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Scylla Rhiadra

Are You Showing Support for Black Lives Matter in Second Life?

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5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well, I could ask you how the following paragraph of yours helps at all, because you are accusing them of not wanting to see reality, as if they are at fault for their perceptions.   I am basically saying, perhaps they cannot see the truth.  Perhaps they should not be demonized as people who just don't want to see the truth.

"I mean, you had the leader of a country just say he was going to take military action against this. Against his own citizens. Meanwhile, an armed protest and storming a government building was met with them being called "Patriots". How do you rationalize that? How do you not say anything about that? No, no, no....if people aren't seeing that then they aren't going to. No debate on the internet is going to sway someone who doesn't see it, they just don't want to see that. "

 

Why would that even be a question? I didn't demonize anyone, don't be hyperbolic. Stop calling people names, you're not helping. Periodt. 

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1 minute ago, Gatogateau said:

While I believe that all lives matter, I am suspect of movements in general (groups of people are my worst nightmare, as is group think). I have no doubt that some of the people in All Lives Matter are up to no good. Not everyone falls for fallacious arguments though to be able to state that all lives matter. And I don't feel like dying on this hill; I'm being a bit pedantic. A lot of this goes to intent, and I've yet to see anyone who knows for certain what the intents of others are without being explicitly told. I am not naive to the evils of the world.

The thing is, they never feel a need to cry that all lives matter until it becomes overwhelmingly obvious that black lives are being treated as if they don't...and campaigns are made to that effect.

It's pure deflection. If a woman dies of breast cancer, and a breast cancer fundraiser is held in her memory, one wouldn't crash it to complain that all cancers matter.

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21 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

I get where some see that as a way to downplay the BLM movement, and I know that some people use it exactly for that reason.

Downplaying Black Lives Matter is why all lives matter was coined in the first place. It did come from good intentions.

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I just want to leave a few more points.

First, Saying  hateful people must have brain-damage or trauma  only further stigmatises those who suffer from it.A good number being black too. So please refrain from making such jokes. Call hateful, bigoted  people what they are.  Not by a condition that that cannot be  helped.

Second of all. intersectionality is a thing,  there are  Black disabled  people, Black LGBT people. BLM is for  them as well. Even more so then their  cis, abled, straight  counterparts as they face the worst of it. what about-ism helps nobody. We need to show solidarity. Because Right now.  It's  Black people getting the brunt of it.

Finally. They did protest peacefully at first. more peacefully then the  armed, white protestors who wanted haircuts  only  months ago, 

 

Look what it got them,  More brutalism,  more people being rendered dead or disabled. Even news crews are being fired upon.

Wouldn't you start to fight back after all that?

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1 minute ago, Janet Voxel said:

Why would that even be a question? I didn't demonize anyone, don't be hyperbolic. Stop calling people names, you're not helping. Periodt. 

You, or someone, accused me of demonizing them. I was simply saying that what you are doing by assigning them more agency/capability than they might be able to manifest  is also a type of demonization.  

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1 minute ago, Gatogateau said:

While I believe that all lives matter, I am suspect of movements in general (groups of people are my worst nightmare, as is group think). I have no doubt that some of the people in All Lives Matter are up to no good. Not everyone falls for fallacious arguments though to be able to state that all lives matter. And I don't feel like dying on this hill; I'm being a bit pedantic. A lot of this goes to intent, and I've yet to see anyone who knows for certain what the intents of others are without being explicitly told. I am not naive to the evils of the world.

 

All Lives Matter, of course. My only gripe with that was, that this was never in question to begin with. Like ever. Nary a one even dreamed of suggesting otherwise, I'm sure. So, seeing this truism suddenly brought up, by Paul, why, that triggered MY suspicion bone. :( 

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Just now, Luna Bliss said:

You, or someone, 

Staph....you don't even know who did what. Staph. I'm done with this, with you here.

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4 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

The thing is, they never feel a need to cry that all lives matter until it becomes overwhelmingly obvious that black lives are being treated as if they don't...and campaigns are made to that effect.

It's pure deflection. If a woman dies of breast cancer, and a breast cancer fundraiser is held in her memory, one wouldn't crash it to complain that all cancers matter.

EXACTLY!  It's when they feel their position of power is threatened by giving another group too much power (in their mind) that they come out of the woodwork. 

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18 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I suggest, where I live, there is a kind of racial profiling in regards to a suspect.  What is the solution though as for the most part it involves drugs or stealing here.

I think if we provided decent employment (minimum wages upped a bit, or even a UBI) we would see less drugs and theft. 

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8 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

The thing is, they never feel a need to cry that all lives matter until it becomes overwhelmingly obvious that black lives are being treated as if they don't...and campaigns are made to that effect.

It's pure deflection. If a woman dies of breast cancer, and a breast cancer fundraiser is held in her memory, one wouldn't crash it to complain that all cancers matter.

 

Damn, should have read your excellent reply here, before I posted my own weak fumblings. Couldn't have said it better myself (no, really, literally, I couldn't). Thank you!

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

But really I think for the most part we're just processing the trauma of what is going on out there atm, what is to become of our world.  It doesn't look good. I've been reading about all the folks lined up trying to get food, and strange things are happening in my neighborhood (more thefts, even in my own backyard).

I also wanted to say there were problems a few months ago in regards to COVID-19 in regards to the high degree of black deaths in Chicago and Louisiana.  There was even an article with the title of "Are They Trying to Kill Us?" showing a black man in Chicago.  I think much of all this tension is also in response to the higher mortality rates among blacks in two places I've listed here.   There was a real under-current of fear and I remember even thinking is this virus acting like a disease that may attack a certain ethnic group?  It was kind of scary.  I feel like all of this was just ready to blow up here but it started with those in Chicago and Louisiana questioning why is this virus so virulent and lethal in those areas (Chicago/Louisiana)?   This was a long time a comin' as they say and I remember my friend who grew up hosed down in Alabama for just being black from the time he was a child.   

 

Edited by FairreLilette
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20 minutes ago, Robin Kiyori said:

Finally. They did protest peacefully at first. more peacefully then the  armed, white protestors who wanted haircuts  only  months ago, 

 

Look what it got them,  More brutalism,  more people being rendered dead or disabled. Even news crews are being fired upon.

Thank you. It wasn't even months ago, it was like three weeks ago.

That really should speak for itself.

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1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's just me being frustrated today, after changing my mind about not watching the news, and then watching the news with all the chaos unfolding, only to come here and have to witness some of the idiotic comments by conservatives here too.  Just a release, here on the forum.

But I thought your issue was that I wasn't holding them accountable if saying they really couldn't help it due to brain damage?   The sad thing is, although not "brain damage" per se, they really might not be able to help how they view many aspects of society.  I suppose that is more depressing than anything.

* Case in point, the narcissist (as defined by a bevy of psychologists) heading the country really is unable to see his behavior for what it is. This is a clinical aspect of narcissism.  

I liked your post because there isn't a hug option - it's always darkest before the dawn, so chin up lovely. xxxxx

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17 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

The thing is, they never feel a need to cry that all lives matter until it becomes overwhelmingly obvious that black lives are being treated as if they don't...and campaigns are made to that effect.

It's pure deflection. If a woman dies of breast cancer, and a breast cancer fundraiser is held in her memory, one wouldn't crash it to complain that all cancers matter.

Well... I think that part of my points were ignored in your reply. I did say that at this point in time the BLM house is on fire, and does deserve and need the attention.

Funny you should mention breast cancer vs other cancers though because this thing DOES happen. There are a LOT of complaints in the research world that because breast cancer is more visible (because it is more common?) that it gets all the funding and that it is over funded while other, less "glamorous" cancer research is struggling because of all of the attention to breast cancer. They have a point. :/ 

I think you are being guilty of "broad brushing" here by saying anyone who is of the belief and will stand by it by saying it that all lives matter are guilty of pure deflection. That's fallacious. That's pretending to know everyone's intent. As I am reading SOME of the people here, and myself included, that is rubbish. I think there are some people in this thread, and certainly in the world at large, who ARE using that (rather obvious) phrase of "all lives matter" to undermine social justice. There is a difference between ascribing to all lives matter and belonging to an organization All Lives Matter.

Ultimately, alienating people who think and write slightly differently than the PC group is harmful. Us vs Them, when in fact it is Us vs Us you are talking about. To put me in a group of those who are deflecting is wrong. To put me into a group that thinks that blacks aren't racially targeted is wrong. To put me into a group that is oblivious to the ill intents of others who do use movements to undermine and deflect is wrong. I may not phrase things to your liking, but to denigrate them as "simply" this or that is actually shooting your own beliefs in your own foot.

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27 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

Downplaying Black Lives Matter is why all lives matter was coined in the first place. It did come from good intentions.

Are you speaking of the GROUP All Lives Matter or the thought that all lives matter? There is a difference. I'm assuming a typo in your reply, that it should be "It did not come from good intentions" since you said "downplaying." I believe all lives matter. I am not downplaying that black lives matter. That would be a fallacious argument. I'm not doing that. I don't think everyone who says all lives matter is.

It is insulting my intelligence to state or imply that I don't "get" that SOME people use ALM as a way to undermine.

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7 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

While I totally agree with what you said, it still infuriates me that the cop that murdered George Floyd in cold blood is getting an "alternative charge of manslaughter."

is the way the legal code is constructed. I don't know the exact legal code in that jurisdiction but given the charge of 3rd degree murder then there it appears there are jurisdictional degrees of murder. 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree murder, then manslaughter, then down to careless behaviour causing death

generally, for a murder charge to be upheld in court then the fact somebody was killed doesn't always legally mean that the person who killed them had an understanding that their actions could lead to death

Inflicting harm on another person, who dies from that harm, in itself doesn't legally mean that the killer had an understanding to kill. The example is a person punches somebody else in the head in a street fight and that somebody dies. As the law is written, for murder to stick in court then it has to be shown that the killer understood that they would kill the victim by punching them

juries are instructed to stick to the law as wrote when considering their verdict.  Not as they would feel about it

i think there is enough evidence for a 3rd degree murder verdict to be returned by a jury. The compelling evidence to me is that George Floyd did apprise his killer of what was happening to him.  His killer is not some random person in a random street fight. He is a trained police officer. Ignoring Mr Floyd does I think show to a reasonable jurist that the killer did know that continuing his action, as he did, could result in Mr Floyd's death. Which happened

but I do understand the alternate charge of manslaughter. Which has everything to do with how the legal code is written and little to do with what happened.  For manslaughter to stick then the prosecution just has to show that any reasonable person knows that kneeling on somebody else's neck in this way could kill them. With murder then the prosecution has to show that the killer knew this

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50 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

While I totally agree with what you said, it still infuriates me that the cop that murdered George Floyd in cold blood is getting an "alternative charge of manslaughter."

Unsurprisingly, I've got a lot to say. I'm still reading through this thread and trying to decide if I'm going further engage here at all.

I do want to point out, though, that the DA, when announcing this charge, plainly stated that the charges are likely to be amended. They could quickly and easily charge him with 3rd degree murder so they could arrest him. This is not, and likely will not be the final charge. This may well be upgraded to 1st degree murder, and I suspect there will be a whole host of other charges added as well.

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29 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

All Lives Matter, of course. My only gripe with that was, that this was never in question to begin with. Like ever. Nary a one even dreamed of suggesting otherwise, I'm sure. So, seeing this truism suddenly brought up, by Paul, why, that triggered MY suspicion bone. :( 

I believe that capitalizing All Lives Matter puts it into an official GROUP and not something I am talking about. I didn't read Paul that way either. I have zero idea what Paul's intents or innermost thoughts are. I read his words. Yes, it is a truism, all lives matter, and yet, it gets lost in the shuffle at times. When we break things up into smaller and smaller specialized causes, perhaps that might be an effective way to affect change, but it could also be the opposite. Working to equalize everyone... well, brings everyone up.

And, yet again, I will say, This Is The Time For BLM attention. And no, I don't think looters = BLM.

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There were live videos of white people spraying BLM on buildings (during peaceful protesting) and black people approaching them to say "Stop! We don't need your help!".

There were MANY videos of stacks of bricks placed in non-construction areas (during peaceful protesting). Plenty of video of streamers on site calling it out.

There was a video of a car full of white rioters handing out bricks and a black person approaching them to tell them it wasn't right.

Of course there was the video of the (white?) umbrella man who was busting out windows at the Autozone as protesters asked him why, and who he was.

Van Jones on CNN said that white liberal Clinton supporters who claim they aren't racist are more dangerous than the KKK.

Many others are using the riots as a defining characteristic of black people.

George Floyd's girlfriend pleaded for peace and said that George would have been devastated by destruction.

Several black commentators on a few lesser-known Periscopes spoke about how they would never be invited on MSM to speak. How MSM always seems to find the right black person to interview. How MSM will only speak on these issues out of convenience. MSM doesn't want to talk about the issues unless the issue is a protest (that has the potential to turn into a riot).

All the statistics in the world don't change the fact that Black Lives Matter and that racism cannot be cured.

I will continue to listen to the stories of black people and taking them with me. It's all I can do.

Black Lives Matter.

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7 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

To put me in a group of those who are deflecting is wrong. To put me into a group that thinks that blacks aren't racially targeted is wrong. To put me into a group that is oblivious to the ill intents of others who do use movements to undermine and deflect is wrong. I may not phrase things to your liking, but to denigrate them as "simply" this or that is actually shooting your own beliefs in your own foot.

 

FWIW, I do not lump you in with the 'deflectors.' Had never even occured to me. :) And I doubt Amina did either. There's always a place and a time for everything, though. And when someone (not you) suddenly brings up 'All Lives Matter', in a thread about 'Black Lives Matter,' then I cannot help but feel both time and place were off.

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Quote

An analysis of millions of traffic stops released this week by InvestigateWest found that Washington State Patrol troopers search Native Americans at a rate more than five times higher than white motorists. Black drivers were twice as likely to be searched as white drivers, and Latinos and Pacific Islanders were about 80 percent more likely to be searched. Yet white drivers were most likely to be found with drugs or other contraband. A similar analysis by Stanford University earlier this year that focused on black and Latino drivers found the same is true nationwide.

Nationwide, Native Americans are one of the groups most likely to be killed by police.

They’re more likely to be victims of violent crime than any other race and they’re more likely to be the victims of a crime committed by another race.

“It’s no coincidence that Native people suffer from both the highest rate of police violence nationwide and over-policing in Washington State,” Jesse Phelps, spokesman for the Lakota People’s Law Project, wrote in an email. “It’s all too obvious that racial profiling is alive and well throughout the U.S.

“Until we see more activism from the populace, better protections from elected officials and increased oversight from law enforcement authorities, people of color will no doubt continue to suffer disproportionately.”

https://www.invw.org/2019/12/20/how-can-police-minimize-racial-profiling-of-native-americans-others/

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Gatogateau said:

Are you speaking of the GROUP All Lives Matter or the thought that all lives matter? There is a difference. I'm assuming a typo in your reply, that it should be "It did not come from good intentions" since you said "downplaying." I believe all lives matter. I am not downplaying that black lives matter. That would be a fallacious argument. I'm not doing that. I don't think everyone who says all lives matter is.

It is insulting my intelligence to state or imply that I don't "get" that SOME people use ALM as a way to undermine.

I mean the phrase and hashtag all lives matter were invented to downplay black lives matter. It was started in bad faith and comes with too much baggage to serve any positive purpose now. Anyone using it innocently should stop.

Edited by Lyssa Greymoon
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9 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

i think there is enough evidence for a 3rd degree murder verdict to be returned by a jury. The compelling evidence to me is that George Floyd did apprise his killer of what was happening to him.  His killer is not some random person in a random street fight. He is a trained police officer. Ignoring Mr Floyd does I think show to a reasonable jurist that the killer did know that continuing his action, as he did, could result in Mr Floyd's death. Which happened

but I do understand the alternate charge of manslaughter. Which has everything to do with how the legal code is written and little to do with what happened.  For manslaughter to stick then the prosecution just has to show that any reasonable person knows that kneeling on somebody else's neck in this way could kill them. With murder then the prosecution has to show that the killer knew this

Well said. And I do, as a layperson not a legal expert, understand that a lot of it is how the law is written. On the other hand, I know what I saw on that video of the murder. It was murder. The officer had training. That is also a technique that is not approved/allowed. It was obvious that the action went longer than after the suspect was "subdued." Perhaps Murder 3 is all they can get, but it still infuriates me. Murder 1, where there was planning involved, no I don't see that (and... perhaps there is some background knowledge we lack on that case, like past involvements between the two). But it was clear once he started, with Floyd's own words and actions and physical responses, and with the cries of the spectators... the murderer knew just what he was doing. Also, just to say it, the other cops who didn't pull the murderer off? For the love of god... I know why the spectators didn't jump in, fear of also being killed by armed thugs.

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19 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I also wanted to say there were problems a few months ago in regards to COVID-19 in regards to the high degree of black deaths in Chicago and Louisiana.  There was even an article with the title of "Are They Trying to Kill Us?" showing a black man in Chicago.  I think much of all this tension is also in response to the higher mortality rates among blacks in two places I've listed here.   There was a real under-current of fear and I remember even thinking is this virus acting like a disease that may attack a certain ethnic group?  It was kind of scary.  I feel like all of this was just ready to blow up here but it started with those in Chicago and Louisiana questioning why is this virus so virulent and lethal in those areas (Chicago/Louisiana)?   This was a long time a comin' as they say and I remember my friend who grew up hosed down in Alabama for just being black from the time he was a child.   

 

OMG, Fairre... please stop. It isn't just in Chicago and Louisiana. In Kentucky, where less than 10% of the entire population is black, 18% of COVID deaths have been black people, and that's not just a funny coincidence. 

Oh, wait, no... here you go. Why Coronavirus is Deadly for Blacks in Los Angeles

You live in a bubble. I get the impression that you have never been outside LA County. Were black people hosed down in Alabama 40 years ago? Yes. Are they now? No. That doesn't mean that racism isn't alive and well. I do not think you actually know what racism is. It's not as simple as burning a cross in a black family's yard. It's not as simple as a white cop literally crushing a black man to death beneath his knee. If it were that simple, we wouldn't be having these conversations.

Since you believe racism isn't deeply ingrained in Los Angeles, I ask you to start Googling and education yourself, please., or stop making these bizarre anecdotal statements. Here's your first lesson. Black, Homeless, and Burdened by LA's Legacy of Racism.

 

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