Are You Showing Support for Black Lives Matter in Second Life?

[Innula Zenovka]

17 minutes ago, H8 said:

That's just being horrible "law enforcers". But you can't prove it was done because they were racists. Maybe there were, maybe there were not. Like I said, plenty of people have been killed by the police, from all ethnicities.  What if the cops were black and he was white?  I think we both know this wouldn't have been blown out of proportions. 

What happened was horrible, but don't make it racial issue. This is used by certain groups to destabilize USA.

 

 

[Luna Bliss]

38 minutes ago, H8 said:

That's just being horrible "law enforcers". But you can't prove it was done because they were racists. Maybe there were, maybe there were not. Like I said, plenty of people have been killed by the police, from all ethnicities.  

What happened was horrible, but don't make it racial issue. 

 

True, you can't prove that had George been white the same scenario would not have unfolded. But we have a centuries-old pattern of racial injustice in the criminal justice system, and so it's highly likely this was another example of prejudice against Blacks.  I'll post this again to demonstrate the facts:

The criminal justice system is terribly biased against Blacks, leading to more wrongful convictions and harsher sentences compared to Whites. Statistics in outcomes prove this, along with tests conducted in the Social Sciences.  Biased attitudes develop through socialization, and the stereotypes held are frequently not even conscious, but tests can demonstrate the bias. These unconscious attitudes affects how law enforcement treats Blacks in the criminal justice system and on the streets.

I was pretty shocked in college when I studied tests and learned about the lack of objectivity in perception people hold when evaluating Blacks vs Whites. Extensive experiments in the Social Sciences have been set up to allow participants to express their feelings regarding various imaginary scenarios depicted by test facilitators. They demonstrate that Blacks are more often viewed as guilty of a crime, and they are assigned greater punishment for a crime when compared to white counterparts. This held true (though to a lesser extent) even among test subjects who were actually trained in objectivity (scientists, judges).
In tests with young children even the babies reject the darker-skinned doll more often.   And saddest of all, even the darker-skinned children reject the darker-skinned doll more often.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Lyssa Greymoon]

4 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

That's the real problem, it works both ways. Everyone gets so hung up on needing enemies that they can't recognize when people are agreeing with them.

If someone insists on repeating racist rhetoric, there is one conclusion that is not unreasonable.

[Luna Bliss]

9 hours ago, Tarina Sewell said:

I agree that yes, there has been a tainted history in America but slavery has been abolished for years, and segregation was demolished in the 60s and EVERYONE  has the opportunity to pull them selves up from where they came from and better themselves. 

Everyone always has the opportunity to pull themselves up, but for some people it is much more difficult due to the trauma of slavery that has affected subsequent generations.  Trauma causes lasting damage, and reduces the ability to both cope with life and be an effective parent.  Inadequate parenting is a curse. Not saying it can't be overcome to a degree, but it's so difficult that few who undergo severe trauma are able to lead happy and productive lives.

There are lots of studies/articles online regarding the effects of trauma if you want to understand it better.

[Luna Bliss]

9 hours ago, Dano Seale said:

I believe there were underlying reasons and possible "bad blood" between the cop and poor George, maybe to do with when they were bouncer's together or something? A bit of previous "Don't ever make the mistake of me having to arrest you George ok!" possibly? Dunno, but at the end of the day, if you force the cops to put you on the ground by reacting badly/violently to arrest, then sh*t's gonna happen and it's usually bad!
If you're guilty? The cops got you, it's a bad day, deal with it! If you're innocent? The cops don't believe you, it's a bad day, now you have to get a cab home, deal with it!

I can't...this is just too disgusting to comment on.

[Paul Hexem]

1 hour ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

If someone insists on repeating racist rhetoric, there is one conclusion that is not unreasonable.

And when people hear racist rhetoric where there is none, you have another problem entirely.

[Paul Hexem]

1 hour ago, H8 said:

That's just being horrible "law enforcers". But you can't prove it was done because they were racists. Maybe there were, maybe there were not. Like I said, plenty of people have been killed by the police, from all ethnicities.  What if the cops were black and he was white?  I think we both know this wouldn't have been blown out of proportions. 

What happened was horrible, but don't make it racial issue. This is used by certain groups to destabilize USA.

I'm with you up until the last sentence.

https://www.ibtimes.com/what-happens-when-police-turn-their-body-cameras-2050118
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/supreme-court-may-consider-making-it-easier-to-sue-police-for-misconduct/ar-BB155ILV

[Gatogateau]

8 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Would it "work"? That depends on how you define success, perhaps. For many blacks, the current system, which represents a broken social contract between the police and a segment of the population they are supposed to protect, but are actually threatening, isn't much worth preserving.

I wasn't suggesting (nor did I state, quite the contrary) that "the current system" should remain as is, because obviously it is broken, and it is broken in many places, with blacks and others in various ways. It is also a bit dangerous, and incorrect, to talk about "a system" because that was part of my other comment (not quoted), that because of our system of state's rights vs fed there are thousands of police stations and systems. There is not one unifying mass we're talking about, which is part of the problem. Change costs money. I don't see how it does not. Not just indiscriminate funds thrown willy nilly, but funds (as I said) for education, training, and god knows what else.

Sadly, money is not something in infinite supply. Give to one, something else may not get. Entire city, county, and state budgets encompassing everything need to be examined, and I would hope reconfigured, because saying that police may need their current funds in order to enact changes within their departments is NOT the same thing as saying do not fund other, social problems! I've been saying off and on over, what, 38 pages now?, that these problems are just that, problems, plural. And those problems affect blacks, but also other people of color, also whites, across all age and ethnicities, many financial classes (pretty much will grant you that these things do not affect the 1%... ) ...  So it is a question of where you get the most bang for your buck. And that inelegant statement is pretty much the TL:DR version of My Point.™

I'll check out the article link.

[Gatogateau]

9 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

My concern is over tactics that end up working against the strategic goals. Pissing off Trump and his base could very well put him back in office for another four years.

 

9 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

It wasn't his base that got him elected last time. Just like most elections, it is really the people that are closer to the middle, leaning slightly left and slightly right (the swing voters, they are often called), that got him the win.  That is the group that don't really LOVE him, but 4 years ago, for probably a wide variety of reasons, decided he was a slightly better choice.  Currently though, the ramblings on some of the more centralist forums are showing a lot more of those folks are pissed at him right now.  If enough of them get pissed enough and for long enough, they'll swing the other direction.

I doubt there are a lot of people (in significant voting numbers) who will either know or remember the street name change and painting come election time. 

Trump's actual base isn't moving. Jesus himself could run against Trump and they'd vote Trump. (For a lot of reasons  ) There is no talking to them, no sound bite, no fact, no nuthin that will deter them. So it doesn't matter if they are pissed off or not; they are just there.

Again, it bears noting that Trump didn't win the popular vote. (Yay system.) Hopefully many of those "swing" voters have seen the light. I don't know what the numbers were that did it, but some people, peeved off that Clinton and not Sanders got the nomination voted for anyone not Clinton, and so they voted for Trump. There were articles about it at the time. I hope they realize how just really stupid they were, as Trump was never a possible alternative for Clinton! There were also, primarily young people, who voted for Trump because they thought it would be funny. So hopefully we've gotten that out of our collective systems and people will be moved to come out in force and say, "Oh god no, anything is better than this."

[Gatogateau]

3 hours ago, H8 said:

https://community.secondlife.com/blogs/entry/4762-social-injustice-has-no-place-in-the-physical-or-virtual-world/

Pure cringe. And possibly a hypocrisy because I read LL is sued by ex-employee for discrimination at work. (Kavyanjali Pearlman, you can look it up)

How on earth anyone can possibly know the guy was killed because he was black? Police brutality is against everyone. Not the first one ever killed by police, neither black or white. But hey, lets protest against police brutality against black ?! Why not just in general. And without breaking windows?

And while we are at it, already 2 black cops were killed...sure thing black lives matter. Not to mention the daily black-on-black violence.

Hope the next building with broken windows is LL's, then maybe they will reconsider their dumb blog posts. I'm not donating to bail out people who violate other people's property. Oh, sorry.. I mean...peacefully protest! Ask George Soros to fund them with another 500 million dollars.

Absolute clownfiesta.

You didn't happen to cash government cheques from when you served in the USA's military did you?

You know those "dog whistles" y'all keep talking about in this thread? "Soros"... enough said.

[Gatogateau]

7 hours ago, Evah Baxton said:

Perhaps some people think that when Jim Crow ended and the Civil Rights Act started all the racist segregationists had a change of heart and taught their children that racism was wrong. I don't think it worked that way. Racism didn't end. It became more elusive.

I feel like a corner is about to be turned this time.

Yeah. That. What I emphasized. One "positive" thing that has come out of the hate fest that is Trump's America is that all the pus has come to the surface. It has always been there, some even visible, but now people have been emboldened to show their true, awful natures and wilful ignorance. They are sanctioned to behave badly by the very top of the crap heap.

Nothing has changed except the visibility. Those people have always been around. It was just a lot of them were smart enough not to spout their hate in the light, maybe even to themselves. Trump was the symptom of "Trumpism" not the root cause.

It IS now visible (again). The infection is there for all to see. So, maybe you are right, " corner is about to be turned this time." I hope you are.

[Gatogateau]

Just an observation, but I just got through reading several pages of this thread, and I've been reading it a lot (because as frustrating as it may be at times there is information and a discussion that I find useful). Have y'all noticed there's a preponderance of people not from the USA commenting? That's informative, we certainly can learn from how others do things and how others see us, so I hope y'all keep posting. It just makes me wonder why.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

This was sent me by @Skell Dagger (thanks Skell!). I'd imagine, as it's quite old and (I think) much shared, many of you will have seen it. It's a both humorous and completely serious way to conceptualize privilege -- in this case, straight white male privilege.

https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/

(Be it noted that I post this not as an "attack" on men, straights, or white people -- no one can be "blamed" for being any of those things, and you couldn't do anything about it in any case. It is merely a neat rhetorical way to articulate a concept that represents a truth about society and culture.

Please note also that the operations of intersectionality mean that not all straight white males are equally privileged, etc., etc. There are many -- millions, in fact -- of straight white males who are, in practice, and for other reasons, less privileged than me, a straight white woman. That's why the concept of "difficulty settings" is useful: it doesn't predict actual success, just the challenges posed by society that one faces. These cultural categories are merely important pieces in a much larger and more complicated puzzle.)

[Lyssa Greymoon]

1 hour ago, Paul Hexem said:

And when people hear racist rhetoric where there is none, you have another problem entirely.

 

[Luna Bliss]

49 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This was sent me by @Skell Dagger (thanks Skell!). I'd imagine, as it's quite old and (I think) much shared, many of you will have seen it. It's a both humorous and completely serious way to conceptualize privilege -- in this case, straight white male privilege.

https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/

Scylla I love this game analogy Skell has provided, with its attempt to convince those who have it easier in society to comprehend what "privilege" means.
However, I just don't think it will help most who are more concrete in nature. They can't comprehend why it would be more difficult to play the game if they're not in the "straight, white, male" category in RL which gives them a leg up from the get-go, even when understanding the artificial disadvantages given in game to other categories. They'd have to be willing to study reams of tests, read volumes of books, and process it all with an ability to reflect in order to get it. Due to such lack of education and deficiency in the skill of introspection (and empathy) many are simply not aware of the realities of our world. Since they don't experience it or see it 'out there' they can't believe it exists.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Extrude Ragu]

18 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

If someone tells me he supports "Save the Whale" I've never thought that must mean he doesn't care about other endangered species.

I think the issue most people have with a lot of social justice movements in recent history, is the feeling that they try to 'fix' social injustice, by creating another. Whether that's by excluding people for being a 'majority' or by razing cities to the ground and leaving people homeless or jobless and creating an unsafe environment in general.

People like me advocate for a very different ideology, in which we simply remove identity politics from the equation. We don't care what your race is, what your faith is, whether you identify as a unicorn, what your social status is, how much wealth you have accrued. All we care about is your actions as an individual and never as some collective. Lady Justice wears a Blindfold for a good reason.

Most creators on SL know just how much effort and time it takes to build something worthwhile, and how easy it is to destroy what they've made. It can happen in an instant.

There are good people and bad people in all groups. Black people will willingly destroy the lives of other black people, and white people will destroy the lives of other white people. It's not racism, some people are just assholes and no amount of identity politics will fix that. You simply need to hold each individual to account for their own actions.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Extrude Ragu
correction

[Selene Gregoire]

The more you try to take my Lakota identity away from me, the more I will fight to keep my identity. You go on and be just another number in the system if you want. I will remain human and Lakota.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Selene Gregoire

[Innula Zenovka]

2 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

And when people hear racist rhetoric where there is none, you have another problem entirely.

I haven't followed the discussion sufficiently closely to know what's being discussed here, but when someone takes exception to something I've said or done and tells me I'm being racist or sexist or homophobic or whatever, my reaction, unless I think they're deliberately misunderstanding me, is to take what they say seriously, look at what they object to, and ask myself myself what exactly I was trying to say, and how I have said it differently, in a way that would not have merited this criticism.

If I can see what the problem is, I'll apologise and try to rephrase and reformulate my point (unless I wish to withdraw it altogether) or, if I still can't see the problem, I'll politely explain why I think they've mistaken what I was saying, and see what their reponse is.

I think it's always a criticism worth taking seriously, unless it's obviously bogus.

 

[Luna Bliss]

13 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

no amount of identity politics will fix that

Oppressed groups have a right to defend themselves, to voice their issues.  This is NOT identity politics. This term is a pejorative one fashioned by the 'right' to discredit those who want society to address their concerns.  YOU many not be someone who adheres to far-right politics, but you are abusing by proxy, albeit unaware of your role.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Extrude Ragu]

I think that you are intentionally quoting me out of context so that you can be offended by it.

I said that in the context that some people are just assholes and I believe that to be the truth.

If you think otherwise, why don't you explain to me this video of black people looting and stealing from a black mans business in their own community during LA Riots.

[Dano Seale]

10 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

There is NO evidence that George Floyd resisted arrest. On the contrary, witnesses have asserted the contrary. Even if he had, he was clearly in no position to continue doing so once cuffed and prone on the ground. He posed no threat. This was murder, pure and simple.

Agreed! And if that cop got the death penalty for it I wouldn't have a problem  with it! Obviously he won't, but I believe everyone and their dog will wash their hands on him, there is NO possible defence to be made for what he did. The other 3?....I think they'll walk, maybe a "slap on the wrist", time will tell.
Except for 30 sec's on the BBC's website, I've never seen the video. Don't have to really as those 30 seconds showed enough to convict that cop several times over! Neither have I delved deep into many articles about it, but the first one I read (also on BBC) said that Floyd was drunk or high, all was going well until they tired to get him into the police car....and couldn't!
George looked like a very big guy, the kind of guy who if he didn't want to go somewhere, then it'd be like trying to push Gato's "14 ton rock"!  I'm guessing just standing there and the cops not being able to get him to move counts as "resisting arrest"? Anyway, from all the video's on youtube I've seen, that's the point US cops generally put people on the ground.
I also took it that the cop kneeling on him for 8½ min's while the other 3 just stood around, was because they were waiting for a "meat wagon" I believe they call it? 
Anyway, I've seen other video's of this kind of arrest by multiple cops and many times they've knelt on legs, back and yes...neck, to immobilize the suspect until they get them cuffed....then they stand up!
This cop has NO...POSSIBLE....DEFENCE! 

See this bit of my post.... "I believe there were underlying reasons and possible "bad blood" between the cop and poor George, maybe to do with when they were bouncer's together or something? A bit of previous "Don't ever make the mistake of me having to arrest you George ok!" possibly?" .... This is just a theory of mine I have due to the sheer brutality this one cop handed out. 
While reading through my post after finishing, I realised I'd forgotten to mention this part, wrote it and stuck it in. Unfortunately, being overtired, I chose a spot where it would be sandwiched between something else I'd said and would cause conflict! 

"Your final point seems to be more or less that American blacks should just kind of suck it up if they are being harassed by the police. That in itself is a repulsive and reprehensible suggestion, but it also ignores the fact that, way too often, blacks arrested by the police don't get the opportunity to "sort it all out" in a nice civilized way at the police station.George Floyd, and many, many other black men never made it that far." ...(wouldn't let me quote that bit for some reason!)

It IS a "repulsive and reprehensible" suggestion, but it's something I feel everyone, no matter what colour, race or creed they may be, HAS to conform to to even get the ball rolling for real change to come about between police and the public! Below the surface, the police will never change if the public keep refusing to join in!
In the UK and Europe, 9 times out of ten blacks arrested are "released without charge", or go to court and get dealt with one way or the other. Sure, we have our own "incidents" of "police brutality" and the odd riot, but in general the majority are "done by the book"...and I can never see it changing because men are men (Not ignoring the women here ..it's just a known expression.), they're genetically conditioned for "tribalism" and when you put two different factions together, especially if one of them is in "authority", and they disagree...sparks are always going to fly! It's human nature unfortunately, and it's THAT that both sides need to "change"!

Probably over explaining again but fk it....that's how I roll! 
 

 

[Innula Zenovka]

29 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I think the issue most people have with a lot of social justice movements in recent history, is the feeling that they try to 'fix' social injustice, by creating another. Whether that's by excluding people for being a 'majority' or by razing cities to the ground and leaving people homeless or jobless and creating an unsafe environment in general.

People like me advocate for a very different ideology, in which we simply remove identity politics from the equation. We don't care what your race is, what your faith is, whether you identify as a unicorn, what your social status is, how much wealth you have accrued. All we care about is your actions as an individual and never as some collective. Lady Justice wears a Blindfold for a good reason.

Most creators on SL know just how much effort and time it takes to build something worthwhile, and how easy it is to destroy what they've made. It can happen in an instant.

There are good people and bad people in all groups. Black people will willingly destroy the lives of other black people, and white people will destroy the lives of other white people. It's not racism, some people are just assholes and no amount of identity politics will fix that. You simply need to hold each individual to account for their own actions.

But meanwhile you live in a society which does very much care about people's race, wealth, social status, sexuality, religion, and so on, and it is a society in which these attributes (actual or perceived) can make an enormous difference to almost every aspect of your life, including -- as we have just seen so graphically and horrifyingly captured on video, in what's certainly the first snuff movie I've ever seen -- whether you are likely to survive an encounter with the police.

As I understand it, people are protesting against a racist social structure that allows this kind of abuse to happen, just as they did in the Civil Rights struggle in the US and against Apartheid in South Africa.    It's not about people's identities, but about what other people do them because of their perceived identity.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Innula Zenovka

[Dano Seale]

3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I can't...this is just too disgusting to comment on

That's a blessing then. I thank God for small mercies!

[Ashlyn Voir]

No one said all lives didn’t matter and I’m getting sick and tired of people trying to use that straw man as a means of ignoring the racist history this country and the world has towards black AMERICAN people for CENTURIES. This goes beyond just America. Black people have been treated poorly by every other race including non-black POCs for a long time. And, every time us as black Americans wants to start a movement, everyone feels the need to join in and make it about themselves and it’s this BS is why I only rather deal with my own people because it’s clear to me this BS will NEVER STOP. Ever.

 

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Dano Seale said:

3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I can't...this is just too disgusting to comment on

That's a blessing then. I thank God for small mercies!

lol

Dano, after watching that snuff film where George is murdered, and you then attempt to "add to the discussion" via assigning possible blame to him?  Really, you can't comprehend how disgusting that is?