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Are You Showing Support for Black Lives Matter in Second Life?


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1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I don't know that I would call it patronizing but I can see where it looks that way to others. To me, personally, it comes off as condescending more than patronizing. Both are wrong.

I can't justify the looting or destruction because that is just outright theft and unnecessary, unlawful violence perpetrated by those who want nothing more than for the ones protesting to be blamed for. The raiding that is also going on at the same time? I'm not going to condemn someone for trying to keep their selves or families fed, clothed and/or sheltered in the middle of a pandemic when the economy is tanking and unemployment at a nationwide all time high. 

I can't help but sit here and shake my head thinking, "You idiots (white) created this mess, now you have to get ALL of us out of it."

Thank you. I know you don't represent All Non-Whites (nor would I even want to put that responsibility on you), but I truly wanted to hear from someone who wasn't operating out of white liberal guilt to comment. That din, my own additions to it included, has been loud.

"Condescending" is a better word than patronizing. Wish I had used it, as it is closer to what I'm thinking.

We idiot whites did create this mess, a long time ago. I don't think we can go back in time and have a do-over, but what is left is now so entrenched... I wrote to Janet about twenty pages ago (?) that as a basically average person I am feeling helpless. I'm responsible for my own actions, and I do try to keep tabs on myself as I think racism (or "other-ism") is just inherently human. I do vote, and not for Cheetos. Etc. but... watching all of this, I know I'm not the only one going "yeah, it is broken on so many levels, how do WE fix it?" I'm aware enough to know that the brutal murder of Mr. Floyd was not a one-off but another example of what has been going on since...ever in this history of this country. And yeah, to all non-whites, and a whole lotta differences in that to the Native Americans. I see it. And I'm just like... ok... sigh... I'm useless.

I will say that ultimately your statement of "...now you have to get ALL of us out of it" is spot on BUT we also can't do it alone. The people who CAN do something need to work with "the oppressed" (for lack of a better global term). Us "little folk" need to hear more from y'all. I'm not living in a cocoon (I wish!) and I'm aware, in general, of the sorry state of a lot of things in our country, but still need to hear the stories, the input, the perspective of people who are still experiencing things. I can talk about poverty. I can't talk about much of the other. I can listen.

 

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28 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

I just added this to the comment you replied to, too late it seems. My original comment that I want to discuss with you as a non-white person was this:

I find this whole thing about "justifiable damages" as patronizing to the very groups you are claiming to be concerned about.

"Oh look at those poor people. They can't help themselves. We are so benevolent in our largesse that we will excuse anything on their behalf because the poor dears can't help it. It is in their nature. We will allow it." Fornicate that. Talk about speaking from a position of white privilege. That's pretty damn lily white.

I don't know if that clarifies what I mean by white patronization?

Looting/vandalism as it applies to the current BLM and "things."

I've been saying that while I *fully* understand the *wanting* to loot/etc out of pent up frustration of oppression (I wrote a few pages back about living in extreme poverty and my very real understanding of wanting to lash out, and I've only been experiencing my poverty and oppression for about ten years without the racial discrimination on top of it.) Wanting to do it is justifiable and understandable (well, depending upon individual motivation). Acting upon it is just wrong. For white people to sit back and say "Well, the damages, while regrettable are justifiable because those people have been discriminitated against" seems to me to be patronizing, as above.

 

'Justifiable' is not a term that really works for me in this discussion. We all agreed we wouldn't loot. That's just the Law. Understandable, is quite another thing, though. And not even in ther sense of "I get why they're doing it" per se, but more in terms of understanding why centering on the white man's property is not the greatest focus of ppl. And that, to me, is the crux of the matter: wanting to stay focussed. I'm seeing some looting, but I choose to stay focussed on what these riots are about, instead of illegitimizing the protests altogether because of some unwanted behavior at the fringes, like a certain carrot in the White House would have me do. I am not excusing looting. I just don't want it to become the focus point of attention, ere someone, eager on beating down the black man's protests, starts to yell "When the looting starts, the shooting starts." I want this to remain about people's lawful, Constitutional right of Assembly, and to have the freedom to protest for equal justice under the law.

Hence, whilst obviously all lives matter, I don't want the truism to detract from the BLM sentiment. Much like I won't allow these riots to become defined by this (what really has been marginal) looting by a few bad apples.

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27 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

"Condescending" is a better word

It's not condescending to judge another as kindly as possible -- it's an act of love.

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12 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

'Justifiable' is not a term that really works for me in this discussion. We all agreed we wouldn't loot. That's just the Law. Understandable, is quite another thing, though. And not even in ther sense of "I get why they're doing it" per se, but more in terms of understanding why centering on the white man's property is not the greatest focus of ppl. And that, to me, is the crux of the matter: wanting to stay focussed. I'm seeing some looting, but I choose to stay focussed on what these riots are about, instead of illegitimizing the protests altogether because of some unwanted behavior at the fringes, like a certain carrot in the White House would have me do. I am not excusing looting. I just don't want it to become the focus point of attention, ere someone, eager on beating down the black man's protests, starts to yell "When the looting starts, the shooting starts." I want this to remain about people's lawful, Constitutional right of Assembly, and to have the freedom to protest for equal justice under the law.

Hence, whilst obviously all lives matter, I don't want the truism to detract from the BLM sentiment. Much like I won't allow these riots to become defined by this (what really has been marginal) looting by a few bad apples.

You are using riot and protest interchangeably when they are not. They are two different things.

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5 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

Hence, whilst obviously all lives matter, I don't want the truism to detract from the BLM sentiment. Much like I won't allow these riots to become defined by this (what really has been marginal) looting by a few bad apples.

Exactly, while obviously all lives matter, I, too, don't want the truism to distract from the BLM sentiment.  But, I have to allow the riots, death and destruction to be defined by a few racist cops - who are looking at life in prison for their heinous crimes?    This is accountability.  I want to same for any person who acts as these police acted.    Accountability is how we grow as a civilization.

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1 minute ago, Beth Macbain said:

It’s pretty gross how this thread that was supposed to be about BLM has turned into white people arguing about looting.

The Klan would be so proud.

Wow. Really?

The Klan, huh? Thanks.

Yup, I'm outta here like y'all suggested. I'm sure the applause sign will be on.

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image.png.2d7117ea1be52b1a5aa269a54e73f81b.png

(screenshot because I can't do the embedded quoting)

The fix Selene did is what about 45 pages of (so far) 48 have been. So, if people want to point fingers, if you're white and posting in this thread... Even better if you're white and you don't live in the USA.

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12 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

 

 

And white people arguing about this is bad why exactly? I would have preferred if more ppl of color had replied in this thread (other than the ones that identified themselves as black). But, frankly, being white, I'm ashamed to admit moments like these are usually the ONLY time racism against black ppl is being discused. :( So, I say it's high time white folks got involved too. As the article Beth posted ironically said:

"It’s time for all of us to step up and show our solidarity and support. We need to listen, we need to learn, we need to act. Black people shouldn’t have to fight this battle alone. This is a movement that needs all of us."

If being white disqualifies me from the discussion somehow, I will withdraw; but I don't think it should. In fact, I hope BLM will continue to stay on my lips, long after this, and that it's high time we ALL start talking about this, for realz, and not as the fad-du-jour.

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11 minutes ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

I'm glad that I hadn't quite left yet and saw this. THANK YOU!!!!!! I've hit subscribe on her channel and will get more from that than listening to all the choir preaching to themselves here. I have a low tolerance for being able to watch real life violence, it does affect me and my PTSD. I did watch the snuff film of Mr. Floyd's murder. I had not watched the video of the old guy being pushed down by the Buffalo police. I knew of it but... didn't know that the guy was white and that one cop started to help him up and was pulled away from helping. What shocked me was seeing how many white protestors were getting shot and beaten, and more white people (especially those who watch FOX) need to see that. If they don't get enraged about blacks getting beaten/killed maybe seeing white people beaten/killed will wake them up??? I found myself both shaking my head up and down in agreement with the narrator, such as "if y'all were shocked by this then you weren't paying attention" etc (and heavily paraphrased) and shaking my head side to side at watching the videos and listening to the story about the LA chief of police and his photo op vs what went on immediately following. Anyway, I'm rambling, because I'm really thankful for this new resource. I look forward to watching more.

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Allies are important. Necessary even.

An ally says black lives matter.

I question whether or not an ally is a true ally when they absolutely, positively have to add “but” to the end of that statement.

”Black lives matter BUT so do all others.”

”Black lives matter BUT looting is wrong.”

”Black lives matter BUT there are an awful lot of black criminals.”

”Black lives matter BUT he shouldn’t have resisted arrest.”

Why is it so hard to just say black lives matter, period, and end it there?

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8 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

And white people arguing about this is bad why exactly? I would have preferred if more ppl of color had replied in this thread (other than the ones that identified themselves as black). But, frankly, being white, I'm ashamed to admit moments like these are usually the ONLY time racism against black ppl is being discused. :( So, I say it's high time white folks got involved too. As the article Beth posted ironically said:

"It’s time for all of us to step up and show our solidarity and support. We need to listen, we need to learn, we need to act. Black people shouldn’t have to fight this battle alone. This is a movement that needs all of us."

If being white disqualifies me from the discussion somehow, I will withdraw; but I don't think it should. In fact, I hope BLM will continue to stay on my lips, long after this, and that it's high time we ALL start talking about this, for realz, and not as the fad-du-jour.

The problem is there isn't a discussion going on between POC and whites. It's an argument between whites that should be listening instead of talking. There is no point in discussing if no one is listening. I do mean listen, not just hear. And that is why there aren't many POC in this thread trying to discuss the issues.

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2 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

I'm glad that I hadn't quite left yet and saw this. THANK YOU!!!!!! I've hit subscribe on her channel and will get more from that than listening to all the choir preaching to themselves here. I have a low tolerance for being able to watch real life violence, it does affect me and my PTSD. I did watch the snuff film of Mr. Floyd's murder. I had not watched the video of the old guy being pushed down by the Buffalo police. I knew of it but... didn't know that the guy was white and that one cop started to help him up and was pulled away from helping. What shocked me was seeing how many white protestors were getting shot and beaten, and more white people (especially those who watch FOX) need to see that. If they don't get enraged about blacks getting beaten/killed maybe seeing white people beaten/killed will wake them up??? I found myself both shaking my head up and down in agreement with the narrator, such as "if y'all were shocked by this then you weren't paying attention" etc (and heavily paraphrased) and shaking my head side to side at watching the videos and listening to the story about the LA chief of police and his photo op vs what went on immediately following. Anyway, I'm rambling, because I'm really thankful for this new resource. I look forward to watching more.

Did you notice the pool of blood that started forming immediately under the old man's head? I did. It doubled in size before you could no longer see.

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1 minute ago, Beth Macbain said:

Allies are important. Necessary even.

An ally says black lives matter.

I question whether or not an ally is a true ally when they absolutely, positively have to add “but” to the end of that statement.

”Black lives matter BUT so do all others.”

”Black lives matter BUT looting is wrong.”

”Black lives matter BUT there are an awful lot of black criminals.”

”Black lives matter BUT he shouldn’t have resisted arrest.”

Why is it so hard to just say black lives matter, period, and end it there?

So... discussing looting as a separate issue to the protests, specifying it as such... means you are not an ally instead you'd make the Klan proud? I just want to be sure I'm understanding you correctly. Or one can't discuss something that isn't specifically OP, which is "are you showing support for BLM in SL" which probably has only been discussed on 1 page out of 48? The rest is derail.

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2 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Did you notice the pool of blood that started forming immediately under the old man's head? I did. It doubled in size before you could no longer see.

Yes. I'm still shaking. I really cannot... and someone was pulled away from helping and ALLOWED himself to be pulled away... and the people helping the (white) protestor in Austin who was shot in the head who had backs turned away from the cops and were still getting shot at...and... 

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Just now, Gatogateau said:

Yes. I'm still shaking. I really cannot... and someone was pulled away from helping and ALLOWED himself to be pulled away... and the people helping the (white) protestor in Austin who was shot in the head who had backs turned away from the cops and were still getting shot at...and... 

Welcome to the world of non-whites.

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7 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Welcome to the world of non-whites.

And that is why I said to Ashlyn that I was surprised at the number of whites being abused by the cops, and that it is a "good" thing (not a good thing), and more whites need to see this because maybe some people can't parse it when the victims don't look like themselves but can if they do?

I don't even know how to respond to "Welcome ... " because yeah. I know what you mean. And, no, I don't know what you mean. And, yeah, for someone who doesn't get it I get it and no... sigh.  Human peeve: People. ETA : People in general, not Selene.

Edited by Gatogateau
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1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

@Gatogateau

I know your heart is breaking. Stop a moment and think of how many centuries our hearts have been broken on a daily basis. When you can see the difference, then you will understand that it wasn't meant as a poke at you.

Sweetie (said genuinely and not sarcastically)... I didn't take it as a poke at me. I typed what I did about not knowing how to respond to the "Welcome to..." because I *am* thinking about the centuries of strife... :::hug:::

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1 minute ago, Gatogateau said:

Sweetie (said genuinely and not sarcastically)... I didn't take it as a poke at me. I typed what I did about not knowing how to respond to the "Welcome to..." because I *am* thinking about the centuries of strife... :::hug:::

Just making sure. glomp.gif.47f308a58cb15b6a288725d86deebf1f.gif

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