Are You Showing Support for Black Lives Matter in Second Life?

[Mollymews]

6 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Then perhaps there is a lesson there on how to drum up support for one's cause or rather, how not to. It really shouldn't be surprising that a blanket accusation of "white privilege" wasn't going to put a lot of white people on the defensive, especially when neither yourself nor the angry white SJW's doing most of the posting, have been able to really define what that actually looks like. Besides which, it really isn't what this is supposed to be about but rather the systematic and institutional racism that exists in the USA, Canada and other countries. Conflating that has made this thread a major derailment of what I assumed to be OP's initial intent.

I think the quote from an article says it better than I can:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/14/white-privilege-is-a-lazy-distraction-leaving-racism-and-power-untouched

i get what the author of this article was hoping to say. They made a real mess of it tho

i repeat the quote from the article:

Quote

 

"The problem of racism is primarily social and structural – the laws, practices and institutions that maintain discrimination. The stress on “white privilege” turns a social issue into a matter of personal and group psychology."

 

we don't get social and structural racism in our laws, practices and institutions that maintain discrimination, without the explicit support of people for those systems and institutions

racism is not a social issue. It is a personal issue. Personal to each and every one of us. It is personal when we vote for people, to represent us in those institutions, who do nothing to change the institutions

and when people of our own race benefit, when others don't, thru our institutions not changing then the benefits received are privileged and personal. A privileged benefit given by us to members of our own race

there are lots of examples of knowing what systemic racism is, and yet still choosing to vote for representatives that we know are not going to change the institutions. Because those changes will not affect us personally, or we don't care to spend time learning about what systemic racism actually is

i will give here one example of systemic racism which representatives (who the voters personally continue to elect) won't change simply because those representatives don't want to be thought of by the self-same voters as 'soft on crime'

https://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/NSDUH-DetTabs-2015/NSDUH-DetTabs-2015/NSDUH-DetTabs-2015.pdf

an analysis of this document shows that:

1) In the USA black people and white people use illicit drugs at similar rates on an individual basis. US black people account for approx. 12.5% of all illicit drug users

2) Yet approx. 29% of all people arrested on drug charges are black, and 33% of all people incarcerated in prison on drug charges are black. Over twice as likely as white people to get arrested for Drugging While Black. And approx. 6 times as likely as white people to get sent to prison for Drugging While Black  

this is white privilege in practice in US institutions

and if a person thinks that this doesn't privilege them personally because they don't do illicit drugs, and continue to vote for representatives that will not  change this, Then that person is perpetuating white privilege and systemic racism. They are giving the benefit of white privilege to those Drugging While White

next time some person is in your (the royal you) face mouthing off about how you are a racist colonialist slave-loving black-hating white person then take a deep breath, pause, and stop looking behind them among all the broken lives for a solution

turn around and look behind yourself and see what the mouthing off person is looking at. They are looking at you and the institutions behind you. The institutions that privilege your race, thru you personally not voting to change those institutions

[Innula Zenovka]

As an example of white privilege:  

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/17/police-in-england-and-wales-six-times-more-likely-to-fine-bame-people-in-lockdown

"Police enforcing the coronavirus lockdown in England and Wales were more than six times more likely to issue fines to ethnic minority people than white people, figures show.

"Data from police forces shows 17 were more likely to issue a penalty notice to ethnic minority people than to white people. Two forces, Northumbria and Merseyside, were not.

"One senior chief constable said bias and lack of trust from certain communities may have played a role, as well as demographics.

"Officers had discretion on when to issue fines, and police said they followed an approach of trying to avoid enforcement, known as the four Es – engaging, explaining and encouraging, before considering enforcement."

[Drayke Newall]

1 hour ago, Mollymews said:

we don't get social and structural racism in our laws, practices and institutions that maintain discrimination, without the explicit support of people for those systems and institutions

racism is not a social issue. It is a personal issue. Personal to each and every one of us. It is personal when we vote for people, to represent us in those institutions, who do nothing to change the institutions

and when people of our own race benefit, when others don't, thru our institutions not changing then the benefits received are privileged and personal. A privileged benefit given by us to members of our own race

this is white privilege in practice in US institutions

and if a person thinks that this doesn't privilege them personally because they don't do illicit drugs, and continue to vote for representatives that will not  change this, Then that person is perpetuating white privilege and systemic racism. They are giving the benefit of white privilege to those Drugging While White

I think this is a lot of the problem though Molly when people outside of the USA look at what the USA does or doesn't do and a lot of my comments that were listed as racist in this thread where trying to show just that. America refuses to change. It has refused to change its laws, institusions and society to better the system and remove the systemic racism from it and then also the so called white privledge. Why has it done this? Because those very changes that are needed are decried as socialist rather than their almighty capitalism and consequently never moves forward.

It is then by this, that their movements like BLM start to breach their borders and move to other countries who have been doing just that and consequently through uneducated people on political or social aspects regarding those changes take up that same cause without looking at their very own society and seeing those changes the elected politicians are doing. This then has a negative connotation to it whereby those politicians or parties that have been voted into power to solve these issues and are in the process of making more changes are not voted in again due to people seeing the protests and riots and thinking that change isn't happening when it is.

In Australia everyone by law at 18 has to vote otherwise there is a fine. The issue is that these fresh out of school teens take up banners and march demanding change adversely effecting peoples daily lives and then those very teens vote in the wrong party because of not understanding the policies of those parties or even reading them. For example they will vote for the Greens based on the fact that they heard that they are environmentally friendly and without realising that they are a minor party and cant actually make changes that are needed or have the policies in place for those changes they want. Those people that the protestors have then had their daily lives interrupted vote for a different party because in many cases spite or because they are just sick and tired of hearing them or thinking those changes aren't being made or debated.

America don't seem to understand that as the top dog in the world theatre what they do often effects other countries negatively and in some cases take things backwards. Like you said Americans need to vote to make change. Protesting is all well and good, but they need to actually go out and vote for people that are going to best solve these issues. That said, considering voting in America isn't compulsory, the same people that don't want change vote whilst the people that do want change don't vote.
 

Quote

next time some person is in your (the royal you) face mouthing off about how you are a racist colonialist slave-loving black-hating white person then take a deep breath, pause, and stop looking behind them among all the broken lives for a solution

turn around and look behind yourself and see what the mouthing off person is looking at. They are looking at you and the institutions behind you. The institutions that privilege your race, thru you personally not voting to change those institutions

Changes take time to implement. It's not a matter of x party votes for it and then magically it is implemented through society. It can take years for those changes to successfully filter into all aspects of society. By designating everyone as white privileged or racist and not seeing those changes of course people are going to start shooting back insults and most often not in rage caused by those same people saying x person is white privilege get racist comments thrown back at them.

I mean these same people say that just because I live in Australia as white I am automatically privileged even if I moved to Australia last month and had the same immigration process as every other race.

I'm sure its similar over the pond where you are but Australia have put in place many fixes to society that removes this systemic racism as well as white privilege. Our school system is open to everyone irrespective of race and is entirely funded by the government eliminating the issues shown in that well put together video on systemic racism in the USA mentioned earlier. Our school fees are low, $3000/year and even then if you cant afford those school fees they can go lower. I'm expecting to get hounded for this as Farrie did, however as an example, I went to a private school that usually costs $35,000/year for only $450/year due to a government system that is open to all races and purely based on means testing i.e. how much assets you have or money you earn. This reduces the fees enormously for both public or even private schooling.

Universities over here are subsidised so that any course costs no more than about $9000 and even after that scholarships for specific minorities or those with financial hardships are available. Then on top of that we have the help loan system that the government will pay all your university fees irrespective of race, background etc or amount and then, when we get a job and earn more than $48,000 per year, start to automatically pay it back in taxes. The figure exceeds $20 billion of this loan that is never paid back to the government every year due to people never earning that much and needing to pay it back. There is also Austudy which is available to everyone or Abstudy available to indigenous people where the government pays per fortnight the person studying $500+ for as long as the course runs and still allow them the opportunity to earn up to an extra $15,000 per year through part time work without having that payment reduced or removed.

We have free Medicare for all with minorities getting even further medical help above what is available to white Australians. We have rent assistance, home repayment schemes, transport allowances etc. All paid by the government for those that need it irrespective of race, background or whatever.

I could go on and on about all these changes or systems that have been in place for over 50 years. Like I said in my posts before numerous times. America needs to change we all know that however they are fundamentally locked into their societal systems and refuse to actually replace those for better ones. Whilst sure it is nice to see changes to the police over there, their fundamental systems still need changing and until that happens no amount of protesting will fix it.

In your nice analogy, I acknowledge things can be done better, everyone does, but I also have no problem looking at those institutions behind me in my country that they say are my privilege and say back to them that those same privileges are available to them as well. Therefore that white privilege doesn't really exist as they just need to ask to access those very same privilege's that where created FOR them.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Drayke Newall

[Innula Zenovka]

20 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

[things are different in Australia]

Obviously I don't know much about life in Australia but according to CNN, it appears that

Quote

Australia's indigenous population -- composed of mainland Aboriginal people and Torres Strait Islanders -- makes up 2.4% of the country's 25 million people, yet accounts for more than a quarter of its total prisoner population.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/06/australia/australia-black-lives-matter-protests-intl-hnk/index.html

On the face of it, that suggests to me something's wrong with parts of the Australian criminal justice system, at least. 

This article provides a perspective somewhat different to yours:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/09/australias-pacific-minister-called-black-lives-matter-protests-self-indulgent-he-couldnt-be-more-wrong

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Innula Zenovka

[kiramanell]

6 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

^^^ THIS ^^^

Jimmy Kimmel summed it up well when he shared: "White privilege doesn’t mean your life hasn’t been hard. It just means the color of your skin isn’t one of the things that makes it harder."

 

To tell you the truth, I didn't even realize it, until he spelled it out like that.

In fact, not only was being white never a cause to make things harder, it made things easier. Not just in the trite sense of getting a better job and such, compared to a black person. but on a far deeper level. When I was still a teen, I too went places I should not have gone. Police would show up, but I didn't get dragged out by my hair, thrown to the floor, hancuffed and beaten. Instead, the Police were very kind, chivalrous almost. Yes, cute damsel in distress, and all that, but primarily white girl in distress! And courteously driven back to her home, to her loving white parents.

In hindsight, it's as if there exists a sort of unspoken notion that the extra mile the Police goes for other whites, is to protect us, not from random evil, but from black ppl. These cops are good people. I believe that. And I also believe they believe that. But underneath, there's still the deeply ingrained notion, that the protection they offer is not just not entirely also for the black, but really rather protection from the black ppl. I'm rambling a bit, I think, but it makes sense. And as long as I can think back, I feel it's aways been there. Not even remotely as bad as in America, but still, always there. It's going to take our society a while to heal from that; to realize black pll are not a stain on society, but rather an equal PART of it.

[Drayke Newall]

1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Obviously I don't know much about life in Australia but according to CNN, it appears that

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/06/australia/australia-black-lives-matter-protests-intl-hnk/index.html

On the face of it, that suggests to me something's wrong with parts of the Australian criminal justice system. 

This article provides a perspective somewhat different to yours:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/09/australias-pacific-minister-called-black-lives-matter-protests-self-indulgent-he-couldnt-be-more-wrong

 

No it isn't something that is wrong with the justice system per-se but individual police officers that should be fired. As you mention you don't know much about life in Australia and that is fine. The trouble is that what I have said before in this thread, trying to explain the differences and what Australia has done to help move forward positively, even acknowledging that it isn't perfect here got me accused of racism so I'm not going to get in to a tit for tat back and forth fight basically repeating myself over and over again.

I even said it once again in the very post you responded to but you once again over looked it, as well as the entire premise of what I said and went straight for newspaper evidence saying basically what I said (change still needs to happen but that takes time). That wasn't what I was expressing in my post and if you read it properly without those glasses on or automatically instantly assuming that I am trying to justify x,y,z, you perhaps would have seen what I said for what it is, that is to say systems have been in place for decades to solve the issues of under privilege as well as more things taking place to help in the future. I was highlighting those things that we have done differently than the USA to help. So as nice as I can say it, people need to get off their high horse and stop posting the same stuff over and over again in some vein way of trying to somehow make it appear that I am saying or suggesting something I am not. You can only hit a dog so long before it snaps back and this is me getting close.

But alas I will say this final thing on the subject and then I'm going to bow out of the topic. There are programs in place to accommodate and try and help some of these areas mentioned in those articles you posted that have been organised between both the government and the aboriginal communities and their elders. Together they/we are already actively trying to solve those issues, 20% of those in jail that you mention from those articles are from drug use alone. Whilst some of that drug use may be from underlying issues from what happened to them in the past and we are sorry for that (already apologised) there is only so much that can be done to resolve those issues on a governmental basis as well as an individual basis and the elders of those communities have acknowledge that. They are fully aware that it is them that need to help their communities in resolving these issues by trying to move to the future in a changed world.

Whilst the government is willing to support them in this in what ever way. There is only so much that can be done by such institutions to help the healing without the entire removal of every non-indigenous race from Australia or handing over all land to them. Common ground needs to be found and that is already happening, despite what you read in the paper from random protestors that as I mentioned before and hopefully makes sense now is already taking place, with these so called protestors completely being oblivious to such steps. Also as I said it takes time especially in trying to help in such sensitive areas as it needs cooperation on both sides as well as communication between everyone. For example getting feedback from the elders such as in the report in the below link.

https://www.cultureislife.org/resource/the-elders-report-into-preventing-indigenous-self-harm-and-youth-suicide/

There are also far more issues with gangs, violence etc that are not related to past issue, but more a case of like usual being in the wrong crowd or attempting to somehow get back at everyone else by the wrong means. Just like what happens with white people to.

Edit

I have huge respect for the indigenous people of Australia as well as those around the world and all other races. Their culture is fascinating and it is a shame some of it is lost and likewise a shame what they had done to them. But, I prefer to go about things the correct way in voting for the right policies and talking with those communities to try and help them the best I can rather than name calling or insinuating such things as white privilege. Whether it exists or not the label itself or applying that label to people or a race will not bring change only contempt and only conversation, acceptance and compassion for all can bring about change. Unfortunately from what I have seen in this thread labels matter more than conversation, acceptance or compassion and that is why, as mentioned, I'm out of this thread.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Drayke Newall

[Innula Zenovka]

15 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

No it isn't something that is wrong with the justice system per-se but individual police officers that should be fired.

I'm sorry, but you've lost me.   

How can the remedy of the fact that "Australia's indigenous population -- composed of mainland Aboriginal people and Torres Strait Islanders -- makes up 2.4% of the country's 25 million people, yet accounts for more than a quarter of its total prisoner population"  simply be to fire some police officers?

What on earth do you say is going on that can be fixed simply by firing these police officers?   Are they running round like crazy framing Aboriginal people for serious crimes and their colleagues and the courts aren't noticing this, so that explains the gross discrepancy, or what?

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Innula Zenovka

[kiramanell]

3 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I'm sorry, but you've lost me.   

How on earth can the remedy of the fact that "Australia's indigenous population -- composed of mainland Aboriginal people and Torres Strait Islanders -- makes up 2.4% of the country's 25 million people, yet accounts for more than a quarter of its total prisoner population"  simply be to fire some police officers?

What on earth do you say is going on that can be remedied simply by firing these police officers?   Are they running round like crazy framing Aboriginal people for serious crimes and their colleagues and the courts aren't noticing this, so that explains the gross discrepancy, or what?

 

 

Firing bad cops is always a good thing, of course. But, indeed, we must not pretend those cops are the origin of the problem: they're simply the product of a racial society that purposely selected/bred them. Therefore, only firing a handful of bad cops is not only meaningless, but also dangerous, as it perpetuates the false notion that society, as a whole, is blameless (and thus doesn't really need to change).

[Drayke Newall]

21 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I'm sorry, but you've lost me.   

How on earth can the remedy of the fact that "Australia's indigenous population -- composed of mainland Aboriginal people and Torres Strait Islanders -- makes up 2.4% of the country's 25 million people, yet accounts for more than a quarter of its total prisoner population"  simply be to fire some police officers?

What on earth do you say is going on that can be fixed simply by firing these police officers?   Are they running round like crazy framing Aboriginal people for serious crimes and their colleagues and the courts aren't noticing this, so that explains the gross discrepancy, or what?

 

Oh FFS, did you even read your own articles you posted. Did you even read my full response? Your article specifically mentions x police officer arresting someone abusively. I was talking about them or situations like that specifically. I then went on further to explain about steps that are being taken to help PREVENT indigenous crime or arrests.

Somehow from your articles you hold up with such high regard you seem to be of the opinion that just because over a quarter of the prison population is indigenous or have been arrested they don't deserve to be there or be arrested? Please. As I have said many times other countries aren't America. We don't go around drug testing based on race or pulling over a car because a non white person is driving it, we drug test everyone randomly at drug stops on the side of the road calling in ALL drivers to be tested. We don't go arresting indigenous people who are drunk, we go and arrest everyone that is drunk and causes a disturbance. Sure there are cases where people get arrested falsely but that same situation happens for all races.

Read your own evidence properly next time you use it instead of cherry picking out select things and then not reading a response within context to that evidence. I swear the more I converse in this thread the more I wonder about the education of America. This is precisely the argument tit for tat going around in circles I said I didn't want to get into yet again but, I should have known it was coming.

BTW you can post a response but I'm done responding, when basic reading comprehension seems to be non existent within this thread.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Drayke Newall

[Innula Zenovka]

24 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

We don't go around drug testing based on race or pulling over a car because a non white person is driving it, we drug test everyone randomly at drug stops on the side of the road calling in ALL drivers to be tested. We don't go arresting indigenous people who are drunk, we go and arrest everyone that is drunk and causes a disturbance. Sure there are cases where people get arrested falsely but that same situation happens for all races.

Sorry, are you suggesting that the explanation for the fact that "Australia's indigenous population -- composed of mainland Aboriginal people and Torres Strait Islanders -- makes up 2.4% of the country's 25 million people, yet accounts for more than a quarter of its total prisoner population" is simply that Aboriginal people are far more criminally inclined than the other 97.5% of the population, and that's why such a disproportionate number of them are in prison?

That is, to use your example of roadside testing,  this has to mean that only once in a blue moon do the police find that Australian drivers stopped in random tests are under the influence of drink or drugs, unless they're Indigenous Australians, in which case they're almost certain to be high as kites.     That can't be what you mean, can it?

Edited June 17, 2020 by Innula Zenovka

[Drayke Newall]

35 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Sorry, are you suggesting that the explanation for the fact that "Australia's indigenous population -- composed of mainland Aboriginal people and Torres Strait Islanders -- makes up 2.4% of the country's 25 million people, yet accounts for more than a quarter of its total prisoner population" is simply that Aboriginal people are far more criminally inclined than the other 97.5% of the population, and that's why such a disproportionate number of them are in prison?

That is, to use your example of roadside testing,  this has to mean that only once in a blue moon do the police find that Australian drivers stopped in random tests are under the influence of drink or drugs, unless they're Indigenous Australians, in which case they're almost certain to be high as kites.     That can't be what you mean, can it?

Seems I like punishment so thought I would respond as you didn't see my edit probably saying I wouldn't due to you already responding.

In a nutshell yes. Why is that hard to believe? As I posted in my post explaining measures being taken to help alleviate it, due to what you would call systemic racism they are more inclined to. Whilst the programs and systems like free education are there for them to take up, the majority don't. I remember talking to someone in my class at university who was indigenous and even she said she was horrified at the amount of people of her own race that, get given so many chances and they don't take it. They were offered all the same educational opportunities and scholarships she was given, housing and travel allowances etc., came from the same economic situation and demographics as her, however the majority preferred to do drugs, alcohol and skip school. You will probably say o that's so racist or so white privilege but that is directly from the same indigenous community.

Like you said you don't know about Australia or the issues facing indigenous communities. You will call it white privilege being the reason why whites are under represented in prisons, however that is not the case. Child abuse within aboriginal communities or even within families living in the city are far higher than. Just because they have a higher population within prison doesn't mean that a) they are all innocent and white Australians are hell bent on just sending them all to prison and b) that it is a cause that hasn't been looked into being resolved. They have the opportunities but as much as you don't want to hear it, they don't take them. Like I keep saying this isn't America everything is available for everyone they just have to apply for it.

Perhaps you should read this below wiki page explaining this issues with crime and the indigenous population. It goes to explain all the commissions that have been done and all of their recommendations implemented to help solve it but like I said the government can only do so much if those people within the community are unwilling to accept what's handed to them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Australians_and_crime

Also notice that even a judicial court system run by their own people was unable to successfully resolve it.

You are going to call it white privilege as the cause but I think I have provided more than enough evidence to show that those privileges are offered to them as well. We re all trying our best, but if what is provided isn't accepted then there is a point where it can go no further.

Now definitely last post and wont be responding any further as this time I'm not editing my post to say as such. I am not responding any more. If you cant accept that Australia is different than America and offers equal to more privilege to indigenous peoples than other races, irrespective if they take that up or not, then its not my fault or any white persons fault.

EDIT:

And before you mention that I have never acknowledge that there is effects of systemic racism within those communities, go back and read my posts I have said just that. maybe not in those words but it is implied everywhere.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Drayke Newall

[JanuarySwan]

5 hours ago, Mollymews said:

turn around and look behind yourself and see what the mouthing off person is looking at. They are looking at you and the institutions behind you. The institutions that privilege your race, thru you personally not voting to change those institutions

MollyMews, I read your whole post.

Your country New Zealand doesn't have hidden agendas of money and corruption like America does, such as Mafia bosses, crime bosses, the good old boys secret networks.  

It's a very corrupt country here.  

I was just reading about the electoral votes for the up and coming presidential election.  While we can vote for the electoral who are promising to vote "our" way, it states the elected electoral to vote for that candidate legally has a right to vote the other way.  

You may accomplish more in a small country like New Zealand but I don't think you understand the corrupt American system.  

America needs to enact laws to stop some of these criminals.  Not votes, laws, and we need to do that through petitions and then the propositions need to go on the ballot for us to say yay or nay to that proposition.  

We are fighting a mountain of corruption in this country.  It has improved some, but only some.  

Here in America we enact laws through petitions and then the propositions go onto the ballots for our votes.  Do you understand this, MollyMews? 

See this that you wrote in your post below about people.  No, no...here in America we need to enact laws not count on people, people are corrupt.  Once a proposition is voted for in favor of, it becomes a LAW.  

Here is what you wrote in your post.  You are speaking about a country other than America here:

 

MOLLYMEWS Wrote:  (see below)

we don't get social and structural racism in our laws, practices and institutions that maintain discrimination, without the explicit support of people for those systems and institutions

racism is not a social issue. It is a personal issue. Personal to each and every one of us. It is personal when we vote for people, to represent us in those institutions, who do nothing to change the institutions

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[Luna Bliss]

3 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

those same privileges are available to them as well. Therefore that white privilege doesn't really exist as they just need to ask to access those very same privilege's that where created FOR them.

Drake, White colonizers still have an advantage over Native/Aboriginal populations in countries they have conquered. What we took from them can't be healed solely with educational opportunities.
We indeed have White privilege compared to the darker-skinned peoples whose culture we attempted to destroy, and all over the world - not just in America. Can your delicate sensitivity to the usage of particular words cope with the word 'advantage' over 'privilege'?  They mean the same thing.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

I found this article by Umair Haque useful in understand racism & the economy, and what it means for the entire world in the future. It's behind a paywall if you read much @ Medium so will post it here:

We Don’t Just Live in Racist Countries — We Live in a Racist World

The World is Still 10% Rich + White, and 90% Poor + Not White. Can a Civilization Like That Survive?

What do you see when you look at the world? Here’s what I see.

The world is about 10% white. That 10% is rich.

And it’s about 90% not white. And that 90% is poor.

We don’t just live in racist countries. We live in a racist world. A racist civilization. What else does a globe where a small number of rich are nearly all white, and a large number of poor are almost all not, really tell you?

And yet when we say these days that black and brown lives matter — are we yet speaking about them, this whole world? Maybe you see my point.

And maybe that’s why, when I speak about racism, both wokers and right wingers tend to fly into a frenzy. My view is different from theirs. I’m a minority, sure — but I’ve also lived all over the world, in Europe, America, Asia, and Africa. What have I learned?

Racism isn’t a binary. A society isn’t either “racist” or “not racist.” Racism is a social spectrum.

Nowhere on earth is free of racism — yet. That’s one thing I mean by “we live in a racist world.” Let me give you an example. Brown nations, like Pakistan and India or even a place like Dubai, are racist as hell. Or “colorist,” to be more precise. Lighter skin is both desired, offered commercially in bleaching creams and dyed, and rewarded. Darker skinned people are attacked, mocked, and suffer worse social outcomes. And to be “black” is something deeply undesirable.

That’s the paradox of a racist world. It’s not just white against black. It’s white against brown against black against every other “color” that’s been used to, wrongly, categories people into “races.”

Can a racist civilization survive a century of catastrophes, like the one we now face? Or does it just degenerate into tribe against tribe, fighting each other bitterly for survival — like America?

The stakes couldn’t be higher. And we cannot survive, I think, as a racist civilization. We simply descend into infighting, hate, chaos and ruin, instead of cooperating, sharing, learning, growing, and working together for a better future. That is what the Trumps and Putins and Farages want — and so far, that is exactly what’s happening.

Race is — and this is crucial to remember — a social construction. Italians weren’t fully ”white” in America when they emigrated in the 1930s. Neither were Poles in the 1980s. Why is that? Because “whiteness” isn’t just a color. It’s a set of values. Old values of empire, colonialism, brutality, capitalism. Of patriarchy and violence. The values of selfishness, domination, acquisitiveness, possessiveness, cruelty, indifference. If you display these, you might — might — be “white.” But if you don’t, even if you have the right skin color — just like Poles and Italians — you’re not “really” white. So the question of whiteness is about a set of values which date back to ownership: regarding the world and everyone on it as your property, or at least your right to own as property. Those values, of course, are still the defining characteristics of the American Idiot.

How did the world end up 10% white and rich — and 90% brown, black, and everything else? The answer’s exactly what you suspect it is. A certain group of people, whites, brutalized and colonized more or less everyone else. America and Britain pioneered an international slave trade. Europe had colony after colony. The values of “whiteness” built a world of impossible brutality.

“White” nations fought one another in war after war for the right to “own” everyone else, more or less. Whose colony was India to be? What about the Indies? This age defined centuries of human history.

The world today, in other words, is still a brutal shadow of a violent and racist past.

To speak about racism inside rich countries is to miss this larger context. It’s not just blacks and browns who are repressed in rich countries. It’s rich countries that repress poorer ones still.

But why does the world still look like this? Rich and white, and poor and not white?

Because the global economy operates that way. It’s perfectly legal — and desirable, in fact, if I operate some giant American corporation, to hire people in some poor broken country — and pay them as little as humanly possible. Of course, I’m probably white — like Bezos — and they’re probably brown, black, or something else.

The idea that I can pay them as little as humanly possible — and it’s good for them — is a remnant of the old slavers’ way of thinking.

To make that clearer, we don’t think, in the rich West, often, that we should pay these poor laborers what it’s necessary to live a decent life. To pay enough taxes to have generous social systems. To support whole families on. No — we just shrug, and pay them as little as possible.

Hey — it’s better than slavery! At least they’re not slaves! That’s what the American pundit crows. Sure, it’s better than slavery. But it’s still not…decency. Civilization. Much progress. The slave didn’t make any money, and had no choices. The poor black or brown person that’s 90% of humanity makes a pittance, and has maybe one choice.

Surely you see the link here. We’ve made as little progress as we could, by justifying the old systems and structures of exploitation.

But isn’t that racism, too? If I say — “Hey! Just pay those poor workers in this country this pittance! At least they’re making something!” — how different, is that, really, from the old slavers’ mindset? I’m not giving them enough to really live decently on, to have functioning societies on, to retire on, and so forth. I’m exploiting them.

And that’s the problem. Racism is a mindset that I can exploit you, because you are in a different category of “human” or even “life” than me. But that is precisely what today’s global economy is still built on. You might not like to hear it, but again — how else are we still at a world that’s 10% rich and white, and 90% poor and not?

So the problem of racism is much, much bigger than the woke left tends to think it is. It isn’t just about toppling statues, or even stopping police brutality. It is about making a world that’s not so nightmarishly imbalanced. A world that’s not 90/10 not-white/white poor/rich. But something even a tiny bit more equitable, which doesn’t merely reflect, and reproduce, centuries of slavery, empire, violence, and hate.

How are we to build such a world? Well, in a global economy run by America’s white male pundits, the answer’s been: tough. You have to build it, poor black and brown people. You have to figure out how to claw back some of this wealth that we stole from your ancestors and their slave labour.

That approach hasn’t worked. Like I said, the world is still profoundly racist. A few nations have had successes — South Korea — but by and large, the poor world is still not white, and the rich world is still white.

It’s easy for white people in America to join statue toppling protests. That’s progress — but of a very, very small kind. The real test will come when they are asked to vote in such a way that they actually share some of their gains with everyone else. Will they finally fund decent healthcare and schools and retirement for blacks and browns, too? Or will they vote against, like they’ve been doing…forever? Will they put their money where their mouth is?

That’s true at a global level, too.

The notion of a fairer global economy is so remote that you’ve probably barely even considered it. But why haven’t you? Have you ever thought seriously why it is that if you’re born white, you’ll probably do OK, but if you’re not, chances are that you’re going to live in grinding poverty most of your life? Do you think that’s really fair? Just? Good? Leave aside the moral concerns. Do you think it’s sustainable? Can the world really go on much longer being rich and white, and poor and not white?

It can’t. Why not? Well, take a look at America. What happened to it? Whites refused to build functioning social systems at all — just to keep blacks and browns down. The result today is that even whites don’t have functioning healthcare, retirement, education, and so on.

But the same is true across the globe — only much worse.

Why is it that at this juncture in human history, we don’t have global education or healthcare systems, a way to ensure every single child on planet earth is fed, educated, housed, nourished?

Why is that considered some kind of utopian naivete? Because, by and large, those kids are black and brown. And we don’t care about those people enough for them to matter. Their black and brown lives don’t matter.

But a planet like that, a civilization like that, is already falling apart. Without enough to eat, poor people have to resort to toxic forms of nourishment, and the result is pandemics. They have to chop down trees and build coal power stations, and the result is climate change. They aren’t educated to the degree they should be, and so instead of becoming the people who discover tomorrow’s vaccine or solutions for a heating planet…they stay poor labourers.

The results? A global wave of fascism, climate change, mass extinction, social upheaval. All these are the human results of a bigger problem: a total and stunning lack of progress, or at least not enough of it, at a global level. A world that’s still rich and white, and poor and everyone else. These problems are all intimately linked.

That is because they’re all forms of exploitation. Racism: I exploit you. Colorism: we exploit them. Climate change: we exploit the planet. Mass extinction: we exploit the animals. We punch down, down, down — instead of lifting up. What do you expect the poor nations of the world to do, except chew through even their toxic natural resources, when they have no other way to make a living, no other form of nourishment? What do you expect will happen in the rich nations, when even what gains result from all this long, long global chain of exploitation are hoarded at the very top? Bang! The planet implodes into a hot, fiery, mess, of pandemic, catastrophe, and fascism.

Let me put that even more precisely. Our civilization is founded on a ladder of exploitation. At the top sit the richest whites — Bezos, Gates, etc. Below them, the average and poor whites. They are still the richest 10% in the world, which is mostly all white. Then comes everything — and everyone else.

The super rich white exploits the rich white. The rich white exploits the poor white. The poor white exploits the even poorer black and brown. The black and brown exploit each other, according to a hierarchy of color, too. At last, beneath and below even this, the planet gets exploited. The animals get exploited. The rivers run dry, the forests turn to smoke, and the great stampeding herds become a deafening silence.

Who’s won from this kind of civilization? The answer is: only the people at the very top, really. The super rich, who became the ultra mega rich. Billionaires have made another half a trillion during the pandemic.

But the rest of the world hasn’t won. It’s still 90% poor and not white, and 10% rich and white. And even that 10% rich and white hasn’t really gained much from a civilization based on exploitation. Like in America, they’ve fallen into poverty, ruin, and despair, too. Because the sad truth is that they are exploited, also.

The only one not exploited in our civilization of trickle-down exploitation is the one at the very top.

But the results are these. A racist planet. A planet that’s melting down. Life on it being annihilated. Fascism erupting everywhere. And a civilization that is going into swift decline and regress.

It’s not just America that’s racist. Our entire civilization is. It always has been.

And racism is a much, much bigger problem for it than we think. It has prevented us from building a single civilization-scale system. But without civilization-scale systems, whether to ensure health, income, education, or even just the temperature, ours will not survive. Just like without social systems for healthcare, education, and retirement, a society like America isn’t surviving. Implosion happens when systems cannot offset risks — and our existential risks are spirallling out of control, while we have no civilizational systems whatsoever.

What Coronavirus really shows is that we don’t have civilization scale systems — even for something as crucial as public health — and our world is beginning to seriously fall apart now as a result. But we don’t have such systems because we live in the aftermath of centuries of racism and its brutality, where black and brown lives haven’t mattered, and still don’t.

Can we change all that?

I don’t know. I think that “black lives matter” is a good start. But I also think that the only black and brown and nonwhite lives which matter aren’t inside the borders of rich countries. They are outside them, and there are many, many more of those. Until and less those lives matter, too, our civilization will continue on the course it is now: falling backwards off the cliff edge of the abyss of regress. Our civilization needs to value lives more equitably to create civilization-scale systems, without which we have no real hope of surviving the shocks of this century, from climate change to mass extinction.

Will that happen? Think of how easy it’s been for us to tune out the mass deaths of Coronavirus. That’s a more likely future, if you ask me. One where we simply shrug, and watch each other die off, telling ourselves: “It’s them, not us. Who cares?” Not understanding that in this century — we stand together, or we fall apart.

Umair
June 2020

[Selene Gregoire]

8 hours ago, kiramanell said:

 

Then don't say ignorant stuff like "Most white folks are not 100% white. Some of them have Neanderthal blood." Fairre was 100% right to point out to you, that so do YOU. All people of Native American heritage retain Neanderthal DNA as well.

[Luna Bliss]

I discovered another way I've been privileged as a White woman. Someone earlier in this thread posted a video where the speaker mentioned Blacks are assessed to have 50% less pain than Whites. I read that somewhere too, awhile back, but it didn't connect for me how that would be an advantage for me, giving me such privilege.

I was in the hospital a couple times and given pain medication. What if I had been Black and had the unfortunate experience of having one of these doctors who think Blacks don't experience pain to the degree Whites do?  If this were true, I would have been given less pain medication and suffered far more because of it.  And believe me, with a severe burn and having my skin peeled off me in the middle of the night to prepare for skin grafts (a process known as debridement), the suffering would have been considerable.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

Meanwhile, some cops probably don't need to be carrying guns....

https://www.towleroad.com/2020/06/officer-karen-mcmuffin/

 

[JanuarySwan]

15 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Race is — and this is crucial to remember — a social construction. Italians weren’t fully ”white” in America when they emigrated in the 1930s. Neither were Poles in the 1980s. Why is that? Because “whiteness” isn’t just a color. It’s a set of values. Old values of empire, colonialism, brutality, capitalism. Of patriarchy and violence. The values of selfishness, domination, acquisitiveness, possessiveness, cruelty, indifference. If you display these, you might — might — be “white.” But if you don’t, even if you have the right skin color — just like Poles and Italians — you’re not “really” white. So the question of whiteness is about a set of values which date back to ownership: regarding the world and everyone on it as your property, or at least your right to own as property. Those values, of course, are still the defining characteristics of the American Idiot.

Possibly that could be a tradition carried on from what the White Anglo Saxon Protestants believed heavily in is nepotism.  However, I read an article that says nepotism doesn't exist as much as it used to in the WASPS, but it's a difficult thing to measure.  It seems to me a kind of favoritism.  

I do get tired of talking.  I think most of us know the system is corrupt and favored...but what to do about it?  Enacting laws for a change I believe is what we need to do or we will be here forever changing nothing if the laws don't change.

So, this thread has me frustrated.  We can talk til the cows comes home and talking til the cows come home is very long time or never that anything will change because the cows never come home they are oft grazing somewhere else, wandering.

I'm not saying people shouldn't post their views.  I'm saying I'm frustrated as I don't see much presented for change other than first changing via law qualified immunity for the police as one of things.  

[Innula Zenovka]

2 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Like you said you don't know about Australia or the issues facing indigenous communities. You will call it white privilege being the reason why whites are under represented in prisons, however that is not the case. Child abuse within aboriginal communities or even within families living in the city are far higher than. Just because they have a higher population within prison doesn't mean that a) they are all innocent and white Australians are hell bent on just sending them all to prison and b) that it is a cause that hasn't been looked into being resolved. They have the opportunities but as much as you don't want to hear it, they don't take them. Like I keep saying this isn't America everything is available for everyone they just have to apply for it.

Sorry, but no.

I've just taken a look at the Australian Bureau of Statistics website, where they have a whole section giving a breakdown of the Australian prison population by offence type, for Aboriginal  & Torres Straits Islander vs the rest.    As is clear this chart, Sexual Assault is one of the offence types in which the Aboriginal population is actually under-represented. 

https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by Subject/4517.0~2018~Main Features~Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander prisoner characteristics ~13

I don't know much about Australia, but it took me all of 30 seconds to find this out using Google,  which rather makes me wonder how many other easily debunked racist assumptions we're all carrying around in our heads.  

Edited June 17, 2020 by Innula Zenovka

[Selene Gregoire]

Calls to remove controversial Abraham Lincoln statue in Boston

[Ceka Cianci]

They should remove the one in DC as well..But they would never..

The great emancipator..pfft yea right.

[Janet Voxel]

55 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I discovered another way I've been privileged as a White woman. Someone earlier in this thread posted a video where the speaker mentioned Blacks are assessed to have 50% less pain than Whites. I read that somewhere too, awhile back, but it didn't connect for me how that would be an advantage for me, giving me such privilege.

I was in the hospital a couple times and given pain medication. What if I had been Black and had the unfortunate experience of having one of these doctors who think Blacks don't experience pain to the degree Whites do?  If this were true, I would have been given less pain medication and suffered far more because of it.  And believe me, with a severe burn and having my skin peeled off me in the middle of the night to prepare for skin grafts (a process known as debridement), the suffering would have been considerable.

It probably was me. Black women have an extremely high maternal mortality rate, because they tell doctors something is wrong and doctors don't listen, which leads to a lot of unnecessary deaths.

https://www.heart.org/en/news/2019/02/20/why-are-black-women-at-such-high-risk-of-dying-from-pregnancy-complications

Its also funny how that works, believing someone has a higher pain threshold. You'd think even if a doctor believed that, if someone they believed had a high pain tolerance said they were in pain, wouldn't that mean it was serious?

[Innula Zenovka]

51 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

They should remove the one in DC as well..But they would never..

The great emancipator..pfft yea right.

But the Boston sculpture, with him bestowing freedom on the slave kneeling at his feet,  is particularly objectionable, I think.

[Luna Bliss]

54 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Black women have an extremely high maternal mortality rate, because they tell doctors something is wrong and doctors don't listen, which leads to a lot of unnecessary deaths.

https://www.heart.org/en/news/2019/02/20/why-are-black-women-at-such-high-risk-of-dying-from-pregnancy-complications

Regarding the higher mortality rates of Blacks due to Whites less often listening to them...I can't even...

I'm also thinking about another incident experienced by the Black woman in the video you posted -- where clerks always thought she didn't belong in the attorney line, clerks that can't imagine a Black person could indeed hold one of the professional professions we hold in higher esteem in our society. I'm wondering just how disheveled and unprofessional a White woman would have to appear before some clerks would consider her not 'attorney line' privileged. Would she need to have Trump windy-day hair, a few teeth knocked out, and dribbled coffee all over her blouse before a clerk would determine she didn't belong in the line?

This may seem trivial to some as we like to imagine other people's opinions of us don't matter, but they really do. I can only imagine the numerous lines we all wait in during the course of our lives -- lines where we need something, or try to address a problem regarding the social services in society we depend on. How many times do Black people get the message that they either don't matter, are perceived more often as possible criminals, or simply don't deserve the place in line Whites have. This can't be good for Black people's self esteem!

Edited June 17, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, JanuarySwan said:

I do get tired of talking.  I think most of us know the system is corrupt and favored...but what to do about it?  Enacting laws for a change I believe is what we need to do or we will be here forever changing nothing if the laws don't change.

So, this thread has me frustrated.  We can talk til the cows comes home and talking til the cows come home is very long time or never that anything will change because the cows never come home they are oft grazing somewhere else, wandering.

The first step is admitting we have a problem.  Too many refuse to acknowledge there even is a problem, or that they play a part in it.