Sylvia Tamalyn Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Pixie Kobichenko said: But back to the rally- the Tulsa mayor, GT Bynum did not want this to happen in Tulsa. Injunctions were filed to stop it. One was filed as an appeal to move it to an outdoor venue in light of the virus. Just the audacity to plan it originally on the Juneteenth observance day, coupled with the 99th anniversary of the Black Wall Street Murders. Just. Wow. I live ten miles maybe as the crow flies from the BOK center where the rally will be taking place. I don’t know anyone up here other than my neighbors since I am mostly home bound. We are collectively holding our breath in fear of what might happen today with 18,000 in the arena & a projected 40,000 in the streets outside. CNN already aired footage of people outside the venue yesterday trying to antagonize the reporters physically & screaming at the camera. Ive read on local news pages on social media where people are claiming they are from out of state in Missouri, Kansas & Arkansas who plan on coming downtown fully armed (I suspect Boogaloo movements supporters) who plan on God knows what ... well I’ll just upload it. It’s the comments in a thread that the Tulsa PD posted in regards to curfews & security around the arena for today. This thread is from Thursday. I hope things go smoothly today but I’m scared it’s going to be bad. I live in the area as well, and share your worries. Stay safe. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie Kobichenko Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said: I live in the area as well, and share your worries. Stay safe. Thanks- you too. (I’m in Kiefer & not going anywhere this weekend). It just occurred to me that where all these people are standing at waiting to get into the rally is actually the Greenwood district where Black Wall Street once stood. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashlyn Voir Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Unfortunately what many don’t know is the fact when after the Emancipation Proclamation was issued, many black people were still very much slaves even after that fact. Abraham Lincoln wasn’t some white abolitionist and he didn’t see us on par with whites anyway. I always hated the fact that back when I was a kid people used to act like he was some huge hero for black people. In Texas they didn’t even realize they were free until years later. And, at what expense when basically Jim Crow wasn’t far off? And, there’s now this veil over so many issues to make it seem as though it’s something it’s not. But, not only affecting America but all over the world with anti-black racism. 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) This is a pretty good read on the Emancipation Proclamation if anyone is interested.. it's not really long at all and gives some good details. it's a good read.. Emancipation Proclamation Edited June 20, 2020 by Ceka Cianci 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Redstar Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 6 hours ago, Pixie Kobichenko said: Democrat & Republican are just a labels. Depending on what historical source you go to you will see a slow change in party platforms. Some attribute William Jennings Bryan (D) who wanted to expand federal powers. Or you can look to FDR (D) & his New Deal. It wasn’t an instantaneous event. It was a progression. The parties went from Democrats & A hands off- let people & states govern themselves with Republicans wanting big government oversights & controls on a federal level to a flip flop from the 1860s thru to FDRs terms. As time goes by party affiliations will become less important as the terms liberal & conservative overtake policy making & voting. how many "confederates' are left? seems there are those that want to erase every memory of that from history, so then why not erase the word "democratic Party' from history? times changes and people and ideas change. how are monuments to confederate generals harmful to anyone alive today? they represent a snapshot in time. not a pleasant moment in time, but it is a part of America and its past. if we insist to purge every reminder of past wrongs done by America or Americans, then we need to purge everything, not a selective set of things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jackson Redstar said: how many "confederates' are left? seems there are those that want to erase every memory of that from history, so then why not erase the word "democratic Party' from history? times changes and people and ideas change. how are monuments to confederate generals harmful to anyone alive today? they represent a snapshot in time. not a pleasant moment in time, but it is a part of America and its past. if we insist to purge every reminder of past wrongs done by America or Americans, then we need to purge everything, not a selective set of things Removing a statue from public display, particularly if it's simply being moved from one place to another, is not the same as erasing every memory of that statue's subject from history. I doubt there are many monuments to Oliver Cromwell standing in Ireland, but I can assure you that they've not forgotten him there. 7 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvia Tamalyn Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 21 minutes ago, Jackson Redstar said: how many "confederates' are left? seems there are those that want to erase every memory of that from history, so then why not erase the word "democratic Party' from history? times changes and people and ideas change. how are monuments to confederate generals harmful to anyone alive today? they represent a snapshot in time. not a pleasant moment in time, but it is a part of America and its past. if we insist to purge every reminder of past wrongs done by America or Americans, then we need to purge everything, not a selective set of things Books are a great way to learn history. Give it a try sometime. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jackson Redstar said: how are monuments to confederate generals harmful to anyone alive today? they represent a snapshot in time. Statues symbolize people and values we are proud of, and we honor them with permanent representation in public spaces. The honoring of slavery, or of those who felt the notion of slavery or the subjugation of others a worthy value, should not be advertised through statues as an American value. Really, you should read some of the nasty journals of Confederate soldiers, describing how they were on a mission from God to put the "Negro" in their rightful place, below the White man. This was the primary mission of the Confederacy, and we should not honor it in any way, shape, or form. Edited June 20, 2020 by Luna Bliss 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said: Books are a great way to learn history. Give it a try sometime. Just need to be mindful that history is written by the victors and only tells one side of the story. You have to look at more than 2 sides. There are more than 2 sides to a coin. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Ashlyn Voir said: Unfortunately what many don’t know is the fact when after the Emancipation Proclamation was issued, many black people were still very much slaves even after that fact. Abraham Lincoln wasn’t some white abolitionist and he didn’t see us on par with whites anyway. I always hated the fact that back when I was a kid people used to act like he was some huge hero for black people. In Texas they didn’t even realize they were free until years later. And, at what expense when basically Jim Crow wasn’t far off? And, there’s now this veil over so many issues to make it seem as though it’s something it’s not. But, not only affecting America but all over the world with anti-black racism. I Am Not Your Negro is free to watch if you have Prime @ Amazon until July 3rd. I haven't watched it yet, but I know James Baldwin (they reference him a lot in the clip you posted) is great for articulating the ongoing struggle between Blacks & Whites. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 I am really liking this co-founder of BLM, Patrisse Cullors. The more I read about her the more impressed I am. She says: "Referencing the recent killings of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery, Cullors said, "this conversation about anti-Black racism is not just for the Black community, it's for every single one of us. Now is the opportunity for white folks across gender, sexual orientation to stand up for Black lives. We need everybody right now." " https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/pride/9401995/patrisse-cullors-urges-white-people-to-stand-up-for-black-lives-we-need-everybody-right-now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 If one really wishes to know how justice is administered in a country, one does not question the policemen, the lawyers, the judges, or the protected members of the middle class. One goes to the unprotected - those, precisely, who need the law's protection most! - and listens to their testimony. James A. Baldwin I imagine one of the reasons people cling to their hates so stubbornly is because they sense, once hate is gone, they will be forced to deal with pain. James A. Baldwin The world is before you, and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in. James A. Baldwin Artists are here to disturb the peace. James A. Baldwin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvia Tamalyn Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 37 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said: Just need to be mindful that history is written by the victors and only tells one side of the story. You have to look at more than 2 sides. There are more than 2 sides to a coin. I totally agree. I just scratch my head at the ones who claim history is being "erased" by the removal of some offensive statues. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 I was on youtube a little while ago and came passed this video,which really I could relate to very much, because I remember doing so much research on the present and history.. Mainly to fill a void that I had felt in many areas of myself..The more I gathered the more I felt I was finding, my power.. I don't know what others will think of this, but I just have a powerful need to share it and hope that some find it useful and hopefully powerful.. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyssa Greymoon Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Jackson Redstar said: how many "confederates' are left? seems there are those that want to erase every memory of that from history, so then why not erase the word "democratic Party' from history? times changes and people and ideas change. how are monuments to confederate generals harmful to anyone alive today? they represent a snapshot in time. not a pleasant moment in time, but it is a part of America and its past. if we insist to purge every reminder of past wrongs done by America or Americans, then we need to purge everything, not a selective set of things Maybe we should put up monuments to Nazi war criminals and the Yamamoto Naval Air Station has a nice ring to it, don't you think? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie Kobichenko Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jackson Redstar said: how many "confederates' are left? seems there are those that want to erase every memory of that from history, so then why not erase the word "democratic Party' from history? times changes and people and ideas change. how are monuments to confederate generals harmful to anyone alive today? they represent a snapshot in time. not a pleasant moment in time, but it is a part of America and its past. if we insist to purge every reminder of past wrongs done by America or Americans, then we need to purge everything, not a selective set of things Statues & flags in public spaces are not required to educate or remember. If you have to ask how it is harmful to anyone around today, well, empathy for that isn’t something I can explain to you. Take a moment to learn about Germany after WW2, how they handled representation of Nazi ideology. edit: I am semi familiar with the liberation of Dachau. My fathers dad was in the 45th infantry, one of 3 army divisions that liberated the concentration camp. I had read this article in the past, & debated tacking this info on- but it discusses a man who has to deal with the atrocities his father committed as an SS trooper, & there is a short video about Dachau. (I say semi familiar because I am not trying to represent myself as an authority, just someone who wants to know more about my grandfather’s time in the war- which he never spoke about, not even when my father was growing up) https://www.dw.com/en/confronting-a-disturbing-truth-my-father-was-in-the-ss/a-53199086 Edited June 20, 2020 by Pixie Kobichenko 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 In Britain, because of our long imperial and colonial history, and our key role in the transatlantic slave trade, we have a huge collection of problematic statues, many of which were erected during the heyday of the Empire under Queen Victoria. There's a long and very thoughtful article here about the current campaign to remove some of our public statues, rename buildings and so on. The examples are all British, but the themes are common, I think, to the US and to other European countries. https://www.newstatesman.com/2020/06/history-wars 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 and keep your enemies closer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Dear god, Luna! You could at least hide that behind a spoiler tag for those of us who get nauseated by the sight of his face! Christ, that is an ugly man. Is that what it looks like when a body rots from the inside out? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie Kobichenko Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 I am happy to say that the projected crowd size was waaaaaaaaaaaay overestimated. No crowded streets outside the BOK, & the upper bowl inside the arena is barely not empty. Only one arrest so far & earlier today (tho that story deserves some looking into). I had a sincere & very real & I think legitimate fear of possible violence today. So glad that it appears that other than the rally becoming the landmark inaugural superspreader event that today will have went smoothly. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvia Tamalyn Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 11 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said: I am happy to say that the projected crowd size was waaaaaaaaaaaay overestimated. No crowded streets outside the BOK, & the upper bowl inside the arena is barely not empty. Only one arrest so far & earlier today (tho that story deserves some looking into). I had a sincere & very real & I think legitimate fear of possible violence today. So glad that it appears that other than the rally becoming the landmark inaugural superspreader event that today will have went smoothly. Same! Despite my unease about the virus, I admit I'm enjoying seeing alllll those empty seats as well as the empty "overflow" area outside. Glad to see so many people have more sense than Trump and his gang! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvia Tamalyn Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) Brad Parscale, Trump's campaign manager, is trying to spin it that violent protestors prevented people from attending the rally. Total lie. There has been no violence, and only the one arrest mentioned previously. I predict Parscale will get fired over this one. Meanwhile, here's a shot taken while Pence was speaking. As several have noted, they'd have gotten a better crowd if they'd billed this as a BLM rally. Edited June 21, 2020 by Sylvia Tamalyn 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie Kobichenko Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 16 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said: Brad Parscale, Trump's campaign manager, is trying to spin it that violent protestors prevented people from attending the rally. Total lie. There has been no violence, and only the one arrest mentioned previously. I predict Parscale will get fired over this one. Meanwhile, here's a shot taken while Pence was speaking. As several have noted, they'd have gotten a better crowd if they'd billed this as a BLM rally. It’s unreal how big the lies gets & it’s just accepted. There is a protest but it’s blocks away & in no way impeded entry. But even if it had- history proves that the phantom blockage could have been gassed to disperse the crowd a la The plaza between St. John's Church and Lafayette Park. Or arrested.... or shown on tv.... The lone arrest was a women in line to get in who was wearing a shirt that said “I can’t breathe”. Trump campaign-security didn’t want her there, & asked TPD to remove her. https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/tulsa-trump-rally-coverage-tulsa-police-release-statement-on-protester-arrest-6-trump-staffers-in/article_2e28adca-cb0e-58fc-b8db-7d61bf4ae02a.html 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritSparrow Skydancer Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) On 6/19/2020 at 2:34 PM, Luna Bliss said: Today is the day slavery ended in 1865, and now Juneteenth flags are flying in many states today - it appears BLM is doing some good! What have you seen that indicates BLM is helping bring awareness to important issues, or alleviate prejudice against Blacks or other People Of Color? Be good...no name calling! Stay on topic. The black people have been celebrating this for years. I must have missed your post last year about it. SINCE 1980 Edited June 21, 2020 by Tarina Sewell 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvia Tamalyn Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said: There is a protest but it’s blocks away & in no way impeded entry. But even if it had- history proves that the phantom blockage could have been gassed to disperse the crowd a la The plaza between St. John's Church and Lafayette Park. Or arrested.... or shown on tv.... 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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