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DakotaMacy

Sky Clutter - Mainland

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I have a 4096 parcel in Baldwin which I have owned for 3-4 months.  In the last two weeks, the sky surrounding my parcel has become cluttered with objects...with more each day.   (see image taken from my land) I have been in SL for 7 years and have never had this happen before.  I know that land is limited at the moment but I also thought that skyboxes etc needed to be a certain height (so we can't easily see them). Any thoughts?  Is this the new norm?  thanks for any insight you can provide

Cluttered-sky-001.jpg

 

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You might of got new neighbors if this is new around you. Mainland skies being cluttered with skyboxes is nothing new. Just turn down your draw distance. 

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There is no height limit for skyboxes on Mainland. It's only part of the covenant on the Linden Homes continents and on numerous private regions.

The easiest "fix" is reducing your draw distance and derendering annoyingly close objects. Not sure, however, if that'll also get rid of shadows cast by the derendered object... 

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Yes, it does make mainland look junky.

Once LL gets more region server capacity on AWS, it may be time for a crackdown on mainland sky junk. The Bellessaria rules seem to work well - no sky junk below 2000m. Offer an opportunity for a land swap and a free move to a non-continent of isolated sims for people who want to be alone.

 

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Sky clutter is everywhere on the mainland, so you've been very lucky if you've avoided it so far. As a general rule, you can't report something for being ugly, whether it's a low skybox, a full glow rotating oak tree with particle squirrels, or a giant plywood cube. People get a lot of freedom to build what they want on the mainland.

The rules for mainland are only about things like land cutting, adverts and stuff like that. Here are the mainland policies: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Mainland_policies

And the more detailed advertising policy: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Policy_on_ad_farms_and_network_advertisers

Some other more universal stuff is also covered such as age ratings/adult content rules and general abuse rules.

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Thanks to everyone for their replies.  I will reduce my draw distance and just not look upward 🙂

 

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3 hours ago, animats said:

Offer an opportunity for a land swap and a free move to a non-continent of isolated sims for people who want to be alone

Not everyone that has a mainland skybox wants to be "isolated" whether or not they want to be alone.  I have a nicely landscaped mainland home on ground level, and both a platform and a skybox at various levels in the sky (both well over 2000m high, by the way).   Please don't assume that the only people who put up skyboxes or sky platforms are anti-social people who never want to see or talk to anyone else.

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4 hours ago, animats said:

 The Bellessaria rules seem to work well - no sky junk below 2000m.

 

That is the reason a lot of us want nothing to do with Bellessaria.

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Trash on the floor really rots all Mainland!
I've already reported mega prim with images of the horizon, but that disturb the whole neighborhood! LL just does nothing! It is very difficult to live on the ground with so much garbage dumpster nearby!
In heaven, over 300 anything goes ... I live in the skies! But the ground is the eternal shame of LL ... without any control since its foundation ...
There are people in SL and RL who only exist to hinder ...

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Some people like the anything goes, some don't.  If you like live on the mainland, if not get a Bellessaria home. There is something for everybody.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/30/2020 at 12:59 AM, Moira Timmerman said:

Not everyone that has a mainland skybox wants to be "isolated" whether or not they want to be alone.  I have a nicely landscaped mainland home on ground level, and both a platform and a skybox at various levels in the sky (both well over 2000m high, by the way).

Another reason for having sky installation is to put all the prims to good use. We pay top money for them after all. A full mainland sim comes with 22,500 prims and even with fairly moderate optimisation you don't normally need more than 2,000 - 3,000 at most - to fill up the land. I have 16 fulll sim sky platforms above Coniston (and yes, I do keep them all well above normal draw distance) and still almost 1000 prims to spare there.

Edited by ChinRey
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On 5/29/2020 at 3:05 PM, animats said:

Yes, it does make mainland look junky.

Once LL gets more region server capacity on AWS, it may be time for a crackdown on mainland sky junk. The Bellessaria rules seem to work well - no sky junk below 2000m. Offer an opportunity for a land swap and a free move to a non-continent of isolated sims for people who want to be alone.

 

Still going on with this? It's not going to happen. Mainland is free-for-all land and it's way too late to change that. It's not Linden Lab's job to keep the people you find unacceptable out of mainland.

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18 hours ago, Axel Naxos said:

There are people in SL and RL who only exist to hinder ..

Hinder whom or what?

I'm glad there is an option for people to be completely free on their own land. If you want regulated land, there are plenty of options for you.

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3 hours ago, Syo Emerald said:

I'm glad there is an option for people to be completely free on their own land. If you want regulated land, there are plenty of options for you.

Yeah, although after the success of Belli, I have to wonder why the Mainland needed to be the place for the laissez-faire, "anything goes" covenant. Why couldn't it have been left up to the free market of private estates to supply that demand?

Too late now, of course, for existing Mainland. But knowing what we know now, I think it would have been smarter to give Mainland a real covenant and real Land Team enforcement, letting Estates cater to the no-holds-barred aficionados. 

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1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

Too late now, of course, for existing Mainland. But knowing what we know now, I think it would have been smarter to give Mainland a real covenant and real Land Team enforcement, letting Estates cater to the no-holds-barred aficionados. 

If LL had somehow seen 17 years into the future, perhaps they would have created a covenant. That covenant would've killed SL within a couple years. Mainland is the original sandbox. LL didn't know what would be built when SL started. SL was a place for people to create things together (or on their own). If LL had restricted what was created, those early residents would've dropped SL like a hot potato. 

In a way, mainland is still like that original sandbox environment. It's the one place in SL where you can buy land that nobody else controls and build whatever you like. To others it might look like junk, but to the person who built it their build is special because it's something they created. 

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4 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

If LL had somehow seen 17 years into the future, perhaps they would have created a covenant. That covenant would've killed SL within a couple years. Mainland is the original sandbox. LL didn't know what would be built when SL started. SL was a place for people to create things together (or on their own). If LL had restricted what was created, those early residents would've dropped SL like a hot potato. 

In a way, mainland is still like that original sandbox environment. It's the one place in SL where you can buy land that nobody else controls and build whatever you like. To others it might look like junk, but to the person who built it their build is special because it's something they created. 

I was about to try to explain this myself.  You did a fine job.  Thanks.

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But why Mainland? If the free-for-all is so valuable, why wouldn't Estates have made a fortune from it? It's not as if Mainland were free. Although of course there were always free sandboxes, too.

I guess there were a couple years before Estates got prominent, but then nobody had heard of Second Life until Anshe's mug was on Business Week, so I guess they could have waited until then to make the Mainland marketable, and let Estates get that lucrative no-covenant market.

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There are regions in the mainland that have 'zoning restrictions'.  They are not the most popular places but the people that like them, like them.  I am one of the land managers that helps with cleanup work in some of them.  There typically isn't much to do.  Usually it's just turning off build - everyone when the residents forgetfully leave it on, and maybe returning litter that passersby left.  We don't allow floating structures below 400 meters altitude to prevent junking up the World Map.  Parcel set-backs are required on the ground but residents are allowed to join their builds in the sky, if they are mutually interested.  Several years ago there were several residents with interconnected skyboxes that resembled a space opera movie set.  This spanned several rented parcels and we allowed them to use the interstitial space between the parcels to facilitate this use.

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3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Yeah, although after the success of Belli, I have to wonder why the Mainland needed to be the place for the laissez-faire, "anything goes" covenant. Why couldn't it have been left up to the free market of private estates to supply that demand?

Too late now, of course, for existing Mainland. But knowing what we know now, I think it would have been smarter to give Mainland a real covenant and real Land Team enforcement, letting Estates cater to the no-holds-barred aficionados. 

I don't think the success of Belli is a sign that people love rules so much. Beside the appeal of "the new shiny thing", Bellis success is likely build on its beautiful landscape and its themed neighborhood with a nice style of houses, that appeal to a broad audiance. Now, should all mainland be like Belli? I'm not sure. I'm even more unsure if that is even a realistic wish, as it would probably mean, that we would have gotten a much smaller mainland and that the landscaping wouldn't look this good after almost 20 years. Also the stricter the rules, the more work LL creates for themself.

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I've never understood why people are hostile about the idea that other people might be having fun building whatever they like on mainland. I get that a lot of people would like builds like mine to disappear, as it's a shop, it's not realistic, and other things like that. But it's really not hurting anyone and it doesn't stop there being areas with stricter rules elsewhere.

I'm glad that I've had a chance to build whatever I like without having to be wealthy enough for my own region or deal with the stress of private landlords. I've been on the same spot for over ten years and built all sorts of things. That shouldn't be a problem.

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I've only been here 6 years, but the sense I get from talking with others that have been around for a long time and from seeing pictures from the earlier days, is that the RL 'realism' that seems to be a focus these days wasn't the focus initially.  I don't think it's necessary to have the entire mainland conform to some sense of being realistic looking.  There are times I'm not sure I like something a neighbor has built on their parcel, but for the most part, there are usually things that I can do to mitigate it.   

One of the things I enjoy about traveling around mainland is all the different types of things that have been created. I often stop in at shops I see while out and about, especially if they are interesting or different looking.  Travelling in the neighborhoods of Bellisseria can be a very pretty experience, but after a sim or so, it all starts to meld together - just more of the same types of houses with the same general types of landscaping.   

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12 minutes ago, Moira Timmerman said:

I've only been here 6 years, but the sense I get from talking with others that have been around for a long time and from seeing pictures from the earlier days, is that the RL 'realism' that seems to be a focus these days wasn't the focus initially. 

Early SL was cartoon-like, and everyone was issued a gun. SL has come a long way.

SL looks very good when you do it right. See anything posted by Strawberry Singh. After all the headaches, EEP is starting to work, and we can look at the sky again. The moon is very nice. Sunsets are impressive.

So blatantly ugly objects stand out more.

goodsunset1.thumb.jpg.7579a15261003fe8e4e407bb159e2425.jpg

Sunset at Calleta. Note strange white objects on right. That's a building with a bad lowest LOD model.

The technical and social issues of cleaning up SL are tough, but not impossible. Pushing all sky junk to somewhere above 1000m, as with Bellessaria, would be a good first step.

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, animats said:

SL looks very good when you do it right. .

you mean do it "your" way ?  .. but that's not mine...

Quote

 Pushing all sky junk to somewhere above 1000m

i love my junk where it is, and however your pic is nice, that's not why i live on mainland.
my tip: don't travel mainland, stay at home and you won't see it. You start to sound like the earlie Belli groupies that couldn't fly where they wanted ... now they can, and never see one.

Edited by Alwin Alcott
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I don't like living in private regions where the land is not really mine, my only solution living in a mainland is buying most of the lands around me so no random person with ugly building or laggy scripts live next to me, i live in a very nice region where everyone is sticking to the theme, but sadly not long ago we had a new neighbor who did this..
I missed out on this land i would've bought it...

* the draw distance is 300 no junk in the sky, it was a very nice region but not anymore..

Snapshot_5145.png

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