Are You Showing Support for Black Lives Matter in Second Life?

[Innula Zenovka]

I intend no personal criticism of anyone by this, but I have to say that reading all these posts by well-meaning white people explaining to a black American how she doesn't really understand racism, and how they they do understand it, and therefore her own lived experience, better than she does, leaves me feeling distinctly queasy.

The way I see it,  if I don't like someone telling me that all whites are racist, then the best thing I can do about that, rather than try to argue the point, is to try to do the best I can to ensure that my own actions and dealings with them don't help to confirm them in this view.     

Anything else, it seems to me, is simply wasting both our time and confirming the other person's low opinion of me, and thus make a bad situation worse, which is an outcome I do not want, so I do my best to avoid it.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Innula Zenovka

[Luna Bliss]

Just now, FairreLilette said:

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

The one trying to stop the disrespect you are heaping on Blacks is causing the disturbance?  I have bitten my tongue more than once with your constant comments that never acknowledge the plight of Blacks, but now that you've gone after Ashlyn I'm afraid I could be silent no longer.

Oh, but it's okay from her.   If you don't believe reverse discrimination exists, you are from Mars and in denial.  

You went crazy because I'm showing the true side of this oh so great white privilege which doesn't exist.  The majority of whites don't have money for college.  College is near or over $200,000 dollars now.  The Army is how we got out of poverty, not some privilege of pennies.

Of course I believe that a Black person could be prejudiced against a White person.

I did not "go crazy" because I think you're  "showing the true side of this oh so great white privilege which doesn't exist".  I think you are unable to see, or are unwilling to acknowledge, that we have institutionalized racism in this country that puts Blacks at a disadvantage.  

Once again, it doesn't matter (for this discussion) that our economy is imploding and the levels of White poverty is increasing by the minute.  The point is, no matter how bad we as Whites may have it, almost certainly it would be worse if one is born Black.

[Ashlyn Voir]

47 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Fairre, maybe Ashlyn doesn't trust you because all you've ever done in this thread is defend Whites. Here you are again, telling Ashlyn as a Black woman she's just as bad as Whites with her 'racism'. And NOW going on and on about the hardships in your White life.  She is talking about systemic racism, institutional racism, which has benefitted us Whites for centuries, irregardless of whether we donned a KKK robe or whatever you believe it takes to have the word 'racist' applied to you.

Have you, even for one line, expressed how you've personally benefitted from the institutionalized racism plaguing this country?
For example, I mentioned how I've benefitted, or had privilege, on account of being White:
1. I got an inheritance from my mother who had a pretty decent-paying job that was denied to Blacks.
2. My teachers paid more attention to me in school since I'm White, had higher expectations for me, over my Black counterparts. This helped me succeed in life.
3. Had my child been a Black male there's a much greater chance he'd have been shot on the street, so I have been privileged in our society by having a White child.

I'm not saying you, or any White person, should be blamed or feel guilt about being White or what has been done to Blacks in this country. I just want you to acknowledge Whites have had an advantage. If you can't comprehend how you, as a White person, had advantages, then you will never be able to understand what we can do to remedy this situation...because you're not acknowledging this injustice ever existed.

Omg thank you so much for actually listening to me. This post on so many levels right now

[FairreLilette]

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Of course I believe that a Black person could be prejudiced against a White person.

I did not "go crazy" because I think you're  "showing the true side of this oh so great white privilege which doesn't exist".  I think you are unable to see, or are unwilling to acknowledge, that we have institutionalized racism in this country that puts Blacks at a disadvantage.  

Once again, it doesn't matter (for this discussion) that our economy is imploding and the levels of White poverty is increasing by the minute.  The point is, no matter how bad we as Whites may have it, almost certainly it would be worse if one is born Black.

Not if you join the Armed Forces though.  This is how people of all colors can overcome poverty, Luna.  

It's sad, but it is the main way and people of all colors are joining The Armed Forces in order to have a FREE education and training which can be used to have a career once they have served four years.   There are many educations and trainings in the Army.  It's the only way people of all colors know how to get a free education and training, plus you can get a home for one dollar down.  

This is how people of all colors have furthered there lives in America.  It's the truth and it's an important truth.   It's sad that it's mostly what all colors have to beat poverty but it's how most of America was built today.  

And, because I'm writing a post of how my family overcame their extreme poverty of pennies and charity from local farmers in order to live, I do think you went crazy.  Please stop.  

Edited June 16, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

And, because I'm writing a post of how my family overcame their extreme poverty of pennies and charity from local farmers in order to live, I do think you went crazy.

That's not why I became upset. I became upset because you, once again, make the issue all about you.  It's just one more example of how we as Whites can't acknowledge or see the advantage we've had in so many facets of life via making Blacks the latrine of America.

[Selene Gregoire]

6 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

reading all these posts by well-meaning white people explaining to a black American how she doesn't really understand racism, and how they they do understand it, and therefore her own lived experience, than she does, leaves me feeling distinctly queasy.

This is why I don't bother trying to discuss racism with most (not all) white people. I learned decades ago that they don't really care and never will. They don't want to know the truth because then they would have to face their own racist attitudes, which means the world isn't the protective bubble they want it to be. Their glass houses would shatter. So we don't get a better world and decent human beings.

[Ashlyn Voir]

The fact there are people on this thread who can deny they have white privilege just because they had to “work hard” shows their actual white privilege and how little race affects their day to day lives unlike ours. Because a poor struggling white person still has more privilege than even an middle class or upper middle class black person. Period. 
 

The constitution was meant for YOU. It was written for your people. Not mine. My people were still in shackles and chains when that was signed. Again, this country whether you want to accept it or not was built and remains on a violent white supremacist infrastructure. Again, y’all are racist and until you teach yourselves to unlearn that, then that’s on you. 

[FairreLilette]

14 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

That's not why I became upset. I became upset because you, once again, make the issue all about you.  It's just one more example of how we as Whites can't acknowledge or see the advantage we've had in so many facets of life via making Blacks the latrine of America.

No, I'm explaining The Armed Forces with their free education and ability to own a home.  This is how most of 20th and 21st Century America probably "middle class" has been built because it's the truth as there was no handed privilege here in America...as you well know, it's kind a make it on your own kind of capitalistic society OR join the Army.  And, The Armed Forced with their free education in the 21st Century are being utilized by women now too because as far as education a college education today is $200,000 dollars; then there are student loans which could be loans that last 20 to 30 years; then there are local colleges and occupational schools which aren't as much as colleges but it's still a cost; and then there are scholarships. 

The Armed Forces is how all peoples have come out of poverty in the 20th and 21st Centuries and now even women.  You may want to look at that because the education system in America sucks for all.  I currently know less than a handful of people who can afford a $200,000 dollar education for their child.  

Edited June 16, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Selene Gregoire]

Not everyone can be in the army.

What are the qualifications to join the Army?

The following are the basic requirements for enlisting:

• You must be a U.S. citizen or a resident alien.
• Be between the ages of 17-34. Seventeen-year olds need parental consent.
• Have a high school diploma.
• Have no more than two dependents.
• Take and pass the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB) test.
• Pass a Military Entrance Processing Station medical exam.

https://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/army-recruiting-faqs.html#quals

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/meps-at-a-glance-3354039 - Military Entrance Processing Station med exam

[Luna Bliss]

19 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

No, I'm explaining The Armed Forces with their free education and ability to own a home.  This is how most of 20th and 21st Century America probably "middle class" has been built because it's the truth as there was no handed privilege here in America...as you well know, it's kind a make it on your own kind of capitalistic society OR join the Army.

That would seem to be one factor in how wealth was built in America. I'm wondering though, why Whites on average have so much more wealth than Blacks if your theory is valid, as they were also in the military, and possibly in greater numbers than Whites (percentage wise).

I know that the New Deal after the war taxed the wealthy at far higher rates (like 90%) and  that this played a big part in allowing a middle-class to form.

This is an important issue to figure out and remedy though....why are Blacks so much poorer than Whites in America?

Edited June 16, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Janet Voxel]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

That would seem to be one factor in how wealth was built in America. I'm wondering though, why Whites on average have so much more wealth than Blacks if your theory is valid, as they were also in the military, and possibly in greater numbers than Whites (percentage wise).

This is actually a good example of white privilege. After WWII when the GI bill was instituted, most blacks that served were denied  benefits such as education and loans for housing that white GIs were given. Chances are if you're a baby boomer and your father served, the house you grew up in was thanks to the GI bill, Black people were denied that benefit.

[Luna Bliss]

[FairreLilette]

20 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

That would seem to be one factor in how wealth was built in America. I'm wondering though, why Whites on average have so much more wealth than Blacks if your theory is valid, as they were also in the military, and possibly in greater numbers than Whites (percentage wise).

I know that the New Deal after the war taxed the wealthy at far higher rates (like 90%) and  that this played a big part in allowing a middle-class to form.

This is an important issue to figure out and remedy though....why are Blacks are so much poorer than Whites in America?

I'm not sure...it's probably a myriad of reasons with a lot of viewpoints and would need study.  However, one article suggests inheritance.  I doubt it's inheritance.   I don't know very many people with any inheritance at all except a few whose families worked in the entertainment business out here in California and they have inherited royalties and that is a very few.   

I know there are extreme whites in poverty but mostly in The Appalachian Mountains, I believe, where the coal mines area.  Dolly Parton and Loretta Lynn came from these extremely impoverished white ethnic backgrounds from the coal mining towns.  Most people in the Appalachian's don't want to leave their home though.    They want to live there and they receive assistance but that's all another study too.  

As far as really overcoming poverty in America, we have only a few ways and one is mostly talent and the other is mostly the Armed Forces other than those born with a silver spoon in their mouth through inheritance.  

But, our education system needs an over-hauling too but I doubt we will see one in our life time.  

But, remember too, there are fairly well off immigrants who come to America to start a business.  Businesses in the L.A. area are multi-ethnic of every country.   So people are coming here with money to start a business.

Edited June 16, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Innula Zenovka]

9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

That would seem to be one factor in how wealth was built in America. I'm wondering though, why Whites on average have so much more wealth than Blacks if your theory is valid, as they were also in the military, and possibly in greater numbers than Whites (percentage wise).

I know that the New Deal after the war taxed the wealthy at far higher rates (like 90%) and  that this played a big part in allowing a middle-class to form.

This is an important issue to figure out and remedy though....why are Blacks so much poorer than Whites in America?

I can maybe help here with three books I'm reading at the moment.

White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America by  Nancy Isenberg

The End of the Myth: From the Frontier to the Border Wall in the Mind of America by Greg Grandin 

Stamped from the Beginning: The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America by Ibram X. Kendi

They all tell the same story, pretty much, from different angles, and make the present day far more comprehensible.

 

 

[FairreLilette]

11 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

This is actually a good example of white privilege. After WWII when the GI bill was instituted, most blacks that served were denied  benefits such as education and loans for housing that white GIs were given. Chances are if you're a baby boomer and your father served, the house you grew up in was thanks to the GI bill, Black people were denied that benefit.

Oh, here it is.  We were posting at the same time.

I do know people of all colors though who have bought homes with $1 dollar down in the 21st Century.  

As far as that above, it's sounds like grounds for a lawsuit to me, but that is just my opinion, but it does, it sounds like grounds for a lawsuit.  

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

all you've ever done in this thread is defend Whites. Here you are again, telling  she's just as bad as Whites with her 'racism'.

and it's true.. evil is not in color but inside of people. Like many others in this thread that became very visisble.
People are judged on who they are, or show ..and in these cases it's totally clear.. the intolerance of the so called tollerants.
I'm only disagreeing minor details of the BLM, but people like here make me sick for it.

[Janet Voxel]

12 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I do know people of all colors though who have bought homes with $1 dollar down in the 21st Century.  

Yes, but at the same time, black people have been targeted for high interest mortgage loans...in the 21st century.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/02/27/investing/wells-fargo-sacramento-lawsuit-discriminatory-lending/index.html

[FairreLilette]

Just now, Janet Voxel said:

Yes, but at the same time, black people have been targeted for high interest mortgage loans...in the 21st century.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/02/27/investing/wells-fargo-sacramento-lawsuit-discriminatory-lending/index.html

Yeah, I don't know too much about that other than some of our banks collapsed as the banks were considered insolvent and Fannie May and Freddie Mac may have gone bankrupt in around 2008 or so during the banking crisis and the crash of the stock market.  Banks have been throwing high interest loans at the many, but I can see Blacks and minorities, even women have had a very difficult time.   It sucks getting a home right now and has in California for decades now since the junk bond era of the 1980's.  

18 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

28 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

This is actually a good example of white privilege. After WWII when the GI bill was instituted, most blacks that served were denied  benefits such as education and loans for housing that white GIs were given. Chances are if you're a baby boomer and your father served, the house you grew up in was thanks to the GI bill, Black people were denied that benefit.

But, this above.  This is grounds for a lawsuit.  There should be zero tolerance for the above and zero tolerance for it not to remedied through monies the people were denied.  

[Luna Bliss]

33 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

44 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

That would seem to be one factor in how wealth was built in America. I'm wondering though, why Whites on average have so much more wealth than Blacks if your theory is valid, as they were also in the military, and possibly in greater numbers than Whites (percentage wise).

This is actually a good example of white privilege. After WWII when the GI bill was instituted, most blacks that served were denied  benefits such as education and loans for housing that white GIs were given. Chances are if you're a baby boomer and your father served, the house you grew up in was thanks to the GI bill, Black people were denied that benefit.

I didn't know about the discrimination with the GI bill via the many loopholes.  Found a good article about it:

https://www.history.com/news/gi-bill-black-wwii-veterans-benefits#:~:text=From the start, black veterans,dishonorably than their white counterparts.

I did read the other week about how even today the banks get away with discrimination via their loopholes.

[Janet Voxel]

6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I didn't know about the discrimination with the GI bill via the many loopholes.  Found a good article about it:

https://www.history.com/news/gi-bill-black-wwii-veterans-benefits#:~:text=From the start, black veterans,dishonorably than their white counterparts.

I did read the other week about how even today the banks get away with discrimination via their loopholes.

Yes, and there is a such thing as inter-generational wealth. That means, that same house that Boomer's parents had or have could be sold or rented out when they pass, creating more wealth for the next generation, not to mention the benefit of living in a better neighborhood with better schools, which would lead to the next generation being able to build on that success. That leg up is key, because the next generation understands the value of home ownership and how the process of actually buying a house works, meanwhile, you have another group that knows much less about it because they weren't even able to do it and when they finally were....predatory lending. There is a relation there.

We haven't even gotten into realty companies scaring white families into moving, selling their houses for low prices and selling them to black familes for ridiculously high prices causing urban blight all over the US.

https://scholars.org/contribution/how-americas-real-estate-brokers-still-use-practices-reinforce-racial-segregation

[lHorizonl]

14 hours ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

Red lining does still exist. They’re just more sneaky about it by using legal loopholes and the credit system. Yeah. So. Bruh. 
 

 It’s still a white supremacist society. 
 

Oh, I am young. And many of us young black people have very much educated ourselves. We aren’t our ancestors and we won’t stand around and not call people out either. 
 

Oh, and to help end the “well black people have xyz”, I’ll burst your little ignorant bubble to tell you that shiz don’t matter, bruh. Because, at the end of the day we still a you know what to a white supremacist society and they don’t give a damn about how much education we have or money. 

If you are so blind by the fact you think everything is so damn peachy, then there’s no fixing you. You’re racist and you refuse to really acknowledge that. So, me constantly replying to you is a waste of my time when I’m basically talking to a brick wall.
 

 

ah you beat me to this video but I will just go ahead and bump this because it is a very good / simplified video everyone should watch surrounding this topic. 

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

This is why I don't bother trying to discuss racism with most (not all) white people. I learned decades ago that they don't really care and never will. They don't want to know the truth because then they would have to face their own racist attitudes, which means the world isn't the protective bubble they want it to be. Their glass houses would shatter. So we don't get a better world and decent human beings.

I have to ask this.. hehehe

Have you ever messed with people and embraced the stereotypes put on you? I only did it to people I know.. Well ,most of the time anyways..Sometimes it was just to make someone feel like an idiot when they deserve it..

With my friends it would be stuff like, we're in my house and they would be checking something out and I'd say with urgency, Omg that's sacred!

Most times they'd jump out of their skin with eyes bulging out..

Omg that's my Grandfathers sacred chair!

hehehe

 

My Father is really bad.. He gets really old school.. If someone asks him if he is Native American, Which he doesn't like being called..

He does this thing with his eyes where he kind of squints and looks off in the distance, with the most serious face, then his voice gets deep.. No.........I am not....Native American..

Then he'll jump right back to normal and say I'm, Chiricahua Apache or Nde..

He's really good at it.. hehehehe

[Ashlyn Voir]

In my home state alone there are 36 active neo-Nazi groups in it and just recently a hate crime happened here. I’ve also been seeing a lot of reports of lynchings just this past week. Stay safe.

[FairreLilette]

@Luna Bliss as far as looking at the causes of systemic racism, I think Janet Vogel has shown what the cause is.  The Black people were ripped off.  Plain and simple.  The Black people were ripped off.  There should be zero tolerance for this not to be remedied.  I know it's a shabby remedy as the people then lost but it still should be remedied without a doubt in my mind because Black people were ripped off as citizens of the United States Armed Forces and by their own government.  

Edited June 16, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Innula Zenovka]

17 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Yes, but at the same time, black people have been targeted for high interest mortgage loans...in the 21st century.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/02/27/investing/wells-fargo-sacramento-lawsuit-discriminatory-lending/index.html

I don't know how mortgage lending works in the US specifically, but one of the big problems with credit scoring in general is that it risks baking in disadvantage and prejudice, not because anyone's consciously decided to offer discriminatory interest rates but because once you start looking at objective factors -- loan to income ratio, for example -- then even before you take into account the  applicant's previous credit history it follows that since black people in general tend to earn considerably less than do white people in the UK (and I would think in the US too), for reasons that are nothing to do with the mortgage lender,  that a disproportionate number of black customers will be charged a higher mortgage interest rate because the credit-scoring system rightly sees a higher loan-to-income ratio as suggesting the applicant is more likely to experience problems keeping up the payments, and compensates for the extra risk by  charging a premium for it.

So while there's no direct discrimination against any individual borrower, in general, as a group, black borrowers find themselves discriminated against, as a direct consequence of the racist structure of society, which itself is a direct result of that society's history.