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2 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

But the Boston sculpture, with him bestowing freedom on the slave kneeling at his feet,  is particularly objectionable, I think.

It is as well yes..

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Not as such, no. We don't really have that kind of thing here as, well, our law enforcement seldom gun down people - and whilst I obviously do not condone of it, I'm hesitant to give my 'official' (i.

Alrighty, now that I've gone ahead and cleared out some not so pleasant posts from this thread I wanted to drop a quick note here. As many of you have seen me say several times before, delving in

Thank you for this.   Black woman here.  Of A Certain Age.  I have my BLM shirt.   For whatever that means. (freewheeling it here, went from wanting to say something to not wanting to say anythi

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1 hour ago, Janet Voxel said:

It probably was me. Black women have an extremely high maternal mortality rate, because they tell doctors something is wrong and doctors don't listen, which leads to a lot of unnecessary deaths.

https://www.heart.org/en/news/2019/02/20/why-are-black-women-at-such-high-risk-of-dying-from-pregnancy-complications

Its also funny how that works, believing someone has a higher pain threshold. You'd think even if a doctor believed that, if someone they believed had a high pain tolerance said they were in pain, wouldn't that mean it was serious?

The same also holds true with breast cancer and other diseases or illnesses. The problem is so many already hold this implicit bias towards black people to begin with and it holds true for other forms of institutions in this country. People will fight us tooth and nail on how they don’t have white privilege or how they don’t benefit from anti-black racism or hold anti-black beliefs themselves (this holds true for non-black “POCs” too). 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

The first step is admitting we have a problem.  Too many refuse to acknowledge there even is a problem, or that they play a part in it.

I think many have known since the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960's that there are problems; however, I had never heard what realtors were doing as far as loans to whites, etc and how with the GI BILL, black people did not receive their benefits and were denied.  This with the GI BILL is a very serious crime that was against it's own citizens and should not be left unresolved as it is.  

However, could one of the problems still be the WASP culture?   I also read in the Wikipedia that the WASP culture built our Democrat and Republican system.  It sounds like a very scary thing.  It's a very wealthy culture.  There are some links for books to read about the WASP culture if you type in White Anglo Saxon in your browser.  I think we should fly the flag at half mast or something until our government begins to address the problems that there isn't liberty and justice for all unless it ratifies the situation and certain laws are enacted.  

WHITE ANGLO SAXON PROTESTANTS 

19th-century Anglo-Saxonism

In the nineteenth century, Anglo-Saxons was often used as a synonym for all people of English descent and sometimes more generally, for all the English-speaking peoples of the world. It was often used in implying superiority, much to the annoyance of outsiders. For example, Josiah Strong boasted in 1890:

In 1700 this race numbered less than 6,000,000 souls. In 1800, Anglo-Saxons (I use the term somewhat broadly to include all English-speaking peoples) had increased to about 20,500,000, and now, in 1890, they number more than 120,000,000.[26]

In 1893, Strong envisioned a future "new era" of triumphant Anglo-Saxonism:

Is it not unreasonable to believe that this race is destined to dispossess many weaker ones, assimilate others, and mould the remainder until... it has Anglo-Saxonized mankind?[27]

 

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30 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

However, could one of the problems still be the WASP culture?

Yes I think that Whites, in any form, built their wealth on the backs of People Of Color through stealing aboriginal lands, enslaving People Of Color, and enacting policies which favor themselves. And now it seems POC are expected (as Umair Haque said in the above article I posted) to claw back their fair share.

To solve this problem we have to challenge the notion that it's perfectly okay for those at the top to enjoy obscene levels of wealth and privilege while those at the bottom literally starve.

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11 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:
6 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

I remember talking to someone in my class at university who was indigenous and even she said she was horrified at the amount of people of her own race that, get given so many chances and they don't take it.

This lady seems to agree:

https://www.2gb.com/jacinta-price-shuts-down-un-australian-accusations/

There are conservative Aboriginals and conservative Blacks in America. Surprise!  A conservative will generally focus on the individual as the solution to a problem, while a liberal will focus more on society as the solution.  It's both!  So both of you need to stop making this into an either/or proposition.
Black and white thinking, where a solution has to be all one way or the other, is for dumb people and toddlers!

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6 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

However, could one of the problems still be the WASP culture?   I also read in the Wikipedia that the WASP culture built our Democrat and Republican system.  It sounds like a very scary thing.  It's a very wealthy culture.  There are some links for books to read about the WASP culture if you type in White Anglo Saxon in your browser.  I think we should fly the flag at half mast or something until our government begins to address the problems that there isn't liberty and justice for all unless it ratifies the situation and certain laws are enacted.  

WHITE ANGLO SAXON PROTESTANTS 

19th-century Anglo-Saxonism

In the nineteenth century, Anglo-Saxons was often used as a synonym for all people of English descent and sometimes more generally, for all the English-speaking peoples of the world. It was often used in implying superiority, much to the annoyance of outsiders. For example, Josiah Strong boasted in 1890:

I was reading about this a little bit and I can understand now why the French are not a large body on immigrants in America - the French love their language too much and it's like hell needs to freeze over before the French give up our language.  There aren't many French immigrants in America.  My French grandparents were French Canadian and then immigrated to America.  

It's interesting to note regarding White Anglo-Saxon Protestantism that both Polish and French countries are vastly Catholic.  My ancestors were Polish and French and not privileged in the way a person would think of a privilege; they were dirt poor immigrants with pennies and charity from local farmers.  

I asked my oldest sister once "why does the government want us here?" and her answer to me was "because the government needed consumers".  I wonder if this WASP thing has anything to do with consumerism as Europeans sure do love "stuff" more than many other cultures.  Poland is and was actually a very rich country, and the French sure do love their "stuff" - both are big consumers as the English are.  I'd assume under this premise, Native Americans would not be seen as big consumers for the government.  So, if this premise is possible that governments favor the biggest consumers, I'm wondering if that's why the aboriginal people in Australia are struggling so much too.  

Edit:  I asked my sister the above question at a time when the government was treating us rather crappy but don't want to talk about it.  The thing is I wanted to move back to Canada.  

ETA:  My sister could be quite right.  America was built on consumerism.  Though I don't understand how Black people would have been thought to be not as much of a "consumer".  As far as aboriginal people, it has logic to it.  

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Oxford University Press, 380 pages, $30

It is well-established that we Americans have created the world's greatest consumer nation. Consumer spending is a vital sign of our economy. Advertising has been called our greatest contribution to the visual arts. Shopping itself is considered a creative activity. Having the aptitude for it is a blessing. We proclaim that we are "born to shop."

 

And yet, somewhere in the back of our minds, we have a sneaking feeling of guilt when we whip out a credit card. George Washington wouldn't drive a Porsche. John Adams wouldn't buy something slinky for Abigail at Victoria's Secret. Aren't we somehow letting the Founding Fathers down?

Well, fellow Americans, you are not, as Northwestern University professor T.H. Breen makes abundantly clear in his significant contribution to Colonial history, "The Marketplace of Revolution: How Consumer Politics Shaped American Independence."

Not only can you go to the mall with a clear conscience, you can go with your chest swelled out in pride. The roots of our freedom lie in what a 17th Century Bostonian termed "Galloping Consumption."

"The American Revolution," Breen argues, "was the first large-scale political movement in recorded history to organize itself around the relation of ordinary people to manufactured consumer goods."

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2004-02-22-0402240319-story.html

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Talking about racism or what not has been really stressful and tiring for me. As much as I’d like to ignore it or pretend it doesn’t exist...as much as I’d like to just live my life not thinking twice about it; me being me can’t run away from it. It’s everywhere. It affects my everyday life. All because of the race I was born. Something out of my control and something I had no say so in. And, I get for many people it can be an uncomfortable subject. It’s like a fly that won’t go away and just hoping by ignoring it maybe somehow it’ll disappear. But, we all know that hasn’t and never will work. I grew up in one of the most racist states in America. Like I said, my home state has 36 active neo-Nazi groups in it and studies show my home state ranks near the lowest when it comes to racial equality when it comes to economics. Moving to anywhere else wouldn’t make a difference. I’d still face racism. Direct or not. One thing about white privilege is not having to think twice about your race being a factor in the many institutions in this country. 
 

I’ve dealt with so much prejudice and bigotry since I was a child. And, at many times hated myself because I felt grass was always greener on the other side.

I feel like a lot of the activism as of late as been a performative act and not genuine in the slightest. However, I’ve also seen people who truly want change and truly see how we feel. So, not all hope is lost. Either way, all this has been really exhausting. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

36 active neo-Nazi groups

I know it isn't any consolation. I just wanted you to know that California has 88, Florida 67, Texas 63, New York 44, Georgia 38, Tennessee 38. All other states are at or below 36.

https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map/by-state

So yeah... it could be worse if you lived in another state. And yes I do consider every one of those listed as neonazi even if they don't claim it. As far as I am concerned they are all the same. Hate filled pustules that should be lanced.

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11 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

MollyMews, I read your whole post.

Your country New Zealand doesn't have hidden agendas of money and corruption like America does, such as Mafia bosses, crime bosses, the good old boys secret networks.  

It's a very corrupt country here.  

I was just reading about the electoral votes for the up and coming presidential election.  While we can vote for the electoral who are promising to vote "our" way, it states the elected electoral to vote for that candidate legally has a right to vote the other way.  

You may accomplish more in a small country like New Zealand but I don't think you understand the corrupt American system.  

America needs to enact laws to stop some of these criminals.  Not votes, laws, and we need to do that through petitions and then the propositions need to go on the ballot for us to say yay or nay to that proposition.  

We are fighting a mountain of corruption in this country.  It has improved some, but only some.  

Here in America we enact laws through petitions and then the propositions go onto the ballots for our votes.  Do you understand this, MollyMews? 

See this that you wrote in your post below about people.  No, no...here in America we need to enact laws not count on people, people are corrupt.  Once a proposition is voted for in favor of, it becomes a LAW.  

Here is what you wrote in your post.  You are speaking about a country other than America here:

 

MOLLYMEWS Wrote:  (see below)

we don't get social and structural racism in our laws, practices and institutions that maintain discrimination, without the explicit support of people for those systems and institutions

racism is not a social issue. It is a personal issue. Personal to each and every one of us. It is personal when we vote for people, to represent us in those institutions, who do nothing to change the institutions

 

what I understand is what I have mentioned before. The USA is one of the most democratic country in the world from a grassroots pov, far more so than  a country like New Zealand

not in every part of the country true, but USA has representative recall, primaries/caucuses where the public can vote on who a party's candidate will be. State and county officials election for all kinds of bureaucratic positions, elections not seen elsewhere in the world. Sheriffs, judges, prosecutors, town marshals, etc directly elected also. Binding referenda (propositions) too in some electorates. In New Zealand we don't have any of this

on corruption, NZ has its share of this. Have mentioned this before also. NZ is not a perfect society. We have elected representatives who have had to resign, and some who ended up in prison. Ex-cabinet ministers, knights of the realm, convicted of fraud. And so on

when we see corruption then try to remember that it is people who are corrupt. When we see institutions that have been corrupted, then it is corrupt people who have changed procedural processes within the institutions to benefit themselves and/or benefit those who are their supporters

as citizens we have our vote. And when we cast this then don't vote for anyone we know to be corrupt and don't vote for anyone who we know is telling lies to our face. When people lie to us and we vote for them anyway then we make their lies our own

and when those people act on their lies, and we excuse this to secure some other benefit we might personally gain for whatever reason, then we are as corrupt as the people we voted for

everybody will tell lies at some time in their lives, we are not perfect beings. However when we continually vote for people we know to be serial liars then we cannot excuse our part in this by deflecting what we ourselves are doing onto other things like history,  mafia, republic structures, inertia, other people, etc

 

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22 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I know it isn't any consolation. I just wanted you to know that California has 88, Florida 67, Texas 63, New York 44, Georgia 38, Tennessee 38. All other states are at or below 36.

https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map/by-state

So yeah... it could be worse if you lived in another state. And yes I do consider every one of those listed as neonazi even if they don't claim it. As far as I am concerned they are all the same. Hate filled pustules that should be lanced.

More or less it still doesn’t make it any less worse. It still doesn’t make a difference like I said. 

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10 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

I'm not saying people shouldn't post their views.  I'm saying I'm frustrated as I don't see much presented for change other than first changing via law qualified immunity for the police as one of things.  

These conversations are important and necessary. This is only one of about a dozen like this I’m involved in through family, friends, work, Twitter, Instagram, FB... but that’s just the beginning of the tip of the big ol’ white iceberg we have to break apart.

This conversation is more frustrating than most because of the handful of people from outside the US who can’t even admit that whites are a privileged race so there’s no talk of solutions to be had - to them there is no problem to fix. 

In coming up with solutions, there’s too much for one person. I’ve had to look at what I want to do, then figured out what I actually can do. The first and easiest for me is to support my local organizations (and BLMUK thanks to Extrude) with some cash.

The harder bit that I’m taking on is going after my city’s Fraternal Order of Police. My hill to die is getting power taken away from them so they can’t keep hiding and protecting bad cops, and silencing the good ones when they want to speak up.

The cops that killed Breonna Taylor still have their jobs and still haven’t been charged, and I’ve recently learned things about how the union has supported the bad cop that fired the gun through the closed window for years and years and he’s done other hellish things and they protected him and MADE HIM A MEMBER OF THE COMMITTEE THAT OVERSEES THE DISCIPLINE OF COPS

Every single day I’m contacting my governor, my mayor, my city councilman, the police department itself AND cc’ing the FOP so they know my intent, along with my local BLM chapter, a couple of local Black politicians, and some journalists. I’m not just screeching at them. I’m outlining suggestions and ideas and ways to implement changes, how to pay for them, and why the changes ultimately will be beneficial to everyone, including the police.

And voting. My state's primary is next week, and then comes the task of getting rid of Trump, yes, but equally important is getting rid of Mitch effing McConnell. In the primary, we vote with our hearts so I’ll be voting for Charles Booker to go after Mitch in November, but Amy McGrath is going to win, and then I’ll do everything I can to help her put Mitch out to pasture.

So pick a couple places where you can fight the fight. Contact an activist in your community and ask them what they need if you don’t have ideas, but don’t expect them to walk you through it. They’re busy as hell, and really, we caused the problems so we need to fix them, so they might point you in a direction but then you have to run with it.

Just do something. Don’t wait for someone else.

 

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53 minutes ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

More or less it still doesn’t make it any less worse. It still doesn’t make a difference like I said. 

You're right. And as I said it isn't any consolation. Being forewarned is being forearmed. Knowledge is power.

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We need to lighten things up a little bit just for a moment with a shining example of (embarrassing) white privilege.

And for those unaware, Matt Gaetz, the rude shouting Florida man who is so concerned about his black children, has no children at all of any color. 

It sure is nice to see a black man own a white man for once, huh?

Metaphorically speaking, of course, not literally...

Can you spot the white privilege? We should make this a game! 

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15 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

We need to lighten things up a little bit just for a moment with a shining example of (embarrassing) white privilege.

And for those unaware, Matt Gaetz, the rude shouting Florida man who is so concerned about his black children, has no children at all of any color. 

It sure is nice to see a black man own a white man for once, huh?

Metaphorically speaking, of course, not literally...

Can you spot the white privilege? We should make this a game! 

Shut the hell up Matt before I come back down there and slap the living tar out of you, you worthless POS.

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I ran across an article that fits with what I was trying to say earlier in the thread about invader mentality.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/13019/there-are-only-22-countries-world-british-haven’t-invaded

Quote

Of the almost 200 current member states (and one observer state) of the United Nations, the British have, at some point in history, invaded and established a military presence in 171 of them.

This is what British historian Stuart Laycock learned after his son asked him how many countries Britain had invaded. He dug into the history of almost 200 nations and found only 22 that the Brits hadn’t marched into. He talks about each one in All the Countries We've Ever Invaded: And the Few We Never Got Round To, released in 2012.

[...]

Here are the members of this exclusive club, the countries that Britain hasn’t invaded (and that should maybe be a little wary now):

Andorra
Belarus
Bolivia
Burundi
Central African Republic
Chad
Congo, Republic of
Guatemala
Ivory Coast
Kyrgyzstan
Liechtenstein
Luxembourg
Mali
Marshall Islands
Monaco
Mongolia
Paraguay
Sao Tome and Principe
Sweden
Tajikistan
Uzbekistan
Vatican City

 

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8 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Shut the hell up Matt before I come back down there and slap the living tar out of you, you worthless POS.

He’s a terrible human being. No, he’s not even human. I just donated to his opponent because, seriously, **** his ******** *********** ************ face.

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2 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I know it isn't any consolation. I just wanted you to know that California has 88, Florida 67, Texas 63, New York 44, Georgia 38, Tennessee 38. All other states are at or below 36.

https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map/by-state

So yeah... it could be worse if you lived in another state. And yes I do consider every one of those listed as neonazi even if they don't claim it. As far as I am concerned they are all the same. Hate filled pustules that should be lanced.

And people wonder why I carry two guns and married a really big Samoan..

hehehe

A lot of that is me kidding,with some seriousness in there..

 

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21 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Matt Gaetz is such a little hemorrhoid. 

He is a full on party boy. You could tell he had this whole big speech planned probably before he got there.. then got cut off.. hehehe

I bet he had to go take a steam afterwards to deal with the stress from being cut off after his motor got going..poor guy.

 

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