RL can set chain reactions for SL

[J4ckyJ7]

It is amazing to see real events such as the event that caused the passing of George Floyd, can cause such unity of not only black people standing up for what is right in real life, but Second Life too. From shirts and items being sold on the market place, that when people buy an item the money goes to a black organization. This quite touch and heart moving to see. 

BLACK LIFE MATTER ✊

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, J4ckyJ7 said:

From shirts and items being sold on the market place, that when people buy an item the money goes to a black organization.

You hope.  I'm a skeptic and so, just like in RL, where various issues bring out the scammers that claim to be collecting for something worthwhile and aren't, I have little trust in most of it online.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, LittleMe Jewell said:

You hope.  I'm a skeptic and so, just like in RL, where various issues bring out the scammers that claim to be collecting for something worthwhile and aren't, I have little trust in most of it online.

I actually haven't seen a lot of BLM merchandise that costs money, as such. The list of things I put together (and posted in the BLM thread) are all freebies or dollarbies. But yes, there must by now be merchants jumping on the bandwagon and trying to monetize this. I should check.

One exception to this are those merchants participating in "Stand for Justice." They've been very transparent about how the cash will be processed, where it is going, and so forth, and, as they seem to have the quasi-official support of LL itself now, I'm reasonably confident that they can be trusted. (They are also mostly pretty recognizable and high-profile merchants, for what that's worth.)

[LittleMe Jewell]

15 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

One exception to this are those merchants participating in "Stand for Justice." They've been very transparent about how the cash will be processed, where it is going, and so forth, and, as they seem to have the quasi-official support of LL itself now, I'm reasonably confident that they can be trusted. (They are also mostly pretty recognizable and high-profile merchants, for what that's worth.)

Yeah, I figure anything the LL officially gets involved with / behind is probably legit, but I'd be super skeptical of anything else.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Yeah, I figure anything the LL officially gets involved with / behind is probably legit, but I'd be super skeptical of anything else.

Yep, I agree totally. There are lots of creators and merchants who are donating their time and work to this because they care: I'd want to be very careful not to feed someone who's just cynically trying to profit from it.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

anything non ll supported should always be looked at with a skeptics eye, because you really dont know where the money is going too at the end of the day.

[karynmaria]

It is great to see people come together in all this and to hear the positive stories.  It would be nice if we could have at least ONE thread where we can focus on the positive.  Can we all please, please try to do this. 

[Syo Emerald]

I actually do not see the "chain reaction" from your title. Offering BLM themed items in SL is not a chain reaction. There are no inbetween steps, that lead from one event in RL to a not instantly assumed event in SL. Just as rainbow themed items aren't the result of a chain reaction, just because americans started celebrating pride month in June or that we have lots of new christmas themed items in December each year, because RL holidays are coming.

[Jordyn McGregor]

21 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

Offering BLM themed items in SL is not a chain reaction. 

It's called jumping on the currently trending bandwagon, like for example, people changing their SL names to reflect the current hit movies etc.  Are we over Harley Quinn yet?

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Jordan Whitt

[Lillith Hapmouche]

#nolifematterseveryonesucks is sooo charming, lately.

But yeah, sure, this is totally new and exclusive to the current drama of the day - nothing ever happened before in support of cancer research, tornadoes and floodings, bushfires, bullying, personal affairs, judical issues, sick pets, sick users and their deaths ... sometimes selfishly abused, sometimes honest.

Yeah, completely new and it really needed a horribly gone wrong attempted arrest, blown out of any proportion and justification while ending one person's life, to make it happen.

And you're on a frigging forum, start your conversation already instead of turning it into a challenge. 🙄

[kiramanell]

On 6/7/2020 at 6:44 AM, karynmaria said:

It is great to see people come together in all this and to hear the positive stories.  It would be nice if we could have at least ONE thread where we can focus on the positive.  Can we all please, please try to do this. 

 

That would be nice. Those threads always leave me feeling soiled somehow, afterwards, and icky for having participated.  Either I apparently say hurtful things, or I see others saying hurtful things. Whatever is happening, those threads always wind up with me feelling less clean, and seeing most everyone hurting, one way or the other. Only the most simplest of photo threads still seem safe. The rest, although I can certainly be enriched by them, still always leave my soul stained somehow.

[Rhun DeCuir]

Sadly, just as in RL, SL has its share of racists; both active and passive.

BLM doesn't mean "Only black lives matter."  It doesn't mean "White lives don't matter."  It means "Some people don't think black lives matter at all, and that has to stop."  If someone's house is burning, and they ask you for help, do you tell them that "All houses matter." and walk away?  Of course not.  If you're a decent Human Being, you help. You do something.

Some people, unfortunately are not decent Human Beings.

[Waiomao]

SL is reflecting RL... sad to see yet more divisive arguments surrounding a human rights issue we should all be able to support in our own ways.

[Akane Nacht]

From what I have seen in this and related threads, the people posting are unanimous in agreeing that all human beings have the right to be treated with fairness, compassion and dignity. 

I'm not American, so I have no opinion on this particular movement in the American context, but what has filtered over to my corner of the world is a message of: equality and justice, regardless of ethnicity. I am totally behind that, and always have been. It's actually in the national pledge of my country. 

[Skell Dagger]

Just a note to those formatting their text in dark colours: please be aware that for those of us using the forum's dark theme your responses look like this:

Yes, we can highlight the text if we're at an actual computer, but that's hard to do on a phone. Please consider using the standard formatting so that your words can be read more easily.

[Cindy Evanier]

26 minutes ago, KasiaAleksa said:

And right now I still need to work on myself . I think I need to read more, listen more, and stop racism from happening in realms within my control, instead of just getting deep into forum debates with people who do not wish to debate anyway.

There is plenty of debate and links for you to read  over here  

 

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

20 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

They would lynch me for my views now if I went back anyway.

Jordan, I'm going to assume (hope?) that you did not choose this word deliberately.

Can I gently suggest that we not use it in this kind of context? The word "lynch" has particular connotations and historic associations that are particularly resonant now. To compare your treatment in a forum thread with the brutal murders of black people in the US seems highly inappropriate, most especially in a discussion about systemic racism against blacks.

That's not being "PC": it's being sensitive to the particular resonances this word may have for others that perhaps you and I are fortunate enough not to share. I hope that, however strongly we may feel about current events, we can avoid the use of unnecessarily hurtful language?

I'm also unclear -- and I address this to @Cindy Evanier as well, as she seems equally horrified? -- why the word "judge" should seem so sinister? You are quite clearly "judging" me, and have been very articulate in your "judgment" of those advocating for BLM here. It's a pretty normal word. Someone who has consistently and brusquely rejected any possibility of sympathy for black people in the US has told me an awful lot about himself: my "judgement" involves no more than that. Please don't try to score points by making it sound more sinister than it actually is.

It's all rather ironic, surely, given that I've actually asked people to stop using this thread to attack Alwin. It's unfair to him to single him out in this way, and I'll again ask that we stop discussing him here.

[Cindy Evanier]

7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm also unclear -- and I address this to @Cindy Evanier as well, as she seems equally horrified? -- why the word "judge" should seem so sinister?

For me I would prefer to discuss someones differing  opinion than judge them.  I say this as someone who, in the distant past said All Lives Matter when I was discussing Trayvon Martin and Zimmerman with my partner, a black man.  We talked, a lot about it with him explaining things I, a white woman, would never experience and he had all his life.  If he had judged me on my ignorance, rather than talking and helping me to understand why Black Lives Matter is so important, then maybe to this day I would still be replying All Lives Matter.   Maybe Jordan's "scares me" was harsher words than I would have used but for the reasons above I believe educate rather than judge. 

[Beth Macbain]

45 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

Which I chose to do because of the constant negativity.  No-one was interested in whether what I said added to a discussion or not.  My views were just dismissed outright because they weren't the right opinions. 

They would lynch me for my views now if I went back anyway.

Your first post in that thread was making a pretty wild assertion - judgement even - that we in the US don't care about the more than 113,000 Americans that have died from COVID. You asked me if I'm standing up for them. Honestly, I was gobsmacked and incredibly insulted by that, and my response was a shady meme, yes, and I apologize for using that instead of my words. I did, however, come back the next morning and used my words but you either didn't see it, or ignored it:

I will also admit that my revulsion towards your words are in part due to our past history. I also realize now that it's possible that you don't remember, or perhaps never even knew, but we do have history going back many years. 

Regardless, I felt personally insulted by the whataboutism suggesting that we don't care about the people in our country who have died from COVID, or even people all over the world - not just the US. 

I am personally struggling with the knowledge that we are going to have another spike after working so hard to flatten the curve, and that it is going to lead to more deaths. We've been where we are now before - when the officers that beat Rodney King were acquitted, when George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin, in 2014 when Tamir Rice, Michael Brown and Eric Garner were killed, the Watts riots, etc., but this time feels different. This time it isn't just black people protesting.

For better or for worse, seeing the snuff film of George Floyd's death, coupled with Breonna Taylor being killed while she was sleeping, and the redneck trash who hunted down and murdered Ahmaud Auberry, did something to wake up a large part of white Americans in a way that hasn't been seen before. We can't wear blinders anymore. We have a real problem - a big problem, and a complex problem.

Right now, there is momentum to make some serious, long-overdue changes. If we wait until the threat of COVID is gone, that momentum is going to die, likely along with several other unarmed black people. 

It's easy to judge us from the other side of the world - and while you are upset and feel like you were being judged by us, isn't that exactly what you were doing as well? 

[Jordyn McGregor]

10 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Jordan, I'm going to assume (hope?) that you did not choose this word deliberately.

Can I gently suggest that we not use it in this kind of context? The word "lynch" has particular connotations and historic associations that are particularly resonant now. To compare your treatment in a forum thread with the brutal murders of black people in the US seems highly inappropriate, most especially in a discussion about systemic racism against blacks.

That's not being "PC": it's being sensitive to the particular resonances this word may have for others that perhaps you and I are fortunate enough not to share. I hope that, however strongly we may feel about current events, we can avoid the use of unnecessarily hurtful language?

I'm also unclear -- and I address this to @Cindy Evanier as well, as she seems equally horrified? -- why the word "judge" should seem so sinister? You are quite clearly "judging" me, and have been very articulate in your "judgment" of those advocating for BLM here. It's a pretty normal word. Someone who has consistently and brusquely rejected any possibility of sympathy for black people in the US has told me an awful lot about himself: my "judgement" involves no more than that. Please don't try to score points by making it sound more sinister than it actually is.

 

I had no connotations at all in mind when I said what I said, it was simply a word chosen (on reflection) in poor taste when I posted at 2am when I should have closed down these boards and gone to bed.  It was a bad choice given its historic roots, but it is not my historic roots, therefore it doesn't have those connotations for me.  I apologise for any and all outrage, clutched pearls or virtue signalling I may have caused.  A better response would have been to say I would have angry mobs with pitchforks after me now, but that would probably offend farmers.  If I said stone me, I would probably offend people from countries where they continue to stone adulterers or other wrong doers.  Damned if I do...  

As for your choice of words....you did not specify that you were only judging a certain person for his feelings on BLM.  You encompassed ALL in that.  You said it was valid to judge THOSE who do not support BLM.  As a "those", it's offensive to have someone who does not know me, does not know my beliefs and thoughts and feelings, does not know my history or life sitting in judgment of me simply because I disagree with them on something.  THAT'S HOW LIFE WORKS!  People have differing thoughts and feelings.  People disagree!  People are ALLOWED to disagree.  Just because I do not subscribe to your narrative, that does not make me a bad person.  That does not make the certain person a bad person. 

Note - I personally do not know said person, have never interatced with said person beyond him giving me a little kick up the jacksy for posting something in a wrong thread, so have no intimate knowledge of his thoughts, feelings or actions or any desire to defend him, because I suspect if he wants to, he can do that for himself.

So yes, it terrifies me when someone says that if anyone disagrees with something, they should be judged.  And considering the connotations that word has these days - "cancelling", backlashing, abuse etc, I feel it was a threatening statement to make.  Don't forget it is now a world where people's "poor hurt little feelings" matter more than common sense.

I have not been "articulate in *my* "judgment" of those advocating for BLM here", here meaning this thread.  On this thread I offered the opinion that "chain reaction" was simply bandwagon jumping, and then that I was staying out of your thread as my views were not popular there.  How is that judging anyone?  I have made a point of not doing that as I believe you have your rights to support it.  I feel it's misguided, the latest trendy thing to do and that a better focus at this time should be the continuing horrific rise in your country's corona cases and deaths (which when I posted was 108,000 and is now over 114,000), but hey, I disagree with you so I'm racist, a "Karen" and need to sit down, shut up and be judged.

People do not support BLM for many reason.  It is our right not to support anything we don't want to.  And it certainly does not give you the right to sit on your high horse of righteousness and judge us for it.

[Akane Nacht]

Judging people is a way of dismissing them. Thing is, we still have to share the world with other people, like them or not. How about saying to yourself: this person must have some reason for how he/she behaves, and if I am genuinely kind to them maybe they will tell me. Or maybe I just need to leave them their space and agree to disagree. We all think of ourselves as complex beings, yet can sum up another person based on scant knowledge.  

This lockdown has made me so self reflective. I'm losing my mean streak... never gonna be a pro gamer at this rate 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

@Jordan Whitt @Akane Nacht

I think we may be getting a bit hung up on semantics here.

Jordan, I do not, and did not, believe that you used the word "lynch" deliberately in an insulting or hurtful way. I don't think that you're the kind of person who would. Had I thought that you were using it deliberately, I would not have "gently" suggested, as I did, that you rethink it: my language would have been a great deal harsher.

Similarly, when I use the word "judge," it is not intended to invoke, as people here seem inclined to believe, Judge Dred, The Bloody Assizes, or even that most awful woman, Judge Judy. Judging is something we do all the time; it's part of the critical thinking process. When you characterize those who support BLM as "bandwagon jumpers," you are, believe it or not, "judging" them. That is to say, you are concluding something about them based upon what you take to be the evidence. We all do it: it is inextricably linked with how we think.

And it is not "absolute." How I judge someone who roars into the BLM thread and makes literal threats against people (we had one of those the other day: he got the ban hammer) is going to be rather different from how I judge you. I disagree with you, absolutely, but I don't think you're a "bad" person. And in fact, I don't think I've called anyone who's disagreed with me about this issue that.

It's a complicated subject. There is room for disagreement, except in the case of people who are outright racist -- and I haven't seen anyone like that here. And that includes you.

Maybe we all need to stop sharpening the rhetorical edge of our language a bit. If we can agree, after all, that there is a problem with racism -- and I haven't seen anyone denying that -- then our discussion becomes about ways and means, rather than about the fundamental respect and care that we owe to everyone.

[Jordyn McGregor]

10 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

Your first post in that thread was making a pretty wild assertion - judgement even - that we in the US don't care about the more than 113,000 Americans that have died from COVID. You asked me if I'm standing up for them. Honestly, I was gobsmacked and incredibly insulted by that, and my response was a shady meme, yes, and I apologize for using that instead of my words. I did, however, come back the next morning and used my words but you either didn't see it, or ignored it:

I will also admit that my revulsion towards your words are in part due to our past history. I also realize now that it's possible that you don't remember, or perhaps never even knew, but we do have history going back many years. 

Regardless, I felt personally insulted by the whataboutism suggesting that we don't care about the people in our country who have died from COVID, or even people all over the world - not just the US. 

I am personally struggling with the knowledge that we are going to have another spike after working so hard to flatten the curve, and that it is going to lead to more deaths. We've been where we are now before - when the officers that beat Rodney King were acquitted, when George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin, in 2014 when Tamir Rice, Michael Brown and Eric Garner were killed, the Watts riots, etc., but this time feels different. This time it isn't just black people protesting.

For better or for worse, seeing the snuff film of George Floyd's death, coupled with Breonna Taylor being killed while she was sleeping, and the redneck trash who hunted down and murdered Ahmaud Auberry, did something to wake up a large part of white Americans in a way that hasn't been seen before. We can't wear blinders anymore. We have a real problem - a big problem, and a complex problem.

Right now, there is momentum to make some serious, long-overdue changes. If we wait until the threat of COVID is gone, that momentum is going to die, likely along with several other unarmed black people. 

It's easy to judge us from the other side of the world - and while you are upset and feel like you were being judged by us, isn't that exactly what you were doing as well? 

1.  My "wild assertion" was more of a suggestion that there were bigger fish to fry at this particular time, ie a virus that is highly contagious and can be transmitted through close contact, and gathering together for protests would only spread it more.  Look at your covid numbers now and tell me I was wrong.  I also understand the concept of strike while the iron is hot, ie the momentum for change is here and now, so let's do it....but come on...common sense.  If you are going to protest, be safe!  

2.  I did not ignore your response.  I did not read it.  I left the thread and have not returned to read or post on it, and won't be.  So I appreciate you coming back to "use your words" even if I was no longer there to see it.

3.  Safely sitting here on my other side of the world where we put people first and have had no covid cases for coming up on three weeks now, it is hard to believe the US cares about covid deaths as we have seen the anti-lockdown protests, the people who want haircuts, the people who believe it is all a hoax, the protests wanting lockdowns to end..COME ON...your PRESIDENT is one of the main voices here.  As with many things, the loudest (and often insane) voices are sadly the ones seen and heard.  

4.  I am an essential worker.  I left the house to care for others all through my country's lockdown and lined up at the grocery store.  I felt extremely stressed, worried all the time and hated all the hoops I had to jump through, but I understood that it was for my protection and the protection of everyone around me, so I did it.  I survived 8 weeks of lockdown without hairdressers, cafes, wild parties and the world didn't end.  Your country melted down (points up at point 4).  God I hope aliens don't invade now or we'll be fubared if we have to depend on the States to save the world!

5.  Protesting is one thing.  Looting, destroying businesses and killing innocent people is NOT protesting.  That is criminal behaviour.  George Floyd was not a good black man.  But he did not deserve to die as he did.  He certainly does not deserve to be held up as a martyr for a cause that matters.  David Dorn was an exceptionally good black man.  And he did not deserve to die as he did.  He deserves the outrage and outpouring of emotions and support.  But where is it?  Nowhere, because he was killed by a black man looting a store "protesting" BLM.  

6.  I do believe change for your country is long overdue and is something that needs to be taken extremely seriously.  I believe the entitled "Karens" who call the police on a black man going about his day should be arrested and charged for criminal nuisance, then maybe that would stop that from occurring.  I believe resisting arrest should not result in excessive use of force being used or the loss of life.  I believe the officer/s involved with George's death need to be charged and have their day in court, but whatever the outcome, someone won't be happy about it.  I believe protests should not lead to looting, destruction or deaths.  That won't garner positive attention to your cause, just backlash and negative attention.  But I live on the other side of the world with my naive pollyanna existance where nothing bad ever happens.

7.  I did not say anyone was wrong in believing what they believe, that they were wrong in supporting what they supported.  I made some observations and asked questions.  I stand by them.  However, there is a difference between actively supporting something and just virtue signalling and appearing to support something just cos its the thing to do now.  Just look at how many RL "influencers" have been outted for using the BLM movement for clout.  Think it's not happening in SL too?

8. Sometimes it takes someone on the outside to see things clearly.  Just because it's not my fight, doesn't mean I don't see everything going on and can offer a differing opinion you may never have seen for yourself because you are too close to the issue.  My points may be valid too.

 

Yes I am well aware of our past history and I still hold it against you.  However, I am able to maintain a dialogue without resorting to name calling or using offensive memes.  Although why my words caused revulsion considering these have been the first interactions I have EVER had with you...

 

[Akane Nacht]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think we may be getting a bit hung up on semantics here.

Somewhat, but word precision matters in a medium where we can't read any non verbal cues. In my comment I was offering a strategy of how to live in a world where there are people we deem to be "bad" for whatever reason, and still maintain some inner peace, and not become "bad" ourselves by dwelling on anger. That's all.

[Innula Zenovka]

7 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

5.  Protesting is one thing.  Looting, destroying businesses and killing innocent people is NOT protesting.  That is criminal behaviour.  George Floyd was not a good black man.  But he did not deserve to die as he did.  He certainly does not deserve to be held up as a martyr for a cause that matters.  David Dorn was an exceptionally good black man.  And he did not deserve to die as he did.  He deserves the outrage and outpouring of emotions and support.  But where is it?  Nowhere, because he was killed by a black man looting a store "protesting" BLM.  

For a different perspective, you might want to take a look at this article I saw today, which I found extremely interesting:  'Riots', 'mobs', 'chaos': the establishment always frames change as dangerous:

Quote

In 1822, in Charleston, South Carolina, the freed carpenter Denmark Vesey planned a revolt among enslaved people timed to go off on Bastille Day, 14 July – a choice freighted with the symbolism of liberty. He did not seek rioting or “chaos” or an overthrow of the government, but simple freedom for his allies. The plot was foiled and Vesey was executed. 

A similar motive of simple freedom inspired the literate preacher Nat Turner to gather a band of like-minded enslaved people and fight against the dominant slaveholding structure in Southampton county, Virginia, in 1831. One of the first uses of the Insurrection Act, in fact, was a panicked response to this effort. President Andrew Jackson sent artillery and soldiers to Norfolk and other surrounding cities. (They never saw action, and their presence was eventually regarded by local white residents as less a comfort than a top-down menace.)

In all these rebellions, enslaved people understood realpolitik as well as any diplomat. The power structure does not agree to reform itself out of benevolence. There is instead a cost/benefit analysis at work. At some point, the trouble and expense of maintaining a clearly broken system outweighs the costs of reform and concession. 

This was what finally convinced the British parliament to emancipate 800,000 enslaved people in the Caribbean after the Jamaican uprising. Most of the organizers did not live to see it, but they testified from their jail cells about their crystal-clear goals. “Liberty is sweet,” Samuel Cunningham told his interrogator.