks for the info on the lashes and hair.

Regarding this above. ^^^^^^  Yes, I switched to Catya at the same time I was starting BOM.  I thought it might be BOM applying system itself causing the hair not to fit right.  Yes, the hairs fit on Strawberry but not Catya unless bang style for Catya and about 70% of my hairs are from my favorite company BUT they are not unrigged and you cannot reposition the hairs.

My favorite thing is shopping for hair so I have found some that work great for Catya but she is a lot more finicky when it comes to hair fitting so I assumed it might be because of BOM.  I don't see why one hair maker works so great on Strawberry and not Catya.  Actually Catya is very finicky to fit but I love Catya head way more than Strawberry as Catya is just more versatile to the slider options, imo.    

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30 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

No, that's not what I meant.  I mean the alpha in the eyelashes and the alpha in some hairs especially as the hair might skim across the eyes, with appliers there is a glitch.  BOM won't help this issue of eyelash alpha and hair alpha clashing?

The "alpha glitch" can happen when any two partially transparent textures (that use alpha blending instead of alpha masking) overlap. The difference between blending and masking is that alpha blending allows partially transparent pixels in the texture, but alpha masking only allows either solid or fully transparent pixels.

BOM solves this when it comes to tattoos and makeup because those "partially transparent" textures are combined with the solid, non-transparent skin texture.

7 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I don't see why one hair maker works so great on Strawberry and not Catya.  Actually Catya is very finicky to fit but I love Catya head way more than Strawberry as Catya is just more versatile to the slider options, imo.    

It depends entirely on how the hair is rigged to the many "bones" of the SL skeleton. Not all hair creators bother rigging the hair to every slider, some don't rig to any besides the head/neck/chest (so the hair can bend with them). And the hair's rigging is specifically based on the SL skeleton, so, different heads will be rigged differently as well so it's literally impossible for hair (or anything else) to have 1:1 match to every head.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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5 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Yes, the hairs fit on Strawberry but not Catya unless bang style for Catya

If your hair is digging into your forehead (the only reason why I can think you might need bangs to fix it by covering it up) then there's one shape slider you can change that should remedy the issue. I'm not logged in right now so I can't remember which one it is, but it affects the angle of your forehead. Play around with that one and you'll find that - if that is the issue - then increasing that slider will fix it.

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17 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

The "alpha glitch" can happen when any two partially transparent textures (that use alpha blending instead of alpha masking) overlap. The difference between blending and masking is that alpha blending allows partially transparent pixels in the texture, but alpha masking only allows either solid or fully transparent pixels.

Some of my hairs are modify, I wonder if I put the hairs on alpha masking if it would help the alphas clashing with eyelashes/some hairs?  

 

17 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

If your hair is digging into your forehead (the only reason why I can think you might need bangs to fix it by covering it up) then there's one shape slider you can change that should remedy the issue. I'm not logged in right now so I can't remember which one it is, but it affects the angle of your forehead. Play around with that one and you'll find that - if that is the issue - then increasing that slider will fix it.

It may be forehead angle you are talking about.  I'll try it and play around with it then.  Thanks very much, Skell!

Edit:  Belinda, I don't know how BOM works either.  I thought it was affecting how my hairs sit on my head - it isn't as I thought BOM was a whole system but I don't know anything about it.  I don't know how the heck it works or what it is doing either, but I do have a better avatar complexity and better computer performance as far as FPS I'd like to keep testing to see what's going on with that.   BOM seems to up my frames per second in busy places and I have less lag.  I dunno why or if it's a coincidence with things moving to the cloud or what but I'd still like to do some tests on it.  

Go BOM if and when you have a real reason too, is my best opinion about the whole thing, because it's frustrating.  

 

Edited by FairreLilette
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2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Some of my hairs are modify, I wonder if I put the hairs on alpha masking if it would help the alphas clashing with eyelashes/some hairs?  

It absolutely would, but I'm not sure you'll like the look of the hair if it's set to alpha masking, depends how much blending the hair has to begin with.

I would rather recommend setting the lashes to masking (since they're a smaller and less noticeable), I don't recall if Catwa has that option in the HUD.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

I would rather recommend setting the lashes to masking (since they're a smaller and less noticeable), I don't recall if Catwa has that option in the HUD.

Yes, it does have that option:

a33625025c2bd4f603766ed807a3e044.png

@FairreLilette Masking the lashes may - depending on how dark and thick they are (and as I recall your avatar has white hair anyway, so possibly it won't look too bad) - make them look 'spidery'. You could try masking the hair, but that trick only works on very sleek styles that have no feathering, curls, or 'wispy bits'. See this video for how to mask just certain sections of your hair that are causing problems. In that video I was dealing with the alpha halo caused by using an applier hairbase, long before BoM came along, but the same hair masking trick would stop the hair from glitching with the lashes, assuming the hair itself looks okay with masking set like that.

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I was away from SL for 11 years, came back at xmas and all the changes terrified me! lol. I spent about 2 weeks watching all the youtube vid's I could dealing with "mesh" and "BoM". While I struggled at the start with Dano and mesh (mainly trying to match body skins to head skins and the dreaded 'cut throat' line problem!) I sent my female alt 'Jenna' to play with BoM. Mistakes were made, sure, but I found it all a lot easier than with Dano, not least due to many BoM skins applying body AND head skins as one! The only minor problem I've come across with BoM (eventually!), is that you can't change the opacity on make up. What goes on is how it stays on!
There's a few little tricks to find out about, like "sweet's free nail fix", which will make finger and toe nails fit properly and stuff like that, but they're just a matter of a quick query on here or to anyone who uses BoM already.
I even made 2 more BoM alt's after Jenna, mainly due to following "make a free avatar" videos on the tube.....so, if I can do it, anyone with half a brain should be able to!  😆
You're women ffs! You're a lot better and more patient at this kind of stuff....get to it ladies!  😁

Jenna, full BoM (top)....Danae, full BoM (bottom). 

 

Snapshot_047_2.png

Snapshot_054.png

Edited by Dano Seale
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I use the Slink Redux body and being able to wear system layers and use alpha layers instead of appliers and alpha cuts is much easier for me, and very much like how things were when I started here in 2014, so it felt very familiar for me.

I often got frustrated with using appliers, dealing with what goes on what layer, which layers need to be turned off for different outfits, and trying to remember which outfit needed which alpha cuts turned on or off.  I had tried some of the auto-alpha stuff, but never quite got the hang of that when I was combining pieces from different outfits together to make a new outfit.  

So far, there has only been a handful of clothes I have that I wasn't able to find an existing alpha layer that worked.  Slink includes a set of alpha layers with the body, plus has another set for free at the store.  I also picked up a nice set of alphas from the Little Black Dress store, plus I already had some alphas in inventory from clothes I purchased over the years that included an alpha layer in the package.  Slink included instructions for making alpha layers - and a colored template tattoo to use for figuring out what needs to be alpha'd out - plus she made youtube videos for making alpha layers  using photoshop or using Gimp.   It was a simple enough process that I was able to successfully make a couple of them.  Given that my brain wants to leave the room when I open Gimp, I was quite pleased about how easy it turned out to be.

So for me, it's pretty much like it used to be with wearing mesh clothes on a classic body (though for some types of clothing, it is still best to wear a version of the clothing item that is rigged for the brand of mesh body you have -  not all old standard sized clothing will fit well).

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I seriously hate dressing with appliers. I left SL many years for it because I just could not deal with missing hairbase etc after TP,  never finding my avatar as how I left it. Not to mention getting those horrors off me, specially demo's... (and yes, maybe I never bothered enough to get that under control, but man...)

A whole new life opened up for me. I find my avatar exactly how I left it, I demo away all day, click the BoM whatever item on and off and it actually shows in what I am wearing, so easy to find. Messing myself up and with one clicky on saved fits I look as myself again :) Brillant.

I am such a fan.

The load though... Yes, not pretty to look at, but who looks cute loading?

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On 6/20/2020 at 5:22 PM, BelindaN said:

So..... on a roll, I add a BoM version of my skin and I'm me again, but whe I rezz, I get a glimpse of the horror which is my system avi under my Genus.

That happens because your mesh has to rez. It happened when you were wearing the alpha too, you just couldn't see the system head due to the alpha. You may have seen it happen to others as they rez in, turning from grey to invisible to mesh.

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  • 2 months later...

i have a question with BOM... and maybe i should already know the answer because i was using BOM on my genus for quite a while..

when theres a makeup store.. and they have..say Eyes or Lip sets.. in boxes for:

genus+bom

catwa+bom

LeL+bom

..are these boms ONLY for that head? do these BOM tatoo/makeup layers only suit the corresponding head it is paired with? or is ALL BOMs for maybe just the same and slaps on??

 

dying to know.. thankyou.

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1 hour ago, xBaeBeex said:

i have a question with BOM... and maybe i should already know the answer because i was using BOM on my genus for quite a while..

when theres a makeup store.. and they have..say Eyes or Lip sets.. in boxes for:

genus+bom

catwa+bom

LeL+bom

..are these boms ONLY for that head? do these BOM tatoo/makeup layers only suit the corresponding head it is paired with? or is ALL BOMs for maybe just the same and slaps on??

 

dying to know.. thankyou.

Any BOM item will show up on anything that is enabled to show BOM. However, there are minor layout differences between heads so it will look different (and possibly bad) on a head that the graphics weren't made for.

If you scroll down DeeTalez's Flickr account they have good illustrations of what will happen:

DeeTaleZ

 

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On 6/20/2020 at 5:53 PM, Orwar said:

Appliers work fine, too, but BOM really is an improvement! 

Yes, I used the appliers a while when that was the only way, but since figuring out BOM it really isso much easier to just add or take away a makeup, a skin{I don't but I could}, tattoos, BOM clothing, I love it, it is well worth figuring out. 

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