Getting Dressed in Second Life

[Amina Sopwith]

58 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

If I had come into SL as a noob NOW? I dunno. I'd see all the fancy avatars and want to look like that. Then I'd get frustrated all to hell. I know I would. I'd spend a lot of money, get frustrated and then probably never return and hate myself for spending HOW MUCH? money.

If I came into SL as a noob now, I'd never stay. The culture is such that there is extreme pressure and judgement to look a certain way if you want to interact with people, and the learning curve to look that way is insane. It was roleplaying that finally got me to fall in love with the place first time round, and luckily people at the time were very forgiving of hideous avs who were still learning. If I'd been found wanting for my looks in the beginning, or not allowed in at all, I'd not have had the chance to discover how much I loved it and be inclined to make the effort.

It's really no good setting all the trials and tribulations at the very start. You need to lure people and entice them so that they have the motivation to want to go to all the trouble it's going to take to find the place's full potential.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Amina Sopwith

[Evangeline Arcadia]

6 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I know SL has always had a learning curve and required a time commitment, but I'm really quite uncomfortable with the idea that it should be some kind of dungeon challenge where only the bravest and boldest should prevail. If you want that kind of approach to it, fine, but by its very nature it's going to lose a lot of people (that's the idea, no?) and however exercised some people get about it, there really is no moral value to staying in SL and getting mesh to work well for you. It really doesn't make one a better person.

...but for the cultural shift that seems to have sprung up around it. We always liked to look pretty and individual, nothing wrong with that, but as I believe I've said before, the focus on looks now seems to come to the detriment of whimsy, open-mindedness and sheer friendliness. People of course have every right to associate with whomever they like, and make any rules they wish for their land, nobody disputes that. But a culture in which system avs are banned from many places, and in which numerous people wish to create environments where they need never even clap eyes on one, even if there's no need to interact at all, is going to affect the way the place hums.

 and I do wonder why it upsets people quite so much to hear this criticism, especially given how completely true it is.

On reading this, this song popped in my head....:) (for non-mm fans it makes sense if you know the words and meaning behind it - quite apt...)

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Evangeline Arcadia

[Mollymews]

12 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

My main beef with SL avatar customization now is the layer upon layer of incompatible, contradictory, and obsolete controls involved. Assuming you've come into possession of a reasonable Bento head, say. Now you want to do basic customization of its shape so the face looks distinctively "you"... and you do that shape customization using the classic body sliders. Kind of. Problem is, they don't all work. Not only that, different sliders work for one head than for a different model of head - even from the same creator. And then to adjust part of the shape, you use the system interface for hair -- but it doesn't actually control the hair, even though the sliders are still there. Now they control nothing

way down in the long running forum feedback thread when Bento was being developed, it was raised a few times for the body and head makers to be able to set in the body file the min.max. range and enable/disable of each of the sliders independently. The basic idea being for the viewer to only display/enable those sliders for which a range had been set

Linden did think about it but like quite a few other things asked for at the time, this was deferred to one day may be

 

[MoiraKathleen]

If you have worn mesh clothes on a system body - so, understand alphas - and get one of the BOM bodies where the creator has created a separate BOM body (so you don't have to "turn it on" someplace in the body's HUD) BOM is not really complicated at all. 

 

[Maryanne Solo]

On 5/30/2020 at 2:59 PM, Moira Timmerman said:

BOM is not really complicated at all.

🥰 True dat. 

[Marianne Little]

I wish how I could really explain and talk to people how easy BOM is. I do not find the right words, I am afraid. I speak English, but the nuances may not be sophisticated enough.

I think of BOM as a canvas where the layers are projected. The BOM mesh bodies are like a sophisticated version of the default system avatar. As long as I can remember, LL refused to update the default avatar because that would break existing content. Body parts was first made out of desperation to hide the paddle feet. Yes, it was even sculpted toes and feet before mesh.

LL was sitting back and let this happen. First body parts, then full avatars covering the avatar and hiding it with an alpha layer. For this, you needed to learn the applier madness, and increased the need for lots of makeup slots and the need to learn how to mix slots. I am old in SL, and used heads since they were first made, but the appliers on upper, lower layer, combining this slot with that slot, was frustrating.

Now people are resisting to use BOM because they think it is difficult. While it is the opposite. Click and add. Click and take off.

Setting up the mesh avatar with BOM is a one time experience. Find how to turn it on, and forget it. Continue like you use your classic avatar. This is for you who say you do not have time to fiddle with the mesh bodyparts. You can have the more sleek look with hands and toes that look good, and continue to add and take off your layers. Wear and replace classic skins. Just as you did before. Use your alpha layers and the mesh clothes you already bought. As your wardrobe grows, maybe you will buy a bathing suit that is made for that body and follow it so tight that you don't have to alpha anything.

And @Prokofy Nevatalked about neck shade and how to match body with the skin on the head. No need for it if the body is set to BOM. Your skin show up on your body, matching the head skin on the classic avatar perfect because it IS the same skin. If you have a full body tattoo that goes up on the neck, no need to have a body applier for body X and another applier for head Y. And find the right applier slots on the head to use that tattoo with hairbase, lipstick, eyebrows and all other makeup. Or beard, for those who use it. Just find the tattoo with the tattoo layer symbol, click on it and add it. So simple.

Okay, this was my daily speak about how I love BOM.

How can we tall new people about this, so they understand? In my opinion, dropping the applier talk and using layers are way easier. And one can still use appliers with or without materials if one wishes too, combining both for those who want it. That can be the second step.

It is even a 1 L male and a free female body now, ready to use mesh. It is a one time job, turning on media and activate BOM. Then turn off media. You use the HUD again if you need to change feet, or you need to use the alpha in the HUD. These things are done without media.

To find clothes that fit, for a builder avatar or a sales representative avatar, that change only a few times a year, is easy. It is enough on the market, but not for the fashonista who shop every event and every weekend sale.

For @Prokofy Neva, this would be an even cheaper avatar.

It is faster to learn, and the library skins work.

Shorter learning curve.

Using the words BOM or Bakes on Mesh is perhaps complicating it. Saying: "A prettier body that let you use the skin you already wear" is easier to understand for new people?

But this is also a no Marketplace body. Knowing this when you start, is impossible. You need to meet someone who tell you about it. On Youtube, the majority of videos use Maitreya, Catwa, Legacy, Lelutka, Belleza, Signature et cetera.

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Marianne Little
changed a few words to clarify

[Love Zhaoying]

22 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I do not find the right words, I am afraid. I speak English, but the nuances may not be sophisticated enough.

It's not you. Most around here don't comprehend "nuanced English".

[Love Zhaoying]

BOM has an "unfortunate name" problem, should just be "skins with mesh". The problem with choosing the unfortunate name "Bento" (unrelated feature) is "expectation" vs. "reality".

 

[Lindal Kidd]

@Marianne Little, that was a very nice explanation!  Would you care to:

1.  Give a creator name and/or a landmark to the free/$L1 BoM bodies?

2.  Discuss the possible problems involved with using legacy skins with mesh bodies?  For example, the white patches that a lot of older skins leave around fingernail areas.  Who are some good skin makers that don't have this issue?

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/2/2020 at 5:33 AM, Marianne Little said:

I wish how I could really explain and talk to people how easy BOM is. I do not find the right words, I am afraid. I speak English, but the nuances may not be sophisticated enough.

I think of BOM as a canvas where the layers are projected. The BOM mesh bodies are like a sophisticated version of the default system avatar. As long as I can remember, LL refused to update the default avatar because that would break existing content. Body parts was first made out of desperation to hide the paddle feet. Yes, it was even sculpted toes and feet before mesh.

LL was sitting back and let this happen. First body parts, then full avatars covering the avatar and hiding it with an alpha layer. For this, you needed to learn the applier madness, and increased the need for lots of makeup slots and the need to learn how to mix slots. I am old in SL, and used heads since they were first made, but the appliers on upper, lower layer, combining this slot with that slot, was frustrating.

Now people are resisting to use BOM because they think it is difficult. While it is the opposite. Click and add. Click and take off.

Setting up the mesh avatar with BOM is a one time experience. Find how to turn it on, and forget it. Continue like you use your classic avatar. This is for you who say you do not have time to fiddle with the mesh bodyparts. You can have the more sleek look with hands and toes that look good, and continue to add and take off your layers. Wear and replace classic skins. Just as you did before. Use your alpha layers and the mesh clothes you already bought. As your wardrobe grows, maybe you will buy a bathing suit that is made for that body and follow it so tight that you don't have to alpha anything.

And @Prokofy Nevatalked about neck shade and how to match body with the skin on the head. No need for it if the body is set to BOM. Your skin show up on your body, matching the head skin on the classic avatar perfect because it IS the same skin. If you have a full body tattoo that goes up on the neck, no need to have a body applier for body X and another applier for head Y. And find the right applier slots on the head to use that tattoo with hairbase, lipstick, eyebrows and all other makeup. Or beard, for those who use it. Just find the tattoo with the tattoo layer symbol, click on it and add it. So simple.

Okay, this was my daily speak about how I love BOM.

How can we tall new people about this, so they understand? In my opinion, dropping the applier talk and using layers are way easier. And one can still use appliers with or without materials if one wishes too, combining both for those who want it. That can be the second step.

It is even a 1 L male and a free female body now, ready to use mesh. It is a one time job, turning on media and activate BOM. Then turn off media. You use the HUD again if you need to change feet, or you need to use the alpha in the HUD. These things are done without media.

To find clothes that fit, for a builder avatar or a sales representative avatar, that change only a few times a year, is easy. It is enough on the market, but not for the fashonista who shop every event and every weekend sale.

For @Prokofy Neva, this would be an even cheaper avatar.

It is faster to learn, and the library skins work.

Shorter learning curve.

Using the words BOM or Bakes on Mesh is perhaps complicating it. Saying: "A prettier body that let you use the skin you already wear" is easier to understand for new people?

But this is also a no Marketplace body. Knowing this when you start, is impossible. You need to meet someone who tell you about it. On Youtube, the majority of videos use Maitreya, Catwa, Legacy, Lelutka, Belleza, Signature et cetera.

 

I appreciate that you took the time to explain this and I will save it to study later but the bottom line is this: I do not want to have "layers", "appliers,"  etc. etc.

I do not view the avatar's appearance and clothing as like the layer method of the Old Masters' paintings.

I view it as on/off, the end.

It took way too long to buy feet so that I could fit my various 30L or gatcha shoes (talk about stupid, retro-fitting expensive things to cheap things) and to get the "socks" to apply. That pretty much finished me off on "layers" and "appliers". I do not want to be a wedding cake.

 

[Tolya Ugajin]

[Theresa Tennyson]

7 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I appreciate that you took the time to explain this and I will save it to study later but the bottom line is this: I do not want to have "layers", "appliers,"  etc. etc.

I do not view the avatar's appearance and clothing as like the layer method of the Old Masters' paintings.

I view it as on/off, the end.

It took way too long to buy feet so that I could fit my various 30L or gatcha shoes (talk about stupid, retro-fitting expensive things to cheap things) and to get the "socks" to apply. That pretty much finished me off on "layers" and "appliers". I do not want to be a wedding cake.

 

Theresa Tennyson sighs.

Bakes-on-Mesh layers are the exact same system clothing, etc.that you've always been using.

 

[Qie Niangao]

On 6/2/2020 at 12:37 PM, Lindal Kidd said:

@Marianne Little, that was a very nice explanation!  Would you care to:

1.  Give a creator name and/or a landmark to the free/$L1 BoM bodies?

2.  Discuss the possible problems involved with using legacy skins with mesh bodies?  For example, the white patches that a lot of older skins leave around fingernail areas.  Who are some good skin makers that don't have this issue?

I'll butt in here a bit. If you're familiar with making Omega appliers (I wasn't, but turns out it's really easy) you can convert any Omega-capable Mesh body to BOM just by painting it with the system BOM textures. After my Slink body upgraded to BOM (ages ago) I got so impatient with the mesh bodies my alts were using that I did this myself. None of this is as slick or render-efficient as the Slink body (recently updated again to make BOM even easier and nicer) but it's a way of getting some BOM experience without having to trash a mesh body that still hasn't updated. At this point, though, most bodies at least have such a BOM texture-painting solution already pre-packaged, if they don't offer it as a direct upgrade.

(A big downside of merely painting the BOM textures is that the mesh still carries all the many "onion skin" model layers, so it misses out on much of the rendering efficiency of BOM.)

For the problem with fingernails and toenails, visit Izzie's shop. I'm sure there are others (and, again, a certain mesh body creator supplies these with their BOM body model), but it's a pretty convenient fix. That said, though, many older skins (and clothes, and tattoos, and etc) were textured using the then-maximum baking resolution (512x512 if I recall correctly) so those look pretty rough compared to textures baked to the full 1024x1024 that's supported with BOM.

(In case it's a concern, these higher resolution textures do not accumulate to some bloated rendering nightmare: all the layers get baked together server-side so there's just one big texture per major avatar region, combining all the details from the layered components.)

[Arielle Popstar]

4 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Theresa Tennyson sighs.

Bakes-on-Mesh layers are the exact same system clothing, etc.that you've always been using.

 

And if it had been brought at the same time when mesh body parts came out,  it would have been a fairly simple transition for most but instead we had to loop around with rigged mesh, fitted mesh, Omega appliers and now finally full circle to BoM. In itself it is simple enough but the problem comes in with the different ways body and head creators have set them up. As an example it took me watching 2 different youtube videos to understand why a system top and pair of jeans would not apply to the clothing layer of the Lara 5.02 body when it worked fine on another mesh body. On one particular head, I am still suffering from brain freeze when attempting to decipher the instructions for when and where and what layer to use when putting on lipstick. In both those cases, it is the backwards compatibility that causes the complexity, not BoM itself.

There is also the increasing complexity of shopping, paying very careful attention to not only what an ad says, but doesn't say as there are now so many different options with their varying nuances. Twice this past weekend I bought items which in retrospect were not of the sort of fit I needed for the outfits I was putting together, because I did not read the advertisement closely enough.

I been around long enough and know enough of the nomenclature to muddle through eventually but the idea of recommending S/L to friends and having to teach them even the basics of shopping and dressing honestly makes me shudder.

 

[Qie Niangao]

13 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I been around long enough and know enough of the nomenclature to muddle through eventually but the idea of recommending S/L to friends and having to teach them even the basics of shopping and dressing honestly makes me shudder.

New user sees a product photo; wants their avatar to look like the photo. What are their chances of success?

How many layers of hurdles have we erected between that desire and its fulfillment?

[Amina Sopwith]

5 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

New user sees a product photo; wants their avatar to look like the photo. What are their chances of success?

How many layers of hurdles have we erected between that desire and its fulfillment?

And in addition: judgement, hostility and, in many cases, being forbidden from places until you get there.