Are You Showing Support for Black Lives Matter in Second Life?

[Mollymews]

5 hours ago, Janet Voxel said:

My assertion was simple: the US spends much less than it should on social programs than it should and it shows

the question posed here is: Is the US spending enough on social programs ?

Tolya is saying that spending on social programs has increased. Which it has

the US budget has two parts: Discretionary and Mandatory spending. Mandatory spending is on social programs

when looking at budgets, population estimates are also considered. This from the US Census Bureau is one of those documents that help inform budgets

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2010/demo/p25-1138.pdf

the population dependency projections were/are:

2010: 67 mandatory spending dependents ((old people and children) for every 100 non-dependent people
2020: 74 mandatory spending dependents for every 100 non-dependents

Mandatory Spending (costs paid for by the 100)
2010 1.877 trillion
2020 3.027 trillion (estimate)  

Mandatory spending recipient average

1.877 / 67 = 0.028
3.027 / 74 = 0.041

the cumulative inflation rate for 2010 to 2020 was 17.6%

0.28 * 1.176 = 0.033

0.041 - 0.033 = 0.008 which is an approx. 28% real increase (per dependent) in mandatory spending over the inflation rate

so Tolya is right on this part

 

your question Janet is different. You and Tolya are not talking about the same thing

rephrasing your question. Should social programs currently in the discretionary spending of the budget be moved to the mandatory spending column ?

were I in the US then I would be advocating for this, as US mandatory social programs are well funded compared to US discretionary social programs

[Beth Macbain]

19 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

and I was the people

No, WE were the people. You weren’t having an argument with yourself. There were quite a few people involved.

And just to clarify, my comment about the Klan referred to ALL OF US having stopped talking about BLM and police brutality because that is a conversation that they would definitely not want to be part of, but a conversation about looting during race riots would be right in their wheelhouse. I wasn’t, and wouldn’t, call anyone a Klansman except actual Klansmen. And Trump. 

A topic started to discuss support in SL for BLM turned into a discussion about racism and that turned into a discussion about looting, with a hundred or so side conversations, and then you were mad and convinced that I was calling you a Klansman and at that point, there was no way to further the conversation. You were, and apparently still are, seeing red.

I’m not the only one guilty of having knee-jerk reactions.

[Janet Voxel]

Sweet Jesus...this forum is a trip.

[Luna Bliss]

[Beth Macbain]

16 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Sweet Jesus...this forum is a trip.

This forum is a god damn minefield.

[JanuarySwan]

3 hours ago, Gatogateau said:

I've basically left this thread after yesterday's crap show, but I cannot let this bit of cognitive dissonance stand. Are you effing kidding me, Beth? Did Tolya say to you that "The Klan will be really pleased with you"?*  because of your actions/words? Because you did, to me. Oh yes, and Sylvia will cluck cluck and count personal pronouns if someone strays out of the PC Rulebook lines and defends against personal attacks. Attack personally, like YOU did and that's ok. Defend personally with *I* and well, it is all about "you."

I was called, basically a Klansman, for daring to say "looting is wrong" to Scylla's "justifiable damages" in burning down a Target store ffs. 

Oh right, we weren't allowed to talk about looting as a separate topic because it wasn't on YOUR list of approved topics, despite the fact that 99% of this entire thread is OFF TOPIC. I see we've been talking dolls, and Churchill and IRA and... haven't seen anyone else be called the Klan. But Tolya telling you that you're ignorant, well, that's just too much below the belt.

Tolya, who everyone on the board knows is going to be pretty much the opposite of a Liberal viewpoint. But a like-minded liberal, not to mention people I considered at least Internet friendly? THAT"S who YOU chose to shut down and smear. Enjoy the cognitive dissonance. Enjoy the virtue PCing. 

What a load of crap.

ETA: I stand corrected, the exact quote is "The Klan would be so proud." THAT really changes the whole meaning, doesn't it.

 

[Mollymews]

i am quite pleased the the forum moderators have let this one run

has been really interesting. In some places it went a little bit You! No! You! but over all has been pretty good I think

[Scylla Rhiadra]

I do rather wish, however, that we could get back to more direct testimony about the experience of racism, and ways of supporting BLM.

[Selene Gregoire]

26 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I do rather wish, however, that we could get back to more direct testimony about the experience of racism, and ways of supporting BLM.

I've already been told to shut up and sit down more than once and accused of saying things I never said so... there you go. No point in saying anything since no one wants to hear the truth.

[Mollymews]

31 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I do rather wish, however, that we could get back to more direct testimony about the experience of racism, and ways of supporting BLM.

ok

has come up quite a bit here about criminals, and that when a US black person is not a criminal then they should have nothing to fear from the authorities

there is a person called Khalil Muhammed who is a historian and professor. He has written a book "The Condemnation of Blackness: Race, Crime, and the Making of Modern Urban America"

is about black people being criminalised to serve an economic end. Beginning with what happened in the South after the US Civil War, then subsequently in the North due to mass migration from the rural fields to the urban factories, and then up thru history until now

a vid posted by Kaisa on this thread on about page 51 shows a person called Kimberly Latrice Jones talking about this also

here is a link to Vox where Mr Muhammed discusses his book, how and why black people (as a body) in the USA are presumed to be more criminally inclined, when they are not. And the role of policing in this, leading the US to the situation it finds itself in today

https://www.vox.com/2020/6/6/21280643/police-brutality-violence-protests-racism-khalil-muhammad

 

[lHorizonl]

I was gone a day and this all went in so many directions lol. 

I think the final thing I might add to this is final insight on the last thing i remember reading here, and this is only to add to the information already given : 

Someone mentioned "Only about a quarter (27%) of all officers say they have ever fired their service weapon while on the job"

 

My addition to this quote is that:

Black people were 24-25% of those killed despite being only 13% of the population. (in the US) & here are some helpful links to add more insight into this : 

• ( Data about the race percentages / breakdowns here : https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219 )
• Here is also a link to more detailed graph / breakdown of police violence in the US specifically towards black Americans: https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/. 
• This link also gives a better visual representation of fatal shootings in 2019 within the US & allows you to break it down by race :  https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/

 

So although only 27% of the police are shooting off their weapons a large majority of the people effected by it comes from a small group of individuals. 

• 1,004 fatal shooting occurred in 2019
• 249 were black (25%)
• Now when you take into account a lot of other factors such as people who were unarmed, who did not flee/did not resist, or were armed with other objects such as a knife, toy gun, etc. they make up somewhere around 85-90 of the 249 (34-40%) 

Those lives never saw a day In court or had the chance to a fair trial because they were shot dead before it could even happen. And this only takes into account lethal deaths so not including police abuse/brutality on a day to day basis. 

[Alwin Alcott]

2 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

This forum is a god damn minefield.

yeah i wonder how thatcomes ...oh wait... intollerance for other opinions,... where  did that happen too?..Think about that.

[Lyssa Greymoon]

The percentage of officers who fired their gun in service is a BS statistic. You know who didn’t fire his gun? Derek Chauvin. Despite being required by federal law, the government doesn’t publish statistics on deaths of people in police custody. It’s not like the DOJ is bad at math or gathering data, they are very good at it. They keep meticulous records of police officers killed on duty. The people killed by cops, not so much.

[Innula Zenovka]

Ben Okri, a Nigerian novelist and poet, on the protests.

'I can't breathe': why George Floyd's words reverberate around the world

Quote

 

Never in my lifetime has the case of such visible injustice moved white and black people, moved them as human beings. There have been protests all across America. But there have been huge protests in Britain, in Spain, in Nigeria, in fact all across the world. Why has the killing of George Floyd struck such a profound chord in us? Maybe it was that phrase: “I can’t breathe.”

The consonance of the phrase with the very root of our pandemic fears is uncanny. The phrase linked the coronavirus with the ubiquitous and implacable nature of institutional racism. “I can’t breathe” – yet people were prepared to risk being afflicted with coronavirus just so they could express their protest at the chokehold killing of a black man.

There have been many times when black people have been gagged, strangled and choked by the police in the US, and even in Britain. The names of those who have died unjustly at the hands of the police are legion. And the police officers have mostly always gotten off entirely free. What happened to George Floyd isn’t new. “I can’t breathe” was uttered by another police victim, Eric Garner, less than a decade ago. But now there has been a crossover protest on a universal scale. This time is different. This time it is epochal. Language taps into primal fears.

 

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Innula Zenovka

[Dano Seale]

18 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

But the US is multi-cultural/multi-racial, composed of people from all over the world.  So how does that work here?  When did America become Rome?

So was Rome, any place that had an "Empire" usually was/is. Rome had a habit of killing many of their "multi-cultural/multi-racial" population and throwing them to the lions and such, much like the US does today! The US also has a "Senate and Senator's", uses Latin a lot and it's main Religion is based in....Rome!  So, there ya go!
 

 

18 hours ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

So many racists coming out the wood work. Now I know who to avoid even on SL.

You've admitted yourself here (admirable btw) that you once "hated" all things "white", and along with your "militant" tendencies....that made you yourself a "racist"! (not so admireable apparently).
Even though you claim to have "changed" and no longer feel that way, it never fully goes away. Long explanation short..... "people in glass houses"..."pots and kettles" etc! 
 

 

19 hours ago, Janet Voxel said:

Why is no one talking about how militarized the police are in the US? 4.3 billion dollars in military surplus pumped into police departments? Military surplus that is more likely to be deployed in minority neighborhoods? 

I suppose it's much like what the NRA and gun fondler's preach...."I may never have the occassion to use my guns, but I want them there for if that changes!"?



 

[Dano Seale]

10 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I do rather wish, however, that we could get back to more direct testimony about the experience of racism, and ways of supporting BLM.

Scylla wants to get this thread back onto how we can all support BLM, I'd agree (for the sake of everyones sanity!), but the plain fact is that it should have shut down the moment Ashlyn answered my question on, if black people even WANT white support?
Her answer was plain for everyone to see and take notice of - white people have no dog in this fight..."It's not your fight!" I haven't seen another black person here or anywhere else contradict that statement. 
All that's happening now, is white people battling white people, anger, frustration, misunderstandings, labelling, speculation, "brigading" (many ganging up on one) and friends becoming enemies! The messege was crystal clear, black people don't want our support, help or interference! 

I can see their point really, if it is such. They want any "change" to come about because of what they themselves may achieve and bring about, without white (or any other coloured) people insinuating or claiming it was only achieved with their help!  Don't think that would happen? Let me give you an example of the same kind of thing:
Americans (not "1st Nation" people Selene, I know) are all extremely proud of how their Nation was formed and often (for "often" read - all the time! lol) give us Brit's crap about it, either playfully or angrily depending on situation. "We kicked your ass!" A true statement at the end of the day, but and here's the thing, the simple fact and truth is "Not without a LOT of  help you didn't!"!
Without the French, Dutch and Spanish declaring war on us at the same time, and having to divert ships and troops to defend against those threats, without French silver and Spanish gold funding, without the French countering and fighting the Royal Navy on American coastlines, without a German Commander whipping the Colonial army into a fighting force....without all that, Washington and his rabble would have been "done and dusted" in a month!
Americans were only a slice of a much bigger pie, and we Brit's can and do, always point that out. This would just be the same argument that could be thrown out by people if black people achieve any massive "changes" with help and support from white people. I believe they want to be solely responsible for any pride they may gain by any great changes in their lives and I believe we should, by all means, support and cheer them on in their fight, but from the sidelines with a hotdog and a beer!.

[Aethelwine]

Mumia Abu-Jamal has a different answer to Ashlyn. Written from prison after nearly 40 years inside for a crime he probably didn't commit writing on the Ferguson protests. 

https://www.prisonradio.org/media/audio/mumia/real-outside-agitators-242-mumia-abu-jamal

Edited June 9, 2020 by Aethelwine

[Tolya Ugajin]

13 hours ago, TDD123 said:

As if you did not type this smoking a fat one ..

 

LOL

Actually, other than a few hits while with my future inlaws in Canada, I haven't smoked it in around 25 years.  I run our company's drug testing programs, after all, and I abhor hypocrisy

But, meh, it's legal in Canada (Canadians in general are saner than Americans), and I still get one free round of rehab if I get busted on a test.

[Luna Bliss]

21 minutes ago, Dano Seale said:

Her answer was plain for everyone to see and take notice of - white people have no dog in this fight..."It's not your fight!" I haven't seen another black person here or anywhere else contradict that statement. 
All that's happening now, is white people battling white people, anger, frustration, misunderstandings, labelling, speculation, "brigading" (many ganging up on one) and friends becoming enemies! The messege was crystal clear, black people don't want our support, help or interference! 

One Black individual is not the voice of all Blacks.  The Blacks I know in RL appreciate appropriate help from Whites.    

* appropriate as defined by Black people

Edited June 9, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Ted McGregor]

9 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

(Canadians in general are saner than Americans)

Sssshhhhhh , demmit ... Don' t say that in front of Scylla ..

 

[Janet Voxel]

37 minutes ago, Dano Seale said:

Scylla wants to get this thread back onto how we can all support BLM, I'd agree (for the sake of everyones sanity!), but the plain fact is that it should have shut down the moment Ashlyn answered my question on, if black people even WANT white support?
Her answer was plain for everyone to see and take notice of - white people have no dog in this fight..."It's not your fight!" I haven't seen another black person here or anywhere else contradict that statement. 
All that's happening now, is white people battling white people, anger, frustration, misunderstandings, labelling, speculation, "brigading" (many ganging up on one) and friends becoming enemies! The messege was crystal clear, black people don't want our support, help or interference! 

Are you serious?

[Tolya Ugajin]

1 minute ago, Janet Voxel said:

Are you serious?

I just noticed your tag is "Meme Queen".  I think we should have a "Meme Wars" thread!

[JanuarySwan]

38 minutes ago, Dano Seale said:

Her answer was plain for everyone to see and take notice of - white people have no dog in this fight..."It's not your fight!" I haven't seen another black person here or anywhere else contradict that statement. 
All that's happening now, is white people battling white people, anger, frustration, misunderstandings, labelling, speculation, "brigading" (many ganging up on one) and friends becoming enemies! The messege was crystal clear, black people don't want our support, help or interference! 

I agree Dano and feel my voice stiffled because of it.  I'm not black, so if I was oppressed or stigmatized by The Police, it's something I will have to take up personally with police brutality as another color of person.  

 

40 minutes ago, Dano Seale said:

Without the French, Dutch and Spanish declaring war on us at the same time, and having to divert ships and troops to defend against those threats, without French silver and Spanish gold funding, without the French countering and fighting the Royal Navy on American coastlines, without a German Commander whipping the Colonial army into a fighting force....without all that, Washington and his rabble would have been "done and dusted" in a month!

Well, that's long over but actually many American's do know that.  France was having it's own kind of revolution also which is very involved.  But, yes people who want to be free of certain oppressions do generally tend to fight together.   This time....?  I don't know what to say.  

[JanuarySwan]

10 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Are you serious?

I am very serious.  It's been made perfectly clear in this thread a white person doesn't know what it is like to be oppressed by The Police.  This is for BLM oppression.  

[Luna Bliss]

16 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

27 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Are you serious?

I am very serious.  It's been made perfectly clear in this thread a white person doesn't know what it is like to be oppressed by The Police.  This is for BLM oppression.  

I revealed a story about my father getting beat up by police, and Fairre expressed one of her family members getting brutalized by police and how it traumatized them.  So this is not true -- nobody has stopped anyone from talking about white oppression by the police.

What has been discouraged, is those who come in with very little concern for Blacks and talk nearly exclusively about the faults of the BLM and the protests.  One can glean from this that there's a good chance they aren't really concerned about Black oppression, or don't even believe Black oppression is real today.

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Luna Bliss