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Posted (edited)

Trump says the economy will cure the "very sad problem of police killing blacks".    Sigh*

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-says-the-economy-will-cure-the-very-sad-problem-of-police-killing-blacks-180735136.html

To change systemic racism you have to change people's hearts instead of treating symptoms. He has no heart though, he's just an empty narcissistic shell.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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Not as such, no. We don't really have that kind of thing here as, well, our law enforcement seldom gun down people - and whilst I obviously do not condone of it, I'm hesitant to give my 'official' (i.

Alrighty, now that I've gone ahead and cleared out some not so pleasant posts from this thread I wanted to drop a quick note here. As many of you have seen me say several times before, delving in

Thank you for this.   Black woman here.  Of A Certain Age.  I have my BLM shirt.   For whatever that means. (freewheeling it here, went from wanting to say something to not wanting to say anythi

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38 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I got all excited about Mayor Bowser's street painting and name change, but then read this...

211787404_ScreenShot2020-06-05at7_48_03PM.thumb.png.91521e64c01438ed1fd258c4e3457338.png

So now I'm back to being uncertain about it all.

I came *this* close to posting the same thing, nearly verbatim. It was like "suck on that, Trump!" and then read the DC's BLM's response and I'm back to scratching my head. I'm not versed in DC politics, so I have no idea. Even if the renaming AND painting of the street in front of the White House *is* concession to white liberals, can't it count for something? Isn't any victory a victory? And it isn't like change has to stop at this. But, but ... what do I know? I don't know how much the local chapters of BLM vary, I don't know... a lot.

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32 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

I came *this* close to posting the same thing, nearly verbatim. It was like "suck on that, Trump!" and then read the DC's BLM's response and I'm back to scratching my head. I'm not versed in DC politics, so I have no idea. Even if the renaming AND painting of the street in front of the White House *is* concession to white liberals, can't it count for something? Isn't any victory a victory? And it isn't like change has to stop at this. But, but ... what do I know? I don't know how much the local chapters of BLM vary, I don't know... a lot.

Even if her only reason for doing it was to piss off Trump, I’m okay with it.

A lot has changed in the last week. A lot of people have changed. I think it’s okay to be suspicious of those who haven’t been quite so vocal before now, but I think it’d be hard for anyone to watch the George Floyd video and not come away changed somehow. Yeah, that’s the Pollyanna in me, but the goal of everything happening right now is change, and things can’t change deeper than surface level without people changing as well.

The CEO of my organization comes from a very well-to-do white, conservative, Catholic family. Since he took over a couple years ago, he’s meant well but has been quite tone deaf in dealing with our very diverse clients and staff. We have always been advised to not post anything even slightly controversial on social media and just generally behave ourselves so and not to do anything that could possibly bring us bad PR.

Something snapped in him after watching the video. He’s been changing things all week. Today we even received an email from him with bullet point instructions for protecting ourselves when protesting - NOT protecting the organization, protecting us. Stay hydrated, have a mask, memorize a couple important phone numbers in case of lost or dead phones, and memorize a lawyer’s number in case of arrest. A couple weeks ago, an arrest would get us fired.

Seeing George Floyd die changed him, so I’m hesitant to condemn anyone who previously turned a blind eye to injustice and now suddenly seems woke - they may well be, and we need people to change.

Maybe DC’s mayor has, too.

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Posted (edited)

 There is a pandemic in the world, more so in the USA. We have the highest amount of cases in the world of covid-19. I can not open the water park at my resort where I work because of CDC guidelines, people lost their jobs, businesses caved, people are loosing their homes. This company I work for is loosing money, I am loosing hours and money. I am not sure how I will pay my bills until we open up completely. and now... we will have to start over again.  There is no logical outcome but that more people will die. PEOPLE OF ALL COLORS HAVE DIED FROM IT. 

 We are shut down to help prevent the spread of this modern day plague but apparently it is ok to mass gather in the street in protests and share a megaphone among hundreds of people,  while rouge rioters are breaking into high end stores and stealing.

 Floyd's killer is in jail and so are his  co-killers. Justice is being served. There is a underlying history that is deeper than we are told.  You are being manipulated to incite a civil war and people are to stupid to see it.  All the killers of thee young men are in jail, justice is being served.  What more do you want? A public lynching?

I am called a privileged white racist when I say all lives matter. When I say cops are being killed everyday, black and white, by the criminals. Everyday they go to work they never know if that is the call that ends their life. I am called  racist white privileged because I say not all cops are bad.

  I am attacked on twitter because I told a young black woman after she complained that she learned early all white people hated her..   That I did not hate her.... her reply "Your white privileged ass will never understand and I do not need anymore white friends.."

I agree that yes, there has been a tainted history in America but slavery has been abolished for years, and segregation was demolished in the 60s and EVERYONE  has the opportunity to pull them selves up from where they came from and better themselves. 

I also know that life is about choices and all it takes is one bad choice, on either side, and your life will be changed forever.  Teaching your children to respect authority will go a long way in their happiness for a life. ANY COLOR. There is a fundamental lack of respect and general ignorance that they are owed something by some youth today. (all races)

There is no listening, there is only blaming. There is no compassion for one another because everyone is blaming everyone else.  (I have seen rare exceptions)  But most of the news is hate filled. So much so I do not even watch tv anymore.

So to answer the question, which I have been avoiding but wish to speak out about.. No, I will not support black lives matter in SL. 

I support all people NO MATTER COLOR and I support police reform. Yes, there is a problem and it will not be easy to solve.

 Marching in the street is not going to change anything right now. Except get everyone sick and probably will kill a few people (or hundred thousand). Then where is their justice the people these protesters/rioters/looters/onlookers/mediapersonel bring covid-19 back to? It is a fact that the virus is spreading in the black population more so than any other.

 

This is an amazing virus, it stops and will not  spread so the protesters can gather in masses.

 

.  peace out.

 

"Until a few weeks ago, racial data for COVID-19 was sparse. It's still incomplete, but now 48 states plus Washington D.C., report at least some data; in total, race or ethnicity is known for around half of all cases and 90% of deaths. And though gaps remain, the pattern is clear: Communities of color are being hit disproportionately hard by COVID-19."

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/30/865413079/what-do-coronavirus-racial-disparities-look-like-state-by-state

 

 

 

Edited by Tarina Sewell
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"Black lives matter means defund the police"?....see, it's this kind of statement that sends me straight back to sitting on the fence again! How can that be good for anyone? Shouldn't it be more about changing police arrest and patrolling proceedures? I mean, you have the "gun" problem there that's never going to change I know, but the cops looking for a black "suspect" wearing jeans and a red t-shirt and white baseball cap, shouldn't be jumping out, guns drawn, on a black guy wearing board shorts, a white t-shirt and a blue baseball cap! A stolen car shouldn't have 20+ police cars all chasing it, ramming it off the road and then all jumping out and demolishing it with bullets! I've also watched videos of chases where the car thief stops and gets out hands wide apart to surrender. One cop should walk up and cuff him but no, 8 cops rush him and throw him to the ground then all pile ontop of him! Other cops are literally fighting to see a spare bit of flesh they can leap on!  
It's those kind of "proceedures" that can and MUST be changed. Defunding the police may mean only 2 cars are available to chase a stolen car, but then someone who needs the police urgently may die because the police can't afford to run more than 2 vehicles!

To be honest, no matter how much protesting and rioting happens, nothing much will change and I don't really understand what everyone is expecting to? Cops will be banned from kneeling on anybody's neck? Maybe, but I don't see anything else changing unless people themselve's change, and that ain't gonna happen!
On paper, it all looks so simple - cops stop harrassing people for no legitimate or "petty" reasons, and people being arrested, whether guilty or not, stop fighting it. Fighting arrest just means the cops are going to put you on the ground...one way or the other, they don't really have a choice. It doesn't matter if it's wrong or "harrassment", take the cuff's, get in the car and sort it out at the station! However, Americans have a hard time accepting things like that because "my freedom! My constitution!, my rights!..I didn't do nothing!" mentallity, none of which is going to help if you're dead!
I believe there were underlying reasons and possible "bad blood" between the cop and poor George, maybe to do with when they were bouncer's together or something? A bit of previous "Don't ever make the mistake of me having to arrest you George ok!" possibly? Dunno, but at the end of the day, if you force the cops to put you on the ground by reacting badly/violently to arrest, then sh*t's gonna happen and it's usually bad!
If you're guilty? The cops got you, it's a bad day, deal with it! If you're innocent? The cops don't believe you, it's a bad day, now you have to get a cab home, deal with it!

Ain't gonna happen though is it?

Ugh! That was longer than expected when I started it,lol. 04.40am...gone to bed!

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5 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

JFC.

I’m so sick of being embarrassed by the remarkably idiotic things white people say. 

I'm trying very hard to be patient and understanding. Really, I am.

But it's exhausting. And depressing.

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58 minutes ago, Dano Seale said:

"Black lives matter means defund the police"?....see, it's this kind of statement that sends me straight back to sitting on the fence again! How can that be good for anyone? Shouldn't it be more about changing police arrest and patrolling proceedures? I mean, you have the "gun" problem there that's never going to change I know, but the cops looking for a black "suspect" wearing jeans and a red t-shirt and white baseball cap, shouldn't be jumping out, guns drawn, on a black guy wearing board shorts, a white t-shirt and a blue baseball cap! A stolen car shouldn't have 20+ police cars all chasing it, ramming it off the road and then all jumping out and demolishing it with bullets! I've also watched videos of chases where the car thief stops and gets out hands wide apart to surrender. One cop should walk up and cuff him but no, 8 cops rush him and throw him to the ground then all pile ontop of him! Other cops are literally fighting to see a spare bit of flesh they can leap on!  
It's those kind of "proceedures" that can and MUST be changed. Defunding the police may mean only 2 cars are available to chase a stolen car, but then someone who needs the police urgently may die because the police can't afford to run more than 2 vehicles!

To be honest, no matter how much protesting and rioting happens, nothing much will change and I don't really understand what everyone is expecting to? Cops will be banned from kneeling on anybody's neck? Maybe, but I don't see anything else changing unless people themselve's change, and that ain't gonna happen!
On paper, it all looks so simple - cops stop harrassing people for no legitimate or "petty" reasons, and people being arrested, whether guilty or not, stop fighting it. Fighting arrest just means the cops are going to put you on the ground...one way or the other, they don't really have a choice. It doesn't matter if it's wrong or "harrassment", take the cuff's, get in the car and sort it out at the station! However, Americans have a hard time accepting things like that because "my freedom! My constitution!, my rights!..I didn't do nothing!" mentallity, none of which is going to help if you're dead!
I believe there were underlying reasons and possible "bad blood" between the cop and poor George, maybe to do with when they were bouncer's together or something? A bit of previous "Don't ever make the mistake of me having to arrest you George ok!" possibly? Dunno, but at the end of the day, if you force the cops to put you on the ground by reacting badly/violently to arrest, then sh*t's gonna happen and it's usually bad!
If you're guilty? The cops got you, it's a bad day, deal with it! If you're innocent? The cops don't believe you, it's a bad day, now you have to get a cab home, deal with it!

Ain't gonna happen though is it?

Ugh! That was longer than expected when I started it,lol. 04.40am...gone to bed!

Dano, a few things.

"Defunding the police" essentially means making new priorities for civic services. It means, in practice, fewer expensive "toys" for police departments (you know, the military hardware, like armoured vehicles, helicopters, and so forth), and more money directed towards social services, healthcare, and education -- the kinds of things that ultimately will reduce crime, and make police departments with ever-expanding budgets and enough ordnance to launch an invasion of a neighbouring country unnecessary. You can read more here:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/defund-the-police-1007254/

There is NO evidence that George Floyd resisted arrest. On the contrary, witnesses have asserted the contrary. Even if he had, he was clearly in no position to continue doing so once cuffed and prone on the ground. He posed no threat. This was murder, pure and simple.

Your final point seems to be more or less that American blacks should just kind of suck it up if they are being harassed by the police. That in itself is a repulsive and reprehensible suggestion, but it also ignores the fact that, way too often, blacks arrested by the police don't get the opportunity to "sort it all out" in a nice civilized way at the police station.

George Floyd, and many, many other black men never made it that far.

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12 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm trying very hard to be patient and understanding. Really, I am.

But it's exhausting. And depressing.

*bites tongue again... and again... and again...*

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4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Dano, a few things.

"Defunding the police" essentially means making new priorities for civic services. It means, in practice, fewer expensive "toys" for police departments (you know, the military hardware, like armoured vehicles, helicopters, and so forth), and more money directed towards social services, healthcare, and education -- the kinds of things that ultimately will reduce crime, and make police departments with ever-expanding budgets and enough ordnance to launch an invasion of a neighbouring country unnecessary. You can read more here:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/defund-the-police-1007254/

There is NO evidence that George Floyd resisted arrest. On the contrary, witnesses have asserted the contrary. Even if he had, he was clearly in no position to continue doing so once cuffed and prone on the ground. He posed no threat. This was murder, pure and simple.

Your final point seems to be more or less that American blacks should just kind of suck it up if they are being harassed by the police. That in itself is a repulsive and reprehensible suggestion, but it also ignores the fact that, way too often, blacks arrested by the police don't get the opportunity to "sort it all out" in a nice civilized way at the police station.

George Floyd, and many, many other black men never made it that far.

and don't forget about Breonna Taylor. I mean, your focus is on black men 

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15 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm trying very hard to be patient and understanding. Really, I am.

But it's exhausting. And depressing.

Why? I just wrote over on the peeves thread about suffering fools gladly. I don't. Never have, and have never figured out why one should. I'm serious with the "why." Why do it to the point where your blood pressure explodes your eyeballs onto the monitor? 

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5 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said:

and don't forget about Breonna Taylor. I mean, your focus is on black men 

Breonna Taylor (whose birthday it would have been -- should have been -- today) was killed in rather different circumstances.

Tarina, you've known me a long while. Do you think I'm the sort of person likely to neglect violence against women?

What exactly is your point?

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5 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

Why? I just wrote over on the peeves thread about suffering fools gladly. I don't. Never have, and have never figured out why one should. I'm serious with the "why." Why do it to the point where your blood pressure explodes your eyeballs onto the monitor? 

Because I have to believe that facts and logic matter, that education and information can make a difference, that connecting and communicating is better than not, and that people can change their minds about things when treated as though they are capable of change.

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1 hour ago, Dano Seale said:

"Black lives matter means defund the police"?....see, it's this kind of statement that sends me straight back to sitting on the fence again! How can that be good for anyone? Shouldn't it be more about changing police arrest and patrolling proceedures? I mean, you have the "gun" problem there that's never going to change I know, but the cops looking for a black "suspect" wearing jeans and a red t-shirt and white baseball cap, shouldn't be jumping out, guns drawn, on a black guy wearing board shorts, a white t-shirt and a blue baseball cap! A stolen car shouldn't have 20+ police cars all chasing it, ramming it off the road and then all jumping out and demolishing it with bullets! I've also watched videos of chases where the car thief stops and gets out hands wide apart to surrender. One cop should walk up and cuff him but no, 8 cops rush him and throw him to the ground then all pile ontop of him! Other cops are literally fighting to see a spare bit of flesh they can leap on!  
It's those kind of "proceedures" that can and MUST be changed. Defunding the police may mean only 2 cars are available to chase a stolen car, but then someone who needs the police urgently may die because the police can't afford to run more than 2 vehicles!

To be honest, no matter how much protesting and rioting happens, nothing much will change and I don't really understand what everyone is expecting to? Cops will be banned from kneeling on anybody's neck? Maybe, but I don't see anything else changing unless people themselve's change, and that ain't gonna happen!
On paper, it all looks so simple - cops stop harrassing people for no legitimate or "petty" reasons, and people being arrested, whether guilty or not, stop fighting it. Fighting arrest just means the cops are going to put you on the ground...one way or the other, they don't really have a choice. It doesn't matter if it's wrong or "harrassment", take the cuff's, get in the car and sort it out at the station! However, Americans have a hard time accepting things like that because "my freedom! My constitution!, my rights!..I didn't do nothing!" mentallity, none of which is going to help if you're dead!
I believe there were underlying reasons and possible "bad blood" between the cop and poor George, maybe to do with when they were bouncer's together or something? A bit of previous "Don't ever make the mistake of me having to arrest you George ok!" possibly? Dunno, but at the end of the day, if you force the cops to put you on the ground by reacting badly/violently to arrest, then sh*t's gonna happen and it's usually bad!
If you're guilty? The cops got you, it's a bad day, deal with it! If you're innocent? The cops don't believe you, it's a bad day, now you have to get a cab home, deal with it!

Ain't gonna happen though is it?

Ugh! That was longer than expected when I started it,lol. 04.40am...gone to bed!

That actual practice was actually not supposed to be used.  I understand many police departments are looking over policies because of not only his but also the young lady no one here is speaking out of that lost her life in a police raid.  

Defunding the police department will result in less police force will have a huge effect on the country... That is not the answer at all.  But there needs to be more funding in fact for screening and education. 

 

 

 

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Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Because I have to believe that facts and logic matter, that education and information can make a difference, that connecting and communicating is better than not, and that people can change their minds about things when treated as though they are capable of change.

I'm sorry, but the misanthrope in me read your sincere reply and laughed. I tried not to, honest. All I could think of was the saying, "And how's that working out for you?" Like you I believe that facts, logic, education and information plainly given *can* make a difference. People have to *want* to change, though, and not everyone is a customer, so to speak. There are a lot of people entrenched in their views, validly or not, and as much as I might want to move a 14-ton boulder out of my property by pushing on it, no matter how hard I try that boulder ain't budging. Of course I know you know all of that. As I was pretty sure I knew what your answer to my question would be (not verbatim, but the gist).  Carry on! Maybe that boulder will move... (said more wistfully & not snarky)

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3 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I got all excited about Mayor Bowser's street painting and name change, but then read this...

So now I'm back to being uncertain about it all.

When you create a space for people to have a voice, they won't always be grateful for gesture politics, even if well meaning. I can empathise with them, disagree with them, but I don't see any reason to start rethinking support.

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8 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said:

Defunding the police department will result in less police force will have a huge effect on the country... That is not the answer at all.  But there needs to be more funding in fact for screening and education. 

I kinda might agree a bit with Tarina on this one. I understand the rush to say "We'll defund the police department!" If nothing else, it is a good visual. IF the funds are used, diverted to training and education, then losing those funds would be detrimental. If the funds are used in other ways... maybe they should be removed. Systemic change is going to require money.

What I wish, and won't happen because of States' rights vs the Fed, is a national standard of behavior. There is too much variance from community to community, let alone state to state. A national standard of behavior for police (like a minimum outline), and some regulation of some of the laws. I'm straying way above my pay grade here. But hearing "defund the police" sounds like one of those simple answers to a complex issue. I don't think any of us would like the country without *any* police presence, not for long anyway. 

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15 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Breonna Taylor (whose birthday it would have been -- should have been -- today) was killed in rather different circumstances.

Tarina, you've known me a long while. Do you think I'm the sort of person likely to neglect violence against women?

What exactly is your point?

I am sorry, I must have missed your mentioning her, She died at the hand of police in a raid on her home, when they came in unannounced and her boyfriend was defending their home. This is an example of having to do some reforming and policy changes, it is very much like Floyd, except we did not see her die. If you mentioned her earlier then I am sorry I missed it. That was not meant to start anything, only get her name out there to.  I am sorry you became defensive it, I suppose the couple of forum users targeting me have got people thinking everything I say is meant to be taken in the worst possible way.

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Posted (edited)

A couple of stories from Wonkette, not exaclty the best place to go for an unbiased viewpoint, but they get the facts right and more often than not are worth listening to, because not only biased but right.

First story, illustrates the fear of Antifa and scare mongering about them in isolatated areas formented by the Far Right that results in a family on a camping trip being falsely accused harassed and treated to a reception reminiscent of a horror movie. It would be funny if it wasn't just so tragic in so many ways.

https://www.wonkette.com/idiots-with-guns-terrorize-multiracial-family-brag-about-driving-antifa-out-of-town

And then a piece reminding about the close relationship between the police and "proud boys" that have been causing so much disruption. With video of a police Sergeant, claiming to be acting on instructions from above, warning them about their plans so they can avoid getting caught in the middle of their crackdown.

https://www.wonkette.com/police-officer-saves-his-favorite-special-proud-boys-from-getting-teargassed-like-the-commoners

Edited by Aethelwine
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4 hours ago, Gatogateau said:

And yeah, he could get another four years, and anyone who says otherwise is deluded.

Before COVID-19, I probably would have agreed that the chance was still fairly high.  Combine that with the current police crap going on, and I'm thinking his chances have dropped significantly.

But I guess it still isn't completely out of the possibility, though it would surprise me quite a bit more than 4 years ago did.

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4 hours ago, Dano Seale said:

all he should be concerned with is the fact that his law enforcement are murdering people of all races and colours at an astonishing rate!

Truth be told, they are not "his law enforcement".  That isn't the way the US works.  Each and every state is responsible for their own police policies, the police actions, and any consequences to those actions.  

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

You'll find that I mentioned Breonna Taylor in the OP of this thread.

As I said, my apologies.  That particular police policy just pisses me off.  I understand Floyd and that cop had a history and there is a whole conspiracy theory involved (or truth) that he was killed to be hushed.

Edited by Tarina Sewell
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