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HAPPY JUNETEENTH & THE PROGRESS OF BLM


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19 minutes ago, Storm Clarence said:

On the Juneteenth and Fathers day weekend over 150 black men shot in Chicago. 

Where is the outrage?  WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE!

We are killing our children.

I think (sadly) most news nationwide this weekend was overshadowed by the concentration on Trump.  But the news stories are out there.

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And we are done.  Ladies and Gentlemen this is now the 3rd thread started on this issue.  While we appreciate that everyone has very passionate opinions, the golden rule is probably best followed

This is a text that a friend forwarded to me two weeks ago. And a lot more seems to have happened since then.. The protests in America and across the world have upset and scared a lot of people.

Removing a statue from public display, particularly if it's simply being moved from one place to another, is not the same as erasing every memory of that statue's subject from history. I doubt th

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1 hour ago, Dano Seale said:

Anyhow, seeing as you're diverting from the fact that blacks can be just as racist as whites and everyone needs to work together with honesty before anything gets changed

It's not a fair comparison. Blacks have been the victim of systemic racism where oppressors had the full backing of governmental and societal powers to apply their racism. The power these oppressors had was far, far greater (and still is to a degree) than what happens when any individual Black person expresses prejudice against you.  

We are talking about racism, systemic racism, and you are describing prejudice.  Big difference.  When you compare situations inadequately (and you seem to be a master at this) you minimize the position of the side that has truly experienced the far greater harm.

If you can acknowledge the far greater harm to Blacks, both yesterday and still today, then there is hope for this honesty and a chance to work together that you speak of.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's not a fair comparison. Blacks have been the victim of systemic racism where they had the full backing of governmental and societal powers to apply their prejudice. The power they had was far, far greater (and still is to a degree) than what happens when any individual Black person might be prejudiced against you.   

We are talking about racism, systemic racism, and you are describing prejudice.  Big difference.  When you compare situations inadequately (and you seem to be a master at this) you minimize the position of the side that has truly experienced the far greater harm.

If you can acknowledge the far greater harm to Blacks, both yesterday and still today, then there is hope for this honesty and a chance to work together that you speak of.

I’ve sort of been sitting on this, not sure if I should bring it up, cause of complaints of veering off topic when ugly truths get pointed out.  But I will pick up where Luna’s post ended.  Nothing even remotely similar to the Tuskegee Experiments has ever happened to white folks.  https://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/index.html   
 

I mean it’s pretty much clear cut Rage Against the Machine.  Those in power have done horrible things for hundreds of years, to those they control. And but but but-ing that blacks do bad too gives the appearance of an opinion that it’s all a wash.

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16 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

And but but but-ing that blacks do bad too gives the appearance of an opinion that it’s all a wash.

Worthy of a signature line..

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12 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

I’ve sort of been sitting on this, not sure if I should bring it up, cause of complaints of veering off topic when ugly truths get pointed out. 
 

The interconnectedness of so many things really shouldn't cause any worry. Health, finance, and history all have a place here and you can discuss one thing with it leading to something else. 

 

Just have to be mindful that there are some that would rather not discuss or even see these things.

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17 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Health, finance, and history all have a place here and you can discuss one thing with it leading to something else. 

 

Just have to be mindful that there are some that would rather not discuss or even see these things.

I don't want to discuss Maths.

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https://www.themix.net/2020/06/aunt-jemimas-great-grandson-is-furious-that-her-legacy-is-being-erased/

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“This is an injustice for me and my family. This is part of my history, sir,” Larnell Evans Sr. told Patch. “The racism they talk about, using images from slavery, that comes from the other side — white people. This company profits off images of our slavery. And their answer is to erase my great-grandmother’s history. A black female. … It hurts.”

Former enslaved woman Nancy Green debuted the first “Aunt Jemima” at the Chicago’s World’s Fair in 1893. Green was a cook who worked in the South Side of the city. She was hired to wear a headscarf and an apron while serving pancakes to those visiting the fair.

She continued to portray the character of “Aunt Jemima” until her death in 1923. Then, Evans said his grandmother Anna Short Harrington took her place. 

More at the link.

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The comments tho'....

Can't say I'm sad to see a Mammie go. The pancakes weren't all that good anyway, but apparently it was her recipe too (the second Aunt Jemima) of which she didn't receive a dime in royalties. To me that's the real story, I think he's a little misguided thinking people look at that image and think "Gee, I wonder if Aunt Jemima ever got her royalties?"

 

 

 

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image.png.2c71aab9c19182eb008827885f45087a.png

copied from my FB timeline:

Came across this today:  Albert Einstein
Read this slowly and let it sink in.  Look at the faces of these beautiful engaged students.    And consider this brilliant conscious voice, world renown physicist in this powerful (1946!!) photo -- that WAS NOT heard or seen in 1946:
In September 1946, Albert Einstein called racism America’s “worst disease.” Earlier that year, he told students and faculty at Lincoln University in Pennsylvania, the oldest Black college in the Western world, that racial segregation was “not a disease of colored people, but a disease of white people, adding, “I willl not remain silent about it.”  
When Albert Einstein moved to America, he was disappointed to see how black people were being treated. Even in his new hometown of Princeton, he observed separation of the white and black societies. Einstein thought of segregation as “unacceptable.”
"There are prejudices of which I as a Jew am clearly conscious, but they are unimportant in comparison with the attitude of the ‘whites’ toward their fellow-citizens of darker complexion.   The more I feel an American, the more this situation pains me. I can escape the feeling of complicity in it only by speaking out. Your ancestors dragged these black people from their homes by force and in the white man’s quest for wealth and an easy life they have been ruthlessly suppressed and exploited, degraded into slavery”
Albert Einstein, very rarely accepted honorary doctorates but he did so for Lincoln University, a small historically black college in Pennsylvania in 1946. He also gave a lecture before a small group of students who are seen with him in the picture.
After 70 years, photo of Einstein's visit to Lincoln surfaced when a woman appeared in "Antiques Roadshow."
Her husband, who was a photographer, was present in that classroom.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein

 

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On 6/21/2020 at 11:09 PM, Ashlyn Voir said:

I’m sure a lot of white people would agree with the Tom in the video, tbh.

Edit: Okay, so let me explain why I wrote the above comment. This dude is supposed to be so educated and such, but what he fails to mention is black people don’t disproportionately kill blacks and a higher number than any other race. 

Well from what I am reading statistically, Black on Black killings per 100,000 of population, are 7 times what White on White killings are (20.1/100,000 vs 2.7/100,000) and even 3 times the Hispanic rate of 6.4/100,000. That strikes me as significantly disproportionate. https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2019/12/22/the-need-to-discuss-black-on-black-crime/

Even so, it isn't what that segment was about but rather the Anti-Racism agenda as it is currently being posited in 2020. It was pulled from a much longer debate you can find here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzPKk19t3Kw

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Yes, there are white people who have been killed by cops and I’m not saying it’s right either. But, best believe those people still benefitted from a white supremacist infrastructure at the end of the day. Let’s keep it 100. 

Benefiting how? A nicer coffin? We rarely ever hear of white people getting killed by cops even though as pointed out they do, so that "white supremacist infrastructure" seems to be failing white folks. 

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Edit 2: I’m just tired of this media scrutiny against black people or always painting us in such a negative way. And, even reading the comments people still enforce the stereotypes including other black people. Black people don’t just stare down educated black people and call them Aunt/Uncle Tom’s for no reason or because they’re educated. It’s a lot of black people who are like that they think they’re so much better then the rest.

Interesting you should say that as at least one Black speaker I listened to mentioned how little most of the Black communities value an education going so far as to relate that when he received his BA and Phd diplomas, only one of his parents even showed up but when a local gang member was released from prison after serving time for a rape and murder, the whole block turned out for a major party.

One has to wonder what sort of message that conveys to young Black people as to what is of value in Black culture. Compound that with the fact that such an educational achievement will significantly bolster both the self worth and self esteem of such a person that to those lacking the same, it might appear these Aunt/Uncle Tom’s seem to think they are better whereas in actual fact, it is just part and parcel of the changes that happen to someone pursuing and achieving their goals.

In any case, here is another Black speaker I ran across who I think has a positive message regarding the progress of systematic anti-racism even in the past 20 years.

 

Edited by Arielle Popstar
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I always loved this song by Tracy Chapman, and it's so apropos for these times...

 

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23 hours ago, kali Wylder said:

I can escape the feeling of complicity in it only by speaking out. Your ancestors dragged these black people from their homes by force and in the white man’s quest for wealth and an easy life they have been ruthlessly suppressed and exploited, degraded into slavery”

I had been reading more into the WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) culture that had been prevalent in America for centuries.  The WASP culture essentially believed that doing menial work aka drudgery was beneath them and thus they had servants to do the menial work and/or took slaves or bought slaves.  The WASP culture also believed that "man" had exceeded menial work (drudgery) and that is why so many of the WASP culture believed in their wealth.  Their wealth represented an escape from a life of drudgery for them and their children.  The WASP culture believed that living a life of book learning, music and art was the only way to live.   Though much of the WASP cultures art and music was thought to be passionless, mindless.

It's interesting to note too that the WASP culture was the culture that the counter-culture generation of the 1960's rose up against.  The WASP culture was the establishment at the time of the Civil Rights Movement and the people of the counter-culture generation were also known as people who were anti-establishment.  

You can hear Bob Dylan rail against the establishment, the WASP culture in his songs "Ballad of a Thin Man", "Like a Rolling Stone", and "Positively 4th Street".  For anyone interested in understanding more about the establishment and the anti-establishment during the 1960's, I'd highly recommend listening to these three songs by Bob Dylan.  The WASP culture was also seen at the time the counter-culture was rising up as a passionless people, you can hear Dylan address this in his line "You say 'how are you', good luck, but you don't mean it".  It was a very fake facade of a culture that only cared about status and it oppressed many people, especially Blacks.  Also, you can hear John Lennon riling against the establishment in the song "Revolution" by The Beatles.  John mocking the idea that a "contribution" (a monetary donation) would make a difference and John insisting rather "we'd like to free your mind instead".   

 

Edited by FairreLilette
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I spent a little time learning more about the Black Panthers, and efforts to reduce racism back in the 60's compared to what's going on today. I discovered there's even a newer Black Panthers group. I have to admit I've held a negative perception of the Black Panthers which is not justified, despite their imperfections.

Not about the Black Panthers, but a good article that ties some things together for me:

https://glc.yale.edu/news/whats-going

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I worry a lot that as soon as the public has a new distraction it will be business as usual again with racism; both systematic and personal.

I can hope we're in a moment of change, but I also worry deeply.

I particularly worry that people will 'step back' when they start recognizing some of the costs. "this has to change" vs "but that is my thing that I don't want to see altered."

 

Here's a minor one that I know for a fact didn't skip notice of folks in SL as a 'test of the waters'... We have a region now named 'doodah'.

Some will argue that is a common phrase of no particular meaning. But when that region came out there were some folks singing a certain song in their heads from a racist Disney movie... 'zippity doo-dah', a Minstrel song purportedly based on the song 'Zip C***'...

Folks where talking up wanting a house on that region because of that name...

This just popped into my head because I was sitting here reading this:

https://www.sfgate.com/sf-culture/article/Its-inspiration-is-so-racist-Disney-s-buried-it-15350268.php

- The only Disney film to start getting protested before it was even released. Actually maybe even just the only Disney film to ever get protested, far as I know.

 

Why put that in here. I think it's one example of 'tiny costs' people will consider and then find they are unwilling to pay.

The arguments for why 'this or that thing are not actually racist' will very rapidly begin to overwhelm the calls for change - which is what has always happened in the past.

People's attachment to a thing blinds them to the impact it has on others.

- and that is the 'horse' the movement will eventually die on. Not on massive changes that are easy to see, but on all the little tiny insults that folks decide 'don't matter' but eventually add up to mountains.

That's where I feel this will all go in the long run. Some of the tiny costs will get paid, but eventually people will just tire of it, because there are actually so many of them out there... and they all seem "harmless"...

 

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21 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

I worry a lot that as soon as the public has a new distraction it will be business as usual again with racism; both systematic and personal.

I can hope we're in a moment of change, but I also worry deeply.

I particularly worry that people will 'step back' when they start recognizing some of the costs. "this has to change" vs "but that is my thing that I don't want to see altered."

 

Here's a minor one that I know for a fact didn't skip notice of folks in SL as a 'test of the waters'... We have a region now named 'doodah'.

Some will argue that is a common phrase of no particular meaning. But when that region came out there were some folks singing a certain song in their heads from a racist Disney movie... 'zippity doo-dah', a Minstrel song purportedly based on the song 'Zip C***'...

Folks where talking up wanting a house on that region because of that name...

This just popped into my head because I was sitting here reading this:

https://www.sfgate.com/sf-culture/article/Its-inspiration-is-so-racist-Disney-s-buried-it-15350268.php

- The only Disney film to start getting protested before it was even released. Actually maybe even just the only Disney film to ever get protested, far as I know.

 

Why put that in here. I think it's one example of 'tiny costs' people will consider and then find they are unwilling to pay.

The arguments for why 'this or that thing are not actually racist' will very rapidly begin to overwhelm the calls for change - which is what has always happened in the past.

People's attachment to a thing blinds them to the impact it has on others.

- and that is the 'horse' the movement will eventually die on. Not on massive changes that are easy to see, but on all the little tiny insults that folks decide 'don't matter' but eventually add up to mountains.

That's where I feel this will all go in the long run. Some of the tiny costs will get paid, but eventually people will just tire of it, because there are actually so many of them out there... and they all seem "harmless"...

 

If they had named it zippity, yeah, I'd agree, but what came to mind to me, when I heard doo-dah was "Bet my money on a bobtail nag, doo-dah, doo-dah, Bet my money on a bobtail nag, somebody bet on the bay."

Now mind you, i don't disagree that song of the south was horribly racist as were the crows in Dumbo the Elephant. And I don't dis-agree with your theory about the little things. But I don't see the racism in Doodah.  Admittedly, I could be less aware than you.  I'm trying to be more aware. 

I guess we just don't know what was in the mind of the person who thought up Doodah.  Could be racist, could be harmless. ymmv

ETA: If the name Doodah offends, then, really, I have no stake in keeping it.

Edited by kali Wylder
thought I should add this
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2 minutes ago, kali Wylder said:

If they had named it zippity, yeah, I'd agree, but what came to mind to me, when I heard doo-dah was "Bet my money on a bobtail nag, doo-dah, doo-dah, Bet my money on a bobtail nag, somebody bet on the bay."

Now mind you, i don't disagree that song of the south was horribly racist as were the crows in Dumbo the Elephant. And I don't dis-agree with your theory about the little things. But I don't see the racism in Doodah.  Admittedly, I could be less aware than you.  I'm trying to be more aware. 

I guess we just don't know what was in the mind of the person who thought up Doodah.  Could be racist, could be harmless. ymmv

I thought the same about the inspiration for the region name, but also note that that song is troublesome, too. https://www.liveabout.com/camptown-races-stephen-foster-1322494#:~:text=The original title of the,try to make some money.

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57 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I thought the same about the inspiration for the region name, but also note that that song is troublesome, too. https://www.liveabout.com/camptown-races-stephen-foster-1322494#:~:text=The original title of the,try to make some money.

I bet it wouldn’t be difficult to get that region renamed.

A couple tweets aimed at Ebbe might even do the trick. I can’t imagine it’s terribly hard to rename a region and it would be a good way to show the residents that they’re listening.

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