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2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:
13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

The 50% number did not refer to tax brackets or the amount of taxes government should collect from us -- it referred to governmental expenditure in other wealthy nations -- those governments spend 50% of their budget on the public good such as health care, college, daycare, maternity leave, and more. But the US only spends 25%, leaving us without these important services such as universal health care unless we can afford to purchase them. 
As a result, 40,000 people die annually due to lack of health insurance, and the US now has 30% of Covid deaths with only 5% of the population (greater expenditure in public health could have mitigated this). Reliance on the free market to provide protective equipment and other resources needed to fight the virus failed miserably, while countries which had greater public health systems fared much better. 

I see, but it would think that other 25% would have to come from taxes unless you have a model of something else in mind.  

Not quite sure what you're implying here, but the US seems to spend so much of the taxes collected on the military (more than the next 9 countries combined) that there is not enough left for the public good.  We only spend 25% on the public good whereas other wealthy countries spend 50%.

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5 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

Happened to watch part of his speech in John Olivers show regarding police craziness in your country. You guys are training Police officers to become psychopaths actually.

It would appear so in my sister's and nephew's case that it was a very mentally unstable man who beat up a kid and his Mom but I don't want to reiterate the story again of the out of uniform police officer who beat up my nephew and sister on their own property and in his own words stated he did so because my nephew was playing loud music.  My nephew had to have re-constructive surgery.  My sister won the lawsuit but then ended up in the hospital for eight years with a nervous breakdown.  

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6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Not quite sure what you're implying here, but the US seems to spend so much of the taxes collected on the military (more than the next 9 countries combined) that there is not enough left for the public good.  We only spend 25% on the public good whereas other wealthy countries spend 50%.

I think we have crossed wires here.  When you said 50%, I thought that is what most countries taxes are, while here in the U.S. they are about 25%, a little lower for rich people, maybe 23%.  So, I thought you meant to raise the taxes to 50% here in the U.S.  

Yes, I believe so too we are spending too much on military.   We could use some of that military money to help America get rid of the drugs instead of being in the Middle East.  

How we will get to health care for all, I'm not sure.  I'm just waiting it out.  I think Biden will win though.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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22 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I'd say you would have been faster off refuting his points rather then finding articles that attack the man. Or is that the only argument you can bring to the table?

 

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1 hour ago, Nick0678 said:

As long as your Police officers get trained by guys like this one don't expect much ..

Happened to watch part of his speech in John Olivers show regarding police craziness in your country. You guys are training Police officers to become psychopaths actually.

Yeah I've seen that.

You know... we don't even train our soldiers like that.

This might shock people but military soldier are NOT trained to kill. We're trained to disable, stop, wound...

 

There's a very basic cold logic to it: a wounded enemy takes 3 people off the battlefield: the injured, someone to take them off, and a medic that has to be supplied to aid them.

A dead soldier only removes one. So killing is only useful for an emotional self sense of murderous vindication if you have lost sight of your actual mission...

 

Furthermore, killing tends to enrage the enemy - hardening resistance... People fight much more intensely when no quarter is given. In fact every level of stakes you raise, your opponent will usually match... which is why soldiers these days also often try to focus on what they call 'hearts and minds' - they're not good at it, but they try... which is a step above American Police...

I'm reminded of police I have seen in places like Korea, Mexico, and Peru...

 

Korean police operate tourist help stands, smile at you, and if they're chasing you down it's most likely to practice some English phrases like "nice to meet you", or hand your a brochure of good places to eat nearby for people not used to local cuisine. They're usually unarmed.

That said I've walked right up to the front door of the presidential house and asked the 'guy in shades and a dark suit with an obvious gun' for directions and gotten a tourist infotainment show out of him after being told I wasn't actually supposed to be in that area... Meanwhile a few miles away the US Embassy in Seoul looks like it was airlifted out of Iraq...

 

Mexican cops walk around with literal machine guns strapped on. I've seen them often escorted by a second cop with a full bullet proof tower shield. And I've seen them sitting behind sandbags operating a tripod mounted machine gun pointed right into the heart of traffic in the middle of an 'island' center of the road... Mexican Cops, it should be noted, actually need that firepower as they're in a literal war with drug cartels... so you'd expect them to be super trigger happy...

- Yet... again... they give tourist directions, smile at you, and talk to you like your friends. I've watched a white Mexican cop talk to a full blood Indian guy like it was two guys chatting about good food.

Peruvian cops, look more like American cops, but are basically just neutral. No mean stares, and you can talk to them - but they don't act like tourist guides. They just... do their jobs and don't hassle you...

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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49 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Which is why we shouldn't shop at Amazon & Walmart -- these people are hoarding a huge percentage of the wealth in America.

Imagine if we purchased from smaller companies -- companies who actually paid taxes too!  Companies owned by the workers who worked there instead of to the very top owners of a company.

*remembers the new tablet I just ordered from Amazon.....

Just out of curiosity about your tablet, did you even compare prices with Ebay?

Ebay does have very good deals and many deals will even beat Amazon.  I got a new cooling unit and a new coffee pot with some of my stimulus money, the prices beat Amazon and I am a very satisfied customer with Ebay for 20+ years.  

But, again, out of curiosity, do you even price compare with Ebay?  

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2 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

This might shock people but military soldier are NOT trained to kill. We're trained to disable, stop, wound...

I totally understand what you are saying due to having military training myself back in my days and being taught to be crew in a tank doesn't mean we weren't also being used as foot patrol and guarding our borders as well. If we were trained according to this morons ideas now we would be at war with almost every country that we share borders with when things went wrong. This guy is a lunatic.

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6 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Just out of curiosity about your tablet, did you even compare prices with Ebay?

Ebay does have very good deals and many deals will even beat Amazon.  I got a new cooling unit and a new coffee pot with some of my stimulus money, the prices beat Amazon and I am a very satisfied customer with Ebay for 20+ years.  

But, again, out of curiosity, do you even price compare with Ebay?  

Whether you buy a kindle from Amazon or from Ebay you are still supporting Amazon. 

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7 hours ago, Janet Voxel said:

Crime is down though...surely this kind of policing is the cause for that, right?

I don't know it's still way too high compared to European Union and we are not 1 country here, each one has different laws and different police policies..

Still tho we are 450 million people , you guys there are 330 and you have many more murders than us. Maybe it's time to reconsider your "right to have a gun".

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1 minute ago, Nick0678 said:

I don't know it's still way too high compared to European Union and we are not 1 country here, each one has different laws and different police policies..

Still tho we are 450 million people , you guys there are 330 and you have many more murders than us. Maybe it's time to reconsider your "right to have a gun".

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Are you saying aggressive, military styled policing isn't really effective particularly when compared to other countries or Europe as a whole?

But surely, if you broke it down by countries in the EU you would get different results. That can't be right...when comparing it to say Spain or France separately.

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7 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

But surely, if you broke it down by countries in the EU you would get different results. That can't be right...when comparing it to say Spain or France separately.

France

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Spain

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8 hours ago, Janet Voxel said:

...and this is just a warm up. 

Precisely.  What's happening in Portland is not really about Portland.  From the start, the federales have been using techniques that were not required in a town that was seeing less than 50 protesters acting out at a single property after midnight.

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/07/feds-conduct-surveillance-from-downtown-courthouse-analyze-social-media-videos-post-undercover-agents-in-crowds-records-show.html

Portland is being used as a training exercise.  Despite the fact that the federal forces' heavyhanded presence has resulted in the previously dwindling nightly protests now swelling to thousands of participants, including many white suburbanites, it will be deemed a success by the henchmen running the show, because their forces got to work the kinks out of their intimidation techniques.

It's been effective, in a way.  Local Nextdoor moderators appear to be removing any thread about policing; local journalists who were clearly wearing PRESS shirts and credentials are routinely threatened and, in at least one case, shot with a "less lethal" weapon.

This deployment is not about crime.  It is about voter suppression in Democratic-led urban centers. 

The Lincoln Project leaders are not angels.  But they are right about the ultimate aim of these deployments.

https://lincolnproject.us/video/how-it-starts/

 

 

 

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Just now, Janet Voxel said:

And those are both countries where owning a firearm is legal?

That is why i said reconsider.. European Union has strict policies on firearms and even before we all make the Union we had guns banned, which means the use of guns is illegal. Unless licensed for hobbies / hunting and that's another reason why our police officers are very restricted when it comes to use their guns instead of acting like psychopaths when they stop you to check your seat belt or whatever.

 

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1 hour ago, Nick0678 said:

Still tho we are 450 million people , you guys there are 330 and you have many more murders than us. Maybe it's time to reconsider your "right to have a gun".

     
     
     

Compare crime rates excluding for murder, and then compare them with murder. What you will find is that the USA has for a few decades been lower on crime than many nations perceived as safe; like Japan... until you add in murder. Then's it's all beaches of Normandy up in this place...

So yeah... guns...

See we have a lot LESS violent assaults, muggings, etc than places like Japan or England - but our assaults tend to be more lethal. That said... I've been reading that criminals in England have come up with some new knives with blades designed to rip flesh up beyond the ability of surgery to repair or stop the bleeding on... if that's true and not a click-bait article, then their stats might catch up with us soon...

- this might actually be linked... rational people in the USA seek to avoid a fight when it's starting to happen because the other party might have a gun... that might be why we have less assaults... but we also have a shortage of rational people... so when those fights do occur, they end a lot worse than elsewhere...

 

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1 minute ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Compare crime rates excluding for murde

Already posted earlier when asked about the violent crime rates comparing to Spain, France and the U.S..

The U.S always had more on any type of violent crime then them. Not talking about the stock market thefts and stuff like that..

You do understand i can't compare every single country in the EU with the U.S.A. That's extremely time consuming and not gonna help actually.

Now regarding guns and i need your honest reply on this, you 've been in the army , you have the experience, you have the logic of a weapon and know better than someone who likes to be just a tough guy with a gun, do you consider that "everyone" without being psychologically evaluated should carry a gun? Because we both know that the world is full of nutjobs..

Yes seen those knifes, those have been around since the days i was a kid. Criminals in England just like in any other place have guns and even mp5's, ak-47s etc .. "illegal" ones. They are criminals and frankly i don't shed a tear when the police shoots those guys.

 

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9 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

Now regarding guns and i need your honest reply on this, you 've been in the army , you have the experience, you have the logic of a weapon and know better than someone who likes to be just a tough guy with a gun, do you consider that "everyone" without being psychologically evaluated should carry a gun? Because we both know that the world is full of nutjobs..

Yes seen those knifes, those have been around since the days i was a kid. Criminals in England just like in any other place have guns and even mp5's, ak-47s etc .. "illegal" ones. They are criminals and frankly i don't shed a tear when the police shoots those guys.

 

I really don't think ANYONE not a soldier in uniform deployed and in an active combat zone should have a gun.

Our Second Amendment somewhat agrees. It provides for our states to have their own militaries so that... well... they can wage wars against each other, go after native americans, contain blacks, and stop pirates. I'm not kidding there either: those were the reasons outlined in the debates between, if I recall right, Madison and Jefferson - arguing over whether or not it was needed. They used words for the Native and Black populations that were a tad less polite, but otherwise that was the debate...

It's core purpose was to prevent us from ever having a national military...

oops...

Basically the American Civil War made the second amendment a moot point - because it settled the issue of states being allowed to wage their own wars and said 'no'. That said, the notion that the national military might be something fielded by local governments, piecemeal like in a Feudal nation, was not yet settled - that was settled in the years between our war with Spain (1902) and the US joining WWI. Many people don't know this, but the whole story of Teddy Roosevelt in Cuba was that he was using his own private army deputized into the US military - which was how it was done until WWI was just too big of a conflict for that idea to work anymore... and the idea of rich people riding into battle personally to prove their manhood ended when our conflict with Spain got so grisly over in the Philippines... better to let poor people of color suffer those injuries...

 

Professional soldiers get a lot of training in properly handling a firearm. Use, care, cleaning, storage, checking to see if it's loaded or not, and so on... and they tend to have a good understanding of how to conduct themselves around it. At least for the USA, those trained AFTER Vietnam... we had a policy shift as a result of Vietnam. Going into that war we didn't train our troops on guns because the military assumed everyone was named Bubba (regardless of gender) and had grown up with a dog named Yeller, a red pickup, and a shotgun named Ol' Betsy in the truck bed... and then they got themselves a whole bunch of city folk who didn't know the difference between the barrel and the trigger...

Since Vietnam gun training has been something they take very seriously...

 

But a lot of people who buy guns have as their training, a mix of movies starring Bruce Willis and Silvester Stalone, and maybe Geena Davis too...

 

I really don't care how psychologically evaluated someone is. I don't think guns have a place outside of a military garrison.

And the age old "how we gonna fight off tyranny if we're unarmed" rant carries little water with me when the government rolls out with tanks, drones, cruise missiles, and more...

If you let things get so bad that the only way you have left to resist is guns, you've already lost...

 

I think American Police help reinforce my perception that guns in the hands of civilians, even those trained to use them, ends poorly. If you're using guns to police your population, you're not doing it right... you police with persuasion and cultural norms, not force - unless your goal is not correction but intimidation and repression.

 

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12 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

And the age old "how we gonna fight off tyranny if we're unarmed" rant carries little water with me when the government rolls out with tanks, drones, cruise missiles, and more...

Or when the people who use the jack booted thugs to justify every gun they have ever owned side with the jack booted thugs.

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18 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

....If you let things get so bad that the only way you have left to resist is guns, you've already lost...

Exactly. I am not quoting everything to save page space but i agree 100% with all that you have written.

30 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

I think American Police help reinforce my perception that guns in the hands of civilians, even those trained to use them, ends poorly. If you're using guns to police your population, you're not doing it right... you police with persuasion and cultural norms, not force - unless your goal is not correction but intimidation and repression.

Lets be serious you don't shoot people that you have stopped to check their seat belt or while investigating if they bought cigarettes with a supposedly counterfeited 20 dollar bill or you noticed they had a broken tail light. Seriously there's a huge problem with the society that you have build and that goes from top to bottom when such things happen.

For example i happen to have a broken tail light in my motorcycle since the last idk 5-6 years and to be honest when i drive around i look far more aggressive then these guys in the videos who simply went to a gas station or whatever due to the fact that my motorcycle is black without any manufacturer logo etc, i wear a black jacket and an aggressive type helmet with pitch black visor. In your country they would probably shoot me thinking i carry some nuclear bomb on me or something, over here the police of course is cautious when they stop me and everyone else due to not knowing us but not a single one takes out its gun from the holster and we end up talking about random bullsh*t and actually don't even write me a ticket for the tail light..

And no i don't live in some kind of utopia or land of anarchy. You don't shoot people just because you think they look suspicious or arrest someone for bullsh*t reasons.

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1 hour ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

And the age old "how we gonna fight off tyranny if we're unarmed" rant carries little water with me when the government rolls out with tanks, drones, cruise missiles, and more..

I am building my own Jaeger. I need a co-pilot.. 

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1 hour ago, Nick0678 said:

when i drive around i look far more aggressive then these guys in the videos who simply went to a gas station or whatever due to the fact that my motorcycle is black without any manufacturer logo etc, i wear a black jacket and an aggressive type helmet with pitch black visor.

One thing to note there that may be alien to you since you're not from the USA... but we are hyper-trained to see black males as intimidating and threatening... even when they're smaller, younger, disabled, etc...

It's like a psychotic disorder on a national level to get 'triggered' by a black male - even among, sadly, other black men and women...

So when you say "i look far more aggressive then these guys", to many Americans that's not actually possible...

This is a very sad and in most contexts disgusting analogy... but if you ever saw the movie 'Up!'... the dogs in that go nuts anytime someone says 'squirrel'...

For American police replace 'squirrel' with 'black male'... the behavior is the same...

You can find videos of police acting nice and friendly with a white guy that has just finished shooting a bunch of kids in a school... and you can find videos of them going psycho on an unarmed black male trying to surrender...

- that's not because they 'like' the white shooter, but because they've stopped/contained him... but a black male, even dead and lying in a pool of blood in the street, is still not 'contained/stopped', so they remain psyched out around him... (Michael Brown for example, the way they acted around his body even after they had murdered him, shows this point).

It's just... beyond rational. It's 400 years of brainwashing to be the attack dogs for a system designed to keep the non-white population put down.

 

When you see all these conservatives talking in panic about a race war and about this fictional idea called 'reverse racism'... that's a real fear and a real panic brought on by this national psychosis, this extreme brainwashing... they genuinely fear that if they don't put the 'coloreds down' they will be slaughtered... Every now and then we even get one of their preachers on TV talking about an incorrect retelling of Haiti just to 'remind them' to stay afraid... To an outside observer... actually even to a lot of us... it's just crazy, but that crazy has real and tragic consequences...

 

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