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DeeVious Dagger

REPUBLICAN BASHING IS NOT OK

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I am a republican like half the us is republican yet lately theres Trump and republican bashing going on and clubs arent taking it seriously enough. I dont care what your politics are but you dont discuss politics or religion in a club. I was told free speech... ok but if i argued back Im the one who gets the penalty. Whether we agree on politics we should at least try to be civil we are here to have fun. I am calling for a boycott of this club... any opinions on this? 

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Republican, Democrat, Independent, Green, Whig...shouldn't really matter what political leanings one holds, the key is having the ability to discuss beliefs in an adult manner.

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I say we leave all politics out of SL, if people are spouting crap, leave it be, so reacting to them, they can see when people get knee jerk reactions and instantly go off, so it's about your party,  be like me,  if its about my party (independent) I just ignore it and keep doing what I'm doing,  if I stop and let it affect me, which it seems you have let it because you posted it to the forum, then it's giving people a venue to jab you with it.    just let it go,  take a deep breath. 

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On 6/6/2020 at 12:35 PM, Nalates Urriah said:

If you aren't seeing the bashing, I suspect it is because you aren't speaking up. Try triggering a s snowflake or two.

Because calling leftists snowflakes and purposely trying to 'trigger' them isn't bashing either.

 

🤲🙏🤲🙏

 

Both sides have their rhetoric and insults. Acknowledging that you're just as brainwashed as they are, but from a different perspective, will let you actually listen and try to figure things out for yourself.

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I think the proportion of Democrats in SL is a lot higher than in RL.

We're outnumbered, DeeVious.  In this case, discretion is the better part of valor, unless you want to be kicked out of your favorite club(s).

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Posted (edited)

I have experienced this before, not with a club but same idea.

First let me tell you, you will be fighting a losing battle. If a majority of the people at said club are the ones bashing, they won't care what you have to say, because they won't find issue with anything regarding double standards in rules because it protects them. Additionally, region owners are allowed to enforce rules as they see fit, this includes being biased, as long as it isn't against a protected class(in which case, LL will step in. See the "Intolerance" abuse report category).

So what can you do?

1. Passively inform people you know. This means, don't go out on a vendetta* and try to bring them down. Don't stoop to their† level. This means:

  • If the club is mentioned within a group of people you know who have either the same ideals, or believe in fair treatment, then calmly bring it up‡. Stating "The club fosters a unwelcoming and hostile environment" works much much better than "CLUB IS BAISED!!!!".
  • If you are discussing a topic where it is relevant, say for example, at a discussion board with people of same ideals talking about fair treatment, then you can bring it up there as well, but don't stick on it every discussion.

2. Find a better club. Clubs are a dime a dozen in Second Life, you can find many out there. There are a lot out there that specifically ban political discussions, welcome constructive political constructions, or even cater to your specific ideals! I recommend checking the Destination Guide or World Search regarding this.

* Vendetta would be spamming or posting in irrelevant channels(group chats, forums, local chat, etc) in attempts to bring them down. This question does not qualify as such as it does not name and shame said club.
† Because people will try to put words in my mouth, when I say "their", I mean the club's and the people there. Not a specific political party. I know some democrats first hand who are level headed and would find issue with the environment there.
‡ Not on the forums, naming and shaming is not permitted on the forums.

Edited by Chaser Zaks
Forgot to size footnote text
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1 hour ago, Nalates Urriah said:

True. But the Left spends huge amounts on studying and learning how to change minds and indoctrinate the inattentive. 

As does the right.  There are no angels on this battlefield.  Rather than accuse either side of being more duplicitous than the other, I prefer to watch what both have to say and to make up my own mind about where the truth lies ( mindful of the fact that the phrase "the truth lies" is, itself, a loaded concept ).  

1 hour ago, Nalates Urriah said:

If one has good ideas and does not want to live under the ideology of failed systems... hiding and keeping the good ideas to one's self is pretty much certain failure. However, you are entitled to do as you choose.

That's a very good point.  In the context of this forum, though, a political "good idea" devolves quickly into "my camp is better than yours," with little room for reasoned discussion. As I said before, any argument I might add is already familiar to both sides and is not likely to persuade either to change, and there are very few undecided people out there.  There are plenty of good ideas and bad ideas, but little agreement about which ones are which.  Stoking the flames by simply repeating the rhetoric seems pointless -- a recipe for failure.  I choose not to make a delicate situation worse.

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engagement in SL like everywhere else depends on how we argue our pov

debates fall over when we argue in a way which shows that a person is our politics and we staunchly defend our person regardless - right or wrong.  When so then this is not politics, it is fandom

 

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8 hours ago, DeeVious Dagger said:

I am a republican like half the us is republican yet lately theres Trump and republican bashing going on and clubs arent taking it seriously enough. I dont care what your politics are but you dont discuss politics or religion in a club. I was told free speech... ok but if i argued back Im the one who gets the penalty. Whether we agree on politics we should at least try to be civil we are here to have fun. I am calling for a boycott of this club... any opinions on this? 

it's not only in the clubs, it's around at all levels, also on the forums, an higher ranks. ( not only SL )

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14 hours ago, DeeVious Dagger said:

I am a republican like half the us is republican yet lately theres Trump and republican bashing going on and clubs arent taking it seriously enough. I dont care what your politics are but you dont discuss politics or religion in a club. I was told free speech... ok but if i argued back Im the one who gets the penalty. Whether we agree on politics we should at least try to be civil we are here to have fun. I am calling for a boycott of this club... any opinions on this? 

So, you're a big believer in "cancel culture", I take it?

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1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

So, you're a big believer in "cancel culture", I take it?

And there it is ... I was asking opinions and gutter sniping goes into effect... thank you all for your input . All I was asking is shouldnt this be taken more seriously... 

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1 hour ago, DeeVious Dagger said:

And there it is ... I was asking opinions and gutter sniping goes into effect... thank you all for your input . All I was asking is shouldnt this be taken more seriously... 

 

You didn't just ask for opinions, you called for a boycott. Both SL in world and this forum are public but privately owned places, you can (as long as it doesn't violate the ToS or community standards) state your opinion, but as it is with all public places, freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences. Be it responses you don't like to hear or getting kicked out of privately owned places. You can always mute people or visit other places/clubs.

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1 hour ago, DeeVious Dagger said:

And there it is ... I was asking opinions and gutter sniping goes into effect... thank you all for your input . All I was asking is shouldnt this be taken more seriously... 

Not exactly.  You called for a boycott of the club that dissed you.  Theresa's right, that's a bid to cancel the opposition.

I'm on your side, but I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

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18 hours ago, DeeVious Dagger said:

I dont care what your politics are but you dont discuss politics or religion in a club.

Says who?  If you own the club, you can set the rules.  If you don't then you have to abide by whatever the club allows.

 

 

18 hours ago, DeeVious Dagger said:

I was told free speech... ok but if i argued back Im the one who gets the penalty.

You might want to study up on that Constitution a bit.  The Freedom of Speech dictates what the Government can and cannot do about the things you say/draw/etc...., but it does not dictate anything about non-Government entities.

 

 

18 hours ago, DeeVious Dagger said:

Whether we agree on politics we should at least try to be civil we are here to have fun.

Yes, fully agree.  The person that owns the club might thing differently.

 

 

18 hours ago, DeeVious Dagger said:

I am calling for a boycott of this club..

That is your right, but it likely won't go far.

 

 

18 hours ago, DeeVious Dagger said:

any opinions on this? 

Not sure if you are wanting opinions on what happened in the club or the proposed boycotting of the club, but either way, based on your latest reply, I don't think you really want any opinions unless they agree with you.

 

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33 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

but either way, based on your latest reply, I don't think you really want any opinions unless they agree with you.

can't really say that the post where he replied to was meant to discuss, it's a vile attempt, totally fitting as example for the issue in the OP.

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Posted (edited)

Political and social justice destroyed Sansar and got people banned from the platform.

Everyone has a mute/ignore/block button, and if they have trouble having a civil discussion, or do not want to hear or discuss differing views - they can use them.

Some users decided to report other users on Sansar to staff, because they found countering views, even random objects and names to be 'harassment', and led to bans.

At least here, LL will not get involved in user to user disputes, and only with guideline and rule breakers. They haven't learned this lesson on Sansar yet though.

Edited by entity0x

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4 hours ago, entity0x said:

At least here, LL will not get involved in user to user disputes, and only with guideline and rule breakers.

Mainly ... yes .. but they'r just humans, and difference in opinions is shown sometimes in decisions.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/30/2020 at 1:36 AM, Lindal Kidd said:

I think the proportion of Democrats in SL is a lot higher than in RL.

Actually, more than half the people in SL and the vast majority of the people in RL are neither Democrats nor Republicans.

Edited by ChinRey
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2 hours ago, ChinRey said:

Actually, more than half the people in SL and the vast majority of the people in RL are neither Deomcrats nor Republicans.

at the moment we have 15 seperate parties in our parliament, traditionally  left-liberal(mid)-right.. with many overlaps. Although the biggest ones lead the formation of a government after elections (and mostly delivers the PM), it makes forming a government sometimes difficult, mostly 3 or 4 parties form the council of ministers , this normaly leads to a quite stable course our country goes.
Thanks to our monarchy, we don't have the returning hussle of elections for a president .

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45 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

at the moment we have 15 seperate parties in our parliament, traditionally  left-liberal(mid)-right.. with many overlaps. Although the biggest ones lead the formation of a government after elections (and mostly delivers the PM), it makes forming a government sometimes difficult, mostly 3 or 4 parties form the council of ministers , this normaly leads to a quite stable course our country goes.
Thanks to our monarchy, we don't have the returning hussle of elections for a president .

But that's European politics, Alwin. If I understand right, the American phemoena that goes by the same name is something completely different. The closest we can come this side of the pond is probably premier league football - no, a reality series about two rival premier league football teams, dramatized for maximum viewability and minimum credibility.

To understand the OP's situation, imagine a Liverpool fan stumbling into a Man U supporters' water hole. Then multiply by ten. ;)

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Posted (edited)
On 5/29/2020 at 3:35 PM, DeeVious Dagger said:

I am a republican like half the us is republican yet lately theres Trump and republican bashing going on and clubs arent taking it seriously enough. I dont care what your politics are but you dont discuss politics or religion in a club. I was told free speech... ok but if i argued back Im the one who gets the penalty. Whether we agree on politics we should at least try to be civil we are here to have fun. I am calling for a boycott of this club... any opinions on this? 

I'm Independent yet registered Republican to vote in their primaries. I am acutely aware of the Leftist bullying and anti-free-speech bias in SL. It is just a fact of life in SL. Unfortunately the Lab's personnel has a strong Leftist bias too. So you cannot win in any heated, or other, discussion in SL. If you are losing the argument and being bullied in a thread it may be allowed to continue for a time. However, start winning and the thread, even if you are WAY careful to avoid name calling or bullying tactics, will close pretty quickly. That is my opinion and experience. Proving it would be difficult.

I don't put all the one-sided-ness of this on the Lab's moderators. When bullies lose they quickly call for reinforcements and report threads. The Lab tends not to spend time evaluating. A quick look and recognition of contention in the thread and it gets locked. Leftist win by silencing debate. It is a tactic antithetical to free speech people. The Lab strives for 'harmony' and 'peace' on the forum. However, I still think their bias shows in the moderating.

The idea that one does not discuss religion or politics is an idea put forth by the those that can't support their viewpoint and those following Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals. (If you haven't read it, you should. Its like 80 small pages.) Anyone that has matured past an adolescent-mind stage can discuss such topics and should. When you find you are arguing with one using adolescent or Alinsky tactics you have to change your tactics.

If you have not studied how to 'change minds' or win arguments you have no chance of getting your point across in SL. You are up against corporate media's mind control techniques (see Rape of the Mind - Amazon - heavy reading) that have indoctrinated those holding leftist ideas. Normal human conversation is not going to shake anyone lose from their indoctrination. People do not want to admit they have been indoctrinated or even THINK they may not be in control of their thinking. THAT is far too scary. Plus Leftist ideals sound so good and nice.... one just has to be uninformed about what those ideologies have brought to our RL world.

If you read 1984, (Orwell's book) the phrase 'Black Lives Matter" not being considered racist and the phrase 'All Lives Matter" as racist makes perfect sense. I am willing to bet we see emotional, non-thinking response to that sentence. But, you get my point.

clubs arent taking it seriously enough - What do you mean? Are you thinking club owners should be controlling conversations? What if the club owner is a Neo-Liberal (the younger Liberals that deplore free speech... er... hate speech)?

Whether we agree on politics we should at least try to be civil we are here to have fun - No... humor and the idea of 'fun' is not part of the Left's ideology. One does not change because they enter a specific room. Today's Liberals and Socialists are taught and indoctrinated to behave within Alinsky's Rules and to shame any who dare to have a diverse opinion different from theirs and it is their job to shut them up. Where they are makes no difference. THIS is what you are going up against. 

Since they are oblivious to what has been done to them it is up to you to learn how to combat the corporate media indoctrination. I suggest you start with these two podcasts by cartoonist Scott Adams:

Scott Adams PART1: I Teach You How to Break Others Free From Their delusions. We Might Need That.
Scott Adams PART2: I Teach You How to Break Others Free From Their delusions. We Might Need That.

Boycotting a club is a type of coercion. It generally doesn't work. And you always have the question of whether a boycott is correctly targeted, likely to be effective rather than galvanizing, and whether it is morally and ideologically a good thing. Good intent just doesn't mean much.

I suspect you have a level of indoctrination too, because of your call to boycott. Did you think through my points on boycott? Or is it an idea that just popped into your mind? If so, where did it come from? Theresa Tennyson caught it immediately and pointed it out. Boycotts are an often used tactic of the Left. So... you may want to consider why it is in your repertoire of solutions.

On 5/30/2020 at 9:56 AM, LittleMe Jewell said:

You might want to study up on that Constitution a bit.  The Freedom of Speech dictates what the Government can and cannot do about the things you say/draw/etc...., but it does not dictate anything about non-Government entities.

I mostly agree. But, we Americans have decided that free speech is about more than just what the government can do. Monopolies in business and media that impinge on people freedom get addressed. When control of speech affects our freedom in a monopolistic way to limit the exchange ideas the government has and likely will take action to stop it.

A single club as the OP complains about is NOT a free speech issue in the way the OP likely is thinking. You are right.

On 6/1/2020 at 1:48 AM, ChinRey said:

Actually, more than half the people in SL and the vast majority of the people in RL are neither Democrats nor Republicans.

Maybe you would define 'vast majority'?

Quote

...April 2020, Gallup polling found that 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 30% identified as Republican, and 36% as Independent. 

That leaves 3% without a party affiliation... 

Edited by Nalates Urriah
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On 5/29/2020 at 6:35 PM, DeeVious Dagger said:

I am a republican like half the us is republican yet lately theres Trump and republican bashing going on and clubs arent taking it seriously enough. I dont care what your politics are but you dont discuss politics or religion in a club. I was told free speech... ok but if i argued back Im the one who gets the penalty. Whether we agree on politics we should at least try to be civil we are here to have fun. I am calling for a boycott of this club... any opinions on this? 

Awwww

1CFE1386-D1B4-4C67-8E18-AAC242E03525.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Maybe you would define 'vast majority'?

95% of the world's population don't live in the USA. I define that as a vast majority.

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Personally, I don't bother adding my voice to political discussions in these forums, but it's not because I don't have one. The choir already knows any hymns I might sing and the other side are not likely to be convinced by yet another rant. It would be very hard to find anyone who is undecided about whether we are becoming great again or going to hell in a handbasket. It's just that my added words would not be likely to convince anyone to trade sides.  I would much rather vent privately and carry my opinions to the ballot box. That's just me, of course.  As much as I am saddened by our polarized society, I respect everyone's right to say what's on her/his mind and I bristle at the thought of censoring opinions that are unpopular. I don't see much "bashing", but a lot of frustration.  Those who feel a need to express it have every right to do so.

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1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

95% of the world's population don't live in the USA. I define that as a vast majority.

Thanks. Good point. 350,000,000 / 7,700,000,000 = 4.5% ... you are right. But in a discussion about Republicans, a strictly American thing it seems out of context. In regard to SL pertinent percentages would be conservative versus liberal or free vs totalitarian. 

1 hour ago, Rolig Loon said:

Personally, I don't bother adding my voice to political discussions in these forums, but it's not because I don't have one. The choir already knows any hymns I might sing and the other side are not likely to be convinced by yet another rant. It would be very hard to find anyone who is undecided about whether we are becoming great again or going to hell in a handbasket. It's just that my added words would not be likely to convince anyone to trade sides.  I would much rather vent privately and carry my opinions to the ballot box. That's just me, of course.  As much as I am saddened by our polarized society, I respect everyone's right to say what's on her/his mind and I bristle at the thought of censoring opinions that are unpopular. I don't see much "bashing", but a lot of frustration.  Those who feel a need to express it have every right to do so.

True. But the Left spends huge amounts on studying and learning how to change minds and indoctrinate the inattentive. 

If one has good ideas and does not want to live under the ideology of failed systems... hiding and keeping the good ideas to one's self is pretty much certain failure. However, you are entitled to do as you choose.

If you aren't seeing the bashing, I suspect it is because you aren't speaking up. Try triggering a s snowflake or two.

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12 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

True. But the Left spends huge amounts on studying and learning how to change minds and indoctrinate the inattentive. 

If one has good ideas and does not want to live under the ideology of failed systems... hiding and keeping the good ideas to one's self is pretty much certain failure. However, you are entitled to do as you choose.

If you aren't seeing the bashing, I suspect it is because you aren't speaking up. Try triggering a s snowflake or two.

 

Okay, I snap the bait. If you want to talk about indoctrinating: watch Fox "News" or read what the Liar-in-Chief writes on Twitter.

 

It is also quite funny talking about the ideology of failed systems - while the big majority of those who critizise the current US situation don't look at those failed systems but at well working systems like in many European countries. Systems that don't put you out of your house to be able to pay your medical bills or paying back your student loans.

 

It is also funny when you talk about triggering a snowflake - look at what all you wrote and think about who got triggered...

 

BTW, the OP made a typical mistake often made especially by republican americans: thinking that the whole world (in this case the whole SL) rotates around their own little backyard aka the USA.

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