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24 minutes ago, Dano Seale said:

I'm curious. Do you...or the 'BLM' organization for that matter...actually WANT support from white people?  Asking because I've not seen anyone other than white people mention that we should "all stand together as one!" since this, or any other tragedy of this type occured.
 

 

Most of us already know about it but apart from voicing our opinions (yes, we're allowed them to) on here, I'm not sure what you want us to do with such knowledge?  

Dude, I don’t even follow BLM. Does it look like I know everything about BLM or speak on behalf of BLM just because I’m black? Don’t do that, see now you just really irked me and I’m sorry but you sound like a bigot. Unlike most people, I don’t center white people and I don’t give a damn whether or not you support me or my people. That’s on you. You’re grown. Whether or not you want to is not my issue. 

_____

All that stand together BS just ignores the straight up racism against black people in this country. Period. And, I’m also getting tired of everyone using our movements to make it about themselves. When the shootings happened at synagogues for example, people showed their support for the Jewish community and gave donations and not make it about themselves. But, E V E R Y single time when it comes to black Americans and we want justice for our people, everyone has to make it a POC issue even though many non-black POCs absolutely hate black people. It’s like people want to ignore the real black truth and sugarcoat it with other propaganda to derail from the reality. 
 

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22 minutes ago, Dano Seale said:

yes it will

disband the department and start over. Is the right thing to do when a community has lost faith in any branch of local government

edit add

just add that what community-led safety initiatves means is the Community Policing model.  Officers are trained in community relations and emphasis is placed on de-escalation

here is an example of community policing

 

Edited by Mollymews
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26 minutes ago, Dano Seale said:

I'm curious. Do you...or the 'BLM' organization for that matter...actually WANT support from white people?  Asking because I've not seen anyone other than white people mention that we should "all stand together as one!" since this, or any other tragedy of this type occured.

 

Little confused on that myself, now. I thought 'together' is what we were going for together. Maybe not. And yes, I'm white, and was shocked by seeing Floyd killed. That angered some ppl well (as in: I already should have known). Why, there's a difference between knowing, and seeing and/or living thru it. Yes, I've led a sheltered white life. I never have experienced any of these things. Not going to apologize for that, save in the way that I think white people really most urgently need to end racism now. That should have happened a hundred years ago already, and way earlier, but I can't take on all Weltschmerz on my own. All I can do, is protest it when I see it happen plainly in front of me. And I think there are more people seeing it, and today more than last week. And I say that's a good thing.

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3 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

yes it will

disband the department and start over. Is the right thing to do when a community has lost faith in any branch of local government

 

I read that too. A radical concept, but it could really work. :) 

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13 minutes ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

Don’t do that, see now you just really irked me and I’m sorry but you sound like a bigot.

Thought it was a decent question to ask and as you were earlier trying to inform us about black history, thought you might give an intelligent reply. Wrong!  *shrug*

Any other black person out there like to answer without the uncalled for name calling?

 

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4 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

 

Most of Minneapolis City Council pledges to 'begin the process of ending' police department


https://www.startribune.com/most-of-minneapolis-city-council-pledges-to-begin-the-process-of-ending-police-department/571088302/

 

Wonder whether that's even legal. But having seen all recent police brutalities just captured by cell phones, it's evident something's very rotten in the State of Minnesota. :( 

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9 minutes ago, Dano Seale said:

Thought it was a decent question to ask and as you were earlier trying to inform us about black history, thought you might give an intelligent reply. Wrong!  *shrug*

Any other black person out there like to answer without the uncalled for name calling?

 

Oh, I gave you an intelligent answer. Too bad you think being called a bigot is name calling? You should wear your hatred as a badge so black people know to avoid you. 
 

I was informing people who may not know—not you since you claim to already know so much— on racial violence against blacks. Also, black history is American history. I was informing you on that, sweetie. 
 

I don’t speak for all black people and while some may want help from their non-black allies, some of us think the entire thing is honestly a backhanded agenda. I’m on the more militant side of things and I honestly don’t care whether or not white people or non-black POCs support us. All I care for is for black people to stand as one and start rebuilding our own community instead of being dependent on other races and losing ourselves in the process. As I said, I don’t speak for all black people. Some actually love the idea of coming together as one, especially those in interracial relationships. You can’t expect to get an answer you’re looking for from one black person and assume that’s how the rest of us think as well. 

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17 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

 

Most of Minneapolis City Council pledges to 'begin the process of ending' police department

 

And you have posted in the past that you are well armed, however a two iron away from Minneapolis from your sites , well within shooting distance.  I agree with your post - let the people rock.

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As a black female (and sorry but i just discovered this forum post so i only read the last few responses). A few things : 

NO it is never a bad thing for people who are not POC to have these discussions. I enjoy the fact that these conversations are happening BUT i do believe the moment you enter these sorts of conversations on BOTH sides, you should come with an open mind. We all grew up from all sorts of different backgrounds, but the biggest problem that occurs with such a large group of people is we are quick to respond without actually listening & understanding. We as human beings allow our emotions to get the better of us. 

Now don't get me wrong i 100% believe there are people who are taking advantage of the protests and are out destroying things for no damn reason other than their own pleasure. It is impossible for it not to happen with such a big movement, period. But to expect people to stop the movement because of them is also a ridiculous thing to expect because the point of a movement is to keep moving forward and we can only hope the person to the right / left of me are also genuinely there on the streets to support, listen and understand the black community and the struggles you might have the privilege to avoid in your daily lives.

 

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31 minutes ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

Too bad you think being called a bigot is name calling? You should wear your hatred as a badge so black people know to avoid you. 

Do the doctors know you've escaped again? Jesus!   

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3 minutes ago, lHorizonl said:

As a black female (and sorry but i just discovered this forum post so i only read the last few responses). A few things : 

NO it is never a bad thing for people who are not POC to have these discussions. I enjoy the fact that these conversations are happening BUT i do believe the moment you enter these sorts of conversations on BOTH sides, you should come with an open mind. We all grew up from all sorts of different backgrounds, but the biggest problem that occurs with such a large group of people is we are quick to respond without actually listening & understanding. We as human beings allow our emotions to get the better of us. 

Now don't get me wrong i 100% believe there are people who are taking advantage of the protests and are out destroying things for no damn reason other than their own pleasure. It is impossible for it not to happen with such a big movement, period. But to expect people to stop the movement because of them is also a ridiculous thing to expect because the point of a movement is to keep moving forward and we can only hope the person to the right / left of me are also genuinely there on the streets to support, listen and understand the black community and the struggles you might have the privilege to avoid in your daily lives.

 

 

I thank you for posting this. Ashlyn's reply to Dan was... intreresting. Unexpected, really, but therefore good, as it were, because it threw me off a bit on how I had pretty much assumed most black ppl might react to non-POC ppl supporting their cause. For the same reason, I value your own input (over what I might have thought).

I can never truly understand life in a black community, of course; much like I can never truly grasp what it must have been like to have been a Jew during WW 2. Nonetheless, I feel, my lack of true knowledge despite, I should still speak up. Like that engraving at the New England Holocaust Memorial in Boston, Massachusetts (by Martin Niemöller):

They came first for the Communists,
And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

(...)

Then they came for me,
And by that time no one was left to speak up.

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6 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

I thank you for posting this. Ashlyn's reply to Dan was... intreresting. Unexpected, really, but therefore good, as it were, because it threw me off a bit on how I had pretty much assumed most black ppl might react to non-POC ppl supporting their cause. For the same reason, I value your own input (over what I might have thought).

I can never truly understand life in a black community, of course; much like I can never truly grasp what it must have been like to have been a Jew during WW 2. Nonetheless, I feel, my lack of true knowledge despite, I should still speak up. Like that engraving at the New England Holocaust Memorial in Boston, Massachusetts (by Martin Niemöller):

They came first for the Communists,
And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

(...)

Then they came for me,
And by that time no one was left to speak up.

How was my response unexpected?
 

 

28 minutes ago, Dano Seale said:

Do the doctors know you've escaped again? Jesus!   

Is that the best you got?

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3 minutes ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

How was my response unexpected?

 

In that I, almost as a given, really, assumed black ppl would pretty much like the idea of others rallying for their cause of not being discriminated against. Your reply to him put a dent in that notion of mine, so it was a bit of a learning moment for me, is all.

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5 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

In that I, almost as a given, really, assumed black ppl would pretty much like the idea of others rallying for their cause of not being discriminated against. Your reply to him put a dent in that notion of mine, so it was a bit of a learning moment for me, is all.

Ok... here’s my honest opinion and it might upset a lot of people and for that I apologize but it’s how I feel. This simply just isn’t your fight. I know many whites and non-black POCs are rallying for the whole BLM movement, but it really isn’t your fight. I’m not saying y’all can’t be an ally and I’m not saying that y’all can’t protest because that is your right as an American citizen. I’m more likely to be targeted than a white or Asian or hispanic/Latina woman. But, people want to make this an all lives thing. And all lives do matter, but based on actions and history...black lives don’t. 
 

This country is too far deep in a history filled with violence and hatred. I used to be a straight up black supremacist. Like. I’m talking hated anyone who wasn’t black. But, I appreciate non-black people attempting to show me some kindness and I learned to open my mind much more than I did. I welcome other races in my personal life or social circles if they want to be. 
 

but, I mean that’s not going to change my experiences or deep thoughts.
 

I dunno what I’m trying to say, really. On one hand I know people want a change but all of this seems so convenient especially during this whole pandemic. I mean why now do people want to go so hard all of a sudden when this has been going on for centuries? It just seems like there’s an agenda or people using this as some sort of Coachella experience just to leave the house. Or people using this as a means to bring attention to their own people. I dunno. 
 

Do people really want true equality...and lose their privilege? That’s my question. I mean, people can preach all day, but realistically black men are more likely to be incarceration. Black women are more likely to be single and unmarried. Black children are more likely to live in poverty. Black on black crime is an issue. Or...the racial wealth gap between blacks and whites. Life doesn’t stop for us just because people want to rally and protest when nothing has changed. 

It would be helpful to change the way the system is and build up the black community. It would be helpful to educate people who are more set in there ways and make them see another perspective. But, I’m cynical and I don’t think anything will change due to all of this. It’ll happen again, I’m sure. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

Ok... here’s my honest opinion and it might upset a lot of people and for that I apologize but it’s how I feel. This simply just isn’t your fight. I know many whites and non-black POCs are rallying for the whole BLM movement, but it really isn’t your fight. I’m not saying y’all can’t be an ally and I’m not saying that y’all can’t protest because that is your right as an American citizen. I’m more likely to be targeted than a white or Asian or hispanic/Latina woman. But, people want to make this an all lives thing. And all lives do matter, but based on actions and history...black lives don’t. 
 

This country is too far deep in a history filled with violence and hatred. I used to be a straight up black supremacist. Like. I’m talking hated anyone who wasn’t black. But, I appreciate non-black people attempting to show me some kindness and I learned to open my mind much more than I did. I welcome other races in my personal life or social circles if they want to be. 
 

but, I mean that’s not going to change my experiences or deep thoughts.
 

I dunno what I’m trying to say, really. On one hand I know people want a change but all of this seems so convenient especially during this whole pandemic. I mean why now do people want to go so hard all of a sudden when this has been going on for centuries? It just seems like there’s an agenda or people using this as some sort of Coachella experience just to leave the house. Or people using this as a means to bring attention to their own people. I dunno. 
 

Do people really want true equality...and lose their privilege? That’s my question. I mean, people can preach all day, but realistically black men are more likely to be incarceration. Black women are more likely to be single and unmarried. Black children are more likely to live in poverty. Black on black crime is an issue. Or...the racial wealth gap between blacks and whites. Life doesn’t stop for us just because people want to rally and protest when nothing has changed. 

It would be helpful to change the way the system is and build up the black community. It would be helpful to educate people who are more set in there ways and make them see another perspective. But, I’m cynical and I don’t think anything will change due to all of this. It’ll happen again, I’m sure. 

 

I totally get where your coming from "who is there for the pleasure of simply saying they participated" It is so hard to not feel that way when it took until now for this quantity of non POC people to stand by the black community, BUT and this is mainly through my experience I can understand why it has taken now for people to take note. Time has paused for many of us, we have been cooped up in our homes for the past 3-4 months and for people who are not going through there normal day to day there eyes and ears have more time to see what is happening in front of them to a specific group of people.

And again, as we are apart of the black community we have to accept that there will be honest and genuine people out there that simply were unaware and want to now help. We cannot forget that the struggles we have are not ones others have to go through and speak about as often as we do. But we also have to accept that there is a group of people participating simply for the fun and trend BUT that group should not close us off from honest old AND new helping hands.

I come from a Jamaican family (islander families are filled with a mixed group of family members typically) so it hard for me to see a non POC the same way as you because i could never look my uncles wife and her kids (who are white) for example like they could never understand because i know they are there for me 100%. Same goes for my white friends who grew up in a primary black community, when they stand for me I know they are there for me and the community.  

 

Nothing about this is perfect, and I agree it will get worse before it gets better and unfortunately yes corrupt governments, white supremacy, etc will be around till the day we all die. but moments like what just happened in Minneapolis, those moments are why i keep fighting even if it means some Instagram influencer gets his/her photo op in front of a BLM protest. 

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9 hours ago, kiramanell said:

 

I agree.

One cannot esscape the irony of the white man crying foul over his property, when lack of property, aka poverty among black people, as a result of literally hundreds of years of racism/discrimination against them, is readily ignored.

I too remain absolutely committed to non-violent action. And looting should not occur; but, like with All Lives Matter, the auspicious timing and focus on bringing up the white man's property loss, as the thing to walk away with from these riots, is equally demonstrative of choosing to focus on the wrong part of what's happening. It's all just a form of deflection.

 

7 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

It’s pretty gross how this thread that was supposed to be about BLM has turned into white people arguing about looting.

The Klan would be so proud.

Well. There it is.

 

6 hours ago, Gatogateau said:

So... discussing looting as a separate issue to the protests, specifying it as such... means you are not an ally instead you'd make the Klan proud? I just want to be sure I'm understanding you correctly. Or one can't discuss something that isn't specifically OP, which is "are you showing support for BLM in SL" which probably has only been discussed on 1 page out of 48? The rest is derail.

Like I said earlier. Some people are just desperate to have enemies at all costs.

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32 minutes ago, lHorizonl said:

I totally get where your coming from "who is there for the pleasure of simply saying they participated" It is so hard to not feel that way when it took until now for this quantity of non POC people to stand by the black community, BUT and this is mainly through my experience I can understand why it has taken now for people to take note. Time has paused for many of us, we have been cooped up in our homes for the past 3-4 months and for people who are not going through there normal day to day there eyes and ears have more time to see what is happening in front of them to a specific group of people.

And again, as we are apart of the black community we have to accept that there will be honest and genuine people out there that simply were unaware and want to now help. We cannot forget that the struggles we have are not ones others have to go through and speak about as often as we do. But we also have to accept that there is a group of people participating simply for the fun and trend BUT that group should not close us off from honest old AND new helping hands.

I come from a Jamaican family (islander families are filled with a mixed group of family members typically) so it hard for me to see a non POC the same way as you because i could never look my uncles wife and her kids (who are white) for example like they could never understand because i know they are there for me 100%. Same goes for my white friends who grew up in a primary black community, when they stand for me I know they are there for me and the community.  

 

Nothing about this is perfect, and I agree it will get worse before it gets better and unfortunately yes corrupt governments, white supremacy, etc will be around till the day we all die. but moments like what just happened in Minneapolis, those moments are why i keep fighting even if it means some Instagram influencer gets his/her photo op in front of a BLM protest. 

I thought more people would have been outraged with Trayvon or Tamir Rice...I mean...those were kids. Like...didn’t no one protest when a black girl (a child) was body slammed by a cop or another little (a child) black girl beaten...or old black ladies being beaten or black women getting their throats slashed. Smh. Everyday I see there’s a protest and everyday there’s a freaking helicopter flying over my house. It’s crazy. But, I just low key feel like people are using this man’s death to just get out and do something, you know? I mean, you figure most people are out of work or have nothing to do because of the pandemic. So, this rallying is basically just for them to do something when I mean..stuff has been going on for a hot minute. 

I mean, you an I lead totally different lives and have totally different perspectives, but hey that’s life.

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25 minutes ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

I thought more people would have been outraged with Trayvon or Tamir Rice...I mean...those were kids. Like...didn’t no one protest when a black girl (a child) was body slammed by a cop or another little (a child) black girl beaten...or old black ladies being beaten or black women getting their throats slashed. Smh. Everyday I see there’s a protest and everyday there’s a freaking helicopter flying over my house. It’s crazy. But, I just low key feel like people are using this man’s death to just get out and do something, you know? I mean, you figure most people are out of work or have nothing to do because of the pandemic. So, this rallying is basically just for them to do something when I mean..stuff has been going on for a hot minute

mostly what you say here is correct.  Due to covid, people do have time, which they would not otherwise, to protest

this killing is another in a long line of killings like you say

what I think tips people over with this, is that the police officer knows he is being recorded, and can see and hear people remonstrating him. He knows that he is hurting Mr Floyd. And he doesn't care that people can see him doing this. People who do care and have time to protest, so they do

 

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2 hours ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

But, people want to make this an all lives thing. And all lives do matter, but based on actions and history...black lives don’t. 
 

I gather you've never heard of the genocides all over the world? 

"People want to make this an all lives thing", your quote.  So, you think people other than black people who were beaten, abused or murdered at the hands of the police other than black people mattered?   If people other than black people mattered, then why were they murdered?  

 

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19 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

I gather you've never heard of the genocides all over the world? 

"People want to make this an all lives thing", your quote.  So, you think people other than black people who were beaten, abused or murdered at the hands of the police other than black people mattered?   If people other than black people mattered, then why were they murdered?  

 

This confused me a bit but I might just need clarification. I believe (could be wrong) Ashlyn is saying that the phrase "all lives matter" is something Ashlyn wishes the world could be  but it is not the reality (hence his statement about history/past events). I could be wrong but that is what it read to me.

We hope for equality "All lives matter" but history has proven that it just is not true for certain groups of people. And at this moment in time for this very specific topic/post we are talking about one of those specific groups which right now is the topic surrounding the black community. . 

Edited by lHorizonl
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18 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

I gather you've never heard of the genocides all over the world? 

"People want to make this an all lives thing", your quote.  So, you think people other than black people who were beaten, abused or murdered at the hands of the police other than black people mattered?   If people other than black people mattered, then why were they murdered?  

 

Nice straw man. See, that’s the type of stuff I’m taking about. Always make it about other people and derail from the actual issue, but go off or whatever. I’m gonna stick to my own kind who are like me, don’t have time for stupidity anymore. Goodnight. 

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4 hours ago, lHorizonl said:

We hope for equality "All lives matter" but history has proven that it just is not true for certain groups of people.

To have all lives matter, those who believe certain lives do not, need to be confronted first until all lives actually do matter.

And those who do not believe all lives matter, have any colour of our creed, just like those who do.

That has always been the major problem. It' s regardless of colour of skin.

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