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Pris Aquila

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Hi, I'm an old resident, but am on SL very infrequently and noticed there are new ways to create things. That being "mesh". I have no idea how to convert my avatar to a mesh one. Could someone explain this new feature on SL to me? Thanks.

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When it comes to mesh avatars, you can generally say that they come as a body and a head. However, the majority of these bodies and heads are not free. Heads average at about 5,000 L$ and bodies vary wildly, but I would say between 1,250 and 2,500 for female avatars.

Rarely can you buy a body from a head creator and vice versa.

Bodies and heads come in a wide variety, most of them have their own characteristics to work off of, like there are bodies that are more suited for a petite build, other ones are moree suited for a more chunky or fleshy shape.

When you have a mesh body and a head (let's call it a combo) that you like, you will want a skin. We now have Bakes on Mesh (BoM) which basically lets you wear system skins and clothing on mesh body parts. The old skins have the issue that they came with nails painted on, and that usually causes funny looking smudges on hands and feet (not a problem if you, like me, usually wear closed toe shoes and gloves) so people nowadays want to go with a BoM skin.

Anyway, not I get to the part where I will give you the advice of which combo to get. My advice is to NOT listen to anyone's opinion of what is best. Most, if not all, creators of mesh body parts offer demos with which you can try out the features and the look on your avatar. Note that your current shape, which you probably painstakingly edited to match your taste, is unlikely to make the mesh look good on you. So either use the shape that comes with the head or body, or make a new one from scratch.

And as always, get demos. The more demos you pick up, the better. It allows you to make an informed choice and lets you choose the parts that are the most "you".

 

P.S. Occasionally you can pick up some free or VERY cheap heads or bodies here and there.  Feel free to IM me in-world so I can shoot you some LMs to help you on your way.

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Thank you so much for the explanation. It seems pretty complicated, but it helps to know about heads and bodies. Sounds like if I like the way I look with the old style avatar (simply shapes and skins) and heads being so expensive, I could just stay this way 😆

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2 hours ago, Pris Aquila said:

Thank you so much for the explanation. It seems pretty complicated, but it helps to know about heads and bodies. Sounds like if I like the way I look with the old style avatar (simply shapes and skins) and heads being so expensive, I could just stay this way 😆

There are a bunch of mesh avatars in your inventory library.  You could use those as a starting point to see what all the fuss is about.  There are some pretty cute ones!

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28 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said:

There are a bunch of mesh avatars in your inventory library.  You could use those as a starting point to see what all the fuss is about.  There are some pretty cute ones!

Thank you, I did not know that!

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7 minutes ago, Pris Aquila said:

Thank you, I did not know that!

Just go through them, the newer ones are super cute and have some cool accessories

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Posted (edited)

The Library's mesh avatars are difficult to customize. I suppose the reason for that, is that people will buy something else when they run into the fact that no clothes fit them, except the clothes they come with. But is a lot of nice hairstyles, shoes and such with them, that can fit other. At least the hairs.

Your post gives me the impression you haven't worn mesh clothes either? You should start to experiment with mesh clothes that comes with the Library avatars that is not mesh, that has the same kind of shape and skin that you have now.

It is many things to learn, if I am correct and you have not used SL for many years. Were you here when Linden Lab introduced tattoo layers, the alpha layer, give us the option to wear multiple layers and objects by selecting "Add" not "Wear"? I would start there and not think about mesh avatars itself. Unfortunately for you, the most of clothes, avatar appearance and accessories is made for mesh avatars.

Another thing - you get demos for almost everything you wear. If you can't get a demo and try it on first, that is suspicious. Of course there is no need to demo free stuff, since you do not pay for it. You wear clothes and accessories made for that body part you have bought. But if you do not have a mesh body or head, you shop for "classic" avatars, "standard sizes" and layers.

Here is a blog that has the category "Second Life Steals, Deals and Freebies". It is updated frequently. Currently, the cheapest deal for a mesh head (female) is 55 L: https://ryanschultz.com/2020/05/31/second-life-steals-deals-and-freebies-the-cat-calm-bento-mesh-head-from-genesis-lab/

and a mesh body, 1 L. You see that look for 56 L in the bottom post, the one where she is wearing a gold dress. So I suggest you look in that category to get some cheap clothes and update your avatar. It is also the FabFree blog. https://fabfree.wordpress.com/

I have the 1 L meshbody "Classic"* on an alt, and it is not impossible to dress it. But all mesh bodies is a bit different, clothes made for other brand names does not fit it. Designers are creating multiple versions of the same clothing, for the different bodies. Or some creators decide it is too much work, and only create for the 1-3 most popular ones.

*It is damned annoying that a meshbody is named "Classic" when we also say that the pre-mesh avatars are classic. It makes things more confusing.

Edited by Marianne Little
added the last part after * plus a few more words, trying to explain better.
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

Currently, the cheapest deal for a mesh head (female) is 55 L: https://ryanschultz.com/2020/05/31/second-life-steals-deals-and-freebies-the-cat-calm-bento-mesh-head-from-genesis-lab/

and a mesh body, 1 L.

Actually, if you look around in that store that has the 55L head (which I own), you will find another head for 20L (which I also own 🙂 ). 
As for the cheapest body, there is a body on offer as a Midnight Mania prize, which is mesh compatible to Maitreya, if the target is hit, the body will be delivered for free (normally for sale for 3,000L).

There is also a free open source body, the body looks good, but the head is.... meh.

Note that I am deliberately not naming stores or brands or models, but names and LMs can be given in IM in-world or in a PM on the forum.

Edited by Fritigern Gothly
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On 6/6/2020 at 2:38 AM, Marianne Little said:

The Library's mesh avatars are difficult to customize. I suppose the reason for that, is that people will buy something else when they run into the fact that no clothes fit them, except the clothes they come with. But is a lot of nice hairstyles, shoes and such with them, that can fit other. At least the hairs.

Your post gives me the impression you haven't worn mesh clothes either? You should start to experiment with mesh clothes that comes with the Library avatars that is not mesh, that has the same kind of shape and skin that you have now.

It is many things to learn, if I am correct and you have not used SL for many years. Were you here when Linden Lab introduced tattoo layers, the alpha layer, give us the option to wear multiple layers and objects by selecting "Add" not "Wear"? I would start there and not think about mesh avatars itself. Unfortunately for you, the most of clothes, avatar appearance and accessories is made for mesh avatars.

Another thing - you get demos for almost everything you wear. If you can't get a demo and try it on first, that is suspicious. Of course there is no need to demo free stuff, since you do not pay for it. You wear clothes and accessories made for that body part you have bought. But if you do not have a mesh body or head, you shop for "classic" avatars, "standard sizes" and layers.

Here is a blog that has the category "Second Life Steals, Deals and Freebies". It is updated frequently. Currently, the cheapest deal for a mesh head (female) is 55 L: https://ryanschultz.com/2020/05/31/second-life-steals-deals-and-freebies-the-cat-calm-bento-mesh-head-from-genesis-lab/

and a mesh body, 1 L. You see that look for 56 L in the bottom post, the one where she is wearing a gold dress. So I suggest you look in that category to get some cheap clothes and update your avatar. It is also the FabFree blog. https://fabfree.wordpress.com/

I have the 1 L meshbody "Classic"* on an alt, and it is not impossible to dress it. But all mesh bodies is a bit different, clothes made for other brand names does not fit it. Designers are creating multiple versions of the same clothing, for the different bodies. Or some creators decide it is too much work, and only create for the 1-3 most popular ones.

*It is damned annoying that a meshbody is named "Classic" when we also say that the pre-mesh avatars are classic. It makes things more confusing.

Thank you for your advice! Yes, you are right, I have not worn any mesh clothing that I know of.

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Posted (edited)

I'm in the same situation as the OP.  I've been in SL for years but not very active the last few, feels like the world has moved on. 🙂 

I like the original avatar I have, classic,  it's me and I have no wish to change it, but I'd like to play around with one of my alts to see what's out there in new clothes and animations. As I understand, I'm looking for a mesh body and a Bento head plus skins for each?  The head and the body can be from different creators, but the skins would need to come from the same place for the skin tones to match.  I've seen skins that I like but they rarely tell you the head that it's pictured with.  I've only tried a couple demos but I cant seem to adjust them to look as I want.  Then there's aos for faces that only work with some heads.  Seems like there are tons of choices in creators out there but at this point I'm pretty confused.  Any hints on how to make this any easier?  

I'v been wearing mesh clothes, but am now finding that clothes are gear to certain bodies, adding to my confusion, not to mention eyes and all sorts of other "appliers"

Edited by Aislin Keynes
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On 6/6/2020 at 4:34 AM, Fritigern Gothly said:

Actually, if you look around in that store that has the 55L head (which I own), you will find another head for 20L (which I also own 🙂 ). 
As for the cheapest body, there is a body on offer as a Midnight Mania prize, which is mesh compatible to Maitreya, if the target is hit, the body will be delivered for free (normally for sale for 3,000L).

There is also a free open source body, the body looks good, but the head is.... meh.

Note that I am deliberately not naming stores or brands or models, but names and LMs can be given in IM in-world or in a PM on the forum.

Thanks, Fritgern! I had a questions for you. I tried the demo for a LAQ head. Is the whole point of these new heads the mocap expressions? Can I still use my animation overrides for ways of moving? I also wonder when I wear the alpha layers to block out the system body, is this wear I need to find a BOM skin and special mesh clothes?

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Just now, Aislin Keynes said:

I'm in the same situation as the OP.  I've been in SL for years but not very active the last few, feels like the world has moved on. 🙂 

I like the original avatar I have, classic,  it's me and I have no wish to change it, but I'd like to play around with one of my alts to see what's out there in new clothes and animations. As I understand, I'm looking for a mesh body and a Bento head plus skins for each?  The head and the body can be from different creators, but the skins would need to come from the same place for the skin tones to match.  I've seen skins that I like but they rarely tell you the head that it's pictured with.  I've only tried a couple demos but I cant seem to adjust them to look as I want.  Then there's aos for faces that only work with some heads.  Seems like there are tons of choices in creators out there but at this point I'm pretty confused.  Any hints on how to make this any easier?  

Yes, same here. I've been around since early 2000s, but take long breaks. It's amazing all the advancements that have happened. What's funny is my son laughed looking over my shoulder saying "Wow it looks so primitive!" I laughed and said no way, it's way complicated! 😆

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27 minutes ago, Pris Aquila said:

Thanks, Fritgern! I had a questions for you. I tried the demo for a LAQ head. Is the whole point of these new heads the mocap expressions?

The point of Bento heads does seem to be that it enables you to user custom facial expressions, something which is not possible with the old system shapes/bodies. Remember how we used to have a limited range of facial expressions? A skilled animator can now make you wink while you stick out your tongue for example. But Bento does more. It adds new "bones" to the body that can be animated. These bones are invisible to us, but there now are bones for the breasts, the butt, individual fingers, tails, extra legs, wings, etc. 

28 minutes ago, Pris Aquila said:

Can I still use my animation overrides for ways of moving?

Absolutely! It would be kind of silly if you couldn't 🙂 And no, they (usually) do not get in the way of other animations!

29 minutes ago, Pris Aquila said:

I also wonder when I wear the alpha layers to block out the system body, is this wear I need to find a BOM skin and special mesh clothes?

With BoM you don't even need to wear alphas, it automatically hides the system body and applies the system layers to your mesh head or body.

In fact, if you wear an alpha layer with a BoM-enabled mesh, the part that the alpha is supposed to hide will show up as bright red. So if you wear a BoM enable mesh head, and you wear an alpha layer to hide that head, your head will be bright red until you take off the alpha layer.
There are only a handful mesh bodies where you can use alpha layers to hide parts of the body, but as a general rule, alpha layers cause the body parts to turn red and should not be used.

 

Any more questions, feel free to ask 🙂

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Posted (edited)

For both @Pris Aquilaand @Aislin Keynes.

Different brands of Bento heads comes with their own "facial AO". The most popular brands (and expensive) have static expressions, for posing, full face animation where the avatar wink and point their tongue (<---- like me) and also moods that have names like coy, shy, flirty, neutral, relaxed, pensive... These will let your face be animated all the time in the ways you selected. Instead of having one animation, like the random "Smiler" for classic avatars, these are complex and if you select more than one mood, it gives you a very varied face.

The Bento heads let you adjust your face with the sliders, but not so much as your classic head. Different brands can opt out of some sliders, like jowls. You can still adjust your face, but it is best to pick a face you think is close to your look. Things like eyes and mouth respond well to sliders. You should always use the included shape, because the rigging are very specific and you will probably look like a monster with your regular shape. If you want to look like your classic head, it is recommended to stand on a pose stand and take a closeup picture of your classic head face and place that face texture on a prim next to your mesh head. Then you can work on the mesh head and compare it with your classic look with ease.

All mesh head demos let you edit them, and also wear demo skins with them. It is the combined effect of head + skin + editing of the head that makes us originals and not clones.

You may like how the head looks after you edited it, but the body is not what you want. The only way to do this, is to wear the shape you had before you put on the mesh head, and write down the measurements and change the body.

I will try to explain what BOM is... your mesh bodyparts used to cover your avatar and you had to hide the old avatar. All layers under the mesh bodyparts was not visible, so we had to start with appliers that replaced the system layers on our classic body with onion layers over the body and makeup slots on the head.

Linden Lab then made a new feature called BOM that let the system layers show up on the mesh bodyparts. Your mesh body parts behave as your system body when BOM is activated for the mesh. So now we can opt out of appliers. We take off the alpha layer included with the mesh bodypart. Then we activate BOM, it is found in the HUD that match the bodypart. For Catwa, it is in the HUD named "Master Hud" on the "skins" page where you can select skins that are included with the head. You find a small button named BOM on this page. Now, your default old skin are showing on your mesh head... like magic. 😊

Same for bodies, Maitreya also has the BOM button on the pace where you select skins. You can admire your old skin on a smoother mesh body and head with expressions.

But maybe you will be disappointed. It does not look like you thought it would look. Each mesh head has its own topography. Especially around nostrils, eye corners and mouth corners. It can show as an unattractive stretch or pinch these places. A skin designer has shown how one of the system skins look on 3 different mesh heads: https://www.flickr.com/photos/deetalez/48793553621/

This is why many buy new BOM skins that are made for the head they wear. These new skins will fit correct.

There are many BOM "fixers" that can save your old skin, if you feel very attached to it. A common problem is drawn on lashes, they look like dirty streaks now that you have perfect, blinking mesh lashes. They sell concealers for under eye lashes and eyelid changers for smudgy eyelids, nose fix, and many, many more things.

The system avatar feet is a paddle without individual toes, and the drawn on nails on pre-mesh skins look wrong. There are fixes for this too.

You have to decide now, shall you say bye-bye to your old skin or try to fix it. The best fix'es comes with demos, so you can see how it works, before you buy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I recommend that you wait with the head, and use a body first with your old, classic head. Ease into mesh. The body is easier because you can wear it with your old shape, it is not so different rigged as a head. You will change some parts here and there, adjust breast buoyancy, hips, etc.. But it will not be so big a job with editing. Using toe and finger fixers is easy compared to changing the look of a head. Using BOM on the body will give it a seamless neck, so it will not look strange. Pick the body you like best, and also filter with body name in the Marketplace, how much is made for this body? You can buy all the new clothes made for the body you pick. And it is sales every weekend, where you can buy things to reduced prices. Plus gifts and hunts.

You can also wear your old tattoos, I am using a GoK tattoo that must be 10 years old, with different tattoo layers that let me customize my avatar well. We can wear up to 62 layers. Plus, the most heads and bodies still let you wear appliers. You can have a base lipstick on a tattoo layer and a gloss as an applier over it....

 

 

tattoo lay_002.jpg

Edited by Marianne Little
changed a few words to clarify
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@Fritigern Gothly and @Marianne LittleThanks so much for all the info! I guess my bottom line is I want to keep my current face/head, because it is what I've perfected over the years to look like the idealized version of IRL. I suppose I could forgo the mocap Bento heads for now because I don't know if I'll be able to find a head that looks like a Southeast Asian female 😆

So, is it a thing to laugh at avatars that are still "system"? I mean, I don't care, but I wonder if there is something like that going on now?

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23 minutes ago, Pris Aquila said:

@Fritigern Gothly and @Marianne LittleThanks so much for all the info! I guess my bottom line is I want to keep my current face/head, because it is what I've perfected over the years to look like the idealized version of IRL. I suppose I could forgo the mocap Bento heads for now because I don't know if I'll be able to find a head that looks like a Southeast Asian female 😆

So, is it a thing to laugh at avatars that are still "system"? I mean, I don't care, but I wonder if there is something like that going on now?

Some say they are discriminated or laughed at. I know of one adult place that does not allow people in unless they have a mesh body. I suppose it is so the visitors have more smooth bodies to look at. To get IMs from interested people is probably easier the more sexy you look as in smooth curves and realistic parts. Then there are probably some "mean girls" in clubs, who only buy the newest stuff.

I think the hardest part without a mesh body, would be that it is impossible to find new, pretty shoes for a system avatar, and clothing options are limited.

A southeast Asian head would depend upon the skin more than the head, I think. It is many female Asian skins. I do not know what that is the characteristics for a particular part of Asia, I only know that some parts have darker skin. The majority of Asian skins in SL is super pale, but I believe you can find skins as dark as your avatar.

 

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4 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Some say they are discriminated or laughed at. I know of one adult place that does not allow people in unless they have a mesh body. I suppose it is so the visitors have more smooth bodies to look at. To get IMs from interested people is probably easier the more sexy you look as in smooth curves and realistic parts. Then there are probably some "mean girls" in clubs, who only buy the newest stuff.

I think the hardest part without a mesh body, would be that it is impossible to find new, pretty shoes for a system avatar, and clothing options are limited.

A southeast Asian head would depend upon the skin more than the head, I think. It is many female Asian skins. I do not know what that is the characteristics for a particular part of Asia, I only know that some parts have darker skin. The majority of Asian skins in SL is super pale, but I believe you can find skins as dark as your avatar.

 

Ah, yes I figured there would be some discrimination going on and I definitely want to be able to find nice clothes and shoes, so that is why I'm looking into trying to update. 

I found this, looks pretty close to what I'm looking for except I wouldn't want that big of a booty. Would something like this be tweaked, like the nose and can mesh body be made smaller booty?

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Sap-Bunga-Shape-Genus-Project-Classic-Bento-Head/15183985

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4 minutes ago, Pris Aquila said:

Ah, yes I figured there would be some discrimination going on and I definitely want to be able to find nice clothes and shoes, so that is why I'm looking into trying to update. 

I found this, looks pretty close to what I'm looking for except I wouldn't want that big of a booty. Would something like this be tweaked, like the nose and can mesh body be made smaller booty?

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Sap-Bunga-Shape-Genus-Project-Classic-Bento-Head/15183985

That is the shape only, not the mesh body and head. You need to buy them to look like this. In my opinion, you only need this to get the style card so you can find the skin and other parts.

There are 2 mesh bodies on the MP that I know of, Legacy and Slink (regular and Hourglass). For 2 other popular ones, they are sold only inworld, use inworld search. Type in Maitreya Isle (one body, Maitreya Lara) and the other, Belleza, that has 3 different bodies. It is more bodies, but these are what I remember.

You do not want Belleza Freya, it has a more voluptuous form. It is Isis and Venus too. Get the demos and you will see how you like them. Just adjust the body in appearance, as you will edit a classic shape.

The head is a head that got a DMCA complaint filed against it. It is not for sale now, but the store told its customers that they disputed it and had a lawyer.

So you can wait and hope the store is up again... get the body first. All head brands are compatible with the body necks. All brands I know of. It is possible it is some odd small brand that don't.

If you want the Legacy body, read some Legacy threads in the forum first... It is the most expensive body and the body owners are very divided, hate or love.

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8 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

That is the shape only, not the mesh body and head. You need to buy them to look like this. In my opinion, you only need this to get the style card so you can find the skin and other parts.

There are 2 mesh bodies on the MP that I know of, Legacy and Slink (regular and Hourglass). For 2 other popular ones, they are sold only inworld, use inworld search. Type in Maitreya Isle (one body, Maitreya Lara) and the other, Belleza, that has 3 different bodies. It is more bodies, but these are what I remember.

You do not want Belleza Freya, it has a more voluptuous form. It is Isis and Venus too. Get the demos and you will see how you like them. Just adjust the body in appearance, as you will edit a classic shape.

The head is a head that got a DMCA complaint filed against it. It is not for sale now, but the store told its customers that they disputed it and had a lawyer.

So you can wait and hope the store is up again... get the body first. All head brands are compatible with the body necks. All brands I know of. It is possible it is some odd small brand that don't.

If you want the Legacy body, read some Legacy threads in the forum first... It is the most expensive body and the body owners are very divided, hate or love.

Ah, okay. I will focus on mesh body first.

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I also have a 1 L body on an alt. This is good to experiment on since it is 1 L, what to lose? It does not have clothes that is made for it, but it is possible to find clothes and use alpha layers and alpha cuts. And it can use all Legacy shoes! And others too with the alternative feet. It has some issues, sandals that lace up the leg and boots does not fit. But for an alt, it is good enough. The head is a gift head that's not available now (the brand that got DMCA'ed).

How to get the body here: https://ryanschultz.com/2020/04/17/second-life-steals-deals-and-freebies-the-meshbody-offers-free-versions-of-their-classic-mesh-bodies-for-men-and-women/

The updates that is added to the end of the long post has important info.

shape collage.jpg

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11 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I also have a 1 L body on an alt. This is good to experiment on since it is 1 L, what to lose? It does not have clothes that is made for it, but it is possible to find clothes and use alpha layers and alpha cuts. And it can use all Legacy shoes! And others too with the alternative feet. It has some issues, sandals that lace up the leg and boots does not fit. But for an alt, it is good enough. The head is a gift head that's not available now (the brand that got DMCA'ed).

How to get the body here: https://ryanschultz.com/2020/04/17/second-life-steals-deals-and-freebies-the-meshbody-offers-free-versions-of-their-classic-mesh-bodies-for-men-and-women/

The updates that is added to the end of the long post has important info.

shape collage.jpg

Looks like a nice body!

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5 hours ago, Pris Aquila said:

@Fritigern Gothly and @Marianne LittleThanks so much for all the info! I guess my bottom line is I want to keep my current face/head, because it is what I've perfected over the years to look like the idealized version of IRL. I suppose I could forgo the mocap Bento heads for now because I don't know if I'll be able to find a head that looks like a Southeast Asian female 😆

 

If you would like, I could try and make a head shape which looks like your current head. For that I would need your shape though. I woud try and find a mesh head which is not too expensive but which still looks good, or I could use a head that you like.

Results are not guaranteed, but I must say that I am not too horrible with this.
This is what I did for a friend of mine (her mouth was corrected after the pic was taken. LOL). The system head is on the left, the mesh on the right. 
image.png.d0565d3ee7773faa00dbf74ac6c05ae6.png

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18 minutes ago, Fritigern Gothly said:

If you would like, I could try and make a head shape which looks like your current head. For that I would need your shape though. I woud try and find a mesh head which is not too expensive but which still looks good, or I could use a head that you like.

Results are not guaranteed, but I must say that I am not too horrible with this.
This is what I did for a friend of mine (her mouth was corrected after the pic was taken. LOL). The system head is on the left, the mesh on the right. 
image.png.d0565d3ee7773faa00dbf74ac6c05ae6.png

That's great! Thanks for the offer, but I'm all about learning to do stuff on my own. I appreciate you're availability for questions though! I totally forgot about YouTube, been watching a lot of tutorials.

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