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Are You Showing Support for Black Lives Matter in Second Life?


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6 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

it does help to change behaviour

the police officer who killed George Floyd was charged with murder with an alternative charge of manslaughter.  There was no months long drawn out inquiry leading to charges not being drawn up

this is a marked change in official behaviour. These kinds of marked changes in official behaviour do actually solve the problem. The problem being that in many police forces, officers gain a sense of impunity when they are not charged, called to account, for their actions when those actions break the law

 

I suspect that has more to do with the rioting than actual policy change.

Which is another disappointing thing- rioting for George Floyd (which is a good thing), but not for Bounkham Phonesavanh. That was 19 month old infant in a crib. Police threw a grenade into the crib. Interesting point, that was the wrong house, too. Officer wasn't charged.

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Not as such, no. We don't really have that kind of thing here as, well, our law enforcement seldom gun down people - and whilst I obviously do not condone of it, I'm hesitant to give my 'official' (i.

Alrighty, now that I've gone ahead and cleared out some not so pleasant posts from this thread I wanted to drop a quick note here. As many of you have seen me say several times before, delving in

Thank you for this.   Black woman here.  Of A Certain Age.  I have my BLM shirt.   For whatever that means. (freewheeling it here, went from wanting to say something to not wanting to say anythi

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8 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

I suspect that has more to do with the rioting than actual policy change.

Which is another disappointing thing- rioting for George Floyd (which is a good thing), but not for Bounkham Phonesavanh. That was 19 month old infant in a crib. Police threw a grenade into the crib. Interesting point, that was the wrong house, too. Officer wasn't charged.

we can pick out different incidences and say what about this and what about that

i look at what the official responses are. Not the words, the actions

the Louisville police chief got fired by the mayor.  The police and military opened fire on some protesters because the police heard a gunshot

the police chief got fired because all the police officers on duty had turned off their body cameras. All of them. It is the police chief's responsibility to instruct their officers to ensure that their body cameras are turned on in this kinds of police operations. Every police officer doesn't turn off their body camera in these operations just because. Most officers don't trun off their cameras, unless instructed too

that the police chief got fired immediately is a sign that things are changing

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11 hours ago, monykony said:

i don't :3
because i don't care about people's color, i only care about how they are, if they're good people then i like them, if no i dislike them xD
who's a good person, simple, anyobdy who doesn't hate others and/or want to hurt others.
every time  somebody says "i hate white people because they're racist" i'm very sure i'm hearing a racist so like i said before, it's sad that Floyd died, specially because as far as i know he was a good guy, friendly and hardworker, but is worst the violence of some protestants who may kill more people by destroying their business, cars and stuff (and as far as i know they already kill one cop and one guy). 

Me and my husband are an interracial couple and we never paid attention to each other's color. We just celebrated our 40th wedding anniversary and we have seen many things in our lives. We known each other since childhood and we have been picked on a lot.

What saddens me is some believe racism don't exist and I have ran into some in world.

Edited by Kimmi Zehetbauer
Can't spell....
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16 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

What saddens me is some believe racism don't exist and I have ran into some in world.

i'm not saying racism does not exists but that racism can't be fight with racism, there are more ways 🙂  

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4 minutes ago, monykony said:

i'm not saying racism does not exists but that racism can't be fight with racism, there are more ways 🙂  

It helps to acknowledge its existence, though, and that's hard to do when one insists from the off that one "doesn't see colour" or whatever. The point is, others do and are using it for evil ends. Nobody should be so colour blind that they can't see THAT.

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13 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

What a series of extremely idiotic, selfish and far from rational conclusions, starting in pic 3.

And yet...

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8 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Yes, I thought about it but I wanted to make a black female avatar.  I can't find the skin company now...it's something like Nnovatine maybe.  It has mostly Black and Asian skins and/or all Black and Asian skins and starts with an N or a double N like this Nn.  I really wanted to do this but cannot find the skin store now.  

I think it is important to do it in a non-aggressive way such as not screaming in each other faces in chats or anything like that.  

I haven't seen a t-shirt yet.

A report from the Police Chief is out that the four men will be held accountable.  

 

 

Hello FairreLilette,

 

I do not know what your racial background is, but if you are not black I think that donning a Black skin would be inappropriate.

 

If you wish to support the movement in SL, I think it is much more effective to show yourself as your RL race or with your preffered SL presentation (furry etc.) for the following reasons:

1) For example, I am white. If my white avatar visually supports 'Black Lives Matter' it does the following:

  • People who support white supremacy will see that other White people will not cosign the ideology of White supremacy and will in fact support the Black Lives Matter movement, which makes them feel less entitled to promote anti-Blackness because they know that they will not be supported by other Whites.
  • People who do not empathise with the Black Lives Matter movement because of internalised racism will see me, as a white avatar, and subconsciously relate more because they can imagine being in my shoes more than in Black people's shoes because that is a shared experience White people have. I can therefore serve as a possibility model for how to express support of the Black Lives Matter movement for other Whites.
  • People who are on the fence about vocally supporting Black Lives Matter, but who do in fact empathise and support the movement to some extent, will at least think about engaging as well.
  • Friends will know about something I care about and will think about engaging as well.

2) If you present as furry/non-human it sends a message to other people who are part of your community in SL, or who respect your community, that you also support Black Lives Matter and because they relate to you as a non-human form in SL, they might also be more interested in how they might wish to engage with the Black Lives Matter movement.

 

Wearing clothing that says BLM, starting conversation about it would be good too, and I'm thinking of making a group we could join where the header above our username would be 'Black lives matter!' so that we do not even need to divert conversation in events about it, and can just have it as a matter of fact statement wherever we visit in SL. I will make a post when I made that group.

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37 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

What a series of extremely idiotic, selfish and far from rational conclusions, starting in pic 3.

Couldn’t agree more with you, Lillith. 
 

I wasn’t planning to respond in this thread, not that I think it’s a not important topic, but simply because I agree with some of you who said that as a white person it is often hard to imagine how it is to be someone else and how to support such person correctly without patronizing for example. 
but this picture made me angry because it shows a great misunderstanding what it really means that all lives, houses, cats, etc matter. Yes, I agree that there are people who understand “all ... matter” this way, but it is not what it means. It means we should be equal when it comes to the rights and privileges and laws BUT we should support these who are depreciated, neglected and need help, regardless of their skin color, roots, height, whatever. And it is not denying that racism exists, it is simply acknowledging that we are all humans and we should support each other. 
 

sorry for my clumsy English, I am still between my morning cups of coffee ️ 

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Saskia Rieko said:

It means we should be equal when it comes to the rights and privileges and laws BUT we should support these who are depreciated, neglected and need help, regardless of their skin color, roots, height, whatever.

That is precisely what the cartoon (which is not about the riots) is saying. 

It explicitly acknowledges that yes, all houses (lives) do matter. And it also explicitly acknowledges that no, this does not mean that just because a house (life) isn't on fire means that it has no problems that need to be addressed (dry rot). But the point is that black lives are the ones that are depreciated and neglected and need help the most right now, because they are ON FIRE. The dry rot is an issue, but it is not as pressing and immediate as the FIRE, which is KILLING SOMEONE RIGHT NOW. And it also explicitly acknowledges that should the other house catch fire, yes, it will be as deserving of immediate focus as the house that is on fire RIGHT NOW. But it's not.

The point, in other words, is not that we are saying Black Lives Matter because we think white lives inherently matter less. (Square 5 in the cartoon.) This is the total fallacy that the All Lives Matter counter-argument rests on. The point is that it's black lives that are, at a class level, under greater threat from authorities. Therefore, that is where we should be focusing. If we lived in a mainly black society, where white people were disproportionately disenfranchised and killed as a result, then yes, we could have a White Lives Matter campaign. But at a class level, that is not where we're at. We are not saying "Black Lives Matter" because they are black. We are saying "Black Lives Matter" because it is clear that at a systemic level, they are being treated as though they do not. 

The problem with "All Lives Matter" as a counter-point is not that it is morally or philosophically wrong at its most basic level (that's why they do it; so that people can make that exact fallacious argument, because of course nobody can argue that not all lives matter.). It's that it is a deflection and a dilution of the more pressing and immediate problem of black lives being under attack. That is the point of it. 

 

 

 

Edited by Amina Sopwith
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I am not showing support for black lives matter because I am not American.

I am British. The hands of my ancestors might not exactly be the cleanest, but we have walked an exceptionally different path to this moment, and the state of race relations in the UK is very different. And our greatest problem to overcome regarding racism has nothing to do with black people. We are far from perfect, for sure, but that doesn't mean we should just import outrage over from the colonies. Especially when we have our own burning houses that need putting out first.

So while I wholeheartedly agree that the BLM movement is both appropriate and necessary in the American context... that does not mean the rest of us have to jump in or face shame.

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I agree with you Amina. What I wanted to point out is that the cartoon mocks a little the good intentions behind “All houses / lives matter” and the way it is or can be misinterpreted can lead to actual approval of such approach. 

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1 minute ago, Saskia Rieko said:

I agree with you Amina. What I wanted to point out is that the cartoon mocks a little the good intentions behind “All houses / lives matter” and the way it is or can be misinterpreted can lead to actual approval of such approach. 

I suppose my feeling is that the people who are ultimately behind All Lives Matter (which is not to include everyone who has been drawn in by it) do not have good intentions. Or that a lot of well-intentioned people are falling for fallacious arguments.

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8 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

And our greatest problem to overcome regarding racism has nothing to do with black people.

What would you say it is? 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

What would you say it is? 

The societal tension between the white, culturally Christian/atheist population, and the sizeable south Asian predominantly Muslim population. That's our greatest challenge.

Not saying we don't have an issue with racism towards black people; we absolutely do. But as per your cartoon, we focus on the house burning down the fastest first.

Edited by AyelaNewLife
I did typo
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2 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

What would you say it is? 

I'd say the biggest problem regarding most social issues right now are the massive outrage mobs that use social injustice as an excuse to raze everything to the ground, loot endanger lives and destroy livelihoods of innocent people who have nothing to do with the incident. If there was one way to really ramp up racial hatred, I think that was a good way to go about doing it.

I sympathized with the protests until news of buildings being burnt to the ground started reaching me across the pond. Many of which apparently low income housing, small business etc. Now I think that they are just as bad themselves. It's unfortunate there is such a great lack of self awareness.

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18 minutes ago, Saskia Rieko said:

... the cartoon mocks a little the good intentions behind “All houses / lives matter”... 

I don't see any good intentions at all by that characters with the hose. It's ill-spirited from the very start, followed by a bunch of empty excuses, one worse than the other, why only their own belongings matter, even when there's merely a very little risk of danger, if any at all.

1 hour ago, Amina Sopwith said:

And yet...

Yet what? Do you insist that everyone should dwell on "oh, the world is so racist" forever and all days? Isn't it acceptable to adapt a "I don't care what teint you got, whether you're bi, gay or hetero to whatever degree, you can be an a-hole or the sweetest being ever, that fully depends on you" set of mind?

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6 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

I don't see any good intentions at all by that characters with the hose. It's ill-spirited from the very start, followed by a bunch of empty excuses, one worse than the other, why only their own belongings matter, even when there's merely a very little risk of danger, if any at all.

That’s why I said “intentions behind all lives matter” in general, not behind that characters with the hose. 

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

I am not showing support for black lives matter because I am not American.

I am British.

I am British and I'm 100% supporting Black Lives Matter. Sadly in our world racism is systemic and transcends national boundaries.Although racism exists against other minority groups in this country too, and I have and will support movements against that, it doesn't detract from the importance of what's happening right now. I don't feel I need to pick and choose between the issues. 

My support for BLM will take the form of RL action, but SL is a social platform inhabited by real people so it isn't surprising that important RL issues spill over into this world. I don't think anyone is forcing you to get involved, so the respondents who say they use SL as escapism to get away from RL, ok that's your choice and that's absolutely fine. But I don't think there's anything wrong with people who want to show a little solidarity through wearing a t-shirt in-world or whatever as a small token.

Personally, in the past I have been guilty of collusion through being passive, so I'm now trying to do more to support those who don't share my privilege, by listening, understanding and acting/speaking out when it is hopefully appropriate and helpful to do so. 

Edited by MayaSmit
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50 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I suppose my feeling is that the people who are ultimately behind All Lives Matter (which is not to include everyone who has been drawn in by it) do not have good intentions. Or that a lot of well-intentioned people are falling for fallacious arguments.

And you think everyone that says BLM has good intentions?

If "Well, people use it for bad" invalidates something, then we might as well leave things the way they are. 

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12 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

I don't see any good intentions at all by that characters with the hose. It's ill-spirited from the very start, followed by a bunch of empty excuses, one worse than the other, why only their own belongings matter, even when there's merely a very little risk of danger, if any at all.

That's because it's a criticism of the reasoning behind the movement, which I also do not believe is well-intentioned at its core. These are pretty much exactly what most of the arguments that I have heard for it have come to. ("You're saying white lives don't matter! You're saying white people have perfect lives and no problems that need addressing!" And all the rest of it.)

The movement may well recruit people who are well-intentioned and just can't see past the simplistic "all lives matter!" call, which I hope I deconstructed well enough in my previous post. This cartoon is intended, in part, to explain to those people precisely why Black Lives Matter does not mean, and has never meant, that not all lives matter.

 

16 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Yet what? 

And yet these are indeed the arguments that are so frequently used in the All Lives Matter counter-point. 

 

17 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Do you insist that everyone should dwell on "oh, the world is so racist" forever and all days? 

As long as there's racism in the world, yes, I think we should be attempting to address it. I don't think anyone's suggested we will ever reach a perfect world but how many black men should have their necks knelt on before we decide it's a problem?

 

18 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Isn't it acceptable to adapt a "I don't care what teint you got, whether you're bi, gay or hetero to whatever degree, you can be an a-hole or the sweetest being ever, that fully depends on you" set of mind?

No, it's not. When people are being targeted for their race or their sexuality, it is not enough that you personally don't judge people for that, however admirable that makes you. The point is that other people do care, and systemic harm is coming to certain demographics of people based on those characteristics. If your response is to dilute and deflect that, or to say that it's not an issue because you're personally not racist or homophobic, or to complain about there being ongoing discourse about racism, then yes, you're part of the problem. 

 

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