RL can set chain reactions for SL

[Jordyn McGregor]

1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

For a different perspective, you might want to take a look at this article I saw today, which I found extremely interesting:  'Riots', 'mobs', 'chaos': the establishment always frames change as dangerous:

 

Very interesting reading.  I will make the comment that it is a different world today compared to the 1800s at my own peril.  Thank you for a different perspective though.  And I will add one more example...Spartacus!  Although he wasn't black....maybe...who really knows?

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Jordan Whitt

[Innula Zenovka]

1 hour ago, Jordan Whitt said:

Very interesting reading.  I will make the comment that it is a different world today compared to the 1800s at my own peril.  Thank you for a different perspective though.  And I will add one more example...Spartacus!  Although he wasn't black....maybe...who really knows?

 

Also, as this woman's sign puts it so forcefully:

[Jordyn McGregor]

27 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Also, as this woman's sign puts it so forcefully:

Again at my own peril, I will point out that things like that can happen to anyone, regardless of age, sex and race.  I hope I never have to feel how anyone who has experienced any of those examples feels, but I wouldn't want the destruction of buildings, businesses and other people's lives.

[Luna Bliss]

10 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

Again at my own peril, I will point out that things like that can happen to anyone, regardless of age, sex and race.  I hope I never have to feel how anyone who has experienced any of those examples feels, but I wouldn't want the destruction of buildings, businesses and other people's lives.

That's true, it can happen to anyone, but through studying various tests used to ascertain prejudice the evidence is clear -- the injustices happen more often to Blacks, and with grave consequence. There's been a streak of Black murders by police of late (3 in one week), kind of the straw that broke the camels back, hence the rebellion and focus on Blacks of late. Following is what I learned about how the criminal justice system targets Blacks more than other groups, and confirms for me a need to focus on their concerns at this juncture:

The criminal justice system is terribly biased against Blacks, leading to more wrongful convictions and harsher sentences compared to Whites. Statistics in outcomes prove this, along with tests conducted in the Social Sciences.  Biased attitudes develop through socialization, and the stereotypes held are frequently not even conscious, but tests can demonstrate the bias. These unconscious attitudes affects how law enforcement treats Blacks in the criminal justice system and on the streets.

I was pretty shocked in college when I studied tests and learned about the lack of objectivity in perception people hold when evaluating Blacks vs Whites. Extensive experiments in the Social Sciences have been set up to allow participants to express their feelings regarding various imaginary scenarios depicted by test facilitators. They demonstrate that Blacks are more often viewed as guilty of a crime, and they are assigned greater punishment for a crime when compared to white counterparts. This held true (though to a lesser extent) even among test subjects who were actually trained in objectivity (scientists, judges).
In tests with young children even the babies reject the darker-skinned doll more often.  And saddest of all, even the darker-skinned children reject the darker-skinned doll more often.

[Innula Zenovka]

13 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

Again at my own peril, I will point out that things like that can happen to anyone, regardless of age, sex and race.  I hope I never have to feel how anyone who has experienced any of those examples feels, but I wouldn't want the destruction of buildings, businesses and other people's lives.

Yes, but when, time and again, black men and women are killed with impunity by the police when simply going about their business, or even while they're at home in bed, and nothing happens, eventually people's patience runs out.   

People have been peacefully protesting this for years, and it's not gotten them very far.    Push people too far, and this is what happens.

I can't condemn people for rioting in circumstances like that.    

 

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/6/2020 at 4:29 PM, J4ckyJ7 said:

It is amazing to see real events such as the event that caused the passing of George Floyd, can cause such unity of not only black people standing up for what is right in real life, but Second Life too. From shirts and items being sold on the market place, that when people buy an item the money goes to a black organization. This quite touch and heart moving to see. 

BLACK LIFE MATTER ✊

I think the Lindens did a great job with this.
 

They gave $10,000 to three groups and that is commensurate with their profits -- they put to shame other Silicon Valley businesses with far more profits who have neither said or done anything about BLM.

The suggested three groups are ACLU, NAACP, and SLPLC. Of the three, I'd go with NAACP as the longest-living civil rights organization still standing with the most credible record. I used to support the ACLU -- not after their atrocious apologia for Snowden which was way beyond their mandate. As for SLPLC, generally they do important work documenting hate groups. But it's ideologically tilted toward the left, and they slam some groups that are within the free speech norm and do not incite imminent violence -- which should be their definition. They leave out some leftist hate groups. They will have excellent documentation of things like Steven Miller's emails and the links in them and what that context is, but then they dismiss anti-fa as a nothing. They've also have leadership turmoils in recent years. But all three of these groups are chartered, they have high ranking from charity monitors, they are transparent, they are established, and so safer than something made yesterday which may not be as accountable.

They also provided links for petitions and such, and that's ok, although I personally don't want to give to large, amorphous bail funds run by Moveon or some other leftist group which will end up springing some violent types like the two lefty lawyers, graduates of prestigious universities, who threw the Molotov cocktails into the police cars in NYC. I personally would rather give to legal defense funds as the more urgent need given massive numbers of cases, many of whom have been arrested for nothing, or for minor offenses. The bail system is broken thoroughly, to be sure, but it's just my choice to focus on defense rather than bail.

I think a lot of SL merchants and stores have stepped up to respond to this urgent new movement. 

To be sure, when you donate through SL, you are passing funds through a sieve several times, losing value on the way with fees, and it's better just to donate directly on the Internet. But not everyone can do that or is moved to do that and putting $100 or $500 in a tip jar is easier, so why not? If they get content for that, it's a motivation.

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Prokofy Neva

[JanuarySwan]

1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

 

This is undoubtedly tragic but burning down the city won't help unless it's to say the police will go away if there is no city, but that's still not true.  

The way to fight this is by refusal to pay taxes, most likely property taxes until immunity for police crimes is over-turned.  Would anyone be willing to do that - refuse to pay property and other taxes?  

Edited June 10, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, JanuarySwan said:

This is undoubtedly tragic but burning down the city won't help unless it's to say the police will go away if there is no city, but that's still not true.  

The way to fight this is by refusal to pay taxes, most likely property taxes until immunity for police crimes is over-turned.  Would anyone be willing to do that?  

- Vote out all elected officials ESPECIALLY any elected "law enforcement" - Police Chief, Sheriff, Prosecutor, etc.

- Vote in new people who will make the appropriate changes.

- Enact city / local ordinances that Police unions shall not have certain rights in bargaining.

[JanuarySwan]

12 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

- Vote out all elected officials ESPECIALLY any elected "law enforcement" - Police Chief, Sheriff, Prosecutor, etc.

- Vote in new people who will make the appropriate changes.

- Enact city / local ordinances that Police unions shall not have certain rights in bargaining.

Hmmmm, yeah but...promises...promises...how many times have the first two been tried?  The third I'm not familiar with whether it was tried in certain states or not.

As far as promises...promises...I don't know if it's enough.  These police guys tend to stick together for good ol' boy power.  

However, the law that already exists for immunity in crimes perpetrated by the police needs to be over-turned first.  I say hit them with unpaid taxes.  

Edited June 10, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[Innula Zenovka]

1 minute ago, JanuarySwan said:

This is undoubtedly tragic but burning down the city won't help unless it's to say the police will go away if there is no city, but that's still not true.  

The way to fight this is by refusal to pay taxes, most likely property taxes until immunity for police crimes is over-turned.  Would anyone be willing to do that?  

Indeed so, and now things seem a lot calmer and more peaceful, and people will start working on solid initiatives and proposals to try to address specific issues.

My point is that rioting is a symptom.   It's what happens when people's consent to be governed breaks down -- then there are people out protesting the specific issues, there are people out rioting because that's what they want to do -- they're anarchists or they are like rock stars on tour trashing a hotel room or whatever their motivation is -- and there are looters.   Then things quieten down and the issues that caused the riot in the first place either get fixed or don't.

The rioting seems to have stopped, at least for the time being.   It has achieved something, in that I think everyone's perceptions of racism and racial injustice have been profoundly changed, both in the US and abroad, by the events of the last fortnight, and political change in the US is now taking place that would have been unthinkable a month ago.

Let's just hope it doesn't happen again -- spontaneous rioting like that is a sign something is badly wrong.   When it happens, it happens for a reason.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Let's just hope it doesn't happen again

Heck, it's only been 50 years since the last rioting+protesting of this scale.  Options:

1) Do nothing, see what happens in 50 years

2) Do something, hope it works

3) Do something RIGHT, make sure it works

[JanuarySwan]

18 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Heck, it's only been 50 years since the last rioting+protesting of this scale.  Options:

1) Do nothing, see what happens in 50 years

2) Do something, hope it works

3) Do something RIGHT, make sure it works

Then, we need an amendment to The Bill of Rights that no law enforcement official shall be held unaccountable for crimes and can and will be tried in a court of law and held accountable to the highest degree in that state's statute, etc...or however it should be written.  (My writing is only an example.)

But, even having that in the Bill of Rights doesn't guarantee there won't be a secreted if not outright paid off abuse of power but it's better to have it written into The Bill of Rights than not.  

Can it be done?

Edited June 10, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[Aethelwine]

1 hour ago, Jordan Whitt said:

Again at my own peril, I will point out that things like that can happen to anyone, regardless of age, sex and race.  I hope I never have to feel how anyone who has experienced any of those examples feels, but I wouldn't want the destruction of buildings, businesses and other people's lives.

It is common to overstate for emphasis and to express emotion. In its context I don't think the person making the sign intends it to read as a statement of intent.

[JanuarySwan]

34 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

people will start working on solid initiatives and proposals to try to address specific issues.

I hope so, Innula!  As something needs to be done more than protesting or talking on forums...this problem needs amendment, not talk.  

As far as the police having immunity for crimes perpetrated by themselves, as far as I can see with my limited knowledge here, it may be against the 9th Amendment for the police to have that immunity in the first place as they wrote the immunity only for themselves and their crimes.  

The Ninth Amendment was part of the Bill of Rights that was added to the Constitution on December 15, 1791. It says that all the rights not listed in the Constitution belong to the people, not the government. In other words, the rights of the people are not limited to just the rights listed in the Constitution.

Edited June 10, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[FairreLilette]

47 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

I hope so, Innula!  As something needs to be done more than protesting or talking on forums...this problem needs amendment, not talk.  

As far as the police having immunity for crimes perpetrated by themselves, as far as I can see with my limited knowledge here, it may be against the 9th Amendment for the police to have that immunity in the first place as they wrote the immunity only for themselves and their crimes.  

The Ninth Amendment was part of the Bill of Rights that was added to the Constitution on December 15, 1791. It says that all the rights not listed in the Constitution belong to the people, not the government. In other words, the rights of the people are not limited to just the rights listed in the Constitution.

There needs to be an amendment also that no armed forces shall be allowed to except private monies and if they do it will be under extreme penalty of the people and The Supreme Court.  I looked up how police are funded.  It is through private monies also along with federal and state grants.   That needs to be stopped - the allowing of private funding of an armed domestic government force.

As far as property taxes, then we could be looking at the possibility of abolishing property taxes.

Look, it is not the government's money.  The government operates on mine and your money.  It is not their money to spend; it is ours.  If our property taxes are going to pay for police to brutalize with immunity, then we need to abolish property taxes.  

Edited June 10, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Ceka Cianci]

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

That's true, it can happen to anyone, but through studying various tests used to ascertain prejudice the evidence is clear -- the injustices happen more often to Blacks, and with grave consequence. There's been a streak of Black murders by police of late (3 in one week), kind of the straw that broke the camels back, hence the rebellion and focus on Blacks of late. Following is what I learned about how the criminal justice system targets Blacks more than other groups, and confirms for me a need to focus on their concerns at this juncture:

The criminal justice system is terribly biased against Blacks, leading to more wrongful convictions and harsher sentences compared to Whites. Statistics in outcomes prove this, along with tests conducted in the Social Sciences.  Biased attitudes develop through socialization, and the stereotypes held are frequently not even conscious, but tests can demonstrate the bias. These unconscious attitudes affects how law enforcement treats Blacks in the criminal justice system and on the streets.

I was pretty shocked in college when I studied tests and learned about the lack of objectivity in perception people hold when evaluating Blacks vs Whites. Extensive experiments in the Social Sciences have been set up to allow participants to express their feelings regarding various imaginary scenarios depicted by test facilitators. They demonstrate that Blacks are more often viewed as guilty of a crime, and they are assigned greater punishment for a crime when compared to white counterparts. This held true (though to a lesser extent) even among test subjects who were actually trained in objectivity (scientists, judges).
In tests with young children even the babies reject the darker-skinned doll more often.  And saddest of all, even the darker-skinned children reject the darker-skinned doll more often.

No,They happen more to Indigenous than anyone else..

I just have to say it because, I know how easy It can be to get caught up in just the the black and white part of things.. But when someone say's it can happen to anyone and then say, but it happens more to blacks.. I just have to jump in for a sec and speak up..

I know things have been tunnel visioned on black and white lately with current events, but just feel the need to put a reminder out there that our ears are to the ground..

hehehe

[FairreLilette]

1 minute ago, Ceka Cianci said:

No,They happen more to Indigenous than anyone else..

I just have to say it because, I know how easy It can be to get caught up in just the the black and white part of things.. But when someone say's it can happen to anyone and then say, but it happens more to blacks.. I just have to jump in for a sec and speak up..

I know things have been tunnel visioned on black and white lately with current events, but just feel the need to put a reminder out there that our ears are to the ground..

hehehe

Ceka is correct.  

[LittleMe Jewell]

6 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

There needs to be an amendment also that no armed forces shall be allowed to except private monies and if they do it will be under extreme penalty of the people and The Supreme Court.  I looked up how police are funded.  It is through private monies also along with federal and state grants.   That needs to be stopped the allowing of private funding of an armed force.

As far as property taxes, then we could be looking at the possibility of abolishing property taxes.

Look, it is not the government's money.  The government operates on mine and your money.  It is not their money to spend; it is ours.  If our property taxes are going to pay for police to brutalize with immunity, then we need to abolish property taxes.  

You can't completely eliminate property taxes.  You can simply modify how they are distributed - what they are used for.  In most areas the property taxes are a large portion of the school funding.  They also pay for local street work and sanitation/trash services.  Those are only the most common usages - many locales will have additional things that are funded via property taxes.

[Beth Macbain]

12 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

George Floyd was not a good black man.

I was going to tackle your post point by point until I got to that line. He wasn't perfect, had committed some crimes, and also did his time. If you believe that makes a person bad, then there is no conversation to be had here. Black male drug addict = Bad; White female cheating on partner = Good.

We clearly have different definitions of good and bad. 

 

[FairreLilette]

27 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

You can't completely eliminate property taxes.  You can simply modify how they are distributed - what they are used for.  In most areas the property taxes are a large portion of the school funding.  They also pay for local street work and sanitation/trash services.  Those are only the most common usages - many locales will have additional things that are funded via property taxes.

Yeah, I was thinking that later, but until amendments are drawn up...I was thinking it might...maybe...need to be more drastic?  I wonder how our politicians would react to us carrying signs saying "SAVE LIVES - Abolish Property Taxes NOW"  for example.   I don't really know. 

What do you suggest right now before anyone else is hurt?  Avoiding lives needlessly lost might need to be our main concern now.  How do we do that right now?

We have to write our Congressional Leaders and other state and local leaders and we have to wake them up and hit them hard.  I believe that anyways.  Hard and right now.  

Edited June 10, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Luna Bliss]

34 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

That's true, it can happen to anyone, but through studying various tests used to ascertain prejudice the evidence is clear -- the injustices happen more often to Blacks, and with grave consequence. There's been a streak of Black murders by police of late (3 in one week), kind of the straw that broke the camels back, hence the rebellion and focus on Blacks of late. Following is what I learned about how the criminal justice system targets Blacks more than other groups, and confirms for me a need to focus on their concerns at this juncture:

The criminal justice system is terribly biased against Blacks, leading to more wrongful convictions and harsher sentences compared to Whites. Statistics in outcomes prove this, along with tests conducted in the Social Sciences.  Biased attitudes develop through socialization, and the stereotypes held are frequently not even conscious, but tests can demonstrate the bias. These unconscious attitudes affects how law enforcement treats Blacks in the criminal justice system and on the streets.

I was pretty shocked in college when I studied tests and learned about the lack of objectivity in perception people hold when evaluating Blacks vs Whites. Extensive experiments in the Social Sciences have been set up to allow participants to express their feelings regarding various imaginary scenarios depicted by test facilitators. They demonstrate that Blacks are more often viewed as guilty of a crime, and they are assigned greater punishment for a crime when compared to white counterparts. This held true (though to a lesser extent) even among test subjects who were actually trained in objectivity (scientists, judges).
In tests with young children even the babies reject the darker-skinned doll more often.  And saddest of all, even the darker-skinned children reject the darker-skinned doll more often.

No,They happen more to Indigenous than anyone else..

I just have to say it because, I know how easy It can be to get caught up in just the the black and white part of things.. But when someone say's it can happen to anyone and then say, but it happens more to blacks.. I just have to jump in for a sec and speak up..

I know things have been tunnel visioned on black and white lately with current events, but just feel the need to put a reminder out there that our ears are to the ground..

hehehe

I'm glad you mentioned this to point out more Natives are murdered by cops than Blacks.

But I was speaking about the social justice system overall and not just murders by cops -- from the apprehension of supposed criminals, through judgement at trials and subsequent sentences. There are more Blacks per capita in prison than Natives. Somebody posted the demographic demonstrating this awhile back.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[LittleMe Jewell]

36 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Yeah, I was thinking that later, but until amendments are drawn up...I was thinking it might...maybe...need to be more drastic?  I wonder how our politicians would react to us carrying signs saying "SAVE LIVES - Abolish Property Taxes NOW"  for example.   I don't really know. 

I would protest against 'abolishing property taxes' because I do not want the schools to have to deal with that and property taxes are the primary funding method for schools.  In the state of Colorado, just over 50% of our property taxes went to schools -- i.e. more than half.  Do you think that the inner city will go along with defunding their schools?  

 

[FairreLilette]

13 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I would protest against 'abolishing property taxes' because I do not want the schools to have to deal with that and property taxes are the primary funding method for schools.  In the state of Colorado, just over 50% of our property taxes went to schools -- i.e. more than half.  Do you think that the inner city will go along with defunding their schools?  

 

Okay, what else do we have to fight with?  It needs a boycott of something.  Like what?  It may sound radical but this immunity the police have granted themselves is completely unconstitutional and if amendments aren't written, then what?  More lives taken?  Or how about, your kids at school three days, and then dead?  Killed.   Something has to change and I agree that talking about it isn't going to help.  We have a voice but it's not through words and it's not through fists...it's usually through a boycott of some kind.  

I cannot see myself writing any politician with a letter that reads "Black Lives Matter, could you please help."  That's not going to help the situation.  They'd just throw it in the trash or never even read it in the first place.   I don't think calling is going to help either.  It's not a strong enough voice.   They will give me a pacifier for a while.  I don't want another pacifier.  

Edited June 10, 2020 by FairreLilette

[LittleMe Jewell]

8 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Okay, what else do we have to fight with?  It needs a boycott of something.  Like what?  It may sound radical but this immunity the police have granted themselves is completely unconstitutional and if amendments aren't written, then what?  More lives taken?  Or how about, your kids at school three days, and then dead?  Killed.   Something has to change and I agree that talking about it isn't going to help.  We have a voice but it's not through words and it's not through fists...it's usually through a boycott of some kind.  

I do not have the answers for how to fix the problems.  I simply know that some things will make it worse.  Solutions need to be thoroughly thought out in order to hopefully avoid too many negative consequences.

As a side note, I'm pretty sure that for most homeowners, their property tax payments are part of their mortgage payment and it is the mortgage company that actually pays the property tax.  You could try to reduce your monthly mortgage payment by however much goes to the property taxes, but then the mortgage company would just repossess your house.

Additionally, in Colorado anyway, roughly 55% of the total property taxes are paid by businesses and not residential.  I'm not sure if the businesses would be willing to risk their business getting shut down if they don't pay their property taxes.

[FairreLilette]

26 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I do not have the answers for how to fix the problems.  I simply know that some things will make it worse.  Solutions need to be thoroughly thought out in order to hopefully avoid too many negative consequences.

As a side note, I'm pretty sure that for most homeowners, their property tax payments are part of their mortgage payment and it is the mortgage company that actually pays the property tax.  You could try to reduce your monthly mortgage payment by however much goes to the property taxes, but then the mortgage company would just repossess your house.

Additionally, in Colorado anyway, roughly 55% of the total property taxes are paid by businesses and not residential.  I'm not sure if the businesses would be willing to risk their business getting shut down if they don't pay their property taxes.

Not all pay through their mortgage.  My ex and I never did.  I do not know anything of today's mortgages here in California.  But forced property tax, heck no, no thanks.  I would not pay that as I've never had too in California but I am a renter now.  However, my ex owns a home and does not pay property tax through the mortgage.  I gave him the house and he made up for that in other ways.  I didn't want the burden and the maintenance of it all.   

I'm sorry to say but I did not like to hear of your property tax set up in Colorado.  It too forced.  It would be better to have those who have school children to pay a direct tax for schools and a direct tax for waste management, imo, as I do not see why those without children should have to pay for your kids schools?  So direct payment to schools if you have kids would be more fair.  

However, Colorado property tax laws sounds out of the question as a way to help although I do think your system is too forced.  Other states may agree.  I plan to talk with neighbors regarding this issue.  As I don't believe there is anything else to boycott as most of our property taxes go to pay for law enforcement.  Paying directly a person's portion to schools sounds more fair as well as each person paying directly to sanitation here in California but those without children should not have to pay for schools as I think that is unfair.    

But, your bringing up businesses here and many with their businesses burned down at this time, I do not see that those who have suffered loss of their business need to pay for property tax at this time.  It's not right.  

Plus, with the pandemic, kids will and can adjust for awhile.  If we don't change this with amendments even if we have to use boycotts, we may as well put the pacifier in our mouths ourselves.  

Edited June 10, 2020 by FairreLilette