What are some more of your pet peeves?

[Arielle Popstar]

7 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Rubbish. If you make a comment that many people find offensive, and your response to being told it's offensive is to make a sarcastic fauxpology and complain that the forum is over-sensitive and you don't like it, it's not "bullying" to suggest that the place may not be a fit for you. I was careful not to say "you aren't wanted here" because that's not true. I think it's fair to say that comments like that aren't wanted here, though, so if you want an appreciative audience for them, then yes, you are going to have to find somewhere else to make them. If we're talking about being welcoming, those kinds of comments aren't going to make people with autism feel wanted here.

Incidentally, why do I have to have autism in order to be offended by unkind remarks about autistic people? 

Her response to halebore Aeon was that she used it as a metaphor, which halebore and another autistic then accepted as such and did not take it as an insult to autistic people in general. Looking at the Urban dictionary I find the word "autist" is used metaphorically often enough to warrant an actual entry there. It isn't something I would consider using but seems to be part of the culture for younger people and gamers so fine. I'm not the language police on the S/L Forums so not my place to argue whether she needs to take it elsewhere.

Quote

Incidentally, why do I have to have autism in order to be offended by unkind remarks about autistic people? 

I would say by your posts the problem is moreso that not having autism you do not have the nuance to be able to determine when someone has explained why and how their seeming insult wasn't intended as such. If you going to accept it as an offence, should you also not be as ready to accept how it was intended and not how it was initially misunderstood?

[Arielle Popstar]

4 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

... said she to add her two cents after that episode had already passed...

My bad. I am a slow thinker and need time to process what I think and feel about certain topics. I try not to blurt out the first thing that comes to mind. That is why i prefer forums as opposed to media such as twitter as it just moves much too fast for me.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Arielle Popstar

[Arielle Popstar]

56 minutes ago, Orwar said:

      I'm pretty sick and tired of people playing with identity politics. Why should people be excluded from having an opinion just because they don't happen to be XYZ? 

  And again, no one speaks for everyone, I'm not in any way, shape or form a 'representative' of 'people with ADD and/or ASD'. And on that note - there's nothing that offends me more, on account of my mental conditions, than when people become aware of them and think that it's their place to speak for me and make excuses for me, especially when their understanding of them come off the back of a milk carton campaign to 'raise awareness about mental health issues'. I'm quite capable of speaking for myself, thank you very much.

So pointing to the contradictions of your post, I don't really know how to respond other than to point out that you seem to agree that we should allow Autistics to speak for themselves as to what they find offensive?

[AdminGirl]

19 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Her response to halebore Aeon was that she used it as a metaphor, which halebore and another autistic then accepted as such and did not take it as an insult to autistic people in general. Looking at the Urban dictionary I find the word "autist" is used metaphorically often enough to warrant an actual entry there. It isn't something I would consider using but seems to be part of the culture for younger people and gamers so fine. I'm not the language police on the S/L Forums so not my place to argue whether she needs to take it elsewhere.

I dunno, I can generally get behind what you're saying, which I believe is anti-bullying. But to accuse people of bullying when all they're doing is expressing the offense taken is a bit of a stretch.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by you highlighting the two people who were subsequently not offended, are you suggesting that that should determine how everyone else should feel about it? And just because you're satisfied with the urban dictionary definition, that all those who felt personally offended should no longer have a voice? And should they voice their opinion, then they become bullies?

I think to come close to bullying, there would be at least some unkindness expressed. The most there has been here is bluntness.

I've said this in my first post about this, that I personally don't think she meant it but my opinion does not govern what everyone else thinks or feel, and as others have said previously, no one speaks for them except for themselves.

[Lillith Hapmouche]

18 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

My bad. I am a slow thinker and need time to process what I think and feel about certain topics. I try not to blurt out the first thing that comes to mind.

K, I'll reply in about two days...

[Amina Sopwith]

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Her response to halebore Aeon was that she used it as a metaphor, which halebore and another autistic then accepted as such and did not take it as an insult to autistic people in general. Looking at the Urban dictionary I find the word "autist" is used metaphorically often enough to warrant an actual entry there. It isn't something I would consider using but seems to be part of the culture for younger people and gamers so fine. I'm not the language police on the S/L Forums so not my place to argue whether she needs to take it elsewhere.

If you're not the forum language police, why are you here telling me what I can't say?

No, it is not fine. It is fine not to like pointless conversations and to say so. It is not fine to emphasise your point by making a derogatory remark about autistic people, even if you are young. (I'm sorry, have you seen some of the terms on Urban Dictionary? You don't think a heck of a lot of them are swimming in racism, sexism, homophobia and all the rest of it? You think that because a word appears on Urban Dictionary, of all places, that makes it inoffensive?) 

It is especially not fine to defend such language by claiming that you didn't mean these people literally are autistic. When you say "It's ok to call them autistic because they're not really" or "It's ok to use the R word because they don't have a learning disability really", you are in fact saying that being autistic, or having a learning disability or whatever, is a terrible thing to be. That it would be insulting only if it were actually true. I can't believe I have to explain this. 

I don't wish to drag up the past, but we have had a couple of comparable incidents recently. (We lost a popular and much-loved forumite at least in part because of it.) It does seem, to me, that these forums generally have a blowback against offensive sentiments such as these. I think that's a good thing, personally.  The good news is, most people really are very forgiving if a person says, "Oh no, I didn't realise how offensive that was. I apologise, and consider me educated." 

If a person doesn't like that - if they explicitly say they don't like the atmosphere here because it's too sensitive or whatever - then yes, I might well suggest that the forum isn't a fit for them, because they want a response to these comments that they're not likely to get. There is a real difference between that and saying "Get lost, we hate you." And you say I have no sense of nuance?

 

21 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I would say by your posts the problem is moreso that not having autism you do not have the nuance to be able to determine when someone has explained why and how their seeming insult wasn't intended as such. If you going to accept it as an offence, should you also not be as ready to accept how it was intended and not how it was initially misunderstood?

I am sure it wasn't INTENDED to be offensive, but it clearly was, by nature of the fact that it has offended people. And the only possible misunderstanding here was not in people taking offence, but a person not understanding why it's offensive to use autism as an insult. It's really not a nuanced situation. It's quite overtly insensitive.

Anyway, this is the point where the well-intentioned person says, "I'm sorry, I didn't realise that was offensive but now I do." 

As it happens, though, you're right about one thing - I'm not the one who was insulted, so there's no need for anyone to apologise to me. What do you think of that "everyone and their grandmother" apology? 

And no, I don't need to have autism to take offence when someone insults autistic people. 

 

 

[AdminGirl]

Seeing support for minority groups is a good thing. They are the ones who are more prone to actual bullying. So I'll word it as a peeve to be on topic - lack of sensitivity and consideration towards minority groups and the disadvantaged. Sure, speaking up against it can be uncomfortable but it's nonetheless a good thing.

I'm sure there are many entries in urban dictionary that would excuse an offensive fat joke, but I wouldn't say that sh*t here to a bunch of strangers online unless I was prepared to get some backlash.

[Amina Sopwith]

19 minutes ago, AdminGirl said:

I'm sure there are many entries in urban dictionary that would excuse an offensive fat joke, but I wouldn't say that sh*t here to a bunch of strangers online unless I was prepared to get some backlash.

There are certainly a lot that go into gleeful descriptions of various horrible sex acts on women.

One could argue that Urban Dictionary, as an entity, is not responsible for the content and doesn't condone any of them; it's just a reference for words that exist and what they mean. One would be correct. The fact still remains that just because a word is in there doesn't mean it's not offensive. And as Orwar pointed out, the word itself is less important than the context in which it was used. 
 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I'm not the language police on the S/L Forums so not my place to argue whether she needs to take it elsewhere.

While I don't enjoy "piling on," I do just want to add to the excellent things Amina and AdminGirl have already said.

This isn't about "language." "Autism" is maybe the least "offensive" term one could use to describe this particular disorder . . . and it's still an ugly thing to say, intentional or not. It's ugly because it's denigrating and insulting people who don't deserve to be insulted and denigrated. And because it is stigmatizing that condition, and employing it as a synonym for something else.

Yes, a simple apology would probably suffice, but the "consider me more aware and better educated now" is even more important, because when we say things like this, we are also revealing something about how we think. Those ways of thinking can, and should, change, as we learn more.

And that's why conversations are important. Not to beat down someone who has been insufficiently "PC" -- but to assist people in learning better, not merely how to say things, but how to think about things.

[Amina Sopwith]

34 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This isn't about "language." "Autism" is maybe the least "offensive" term one could use to describe this particular disorder . . . and it's still an ugly thing to say, intentional or not. It's ugly because it's denigrating and insulting people who don't deserve to be insulted and denigrated. And because it is stigmatizing that condition, and employing it as a synonym for something else.

What is the preferred term? I just looked it up and it seems the words I've been using are acceptable, at least according to the UK sources. I apologise if I've been getting it wrong.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Amina Sopwith said:

What is the preferred term? I just looked it up and it seems the words I've been using are acceptable, at least according to the UK sources. I apologise if I've been getting it wrong.

No, the term is totally acceptable . . . when applied to someone who actually has autism.

My point was that, in this case, it was not used appropriately, but rather as a sort of synonym for "feeble minded" or "weird"

[Rolig Loon]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

No, the term is totally acceptable . . . when applied to someone who actually has autism.

My point was that, in this case, it was not used appropriately, but rather as a sort of synonym for "feeble minded" or "weird"

I really hesitate to pop into this exciting thread, but I couldn't help noticing that some comments sound like "Well, bless your heart!"  To anyone not attuned to Southernisms, that sounds like heartfelt empathy. The veiled message, though, is usually, "My, you're a little dumb, aren't you?"   The literal meanings of things we say are often quite different from what's in our hearts. And, the interpreted intent in what we hear is often not what the speaker meant.  We create loads of opportunities every day to quit talking past each other and say, "Oh, I'm sorry."

[Rhun DeCuir]

Cancel Culture.  If someone laughs at a comment that you find offensive, please attempt a dialog with them instead of instantly raising an angry mob of your friends to attack them, dox them in RL, and get them banned from events.  Especially when that person isn't from the US, English isn't their first language, and they have no clue about certain cultural issues common in the US.  There is no need to destroy someones life over a misunderstanding.

[Rhun DeCuir]

Also, if someone doesn't like something you've made, It's not an attack on you.  Different people have different tastes.  Don't take it personally.  I've seen far too many creators who go on the offensive if someone dares to not love everything they've made.  I've seen people get attacked even for creative feedback.  Chill.

[Orwar]

4 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

So pointing to the contradictions of your post, I don't really know how to respond other than to point out that you seem to agree that we should allow Autistics to speak for themselves as to what they find offensive?

   No.

   Telling someone that they are employing a word or phrase that's not socially acceptable is one thing. I.e. you don't have to be a person of colour to tell someone that to use 'the N-word' in a derogatory manner is unacceptable.

   What I described in the example after that was people who go too far, who doesn't understand the issue but who 'have to' defend the weak because 'it's the right thing', even if in many cases them doing so is more condescending towards the people they claim to protect. It refers to people who are convinced that they are doing others a favor, where the favor is neither wanted nor helpful, but arrogant, patronising, and infuriating. 

   The first example is civil courage, the second is virtue signaling. The first is a collective effort for civilised discourse, the second is socially depreciative.

[Seicher Rae]

4 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

There are certainly a lot that go into gleeful descriptions of various horrible sex acts on women.

One could argue that Urban Dictionary, as an entity, is not responsible for the content and doesn't condone any of them; it's just a reference for words that exist and what they mean. One would be correct. The fact still remains that just because a word is in there doesn't mean it's not offensive. And as Orwar pointed out, the word itself is less important than the context in which it was used. 
 

In my experience, if a word or phrase appears in the Urban Dictionary, there's a good chance that it is offensive.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Seicher Rae

[LittleMe Jewell]

People that open question threads when they already know the answer - regardless of whether it is just to get some sort of moral affirmation or just to start threads.

[Seicher Rae]

19 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

People that open question threads when they already know the answer - regardless of whether it is just to get some sort of moral affirmation or just to start threads.

 

PS My guess is just to start threads.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Seicher Rae

[Sammy Huntsman]

Pet peeve, when a topic keeps on going for days and days and you are going. We got the point, what the person said was offensive. So let's move on. Also it's partially my fault for that whole post going south. I made a comment, then people jumped on the bandwagon to defend me. I like the defense, but after she explained what she meant. I was not really offended anymore, and just moved on.

[Lillith Hapmouche]

...Except for bringing it up again.

[Amina Sopwith]

Given that it has come up again...if I myself offended anyone then I absolutely apologise, because it was not my intention.

From my perspective: A couple of posts were made which I thought were unworthy. I responded directly to them and intended to leave it there. Another poster took me personally to task over what I'd said, so I responded to explain my thought processes and why I didn't think the criticism was fair. The discussion then drifted to Urban Dictionary. 

In the interests of full disclosure: I do not have autism, but I have some pretty close links with some people who have. So while I would never presume to speak for anyone else, I do take offence when I feel these people who are close to me have been insulted, and I don't like to leave it unchallenged.

Once again, if I caused any offence then I apologise.

 

 

[Rowan Amore]

Hair designers who only have normal (smallish) and XXL large breast sizes.  What about us poor girls in the middle?

[Silent Mistwalker]

38 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Given that it has come up again...if I myself offended anyone then I absolutely apologise, because it was not my intention.

From my perspective: A couple of posts were made which I thought were unworthy. I responded directly to them and intended to leave it there. Another poster took me personally to task over what I'd said, so I responded to explain my thought processes and why I didn't think the criticism was fair. The discussion then drifted to Urban Dictionary. 

In the interests of full disclosure: I do not have autism, but I have some pretty close links with some people who have. So while I would never presume to speak for anyone else, I do take offence when I feel these people who are close to me have been insulted, and I don't like to leave it unchallenged.

Once again, if I caused any offence then I apologise.

 

 

I get where you are coming from and I feel the same way. I do have a question. Wouldn't it be better to let those you are close to decide for themselves if something offends them? I mean, doesn't part of being a friend mean letting them make their own decisions? I'm not trying to educate you or jump on you. I'm asking because I think it's an important factor people are over looking. And I get the feeling I have worded this poorly. A feeling I get every time I post. I'm sorry if it comes across as offensive. It isn't meant to be.

[Amina Sopwith]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I get where you are coming from and I feel the same way. I do have a question. Wouldn't it be better to let those you are close to decide for themselves if something offends them? 

I wasn't going to bring them to the discussion to ask, to be honest. They don't know I post here.

They sometimes make self-deprecating jokes about their autism. They don't tend to like it when others do the deprecating for them. I could probably get away with it, with them, but I'd rather not. I can make other jokes. 

I did mean it when I apologised for any offence caused, but I still don't think we should normalise this kind of thing. 

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

...Except for bringing it up again.

Pet peeve: when I or others are unable to discern between a closure post and a spam one.