HAPPY JUNETEENTH & THE PROGRESS OF BLM

[FairreLilette]

11 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

I worry a lot that as soon as the public has a new distraction it will be business as usual again with racism; both systematic and personal.

I can hope we're in a moment of change, but I also worry deeply.

I particularly worry that people will 'step back' when they start recognizing some of the costs. "this has to change" vs "but that is my thing that I don't want to see altered."

 

I don't know if it's much consolation Pussycat but me and other people of Polish decent (yes I know many) have had to go through a very similar stereotyping with the infamous "polish jokes".   My Mom used to tell me and my sisters the Polish jokes herself and did through most of her life.  The jokes themselves were so stupid Pussycat that me and my sisters groaned rather than laughed.  It made the people who thought those Polish jokes were funny look stupid rather than trying to make Polish people look stupid.  And, as far as "Songs of the South", I could say the WASP culture looks stupid for doing this.  It makes them look so artificial and ridiculously stupid with this stereotyping.  

As far as stereotyping, I've had to let some of it go, water off the duck's back kind of thing because the Polish jokes at least help you know the kind of person you don't want to be friends with in real life.  

Most of us here have already said we don't care about "the stuff".  I've never heard of the Disney movie you are speaking about but the stereotyping from the 20th Century probably never will fully go away and neither will the Polish jokes, but there is still a pretty good life to be had in spite of it all.  

The WASPs took a pretty bad beating from Bob Dylan and The Beatles in some of their songs but there are many other artists who did as well.  Though, most of us here on this forum, are some times wondering what the hell were they (the WASP culture) thinking with the segregation among other things.  One thing about the WASP culture is it is very uneducated, even though they thought they had an amazing education, they didn't.  They're just not hip too much of anything that is "real"; the WASP culture is very much about superficial politeness.   In the song "Ballad of a Thin Man", Bob Dylan takes a pot shot at their supposed education with the line "you've been with the professors and they've all liked your looks".   Beyond looks, there was nothing in their brain.   They were and are a people that are very artificial.  

Edited June 24, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Luna Bliss]

12 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

I worry a lot that as soon as the public has a new distraction it will be business as usual again with racism; both systematic and personal.

Take heart - I like what Martin Luther King said about it, that it's a long road but we do make progress:
  "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."
Our lifetimes are relatively short and so it's difficult to see the changes that do occur over long periods -- one has to study History and compare cultural attitudes in the past to see we are indeed changing for the better.

Sure, for some people this recent explosion in Black freedom awareness is only a fad, and they will revert back to their old ways. And there are those who have so little ability for introspection that they are unable to see how they contribute to racial problems and so won't change. Not to mention those who are adolescent in nature and make a point of doing the opposite of what feels like too much pressure in one direction, and so contribute to the backlash which always occurs in major changes.
But many have greater awareness due to the recent explosion, and changes will occur from this greater awareness just as the explosions of the 60's caused society to change.

I think as the racial composition of the US changes (I believe POC already are the majority now), and we see more POC in positions of authority and so exhibiting qualities incompatible with the "criminal" and "less than Whites" stereotypes, that these stereotypes which have held Blacks back will lessen even more.

[Luna Bliss]

12 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I thought the same about the inspiration for the region name, but also note that that song is troublesome, too. https://www.liveabout.com/camptown-races-stephen-foster-1322494#:~:text=The original title of the,try to make some money.

Very weird. I didn't know about the doodah thing, but I've never known a whole lot about the minstrel shows and songs within, and how Whites made fun of Blacks with these, except for the blackface caricature from early movies.  There's even a town that refers to itself as doodah, and a Doo-Dah Diner as well as a Doo-dah Deli   

Edited June 24, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Velk Kerang]

14 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

I worry a lot that as soon as the public has a new distraction it will be business as usual again with racism; both systematic and personal.

I can hope we're in a moment of change, but I also worry deeply.

I particularly worry that people will 'step back' when they start recognizing some of the costs. "this has to change" vs "but that is my thing that I don't want to see altered."

 

Here's a minor one that I know for a fact didn't skip notice of folks in SL as a 'test of the waters'... We have a region now named 'doodah'.

Some will argue that is a common phrase of no particular meaning. But when that region came out there were some folks singing a certain song in their heads from a racist Disney movie... 'zippity doo-dah', a Minstrel song purportedly based on the song 'Zip C***'...

Folks where talking up wanting a house on that region because of that name...

This just popped into my head because I was sitting here reading this:

https://www.sfgate.com/sf-culture/article/Its-inspiration-is-so-racist-Disney-s-buried-it-15350268.php

- The only Disney film to start getting protested before it was even released. Actually maybe even just the only Disney film to ever get protested, far as I know.

 

Why put that in here. I think it's one example of 'tiny costs' people will consider and then find they are unwilling to pay.

The arguments for why 'this or that thing are not actually racist' will very rapidly begin to overwhelm the calls for change - which is what has always happened in the past.

People's attachment to a thing blinds them to the impact it has on others.

- and that is the 'horse' the movement will eventually die on. Not on massive changes that are easy to see, but on all the little tiny insults that folks decide 'don't matter' but eventually add up to mountains.

That's where I feel this will all go in the long run. Some of the tiny costs will get paid, but eventually people will just tire of it, because there are actually so many of them out there... and they all seem "harmless"...

 

I remember that film. It didn't really scream racism to me at the time probably because it was different times back then and no one really thought twice about it. Just the same as no one thought twice about Richard Pryor slinging a buffet of racial slurs towards white people in every single one of his comedy acts. Given this movie was around 1948 I am surprised to learn it even got protested at all when the world had so much other more important events going on at the time. What I am finding disturbing in this day and age is the BLM mob mentality of some. I won't say everybody, but some. Where behavior such as this is not only tolerated, but promoted. It's reverse racism basically in a nut shell. Now take Skai Jackson for example since Disney was mentioned. She's been running unchecked and engaging in activities that not only would anyone else would have had their account banned for they also would have been brought up on charges. Now it has escalated to doxxing kids and their real life personal information is being leaked out all over the internet. I have personally seen her do it. Now I might be able to give her a pass on the immaturity given her age, but what mind boggles me the most is that so called ADULTS who follow in line and basically endorse this type of behavior. Actions like this does nothing to stop racism. It promotes it.

 

 

 

 

Now we have people crossing the line and tearing down historical monuments they have absolutely no right to.

Mark my words people. If this mob mentality continues the BLM will ignite a race war and a lot of innocent people are going to die. Don't take my word for it though. Just don't cry when the bullets start to fly either. lol😎

Edited June 24, 2020 by Velk Kerang
Corrections.

[Luna Bliss]

I found this article interesting at the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) website, revealing many groups I haven't heard of who are attempting to change racial injustice:

https://www.aclu.org/blog/racial-justice/race-and-criminal-justice/how-black-lives-matter-changed-way-americans-fight

How Black Lives Matter Changed the Way Americans Fight for Freedom

"What gets referred to as “the Black Lives Matter movement” is, in actuality, the collective labor of a wide range of Black liberation organizations, each which their own distinct histories. These organizations include groups like the Black Youth Project 100, the Dream Defenders, Assata’s Daughters, the St. Louis Action council, Millennial Activists United, and the Organization for Black Struggle, to name just a few.

Collectively, since 2013, these organizers have effected significant change locally and nationally, including the ousting of high-profile corrupt prosecutors."

Edited June 24, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, Velk Kerang said:

 

Now we have people crossing the line and tearing down historical monuments they have absolutely no right to.

I'm not going to say whether the defacement of property is right or wrong but I still don't care.   If certain items can be moved to a museum, then move them but don't expect me to care.  

Though do I hate German people for what they did to the Polish people?  No, I don't count the people who are living today as the actual WWI Nazi or Nordic Fascist regimes.  

There are many TV shows the Asians protest too as being a stereotype of a person that does not really exist.  And, they're right.  It was a stereotype but that doesn't mean it wasn't demeaning either.

Any idea how we can do away with Polish jokes though?  Should I blame the Germans here?  The Wiki eludes to the fact I should because they were people trying to justify murder with the jokes.  I mean does anyone really understand that?  Trying to justify murder with jokes?

 

POLISH JOKES:  

Some of the early 20th century Polish jokes might have been told originally before World War II in disputed border-regions such as Silesia, suggesting that Polish jokes did not originate in Nazi Germany, but rather much earlier as an outgrowth of regional jokes rooted in historical discrimination of Poles in German ruled areas, at least since XVIIIth century partitions of Poland, and since the end of XIXth century actively pursued by government backed German Eastern Marches Society, resulting in social class differences.^[3] Nonetheless, these jokes were later fuelled by ethnic slurs disseminated by German warlords and National Socialist propaganda that attempted to justify the Nazi crimes against ethnic Poles by presenting them as dirty and relegating them as inferior on the basis of not being German.^[4]

Edited June 24, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, Velk Kerang said:

Now we have people crossing the line and tearing down historical monuments they have absolutely no right to.

Mark my words people. If this mob mentality continues the BLM will ignite a race war and a lot of innocent people are going to die. Don't take my word for it though. Just don't cry when the bullets start to fly either. lol😎

There isn't going to be a race war.. The country could never get that many people on the same page that would actually have the nads to pull it off..  There is a lot of gabbers on the net..  All net no nads..hehehehe

When the election is over and everyone has what they want or didn't get what they wanted from the results of the election.. Things will be surrounding that and the whole circus starts all over again building up for the 2 year election and then gaining steam for the 4 year,like always..

The media will control the pace and the direction like always. Soon as a story with more steam comes along, this will be yesterdays news and they will be doing what they always do..Acting like they give a crap.. like always..

Americas attention span is short, especially nowadays with LATE BREAKING NEWS!! changing as fast as a Jason Borne Shaky cam fight..

Look, no news got through when Trump went to where ever it was he went to this past weekend.. yet My home town got shot up to hell..

Just like the Honey Badger, Media Don't give a Sh*T..

We think all this steam is getting gained right now.. It's going to be short term results,like always..

Real Change comes from within, and it takes time building our peoples up to be stronger..

If we waited for government to make change, it would never happen..change comes from within by electing the right people and having choices of good candidates..not these recycled from the system used Dinosaurs of the old world that are out of touch and kissing any Butt that will listen to them..

Why in the world would I trust any rich politician on either side to understand what's going on in Chicago's inner city? They wouldn't..

You might have race spats, but there won't be a war.. That's just media and net jabber.

 

Edited to add: Sorry, I kind of went all over the board there, But a lot of stuff just kept popping in my head as I went on..

it happens sometimes.

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Ceka Cianci

[Luna Bliss]

29 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

The Wiki eludes to the fact I should because they were people trying to justify murder with the jokes.  I mean does anyone really understand that?  Trying to justify murder with jokes?

They are attempting to label another group as inferior so they can justify doing whatever they want with them. The use of jokes to support their position, get others to laugh at another and feel certain groups as inferior, is secondary.

Most people have a conscience, at least somewhat, and we can only hurt another if we feel it's justified -- hence we make the other 'bad' to justify whatever we want to do with them  (to reduce cognitive dissonance).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Edited June 24, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[FairreLilette]

16 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

There isn't going to be a race war..

I should have said, Ceka, and asked Velk how he might think I could go about doing away with Polish jokes WITHOUT a race war.  Because I don't want a race war.  There have been too many of those already as you can tell from my last post; been too many race wars already.

Let the property go, put it in a museum, but if it's demeaning, let it go and be put somewhere else and talk about what the problem is.  I think former President Obama suggested we have anti-hate speech laws.    

I think America should adopt an anti-hate speech law, though it's difficult I think with our protected freedom of speech, although I think hate speech should not be protected as part of free speech.  

But, it's time to talk about things and let some of these "things" go away; they are things and not people.    

Edited June 24, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Luna Bliss]

37 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Any idea how we can do away with Polish jokes though?  Should I blame the Germans here?

If this originated with Germany and lost lands X years ago, how in the world did the Polish jokes become a thing here?  Though I haven't seen many in recent years, they were common say 10 or 20 years ago in the US.

[Ceka Cianci]

17 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I should have said, Ceka, and asked Velk how he might think I could go about doing away with Polish jokes WITHOUT a race war.  Because I don't want a race war.  There have been too many of those already as you can tell from my last post; been too many race wars already.

Let the property go, put it in a museum, but if it's demeaning, let it go and be put somewhere else and talk about what the problem is.  I think former President Obama suggested we have anti-hate speech laws.    

I think America should adopt an anti-hate speech law, though it's difficult I think with our protected freedom of speech, although I think hate speech should not be protected as part of free speech.  

But, it's time to talk about things and let some of "things" these go away; they are things and not people.    

Honestly, I would much rather know who my enemy is than them being able to go more underground than they are..

All controlling speech would do is compress the situation more, not cure it..Might even make it worse and trigger more worse acts.. When, if someone were to say something in public, they may catch more flack from bystanders, which I've experienced first hand.. People are catching enough flack as it is for what they say just with getting their lives ruined..

The worst kind of hate, is the the hidden underground hate or the hate going on behind the back.. If someone say's something to me ,I want to be able to turn and see as clear as if a show light popped over their head..

 

I'm just gonna add this part since I forgot..

Saying something to me is one thing..But if they touch me, I'll throw down on them making them crap their pants where they stand..In a heart beat.. I kid you not..

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Ceka Cianci

[Pixie Kobichenko]

9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

If this originated with Germany and lost lands X years ago, how in the world did the Polish jokes become a thing here?  Though I haven't seen many in recent years, they were common say 10 or 20 years ago in the US.

https://slate.com/culture/2014/03/polish-jokes-why-every-country-has-one-and-why-only-americans-joke-about-lawyers.html

[kali Wylder]

Every ethnic group that has migrated to the USA has been Jeered and Feared by the ones who came before.  It's the way the elite have always kept the proletariat down by keeping them bickering amongst themselves. The *fill in the ehtnic group* are stealing your jobs, corrupting your youth, spreading disease, you name it.... just keep hating your neighbor so you don't figure out who the real enemy is.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, kali Wylder said:

Every ethnic group that has migrated to the USA has been Jeered and Feared by the ones who came before.  It's the way the elite have always kept the proletariat down by keeping them bickering amongst themselves. The *fill in the ehtnic group* are stealing your jobs, corrupting your youth, spreading disease, you name it.... just keep hating your neighbor so you don't figure out who the real enemy is.

Yes, I guess I just have the missing back story of an influx of Polish people migrating here, but it does make sense given WW2 and dispossessed peoples.

[FairreLilette]

22 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

If this originated with Germany and lost lands X years ago, how in the world did the Polish jokes become a thing here?  Though I haven't seen many in recent years, they were common say 10 or 20 years ago in the US.

Some Germans immigrated to America.  There were German towns also in some states like New York where the Polish towns, Irish towns, Italian towns were.   But, in the WASP culture, it was the fact the Poles, the Italians and the Irish are mostly Catholic as to why the put downs.  

However, I've stated on this forum my Mom was the 8th Wonder of the World.  She was Jeopardy champion of the world, crossword puzzle champion of the world, Scrabble champion of the world.  My Mom was absolutely a genius.   My oldest sister is too.  Straight A student her whole life; graduated with honors on the Dean's list.  Two of the most amazing people and thinkers I've met in my entire life were in my own family.  So, the jokes about Polish people being stupid are the lamest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.  It is absolutely not true that Polish people are dumb.  

My Mom and my sister I could very rightly both call the 8th Wonder of the World, two very brilliant ladies.  

Edited June 24, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Janet Voxel]

Nobody thinks its strange that media coverage has died down since the rioting and looting stopped? There are still protests going on all over the US and the world and they're larger than a Trump rally. Nobody thinks that's strange?

[Alwin Alcott]

1 minute ago, Janet Voxel said:

Nobody thinks its strange that media coverage has died down since the rioting and looting stopped? There are still protests going on all over the US and the world and they're larger than a Trump rally. Nobody thinks that's strange?

not strange... means you'r old news.. next hype is around the corner

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

So, the jokes about Polish people being stupid are the lamest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.  It is absolutely not true that Polish people are dumb.  

 

But like the statues, the jokes are "things" so maybe let them go too? I've heard the same jokes with the focus being on people of differing nationalities. My family experienced put downs after immigrating to Canada too, so this really isn't something solely experienced by a small minority whether black, white, red or yellow.

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Nobody thinks its strange that media coverage has died down since the rioting and looting stopped? There are still protests going on all over the US and the world and they're larger than a Trump rally. Nobody thinks that's strange?

I did start to notice this, albeit at a more subconscious level.  I happened upon a news story at a more obscure place regarding major protests, and wondered why I wasn't seeing much coverage of protests anymore at main news sources.  You're right, it's only news if it's extreme or violent, and this makes it unfair coverage and paints a very unfair picture of protests.

[Ceka Cianci]

6 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Nobody thinks its strange that media coverage has died down since the rioting and looting stopped? There are still protests going on all over the US and the world and they're larger than a Trump rally. Nobody thinks that's strange?

It's very on par with the media, and social media..

When their clicks start to go down, they start looking for fuel.. Same with politicians.. You just can't trust them or the medias..

where is Mitt Romney after that one day?

He's sniffing around just like the media is for his next pandering moment that goes nation wide..

 

 

[Janet Voxel]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I did start to notice this, albeit at a more subconscious level.  I happened upon a news story at a more obscure place regarding major protests, and wondered why I wasn't seeing much coverage of protests anymore at main news sources.  You're right, it's only news if it's extreme or violent, and this makes it unfair coverage and paints a very unfair picture of protests.

Welp....there goes the "Liberal Media" angle.

[FairreLilette]

7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

But like the statues, the jokes are "things" so maybe let them go too? I've heard the same jokes with the focus being on people of differing nationalities. My family experienced put downs after immigrating to Canada too, so this really isn't something solely experienced by a small minority whether black, white, red or yellow.

We do, we do.  I spoke about my Mom and sister in my post above.  Living with two brilliant ladies, trust me, I know Polish people are not dumb.  We all have a brain just like anyone else, although my Mom and oldest sister are genius level.  

I was trying to impress upon Pussycat and others we do need to let some of these things go like water off a duck's back because even in the song by The Beatles "Revolution" John writes "we'd all love to change the world".  We cannot change the whole world, but hate speech, um, I'm not so sure it should be a protected speech, that doesn't mean we should let it ruin our lives because there are real friends we can find in this world.  

Still, I think some of things should be retired to a museum to talk about the full history and not a tainted one.  

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Luna Bliss]

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

My family experienced put downs after immigrating to Canada too, so this really isn't something solely experienced by a small minority whether black, white, red or yellow.

Is what Blacks endure or have endured in the past the same as what you endured as a foreigner in Canada, in every way, aside from jokes?

[kali Wylder]

13 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Nobody thinks its strange that media coverage has died down since the rioting and looting stopped? There are still protests going on all over the US and the world and they're larger than a Trump rally. Nobody thinks that's strange?

The media is owned by the 1%.  I'm not surprised at all.  Outraged, yes. Surprised? no.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

We do, we do.  I spoke about my Mom and sister in my post above.  Living with two brilliant ladies, trust me, I know Polish people are not dumb.  We all have a brain just like anyone else, although my Mom and oldest sister are genius level.  

I was trying to impress upon Pussycat and others we do need to let some of these things go like water off a duck's back because even in the song by The Beatles "Revolution" John writes "we'd all love to change the world".  We cannot change the whole world, but hate speech, um, I'm not so sure it should be a protected speech, that doesn't mean we shouldn't let it ruin our lives because there are real friends we can find in this world.  

Still, I think some of things should be retired to a museum to talk about the full history and not a tainted one.  

 

I'd rather a truthful history, taint or not, then one rewritten to sound better.