Are You Showing Support for Black Lives Matter in Second Life?

[Gatogateau]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Overall, I'm not a fan. He's much better at producing good sound bites and photo ops than he is at actually doing anything about these things. (Although, I will give him credit for handling the pandemic pretty well.)

On the other hand, this kind of public support does matter, and does make a difference. So, points for that.

What most warms me about it is that he has accurately gauged where the sympathies of most Canadians lie: with BLM and the protestors.

Plus, don't forget the most important thing: HE'S CUTE!!!

Also, more seriously, I love the way he handles "what do you think about Trump..." questions. That 20+ seconds of silence and making subtle faces was brill. Now picture Trump doing that. Totally impossible. Obama? Yup, he could do it. H. Clinton? Yeah, though she might not pull off the cute faces as well. Biden? Probably but he'd make the mic screech or something else awkward. Mayor Pete, oh yeah, he could pull that off. Etc. 

[Aethelwine]

6 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Overall, I'm not a fan. He's much better at producing good sound bites and photo ops than he is at actually doing anything about these things. (Although, I will give him credit for handling the pandemic pretty well.)

On the other hand, this kind of public support does matter, and does make a difference. So, points for that.

What most warms me about it is that he has accurately gauged where the sympathies of most Canadians lie: with BLM and the protestors.

He may not be perfect but in contrast he appears to be the adult, where Trump is like a child having a tantrum.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Gatogateau said:

Plus, don't forget the most important thing: HE'S CUTE!!!

Yeah yeah yeah. He's a cuddly soft liberal teddy bear. Yeah, I'd dance with him.

But I'd trade him in a second for Jacinda Ardern.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, Aethelwine said:

He may not be perfect but in contrast he appears to be the adult, where Trump is like a child having a tantrum.

Actually, I'll admit . . . he does seem to have matured since his first term in office. And he's on the side of the angels, generally.

 

[Gatogateau]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yeah yeah yeah. He's a cuddly soft liberal teddy bear. Yeah, I'd dance with him.

But I'd trade him in a second for Jacinda Ardern.

Yeah, but would he have to pay your for that dance and how much? Ooops. Wrong thread. Sorry.

[Ceka Cianci]

1 minute ago, Extrude Ragu said:

If you think that small business will survive this, along with those people in the news who had their low income homes burnt down then I am willing to humble down and take my place on the back seat. 

I only feel stressed when people appear to be wilfully ignoring problems that appear to be quite pressing. I want to know that something will be done. That's all.

It's very tricky because each business is different and some ran better than others, some more successful than others..some  may benefit from this and end up in a better place with replacing things that were out of date, getting that new freezer they have been trying wanting for awhile now.. some may lose their business because of it being cut so close that they were struggling to keep it running or some behind on a lot of things..

 

I'm not trying to justify vandalism or violence  at all.. A lot will depend on the individual business as well as the community as to how they will do in the end of all this..

A lot of times the community itself will help with support in things like this as well..

I would just keep my ear to the ground and see what the community is going to do..Has the mayor or any of the public officials said anything about the businesses impacted?

 

I just know this much, If I'm paying for insurance, them somb!ches better come through in my time of need.. My husband has zero tolerance for con artists..

I'd just hate to be in my insurance agents shoes if that ever happened..because He gets old school sometimes.. And when it comes to livelihood, I'd fill the gas for his truck to get him there..hehehehe

[Extrude Ragu]

5 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

Here's me being unpopular again...

There are different sides to be heard, and different ways to say them. I don't agree with what a lot of @Extrude Ragu has been saying, although there's a bit in there that I do. However, with all the crazy fighting that has been going on in the forums since the lockdown with COVID, I'm happy to see someone voicing a different opinion in a calm and polite manner, and I think Extrude has been doing that. Thank you. Usually by now it would be ad hominems flying and all sorts of things.

I don't mind if people disagree with me and I do second guess my own opinions. I try my best to pretense what I say with 'I think' so as to mark my opinions as just that. 

I know I get tense. I'm trying my best to be reasonable I guess when I see the videos with the burning buildings and the gun fire and the sirens it sounds and looks like a war zone and I feel a bit stressed.

I do support the protestors, I do think Black Lives Matter. My fear is that the protests are being allowed to be hijacked by evil people who will ultimately cause more resentment. I want to see those people stopped.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

14 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I do support the protestors, I do think Black Lives Matter. My fear is that the protests are being allowed to be hijacked by evil people who will ultimately cause more resentment.

I don't know about "evil people": I'm not sure I know what that means. By people who are opportunists, who don't care about the cause of the protests, or who may even be trying to undermine it? For sure.

But there's also a lot of pretty justified anger behind at least some of the destruction.

I don't give a damn if they burn down a Target; I do care, as you obviously do, if a local ma and pa convenience store gets torched. And I worry, as do you, that the violence is counterproductive, which is certainly the view of right wing agitators who are trying to encourage it. I wish it would end.

But I think you need to adopt a more complex and nuanced understanding of the violence. There are a lot of different people engaged in it, for a lot of different reasons, many of which probably have nothing to do with, or may actually be in opposition to, BLM.

And none of it in any way undercuts the urgency of ending the kind of violence that George Floyd experienced, and that black men and women must deal with on a daily basis.

But I think you know that.

[kali Wylder]

2 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I really miss him hosting that show.. It was one of my favorite shows at the time.

me too, I still watch and I love Trvor Noah too but I miss John.  I think around 2001 or 2 he was voter the most trusted name in news, which is funny since he ran a fake news show.

 

[Lyssa Greymoon]

Maybe they should go back to doing something completely non-violent that won’t cause resentment, like, maybe kneeling during the national anthem at a football game.

oh. 

[Ceka Cianci]

28 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I don't mind if people disagree with me and I do second guess my own opinions. I try my best to pretense what I say with 'I think' so as to mark my opinions as just that. 

I know I get tense. I'm trying my best to be reasonable I guess when I see the videos with the burning buildings and the gun fire and the sirens it sounds and looks like a war zone and I feel a bit stressed.

I do support the protestors, I do think Black Lives Matter. My fear is that the protests are being allowed to be hijacked by evil people who will ultimately cause more resentment. I want to see those people stopped.

 

I remember watching the first big march of BLM as it was being televised..I'm sure a lot in here seen it as well.. It felt like i was watching something amazing and peaceful,which it was..

they were just walking  not even chanting anything.. The media was calmly talking about it.. It was really something to see and to sit down for and pay attention too..

I was just saying to myself at the time, This is what it is about right here..This is how it's done.

Then some Self absorbed maniac with his own agenda decided to make it his own and start killing police and turning something so peaceful into a pure terror and nightmare..

Those people are the leeches that makes things so much harder on everyone else..

 

So many people attached that guy to BLM when he was clearly running alone and even saying himself he wasn't part of BLM..

It was good to see BLM for what it really is, before the leeches..

that was such a terrible night to watch unfold..

It's a sad shame any time it happens..

 

 

[Ceka Cianci]

20 minutes ago, kali Wylder said:

me too, I still watch and I love Trvor Noah too but I miss John.  I think around 2001 or 2 he was voter the most trusted name in news, which is funny since he ran a fake news show.

 

I was glad to see he was taking it over because i loved his standup.. I even loved his standup show after he took the show over..

I think he just took it to a more serious, less funny approach compared to how it was before.. That and everywhere I looked,everyone was doing Trump material..I mean Eeeeeeveryone.

I was just so worn out on hearing Trump in everything I watched, that I ended up getting a roku and canceling out service provider TV..

Like Bill Burr once said..Does it really matter who it is? I mean how many times do we see him or hear is name? like every 5 weeks? hehehe

I wish!! \o/

 

hehehe

[Extrude Ragu]

It's 6am here in the UK. I should probably sleep.

Thank you to those who were patient with me and humoured me.

I know my opinions can be disagreeable but it feels good to be able to discuss them openly and feel respected. I want you to know that  In some ways my feelings about the events unfolding have changed. 

[Coffee Pancake]

The looters here were nothing to do with the protests which were, for the most part, happening well away from the big box / chain stores / malls that got hit. Followed much of it with online radio scanners.

Personally, I don't shed a tear when a chain gets turned over during a protest. They are part of the problem funneling huge profits for shareholders and investors while paying their staff as little as they can get away with. Only the poor, disadvantaged and minorities work retail and retail likes it that way.

Many of the stores that got hit are also the ones deemed "essential", and spent much of the covid epidemic sat on their hands, preventing their staff from using any PPE at all whilst spending cash advertising about how we're all in this together. There is a LOT of resentment here towards the local mega brands. It's no surprise that PoC have been disproportionately affected.

Big box stores that have been hardest hit, are now seeing some long overdue corporate investment and getting refits, which is a big positive considering (here at least) the roughest stores that spend the least on upkeep, are also the ones that serve minority neighborhoods.

[stlshayne]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Overall, I'm not a fan. He's much better at producing good sound bites and photo ops than he is at actually doing anything about these things. (Although, I will give him credit for handling the pandemic pretty well.)

On the other hand, this kind of public support does matter, and does make a difference. So, points for that.

What most warms me about it is that he has accurately gauged where the sympathies of most Canadians lie: with BLM and the protestors.

I don't know, I've seen some pretty bad photos of him. 😂

[stlshayne]

Hope this is OK to post here, there's a game bundle that's out right now - $3400 worth of indie games for a minimum of a $5 donation towards BLM: https://itch.io/b/520/bundle-for-racial-justice-and-equality

[Paul Hexem]

15 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I haven't followed the discussion sufficiently closely to know what's being discussed here, but when someone takes exception to something I've said or done and tells me I'm being racist or sexist or homophobic or whatever, my reaction, unless I think they're deliberately misunderstanding me, is to take what they say seriously, look at what they object to, and ask myself myself what exactly I was trying to say, and how I have said it differently, in a way that would not have merited this criticism.

If I can see what the problem is, I'll apologise and try to rephrase and reformulate my point (unless I wish to withdraw it altogether) or, if I still can't see the problem, I'll politely explain why I think they've mistaken what I was saying, and see what their reponse is.

I think it's always a criticism worth taking seriously, unless it's obviously bogus.

Unfortunately, like I said,

23 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

Everyone gets so hung up on needing enemies that they can't recognize when people are agreeing with them.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/1/2020 at 6:36 PM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Thanks, Orwar. For what it's worth, I am in general agreement with nearly everything you say here, barring some nuance around the issue of Antifa, which, as you say, isn't really an "organization" so much as a collective noun for "Hot Headed Idiots Who Engage in Counter-Productive and Unjustifiable Violence in the Service of a Cause that Deserves Better."

I'm actually -- believe it or not -- hoping that this thread does not, however, become a debate about the protests, riots, and so forth. I'm not trying to be "incendiary" here: I am quite seriously most interested in the ways that people are expressing their support in-world.

That said, it's also pretty clear, I'm sure, that my own interest isn't merely "academic." One of the reasons I'm interested in hearing about how BLM is being articulated in SL is that I hope to get some good hints and ideas from it.

It's not that the socialist cause "deserves better"; it's that it attracts violent criminals because it is itself an ideology of crime.

I'm generally in favour of the protests by BLM and others which are largely peaceful, and which highlight real issues of horrifying proportions.

But I'm not for anti-fa which is a form of Bolshevism with the same kind of history and tactics; see the Soviet infiltration of the anti-fa of the 1930s.

The energy that people expend in justifying this violent group and claiming's a loose network, or it means well is the same kind of energy they put into white-washing the Soviets or for that matter the Woodbury griefers, and for the same ideological reasons. But the protesters are mainly BLM and related groups which has had 4 years to organize since the police murders of the Obama Administration; they will decide how it goes, not anti-fa or white supremacists who may be over-represented at central bookings, but do not make up the face of the crowds, which is black not white.

Let's not get bogged down in the BLM charter of 2016 which was ridiculous and they themselves then suppressed it. At this point, I invite you just to look at this video.

It shows the most liberal mayor in America from the Democratic and Farm Parties who has just eliminated the chokehold as a police method and has done many other things in Minneopolis, where George Floyd was murdered by a police officer who put a knee to his neck.

Demonstrators march to the mayor's home and call him out. Unlike our own NYC socialist mayor who would hide inside, he does come out, wearing a mask due to COVID.

They ask him whether he supports defunding of police, the latest dramatic call of the BLM marches.

He said no, he can't do that.

Which is eminently reasonable. For one, you'd lose a lot of jobs for people of colour -- not to mention the mayhem that would result with no police. What's the plan, Cuban-style neighbourhood patrols? Soviet-style druzhinniki? I can't imagine.

But they ran him out of the meeting with boos and cries of "Shame, Shame".

So you see where it is headed, not to a good place. Frankly, I'd rather have Mayor Frey and whatever improved police and city council he can muster. Some of the BLM demands for greater transparency, greater inclusiveness, more funding of communities make sense and I'd vote for them. But not abolition of the police. That's extreme, like "Medicare for All". The extremism we always get from the Squad and the rest.

This brings us not better worlds, but Trump, and locally, more people like the mayor of Portland texting with the Proud Boys or whatever the supremacists are. A colleague of mine has been brutally beaten by NYPD during the protests. A friend of my daughter's filmed the most outrageous looting and smashing of the Best Buy store. it's just chaos out there, and COVID to come again.I can't support either police beatings or trashing of stores. 

As for activity in SL, raising money in SL is a problem because you have to pay fees to get it out. I would steer people to bail funds and such in RL.

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Prokofy Neva

[Prokofy Neva]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

 

I don't give a damn if they burn down a Target; I do care, as you obviously do, if a local ma and pa convenience store gets torched. .

There it is, the socialist ethos in a nutshell. Death to capitalism and big box stores; well, we'll let a few little cooperatives survive to get people fed since state distribution is so poor. Except, the poor people buy their cheaper clothes at Target. 

[Coffee Pancake]

2 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

There it is, the socialist ethos in a nutshell. Death to capitalism and big box stores; well, we'll let a few little cooperatives survive to get people fed since state distribution is so poor. Except, the poor people buy their cheaper clothes at Target. 

The bog box stores have destroyed all the local business everywhere they have moved. There is a reason you can buy everything at Walmart.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/1/2020 at 6:27 PM, Orwar said:

   Not as such, no. We don't really have that kind of thing here as, well, our law enforcement seldom gun down people - and whilst I obviously do not condone of it, I'm hesitant to give my 'official' (i.e. 'personal') support to any movement which I don't fully grasp. No one should have to live in fear of violence or prejudice from one's own nations law enforcement, and that this is happening in a supposedly modern nation appears rather absurd. 

   I do however, for once, agree with Trump's sentiment of calling Antifa a terrorist organisation. Whilst I understand that they aren't really a very organized organization, anyone who willingly join a group which through violence seek to disturb the democratic process should be viewed as a potential threat, especially as they often recruit very young teens who don't understand what they are getting themselves into. Here, they've been responsible from everything from invading the homes of right-wing politicians, attacking their families, stalking their spouses and children, even putting out 'bounties' on people promising cash and knuckledusters (illegal weapons, by our laws) to anyone who 'teach them a lesson'. 

   Protesting is one thing, and one thing that I can fully get behind. But the rioting and looting, attacking random police officers in retribution? That's simply not constructive, it's opportunistic and destructive, greedy and disrespectful of the real issue and its victims.

I could say a lot about anti-fa from my years of working on the war in Ukraine, which was invaded by Russia -- and the anti-fa from Europe and Russia taking the side of the Kremlin, and often lying about their true nature.

But Trump is completely loony on this idea that he can get anti-fa designated as terrorists. And that's not because they are a "loose network" -- they are only partly that, but they have very organized, trained, ideological cadres who steal credit cards and all the rest and whose nature is well known to the FBI who has indeed tracked them and arrested them and declared them a domestic terrorism concern -- but not the primary one, which is from white supremacists.

There isn't a procedure to do this designation at a federal level as he imagines -- it only exists for *foreign* terrorist groups, and there it is a contentious political process where all the branches of government are involved, and even hobbled as they are under Trump, you wouldn't get a *foreign* designation out of anti-fa for this. 

Could you get an executive order mandating the FBI to pursue them more hotly? I'm not a lawyer but I think not. I think the whole thing will collapse. But meanwhile along the way to arguiing stupidly against this without even the most basic facts, too many liberals have sanitized anti-fa, pretending they are not organized, violent anarchists. Just watch Portland videos2 on YouTube and the NBC interview of masked anti-fa -- masked, before COVID. They themselves do not hide their violent ideas and methods.

Not every act of looting and smashing comes from anti-fa; it's a mixture of right, left, and clueless kids. Children of 10 and 12, even.

[Istelathis]

On 6/6/2020 at 3:40 AM, Paul Hexem said:

That's the real problem, it works both ways. Everyone gets so hung up on needing enemies that they can't recognize when people are agreeing with them.

I really don't think that people that oppose BLM, are agreeing with people that support it. Saying "all lives matter" while arguing against black lives matter, just doesn't make sense at all.  People do tend, in general, to try to make it more complicated than it needs to be.  Black lives matter does not have to be on par with rocket science, if you think black lives matter, then great!  If not, don't tell me all lives matter.  Don't try to complicate the very simple message, and turn it into something else.

 

I'm not saying you do, I'm just speaking in general.  

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/2/2020 at 10:36 AM, Pixieplumb Flanagan said:

I have noticed a few people concerned about the possible illegality of some of the protesters' actions.  It made me think.  And I'm afraid I'm about to commit something of an internet faux pas.  Sorry not sorry. 

In the 1930s and 1940s, Germans removing gay, Jewish, differently abled, Roma, Jehovah s witnesses et al along to the ghettos and camps, were all operating strictly within the law.  Defying these orders was criminal.

When Richard and Mildred Loving got married in 1958 they were breaking the law, criminals.

When slaves escaped to Canada they were breaking the law, criminals.

When you dumped our tea into the harbour you were, yeah, you get it.

The real story of progress is littered with people who broke the law, and many of whom paid the highest price.

There's a reason for that famous Chinese curse, and interesting times are uncomfortable for the lucky and deadly for the rest.

Drumpf says he's all about law and order.  He isn't, but even if he were, that's not always a good thing.

This is an absurd way to look at it.

On Kristallnacht, Nazi thugs roamed through Jewish neighbourhoods, breaking store windows, throwing Torahs out of synagogues into the mud, beating and killing people. This was the start of the Holocaust.

Had German society been able to halt that pogrom at that stage, history may have turned out different. But it didn't. The rest is history.

To claim that breaking store windows, stealing, and beating people is somehow a form of civil disobedience on the way to a greater glory of social justice is absurd. Authoritarian societies can decide that it's "the law" to kill Jews or censor newspapers, and those challenging those measures for the greater cause of social justice then can be understood and supported.

But no society cleanses the breaking of store windows and torching of businesses as some kind of necessary stage along the way to a better world. That is, when they do, they get fascism in Portugal or communism in Cuba or Russia. Then everybody has to work 50 years to undo that.
The Boston Tea Partiers, then Mildred and Richard Loving didn't go beating up people and torching businesses to make their point. There is a concept of *just* law that often proves elusive to socialists. I guess it's pretty hopeless to get this across.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/5/2020 at 11:46 PM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Dano, a few things.

"Defunding the police" essentially means making new priorities for civic services. It means, in practice, fewer expensive "toys" for police departments (you know, the military hardware, like armoured vehicles, helicopters, and so forth), and more money directed towards social services, healthcare, and education -- the kinds of things that ultimately will reduce crime, and make police departments with ever-expanding budgets and enough ordnance to launch an invasion of a neighbouring country unnecessary. You can read more here:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/defund-the-police-1007254/

There is NO evidence that George Floyd resisted arrest. On the contrary, witnesses have asserted the contrary. Even if he had, he was clearly in no position to continue doing so once cuffed and prone on the ground. He posed no threat. This was murder, pure and simple.

Your final point seems to be more or less that American blacks should just kind of suck it up if they are being harassed by the police. That in itself is a repulsive and reprehensible suggestion, but it also ignores the fact that, way too often, blacks arrested by the police don't get the opportunity to "sort it all out" in a nice civilized way at the police station.

George Floyd, and many, many other black men never made it that far.

That's entirely not true, and you have only to go on twitter and watch all the videos and read the statements to grasp this.

It means NO ARMED POLICE. It means funding "civil services" in vague ways and not just removing excessive militarization from police, it means NO ARMED POLICE. Rolling Stone whitewashes this. There are plenty of reform groups all over with many good ideas for how to reform people -- taking all the funding away from armed, uniformed police maintaining law and order is not a solution, it's a recipe for disaster and that is indeed what they are calling for.

[Prokofy Neva]

19 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

The bog box stores have destroyed all the local business everywhere they have moved. There is a reason you can buy everything at Walmart.

We have some box stores in NYC but mainly a lot of smaller stores because they simply can't fit here or get permits here.

In some cases Ace Hardware drives out little independent hardwares; in some cases Ace fails as people won't go away from the independents. It's a mixed bag and your blanket statements as usual doesn't apply to reality. Most of those harmed are small businesses, many minority owned.