Please disallow slurs as product tags on Marketplace.

[Skyler Pancake]

Okay. I need to expand on what I said earlier.

The Cruelty/Hatred clause could arguably allow me to report the Aborigine avatar, as you could argue that racism always promotes hatred. But... I doubt LL would agree. Clearly racist items like this need to be banned from the MarketPlace and preferably all of SL though. Banning keywords would not solve this issue. There needs to be a change to the content policy itself.

"Cruel or hateful content that could harm, harass, promote or condone violence against, or that is primarily intended to incite hatred of, animals, or individuals or groups based on race or ethnic origin, religion, nationality, disability, gender, age, veteran status, or sexual orientation/gender identity."

Currently there's no phrasing preventing items that are intended to promote oppression, discrimination, or ridicule of people or groups based on their identity. Least not from what I'm interrupting the current policy.

"Cruel or hateful content that could harm

"Cruel or hateful content that could harass

"Cruel or hateful content that could promote or condone violence against

"Cruel or hateful content that is primarily intended to incite hatred

of animals, or individuals or groups based on race or ethnic origin, religion, nationality, disability, gender, age, veteran status, or sexual orientation/gender identity.""

None of those statements directly prohibit content that promotes oppression, discrimination, or ridicule. Yes.. There's arguments they could be, as all of those can result in harm, harassment, or violence, but that doesn't explicitly state it's not allowed.

If I wasn't so tired I'd try to draft some wording myself. But I'm too tired to try and speak legalese tonight. I would love @Kristin Linden to chime in on this issue as well though.

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Kristin Linden
Naming and shaming concerns

[LittleMe Jewell]

While I agree that various slurs should not be allowed, the pictures themselves are in violation of the 'no naming and shaming' policy.  Nothing more needed to be shown lower than the count of items returned for a specific search -- not exact products and not avatar & store names.

Since some words are slurs in some languages, but not in others, LL will likely set it to disallow the same words that they disallow here in the forums.

[Skyler Pancake]

8 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

While I agree that various slurs should not be allowed, the pictures themselves are in violation of the 'no naming and shaming' policy.  Nothing more needed to be shown lower than the count of items returned for a specific search -- not exact products and not avatar & store names.

Since some words are slurs in some languages, but not in others, LL will likely set it to disallow the same words that they disallow here in the forums.

Although I do agree the posting of the store images was unnecessary, I don't believe they violated any stated policies. I've looked through the TOS, community guidelines, and community standards. I can't find anything related to a 'no naming and shaming' policy. Nor any mention of posting publicly accessible information as being against policy.

I think this, in itself, is part of the issue. There are multiple policies for different areas of SL. The forums have policies, the market has policies, in world has policies, content creation has it's own policies. And none of them state the same thing. They all state slightly different things, so in some situations something would be against the policy and in other locations it's not. In addition, a lot of the policies or guides reference things that are no longer valid such as Sansar, forum post reporting, etc.

[lehaab]

4 minutes ago, SimplyNemz said:

Although I do agree the posting of the store images was unnecessary, I don't believe they violated any stated policies. I've looked through the TOS, community guidelines, and community standards. I can't find anything related to a 'no naming and shaming' policy. Nor any mention of posting publicly accessible information as being against policy.

I think this, in itself, is part of the issue. There are multiple policies for different areas of SL. The forums have policies, the market has policies, in world has policies, content creation has it's own policies. And none of them state the same thing. They all state slightly different things, so in some situations something would be against the policy and in other locations it's not. In addition, a lot of the policies or guides reference things that are no longer valid such as Sansar, forum post reporting, etc.

I agree with you. People abide by the laws of all countries. Policies and agreements. And overheating the girl in the sun, decides how to act as a large company. If that girl came to SL, then she agreed with the rules. Why whine now.

[LittleMe Jewell]

20 minutes ago, SimplyNemz said:

Although I do agree the posting of the store images was unnecessary, I don't believe they violated any stated policies. I've looked through the TOS, community guidelines, and community standards. I can't find anything related to a 'no naming and shaming' policy. Nor any mention of posting publicly accessible information as being against policy.

We have been told, here in the forums, that Naming of some avatar or store, for the purposes of saying something bad about them is not allowed.  It has been mentioned that it can be viewed as 'harassment'.  At other times, it has been said that it falls under 'interpersonal dispute'.  

Hard telling in this case - I tend to error on the side of caution with those things.

[Kristin Linden]

Hey there!

I've gone ahead and edited/hid some posts here due to naming and shaming concerns. 

While we continue looking into ways to better improve on the issue at hand, in the meantime if you come across any items on the Marketplace that you feel are in violation of our Terms of Service, Community Guidelines, or Marketplace Guidelines, please flag those items and we will review further. 

 

[lehaab]

Aborigen is a local resident. For example, where I live at the moment, you or another. Enough to find fault already. Better take a book, read the elementary school classes))

[Tari Landar]

I know why such a filter doesn't exist.

It doesn't exist because LL, and whoever they have at the wheel as far as coding the backend of MP is concerned, doesn't know HOW to make (ie, code) a proper filter let alone implement one that was pre-written for them (which only requires the addition of words...super hard, I know) They have proven this a million times over, ever since they bought out a competitor, took over xstreet and shut the potential for someone far more qualified to run something like the MP out completely.

No one wants to heat that though. They want to think that LL does know wtf they're doing, does have people who are "working on those fixes soon" (should I laugh now, or wait a few years for the next fiasco, outrage, problem?)... and while optimistic as all get out, and I commend that optimism...it's not justifiable optimism in this case. Again, because LL has a horrid, absolutely horrid, track record when it comes to coding and implementing filters properly. 

They COULD do it, it is 100% possible, countless others manage just peachy,  and is NOT even remotely difficult to add words to the filter that already exists. But you need someone that knows how to do that (seriously...children could do this since most of the code is already written, or damn well ought to be by now, no excuses is justifiable if this part of the code isn't written right now..literally, no excuse, fire any employee that gives you one. This is basic programming material, not advanced.).

While not nearly as serious as this issue, it is something that plagues the flag filters and has for years (flag filters being things that get listing and/or store removed, marked adult..yadda yadda yadda). We've discussed it ad nauseam here over the years and we get the same old tired "We don't like it either...but we'll tell you were't looking into it, and we'll pretend we don't understand why it's not working right, and we'll pretend we're gonna fix it" response from LL. (seriously, take a gander at the numerous threads regarding filters here, you'll understand my point better, and I beat that dead horse every time, for good reason..because....things like this fall in line with WHY people say LL doesn't listen...they don't).

LL was supposed to have fixed their filter issues not all that long ago when people made a stink about other filter problems..................pretty sure some folks have left us while trying to hold their breath. 

I do agree, this should have never been the case, and LL should have done it right the first damn time, the second, the tenth..but here we are, over a decade later, same damn problem, never fixed....I don't buy the we're outraged too response...cuz it's bollocks. 

It truly is shameful that this is STILL an issue, that LL still need to get their heads on straight with something as simple as filters. It's not as hard as they're claiming. If the code is written properly, all you need to do is ADD WORDS.  They need better code monkeys, they need to stop coddling them, and stop accepting BS excuses for why filters are still this messed up, years later.

I'm actually surprised more people don't complain. I've been complaining for years, all it does is annoy people, and LL. Squeaky wheel ain't working in this case, it absolutely never has. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Tari Landar

[lehaab]

1 hour ago, Tari Landar said:

I know why such a filter doesn't exist.

If they do a hard filter, your business will also be affected. We'll have to redo the tags. My tags fell under the filter. Then I always made honest. 10 years in SL

[Tari Landar]

1 hour ago, lehaab said:

If they do a hard filter, your business will also be affected. We'll have to redo the tags. My tags fell under the filter. Then I always made honest. 10 years in SL

Been there, done that, had my entire store deleted by their inability to grasp programming basics, and their superb levels of incompetence in this area, more than once.  So have numerous others..if not their entire stores, at least some of their listings. This is an old chestnut that has been around since LL got some kind of superiority complex and thought they could do better than the owner(s)/creator(s) of other similar products to MP were already doing (and...ftr...LL can't, they've proven it).

Like I said, it's NOT that difficult to accomplish, it's really not. This particular programming practice is in place far more places than people realize, and no one but LL seems to struggle with it on this level. Them fixing the filters is not some kind of "hard reset to remove all keywords" sort of deal, that's not how this kind of programming works, when done RIGHT. If someone's business is affected by such a filter fix, it's because they are using keywords they should NOT be using in the first place. IF filters are implemented properly, they don't cause havoc. It's when they are not implemented properly that they cause havoc. That is precisely what has caused all the problems with the filters since day one...LL mucking them up entirely. 

I pick no bones about this issue, I'm pretty blunt with it, because LL still isn't listening and coddling them regarding the problem doesn't help things any. LL can and should do better, there is no excuse whatsoever not to. Them constantly saying "we're looking into it", again, for YEARS,  ought to be worrisome for all merchants, and shoppers, actually.  No one takes this damn long to fix something so obvious  

I feel bad for the people on the MP team that take the brunt of the blow, but can't do much about it, like Dakota, because they really do have their hands tied behind their backs and LL ain't doing squat to help take that burden off them either. This is how LL operates, they attempt to placate with excuses, but rarely ever solve actual problems. 

 

 

[Skyler Pancake]

9 hours ago, lehaab said:

If they do a hard filter, your business will also be affected. We'll have to redo the tags. My tags fell under the filter. Then I always made honest. 10 years in SL

I have a gacha resell store. Over 300 items. Not a single one has any keywords that might be considered a slur. And if I'm mistaken and one does? I will HAPPILY spend the five minutes or so changing and relisting the items.

[lehaab]

20 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

Been there, done that, had my entire store deleted by their inability to grasp programming basics, and their superb levels of incompetence in this area, more than once.  So have numerous others..if not their entire stores, at least some of their listings. This is an old chestnut that has been around since LL got some kind of superiority complex and thought they could do better than the owner(s)/creator(s) of other similar products to MP were already doing (and...ftr...LL can't, they've proven it).

Like I said, it's NOT that difficult to accomplish, it's really not. This particular programming practice is in place far more places than people realize, and no one but LL seems to struggle with it on this level. Them fixing the filters is not some kind of "hard reset to remove all keywords" sort of deal, that's not how this kind of programming works, when done RIGHT. If someone's business is affected by such a filter fix, it's because they are using keywords they should NOT be using in the first place. IF filters are implemented properly, they don't cause havoc. It's when they are not implemented properly that they cause havoc. That is precisely what has caused all the problems with the filters since day one...LL mucking them up entirely. 

I pick no bones about this issue, I'm pretty blunt with it, because LL still isn't listening and coddling them regarding the problem doesn't help things any. LL can and should do better, there is no excuse whatsoever not to. Them constantly saying "we're looking into it", again, for YEARS,  ought to be worrisome for all merchants, and shoppers, actually.  No one takes this damn long to fix something so obvious  

I feel bad for the people on the MP team that take the brunt of the blow, but can't do much about it, like Dakota, because they really do have their hands tied behind their backs and LL ain't doing squat to help take that burden off them either. This is how LL operates, they attempt to placate with excuses, but rarely ever solve actual problems. 

 

 

I used google translator coming up with tags. As far as I know google and so censors everything! At this pace, aching people will achieve the closure of Linde LAb. Soon they will raise a rebellion to close the SL. Someone is senile and sick on the head. But there is no other name for them. Such provocateurs need to be imprisoned. In prison and in a straitjacket.

Edited June 7, 2020 by lehaab

[Theresa Tennyson]

23 hours ago, lehaab said:

Aborigen is a local resident. For example, where I live at the moment, you or another. Enough to find fault already. Better take a book, read the elementary school classes))

What did your book tell you about the last keyword you entered for that avatar?

[lehaab]

2 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

What did your book tell you about the last keyword you entered for that avatar?

Secret, nor anything offensive. Each seller has their own keywords. And no one will not share them, well, except for the main ones often used.

[lehaab]

М

Edited June 7, 2020 by lehaab

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

wow a lot of sock puppets in this thread..

sockpuppet

[Drake1 Nightfire]

12 hours ago, lehaab said:

Secret, nor anything offensive. Each seller has their own keywords. And no one will not share them, well, except for the main ones often used.

So, your Head Boy avatar, which keywords are actually relavant? 

Keywords: mesh,avatar,ugly,men,female,women,male,monster,skin,character,funny,freak,clown,halloween,costume,fairy,fantastic,characters, Valentine's day,gift,suit,bento,gift,avi,girl,cartoon,boy,head

The ones in blue have nothing to do with it. 

[Paul Hexem]

I'll be curious to see what their excuse is in a few years when this is still a problem.

When it comes to other guideline violations,, they dismiss the problem and say they don't know how to fix it. Something like this that'll bring the social justice crowd down on them, they'll have to get a little more creative than "I dunno".

[Mollymews]

1 hour ago, Paul Hexem said:

I'll be curious to see what their excuse is in a few years when this is still a problem.

o ye of little faith

😸

[Paul Hexem]

7 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

o ye of little faith

😸

Well, if we're going by past experience only...

[Love Zhaoying]

Remove all the slurs, and then we can't make fun of the people in "power" anymore. Can't we still keep slurs against inbred ignorant uneducated white people? 

[Love Zhaoying]

On 6/6/2020 at 12:44 PM, Tari Landar said:

It doesn't exist because LL, and whoever they have at the wheel as far as coding the backend of MP is concerned, doesn't know HOW to make (ie, code) a proper filter let alone implement one that was pre-written for them (which only requires the addition of words...super hard, I know) They have proven this a million times over, ever since they bought out a competitor, took over xstreet and shut the potential for someone far more qualified to run something like the MP out completely.

Idea: based on reports, LL to add an "#offensive" tag to user's MP entries and elevate the entries' maturity level. Don't like "#offensive" things? Exclude from search result. Love them? Make it part of your search criteria.

[lehaab]

10 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Keyword

there are no offensive words there;) and you are not behaving decently)) Traitor ...

[lehaab]

10 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

The ones in blue have nothing to do with it. 

your vocabulary is very small with synonyms

[lehaab]

5 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Idea: based on reports, LL to add an "#offensive" tag to user's MP entries and elevate the entries' maturity level. Don't like "#offensive" things? Exclude from search result. Love them? Make it part of your search criteria.

The idea of isolating people from society who are looking everywhere for negative 😃