Profiles

[Luna Bliss]

18 minutes ago, Orwar said:

The concept of 'the patriarchy' is the religious lunacy of this generation.

 

[kiramanell]

24 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

BTW, I see what you did there with you badge. That's so last week, dude.

Ok, you had me agreeing with you totally in paragraph one.

Then the whole tone of paragraph two, while I can understand a bit about why it is annoying to be analyzed, was a bit much. I do see some man bashing here, agreed. The last two sentences get back on track, but the "obsessed" part? I don't see any of this as being obsessive. The OP made an observation which seems to be accurate. She found it interesting and posed a question as to why her observation might be happening. People are responding conversationally which is a nice change from all the bickering. That's not being obsessive. I doubt anyone here has thought that much about it.

::: purrs, scratches the chair leg:::

 

Yep, the OP made an interesting observation. And some of the replies made me outright chuckle, cuz it's so true!  

[Gatogateau]

PS: I believe there is a patriarchy worldwide and that it is ultimately destructive.  That said, however, there's no way in hell I'm going to get into a debate/battle over it. There's no way a thread about "gender" ever ends well in the Forum, not in my memory anyway. Add it to the list of politics, religion, sex, pizza, chili, bunnies, kittens... well gosh, anything around here lately.

[kiramanell]

Just now, Gatogateau said:

PS: I believe there is a patriarchy worldwide and that it is ultimately destructive.  That said, however, there's no way in hell I'm going to get into a debate/battle over it. There's no way a thread about "gender" ever ends well in the Forum, not in my memory anyway. Add it to the list of politics, religion, sex, pizza, chili, bunnies, kittens... well gosh, anything around here lately.

 

*nods* So true! Like religion. Burned my sleek fingers on one of them religion threads, recently, and I wound up being toast. 😍

[kiramanell]

4 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

There's no way a thread about "gender" ever ends well in the Forum, not in my memory anyway. Add it to the list of politics, religion, sex, pizza, chili, bunnies, kittens... well gosh, anything around here lately.

 

^^ Oh yeah, I had forgotten: someone, the other day, managed to find fault with you being a kitten.  How can such a thing ever be?! I mean, lookit that face!

[Luna Bliss]

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Caer, Seicher, and Luna have already addressed this directly or indirectly, but I just want to reiterate, because words are important . . .

"Patriarchy" emphatically does not mean "men." It is a term that describes a central systemic element to our culture that's been around in the West anyway since at least the Middle Ages, and it victimizes men just as much as it victimizes women, albeit in very different ways. It compels and distorts behaviours and identity, and it structures the way in which power is distributed and justice meted out. And, again, it is in one sense at least "gender neutral": it doesn't emanate directly from "men" either as a collective or as individuals, and it is (as Caer so articulately put it) every bit as anxious to control men as it is to restrict women. Attacking patriarchy does not mean attacking "men": it means wanting to liberate them, as much as women, from the socialized restrictions that it has imposed. And, thank god, more and more men are getting that, and joining in the fight against it.

So, Orwar, in this context, let me be blunt: no one cares whether or not you give out hugs. We don't care if you have men "bffs" or "best mates" or "the lads at the gym" or whatever you want to call it. We are not sniffing around your profile and wondering why you are incapable of having a good cry. We just don't care; so long as any individual is not being abusive or toxic (and yes, women can certainly be those things too, often because of . . . patriarchy), we're fine with the "you be you" philosophy.

And that's because, however we might feel about you as an individual (and I personally like you), you are not what this is about. So dude, get over yourself; we're not attacking you or any other individual man, or even "men" as a gender construct. Chill: you're not personally under the microscope.

Ok . . .

What interests me most about the question implied in the OP is that we know that men do have "bffs" or the male equivalent thereof in RL. Men herding with men is a real thing: it happens in dozens of different contexts. And that's just fine, in and of itself. Women do the same thing: we have coffee klatches and slightly inebriated wine-soaked lunches; we go shopping together, and a whole variety of other things that have been socialized as "female."

What interests me is . . . why is this parallelism not also evident in SL? Why do men not hang together more? Why do they not have each other in their "picks" (Note: I have never had any of my friends in my picks either).

That's not an "attack" on men. Hell, it's not even an attack on patriarchy. I actually don't care if you, or anyone else, has your "best mate" in your picks. Whatever!

It's a question that arises from a simple observation that, in this regard anyway, masculine culture in SL differs from its articulations in RL.

[Luna Bliss]

17 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Attacking patriarchy does not mean attacking "men": it means wanting to liberate them, as much as women, from the socialized restrictions that it has imposed. And, thank god, more and more men are getting that, and joining in the fight against it.

I think the stereotype "Boys Don't Cry' is one of the most egregious, destructive, and oppressive stereotype that exists.

I still maintain that my elderly neighbor (whom I overheard correcting some boys making fun of another boy for crying), was one of the greatest feminists I ever witnessed.  She said to those boys (who were taunting the crying boy by chanting 'boys don't cry, boys don't cry)  that "boys sure do cry if they're hurt!"

[Scylla Rhiadra]

13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I think the stereotype "Boys Don't Cry' is one of the most egregious, destructive, and oppressive stereotype that exists.

I still maintain that my elderly neighbor (whom I overheard correcting some boys making fun of another boy for crying), was one of the greatest feminists I ever witnessed.  She said to those boys (who were taunting the crying boy by chanting 'boys don't cry, boys don't cry)  that "boys sure do cry if they're hurt!"

The point being, of course, not so much that "crying is good; you should do it more often!", but rather "if you need to cry, then you should feel free to do so."

I tear up a storm, although 99% of the time it's while I'm listening to a song that hits me emotionally, or reading a book, or watching a (generally bad) movie. I don't like crying when I'm upset or frustrated or angry -- and one of the reasons for that is that crying is viewed as weakness. But I also just don't like the feeling of having lost control that it gives me.

Were crying redefined, and "de-feminized," I wouldn't feel quite so crappy about bursting into tears in difficult situations. I probably still wouldn't want to do it, but I'd feel less disempowered when I do.

[Kathlen Onyx]

Really the term BFF wasn't literal. It could have been "buddy" "best bud" "friend".  So there was no hidden meaning in using BFF, just and example. 🙂  Interesting how this thread has gone.

[Luna Bliss]

17 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I don't like crying when I'm upset or frustrated or angry -- and one of the reasons for that is that crying is viewed as weakness. But I also just don't like the feeling of having lost control that it gives me.

Were crying redefined, and "de-feminized," I wouldn't feel quite so crappy about bursting into tears in difficult situations. I probably still wouldn't want to do it, but I'd feel less disempowered when I do.

Yes you bring up a good point - this strong proscription against men crying or "showing weakness" ends up oppressing women too.

And not only is it oppressive or uncomfortable not to be able to cry when needed, when one suppresses their pain they are unable to move through an experience and learn from it, develop awareness. Moving through a difficult situation is a process with stages (the stages of grief, one of them being 'feeling the pain and expressing it') one must deal thoroughly with in order to put it to rest, to move beyond it.

[Luna Bliss]

Talk about toxic masculinity, this movie reveals it in spades.  The murder took place not far from where I live:

 

[Seicher Rae]

Hm. I do use the term bff and last I looked I'm not a teen girl. I am quite immature, so that probably explains it. My bff is a grown man (much as he hates to admit it) and now that you mention it, I don't know how he refers to me to others, but I suspect it isn't as bff. Actually, that is rather worrisome now that I do think about it. Between the two of us "dude" comes up a lot.

I sometimes have people on my profile, sometimes not. Heavens, I think I have two right now, although one is kind of sideways. Maybe I'm shallow, but I like it when people put me on their profiles. It is rare. And I should clarify, I like it when I'm on profiles in a NICE way (it hasn't always been the case). One friend just put something so sweet on hers that it makes me tear up everytime I think about it. So for some of us the things aren't de rigeur. It seems to be customary in parts of the adult worlds I hang out in to put folks in profiles, and again, that feels rather nice when it happens.

It is fine if no one puts my name anywhere, even nicely. Like I said, I often don't mention others in my profile. It is all about me, me, me after all.

And this is only mildly on topic but I just felt like rambling because I'm work avoiding. 

[Seicher Rae]

1 hour ago, KateaSL said:

Really the term BFF wasn't literal. It could have been "buddy" "best bud" "friend".  So there was no hidden meaning in using BFF, just and example. 🙂  Interesting how this thread has gone.

Yeah, but it was to be expected. Not that there was anything wrong with your post! I think it was kind of interesting, and as much as I read profiles, which is a lot, I have never noticed the phenomenon, but you are correct. If you mention "girl" someone will get upset. If you mention "boys and girls" likewise. "Men and women" yup, you can be guaranteed someone's nose out of joint by 2/3 of the first page. "Men vs women" you'll be lucky to get even 1/2 page! "Why do (name one) do (something)?) and... you get the idea.

Usually in among all the hissing and harrumphing are some good points though and even some really funny pieces of humor.   Then the mods shut it down. 😐

[Pixie Kobichenko]

21 hours ago, KateaSL said:

I look at profiles like everyone else and one thing that I have noticed is that guys have a lot of Picks of women saying how this person is there BFF or they are their ride or die.  Women also do but they include women in that category as well.  I have never see a guy put in his picks how "john" is a great friend and BFF.  I wonder why that is?

I’ve seen guys list others as brothers- especially men who state they are military veterans.  A few times I’ve seen them list someone as a best friend.  I’m sure there are lots of reasons why guys don’t put another in their profile, or anyone at all for that matter.  Certainly a few would fall in the aforementioned “toxic masculinity” column, but I betcha loads of them just don’t deem it important to do the profile tab dedications.

[CaerolleClaudel]

10 hours ago, Seicher Rae said:

I like it when I'm on profiles in a NICE way (it hasn't always been the case). One friend just put something so sweet on hers that it makes me tear up everytime I think about it. So for some of us the things aren't de rigeur. It seems to be customary in parts of the adult worlds I hang out in to put folks in profiles, and again, that feels rather nice when it happens.

For the right price, I will put something about you in my profile that would put to shame the obsequious sycophancy that a certain world 'leader' requires of his underlings.

[Paul Hexem]

"Toxic masculinity" and "the patriarchy" have become such memes due to overuse (especially incorrectly), I don't blame Orwar for being out of patience.

At the end of the day, it's your profile, not your friend's profile. It should be about you, not them.

Maybe people with profiles about their friends and say nothing about themselves are just really boring people.

[Gatogateau]

12 hours ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

For the right price, I will put something about you in my profile that would put to shame the obsequious sycophancy that a certain world 'leader' requires of his underlings.

Seicher's pis5ed off at the Forum software right now, to the point of having to file a couple of tickets :::hiss::: but I haz some (nasty, health-food) kibble that I can give you. :::purrs:::

[ItHadToComeToThis]

My favourite is and always had been the SL bikers that will somehow “**** up your day if you mess with my woman’s”. Like, what are they going to do. Gnaw the ends of their keyboards and glare at the screens. Go sit yo chaps wearin ass down 😅😁