How to kid proof SL

[Wulfie Reanimator]

7 hours ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

I believe there's some laws that restrict people under a certain age into virtual worlds. Even major MMOs have a lower age restriction.

I'm 99.9% sure there's nothing about virtual worlds that would make them "illegal" for underage people.

It probably comes down to the user-generated nature which allows for largely unregulatable content. Anybody can waltz into a PG sim and throw hardcore porn on the screen. Also the whole "real money economy" and gambling sims. 

Which MMOs are you talking about by the way?

7 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

there is already a mobile app that can be used by anyone and has a presence in world... lumiya

Lumiya is old, dead, and buried. Just use SpeedLight as a better example.

7 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

That website is shady as heck..

Buzzwords buzzwords buzzwords, definitely looks like a scam.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

3 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Lumiya is old, dead, and buried. Just use LightSpeed as a better example.

its not dead and buried you can still find it and use it on low end phones and tablets. sure it has not been updated in two years but that doesnt mean its useless to everyone.

the point is that there is a mobile app already that can provide a presence, just not a lot of people know about or how to find it because it was taken off the google play store but it can still be found 

lumiya

it gives a limited view of the world and has a nice side feature it can be run in vr mode

[LittleMe Jewell]

I have no doubt that LL could create a region that is completely isolated from the rest of SL that could be used by a company for a virtual camp.  It would not be that difficult for them to set things up such that the region is not accessible via regular SL inworld and anyone on said region could not get out to normal SL at all.  

Back in March, when COVID-19 caused everyone to start working from home and schools to move to a virtual learning environment, LL started advertising their services for Educational purposes, as well as promoting the virtual world for corporations.  There is no way some business would have anything to do with an LL virtual world unless LL could guarantee that they were locked off from regular SL -- and doing that lock off would not be that difficult for LL to achieve.

Thus the virtual camp could be totally legitimate and be using LL resources and be built via the SL building blocks, but still be totally separated from SL.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I have no doubt that LL could create a region that is completely isolated from the rest of SL that could be used by a company for a virtual camp.  It would not be that difficult for them to set things up such that the region is not accessible via regular SL inworld and anyone on said region could not get out to normal SL at all.  

Back in March, when COVID-19 caused everyone to start working from home and schools to move to a virtual learning environment, LL started advertising their services for Educational purposes, as well as promoting the virtual world for corporations.  There is no way some business would have anything to do with an LL virtual world unless LL could guarantee that they were locked off from regular SL -- and doing that lock off would not be that difficult for LL to achieve.

Thus the virtual camp could be totally legitimate and be using LL resources and be built via the SL building blocks, but still be totally separated from SL.

Good point. We think of LL for SL, but they're capable of developing custom solutions for education or whatever need there is.

[Axel UwU]

I think there are games for kids already. One i heard about is Roblox.

[Sammy Huntsman]

To be quite honest. Unless there is direct parental supervision, and the kids are limited to certain rated regions. So parents would have to set all that up, plus their account. That and be online with them. So turn it into something like family time in SL. Kids should not be in SL period.

[Arielle Popstar]

2 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Lumiya is old, dead, and buried. Just use LightSpeed as a better example.

 

Definitely premature on that. Lumiya is head and shoulders above any other mobile solution.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

5 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

its not dead and buried you can still find it and use it on low end phones and tablets. sure it has not been updated in two years but that doesnt mean its useless to everyone.

3 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Definitely premature on that. Lumiya is head and shoulders above any other mobile solution.

Just because you can still find download links for it doesn't mean it isn't dead/abandoned. I would much rather direct people towards mobile solutions that are in active development.

[Arielle Popstar]

5 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Just because you can still find download links for it doesn't mean it isn't dead/abandoned. I would much rather direct people towards mobile solutions that are in active development.

Fair point but until those in active development are close to the usability level of an older solution, I feel it is only fair to let potential users know it is still working.

[Lucia Nightfire]

7 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I can not believe you are promoting a site that actively allows 7 year olds in SL.. You are promoting the breaking of the TOS.

That website is shady as heck.. Says nothing about SL anywhere on it. If you call the number you get a recording saying "Hi this is (some guys name) please leave a message or text the number for a faster reply." Nothing about the business, Camp or anything. $300USD a week for a SL camp? Never mind they cant legally have 7 year olds in SL. 

How can it possibly be a "real summer camp" if its virtual? They are charging their "campers" the cost of a full sims tier in one week. Talk about over charging. 

Shady as heck.. 

They want a boat load of RL info before telling you anything as well. Methinks LL needs to be notified of these sims.  They opened a month ago.. their camp director is 34 days old.. Completely blank profile.

Yeah, wouldnt touch that with a 39 1/2 foot pole.

Looks like Chris Hansen is taking "auditions" for a new online series. 😆

[Parhelion Palou]

20 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I have no doubt that LL could create a region that is completely isolated from the rest of SL that could be used by a company for a virtual camp.  It would not be that difficult for them to set things up such that the region is not accessible via regular SL inworld and anyone on said region could not get out to normal SL at all.  

Back in March, when COVID-19 caused everyone to start working from home and schools to move to a virtual learning environment, LL started advertising their services for Educational purposes, as well as promoting the virtual world for corporations.  There is no way some business would have anything to do with an LL virtual world unless LL could guarantee that they were locked off from regular SL -- and doing that lock off would not be that difficult for LL to achieve.

Thus the virtual camp could be totally legitimate and be using LL resources and be built via the SL building blocks, but still be totally separated from SL.

That exists, but it costs a lot. An organization can still set up region(s) that are completely separate from the rest of SL. The only people who can get there are signed up (using the Registration API) via the organization itself. They cannot go anywhere outside the region(s) and can't access the Marketplace. Companies used it back when SL was still in its hype wave; the company I worked for had one.

The COPPA Act, which only allows children under 13 to give out personal information with their parents' permission, would still apply but perhaps the organization would be the responsible party rather than LL. In that case LL might allow it.

[Claireschen Hesten]

21 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I can not believe you are promoting a site that actively allows 7 year olds in SL.. You are promoting the breaking of the TOS.

That website is shady as heck.. Says nothing about SL anywhere on it. If you call the number you get a recording saying "Hi this is (some guys name) please leave a message or text the number for a faster reply." Nothing about the business, Camp or anything. $300USD a week for a SL camp? Never mind they cant legally have 7 year olds in SL. 

By the looks of the video running as the site background they are using Campwich forest the lodge in Bellisseria to promote their summer camp i highly doubt any camp based activities will take place there, there are peoples private caravans houseboats and traditional houses within camable distance. adult items could easily be on show or an owner might not have their privacy set up right and be using items with adult animations in which other people can see them using 

[Garnet Psaltery]

22 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I can not believe you are promoting a site that actively allows 7 year olds in SL.. You are promoting the breaking of the TOS.

That website is shady as heck.. Says nothing about SL anywhere on it. If you call the number you get a recording saying "Hi this is (some guys name) please leave a message or text the number for a faster reply." Nothing about the business, Camp or anything. $300USD a week for a SL camp? Never mind they cant legally have 7 year olds in SL. 

[ ]

How can it possibly be a "real summer camp" if its virtual? They are charging their "campers" the cost of a full sims tier in one week. Talk about over charging. 

[ ]

Shady as heck.. 

They want a boat load of RL info before telling you anything as well. Methinks LL needs to be notified of these sims.  They opened a month ago.. their camp director is 34 days old.. Completely blank profile.

Yeah, wouldnt touch that with a 39 1/2 foot pole.

They have a really swish office in Denver.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Garnet Psaltery

[Polenth Yue]

Outside of that camp looking very shady, the money would be better spent on other things. You'd get a lot more from a PS4 and some games. It also has a VR system and games all ready to go. There's no need to rush into multiplayer online games/worlds.

[Istelathis]

If you have your heart set on Second Life, I think your safest and cheapest option is to host a few regions on your own computer, using opensim.  You wouldn't be breaking anyone's rules, because you would be hosting it on your own network and not connecting it to other people's grids.  It is actually pretty easy to setup, I believe you both should be able to connect to it locally and keep it local as well.  I've used it in the past, and had a lot of fun creating my own regions for free.

 

https://outworldz.com/Outworldz_installer/

 

I never tried to network with it though, so I'm not sure how difficult it would be to connect two computers to it.  I have considered loading it to my rpi in the past, but am unsure how well it would run and never did investigate it very far.

[Elinah Iredell]

On 6/8/2020 at 1:22 PM, halebore Aeon said:

To be quite honest. Unless there is direct parental supervision, and the kids are limited to certain rated regions. So parents would have to set all that up, plus their account. That and be online with them. So turn it into something like family time in SL. Kids should not be in SL period.

That is what I was saying, that I trust this mother to be able to supervise and protect her daughter on her own land ( perhaps on a skybox island far away from anyone else) with contact completely restricted . Making sure her daughter does not even know the password, to access the game. Letting her dress up her avatar ,decorate her house , and play with mom in the game.  I just wanted to express that  I trusted a mom's supervision. That was just my opinion. When I was growing up I played with dolls and had a dollhouse with pretty furniture. I  think I would have loved the idea of an interactive dress up and decorate game.  I think second life can be used for much more then just adult behavior but I do understand that protections are not yet in place for that and I understand why everyone is telling me it is not safe. 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

On 6/9/2020 at 11:46 AM, Claireschen Hesten said:

By the looks of the video running as the site background they are using Campwich forest the lodge in Bellisseria to promote their summer camp i highly doubt any camp based activities will take place there, there are peoples private caravans houseboats and traditional houses within camable distance. adult items could easily be on show or an owner might not have their privacy set up right and be using items with adult animations in which other people can see them using 

They have 6 sims i believe.. http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Camp Virtual SW/128/128/2 Whether or not adult items are present doesn't really matter. they are promoting 7 year olds in SL. @Dakota Linden you might want to take a look at this place.. https://www.campvirtual.com/ Promoting SL to RL aged kids from 7-17.. 

[Claireschen Hesten]

2 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

They have 6 sims i believe.. http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Camp Virtual SW/128/128/2 Whether or not adult items are present doesn't really matter. they are promoting 7 year olds in SL.

If these regions can only be accessed by people linked to the camp it's all PG and they can't teleport elsewhere as much as I don't like that SL being promoted to 7 year olds I'm more ok with that. It's just very prominent that they are using Campwich Forest to promote their camp, prospective parents familiar with SL may think activities will take place there. before seeing their YouTube clip I was surprised they might be allowed to use Campwich with what's around it.

[LittleMe Jewell]

IMO, they are not promoting SL, they are promoting a virtual camp that is using an SL-like setup.  If that set of regions is totally locked out of all other SL -- i.e.. nobody there can TP out of those regions and nobody can TP in - then it is truly separated from everything else.   They are also very likely using a modified viewer or a browser based viewer to access it, and that viewer probably does not have all of the functions of a regular SL viewer -- like no big map that sees the rest of SL, no links to the MP, etc...   

So unless someone already knows about SL, I doubt that anyone within that virtual camp would make the association.  

I have no doubt that LL fully vetted this with their lawyers to ensure that they are totally in compliance with all of our laws around children online.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

4 hours ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

If these regions can only be accessed by people linked to the camp it's all PG and they can't teleport elsewhere as much as I don't like that SL being promoted to 7 year olds I'm more ok with that. It's just very prominent that they are using Campwich Forest to promote their camp, prospective parents familiar with SL may think activities will take place there. before seeing their YouTube clip I was surprised they might be allowed to use Campwich with what's around it.

It doesnt matter how much we are semi ok with this or not.. Its against the TOS for anyone under 16 (13 on a school run sim) to be in SL. I dont even want the thought that 7 years olds are in SL. Can anyone picture the hell that would erupt in the media if this came out? People already think SL is a paedo haven.. We dont need this BS added to it. RL 7 year olds should be at the park with their friends. 

1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

IMO, they are not promoting SL, they are promoting a virtual camp that is using an SL-like setup.  If that set of regions is totally locked out of all other SL -- i.e.. nobody there can TP out of those regions and nobody can TP in - then it is truly separated from everything else.   They are also very likely using a modified viewer or a browser based viewer to access it, and that viewer probably does not have all of the functions of a regular SL viewer -- like no big map that sees the rest of SL, no links to the MP, etc...   

So unless someone already knows about SL, I doubt that anyone within that virtual camp would make the association.  

I have no doubt that LL fully vetted this with their lawyers to ensure that they are totally in compliance with all of our laws around children online.

They arent "using an SL-like setup" they are using SL.

I have no doubt that LL knows nothing of this. The director of the camp has a completely blank profile and it 39 days old. How exactly to you lock a sim so no one can TP out? Why do you think they are using a modified viewer? So, they created a brand new viewer that isnt on ANY of the TPV lists and is charging $300 USD a week for a virtual camp where 7 year olds can mingle with 17 year olds yet somehow you think LL is ok with this? You really think LL would allow this shady as heck cam to run in SL in direct violation of their own TOS for the cost of 6 estate islands? I highly doubt it. 

I tried to TP there. It said i wasn't on the access list.  At a guess, they allow the "kids" that pay $300 in on a weekly basis. Over the past week i have looked at their sims on the map at various times, never saw more than 3 people on all of them over that time. Why anyone would pay $300 USd for a week at a virtual camp when a RL camp costs about the same is beyond me. 

[Jaylinbridges]

Judging by the latest youtube videos of the lodge, it looks like the SL moles gave them a copy of the empty Campwich lodge in Bellisseria.  Maybe the part-time moles have picked another landscaping project on the side.  The joined regions are all General rated, and not accessible by SL members.   Restricting access in and out of a region is trivial in SL.  It's up to the parents to prevent an underage (<16) child from getting an actual SL account.   And I agree, LL must be fully aware of this project, and are making extra income from the land fees and special restrictions.  My only concern is mixing 7 to 17 in the same estate.  That happens in RL camp though, some counselers are under 18, but parents send their kids to camps anyway. Or maybe they will bracket age groups scheduled for different weeks.  Be interesting to see if it works.  Lots of green dots on the regions this summer should tell that.  

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Jaylinbridges

[LittleMe Jewell]

5 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

It doesnt matter how much we are semi ok with this or not.. Its against the TOS for anyone under 16 (13 on a school run sim) to be in SL. I dont even want the thought that 7 years olds are in SL. Can anyone picture the hell that would erupt in the media if this came out? People already think SL is a paedo haven.. We dont need this BS added to it. RL 7 year olds should be at the park with their friends. 

They arent "using an SL-like setup" they are using SL.

I have no doubt that LL knows nothing of this. The director of the camp has a completely blank profile and it 39 days old. How exactly to you lock a sim so no one can TP out? Why do you think they are using a modified viewer? So, they created a brand new viewer that isnt on ANY of the TPV lists and is charging $300 USD a week for a virtual camp where 7 year olds can mingle with 17 year olds yet somehow you think LL is ok with this? You really think LL would allow this shady as heck cam to run in SL in direct violation of their own TOS for the cost of 6 estate islands? I highly doubt it. 

I tried to TP there. It said i wasn't on the access list.  At a guess, they allow the "kids" that pay $300 in on a weekly basis. Over the past week i have looked at their sims on the map at various times, never saw more than 3 people on all of them over that time. Why anyone would pay $300 USd for a week at a virtual camp when a RL camp costs about the same is beyond me. 

Well, you did ping Dakota above, so if it is not legit, the regions will disappear soon.

 

[Jaylinbridges]

9 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

have no doubt that LL knows nothing of this.

Well it's been around for about 4 weeks already.  If LL knows nothing of this, they should now  If they restricted the age to 16 and 17, and they stayed in General regions, it would be legal according to the TOS.  Why would anyone spend a few thousand USD on a project that was illegal and would be shut down by LL in seconds if it was not approved?

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Jaylinbridges

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

towards the legality of it there are no actual laws that prevent minors from playing any mmo or rpg or anything similar, to sl. that is purely a company policy.

the esrb is powerless to prevent or do anything about any company that allows it.

[Whirly Fizzle]

1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

They are also very likely using a modified viewer or a browser based viewer to access it, and that viewer probably does not have all of the functions of a regular SL viewer -- like no big map that sees the rest of SL, no links to the MP, etc...   

I just want to confirm that this is the case.
The organizers have been in contact with the Firestorm team re the modified viewer.
Linden Lab are well aware of Camp Virtual & it was even mentioned by LL at a recent public usergroup.

There is honestly no drama to see here 

Edit to add:  Also remember that it is possible to lock down accounts to a certain estate. This is done regularly for educational institutions that use SL for students, many under 18 years of age.
These accounts cannot leave the regions on the estate, cannot communicate with any avatar not locked to their estate etc. They are totally locked down in every way to regions within their estate and from communication into or out of their estate or avatar group.
 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Whirly Fizzle