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Limited Availability of New Second Life Regions


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We have put a lot of thought in to the various things we can do with the mainland.  That included consideration for moving parcel owners around.  We decided that right now, with the pandemic and peopl

The problem has nothing to do with how SL scales; it's that we have only so many server boxes and so much space in our datacenter to put them in (our servers are located in a facility in Phoenix; none

Hey, what happened to the six running threads proclaiming the death of Second Life?

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57 minutes ago, fernynook said:

Wonderful news that Second Life is so popular and I feel so sorry for Linden Lab regarding the timing! 

There is another possibility for more regions; on the dashboard if you look under Land Manager / Mainland (which comes up as a Land tab) it shows the details of all land parcels owned by you alone (not owned by a group you may own) so if you previously owned a full region or homestead which went offline and when it went offline you had land parcels on it in only your avatar's name you may still see those land parcels listed.  If those land parcels are still listed then it might be possible for the region to be reactivated, even after a couple of years 😊

 

Unfortunately this would not be the case since we do not have the capacity to bring those regions back online.

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7 hours ago, ChinRey said:

If server capacity is the issue, have you considered reconfiguring some of the mostly empty mainland region to hmesteads with a 4.8 prim limit multiplier? That way the region should only require a quarter of the server capacity but the few residents there shuold still get exactly the same. In theory that is - I don't know if a homestead really only takes up a quarter of the server capacity of a full sim.

Of course, you could also do something similar if you are planning to create new Linden Home themes: A homestead with ten 1024 m2 parcels and 4.8 prim limit multipllirer. That still leaves 1300 prims for the base build - more than enough to fill up a region with houses, plants, roads, fences etc. Still assuming that a homestead really only takes up a quarter of a full sim's server capacaity, that would give you 40 housing units for the same server load that only gives you 24 now.

Yeah, I wonder this too. It would seem easier, though, to just do it to all the old Linden Homes continents at once, with an announcement that there are other options available if performance is less than satisfactory. I realize there are still folks actively using those old Linden Homes, and good for them, but I can't imagine there are any regions still packed to capacity.

Pretty sure there are also opportunities to reduce server load of older Linden/Mole content on those old Linden Homes regions; Moles may have some spare time now that there are no new continents to be Molified 'til autumn.

True, it could also be done to abandoned Mainland sims, one at a time, but that's a pain and would need to be reversible if settlers later populate the region. (I've seen this a lot recently, particularly on the Atoll.)

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1 hour ago, Patch Linden said:

 

Unfortunately this would not be the case since we do not have the capacity to bring those regions back online.

Thanks for clarifying on that idea Patch, I should have realised that since there can't be new regions it wouldn't be possible to reactivate 'dormant' offline regions 🙂

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7 hours ago, ChinRey said:

If server capacity is the issue, have you considered reconfiguring some of the mostly empty mainland region to hmesteads with a 4.8 prim limit multiplier? That way the region should only require a quarter of the server capacity but the few residents there shuold still get exactly the same. In theory that is - I don't know if a homestead really only takes up a quarter of the server capacity of a full sim.

Of course, you could also do something similar if you are planning to create new Linden Home themes: A homestead with ten 1024 m2 parcels and 4.8 prim limit multipllirer. That still leaves 1300 prims for the base build - more than enough to fill up a region with houses, plants, roads, fences etc. Still assuming that a homestead really only takes up a quarter of a full sim's server capacaity, that would give you 40 housing units for the same server load that only gives you 24 now.

A 1k parcel on a homestead gets you 78 prims. The multiplier to get to 351 is 4.5. For ten homes, that means 3510 prims allocated to residents, leaving 1490 for the Moles to use for landscaping and houses. Houseboats look to average 200 prims per boat, so with them 7 of the 10 parcels get a boat. That leaves 90 prims for everything else (and 3 upset tenants).

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18 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

A 1k parcel on a homestead gets you 78 prims. The multiplier to get to 351 is 4.5.

You're right. I was thinking 370 prims for each home owner. That may eb a bit too generous. ;)

  

18 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

Houseboats look to average 200 prims per boat, so with them 7 of the 10 parcels get a boat.

But that's unoptimized mesh. It's easy to make a house or houseboat like the ones at Bellisseria at 50 LI, probably as low as 20 for the houseboats and 30 for the houses.

I do see Oz' point that this isn't the right time to make such changes though.

Edit: Also, I'm not sure how the server side load for homesteads are compared to hull regions. They are supposed to be 1/4 of the load but I only know how to reduce the load factors we have info about in the viewer (that is land impact, assets server load, physics cost, streaming cost and render cost). There may be other factors only LL knows about. Maybe Oz can tell us?

 

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8 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

With optimized mesh it's easy to make one at 50 LI - probably as low as 30 even.

By the time they've created those the simulators will be on the cloud and it won't matter (to LL) any more. Bellisseria is built on 1024x1024 textures too. I looked at flowers from their content pack. A 1024x1024 texture for the flowers themselves, another texture that size for the stems and leaves. Even the textures for trim pieces are 1024s as well. They're not close to optimized content yet.

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2 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

By the time they've created those the simulators will be on the cloud and it won't matter (to LL) any more.

Well, cloud hosting isn't exactly free either. ;)

But that's LL's problem, not ours.

 

7 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

They're not close to optimized content yet.

Time for another round of pictures of trees. ;)

Now, I'll just link to an earlier post I wrote:

And yes, I didn't mention it in that post but the first tree there is from Bellisseria. It's the same with all Mole builds btw, not just the trees.

To be fair (only Patch can answer this) it may be a budget question. The Bellisseria trees seem to be auto-generated by Tree[d] so it's only a few minutes of work. It does take a few hours to make handmade tree with optimized LoD and physics models and time is money.

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I see that work is continuing in the Belli development (SSP) area on the (probable) new "pink" Bellisseria theme.  But, I suppose this region crunch implies that no buildout will be created for a new Belli theme until after the cloud migration is complete? 

Will there be no new Belli regions at all until then?  Or perhaps some were already set aside to "finish off" the raw northern edge of the Log Home subcontinent, for example?  The moles still have quite a bit of work remaining to fill in the existing SSPE regions on the Log Home subcontinent, of course, which presumably will make some more homes available in already existing themes.

This is a great problem to have!  Welcome, SL class of 2020!

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11 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Yeah, I wonder this too. It would seem easier, though, to just do it to all the old Linden Homes continents at once, with an announcement that there are other options available if performance is less than satisfactory. I realize there are still folks actively using those old Linden Homes, and good for them, but I can't imagine there are any regions still packed to

Pretty sure there are also opportunities to reduce server load of older Linden/Mole content on those old Linden Homes regions; Moles may have some spare time now that there are no new continents to be Molified 'til autumn.

Blue text - Is it official, no more development of Bellisseria until autumn?

It is tempting to say Linden Lab could clean all the old Linden Homes continents at once. But it is too late, if LL mean to honor the promise that all Premiums can have a Linden Home. It is no more left. I can compare such an injustice, to LL making a decision that they will allow only one Linden Home per email, and then take back the other homes we have on alts. (No, I don't suggest they do it!) But we would feel violated if LL took away one of our homes. It is the biggest and most important reason to be pay Premium for me, and surely for many others. The other perks is just nice to have.

LL is too late, they should have started to offer new homes to owners in the old regions in 2019. But it is all so easy to look back, in hindsight it is perfectly clear.

LL would also had to have a system where those who abandoned an old home was bypassing the ordinary Home Page and was sent to a page only for them, where LL made sure it was first come, first serve, and abandoned Bellisseria homes was sent there first.

In many countries over the world, the lockdowns start to open up, and as I understand it, states in USA will also begin with it. So the question is also, will this surge in new residents, and demand for land, cool down in a month?

 

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14 hours ago, CassandraLynne Cloud said:

Alright.. So any Residents Selling Regions? Haha I was just about to purchase two. if anyone is selling HMU !!

great time for them to get some money... :SwingingFriends:

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54 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Blue text - Is it official, no more development of Bellisseria until autumn?

It is tempting to say Linden Lab could clean all the old Linden Homes continents at once.

First, no, I have no idea how much Bellisseria development can proceed using only sim hardware that's already committed. I bet there are ongoing Mole projects on existing Belli sims that can continue, but I'm also guessing there were plans to develop new regions that will be on hold (at least for deployment) until ☁️Uplift☁️ is complete.

And just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting removing any old Linden Homes continents! But I'll bet there are very few that are used as much as 1/4 capacity -- or, put another way, are anything like as busy as the average Estate Homestead region -- so stacking them 4 to the core should be barely noticeable while freeing up several hundred regions-worth of server hardware.

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1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

First, no, I have no idea how much Bellisseria development can proceed using only sim hardware that's already committed. I bet there are ongoing Mole projects on existing Belli sims that can continue, but I'm also guessing there were plans to develop new regions that will be on hold (at least for deployment) until ☁️Uplift☁️ is complete.

And just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting removing any old Linden Homes continents! But I'll bet there are very few that are used as much as 1/4 capacity -- or, put another way, are anything like as busy as the average Estate Homestead region -- so stacking them 4 to the core should be barely noticeable while freeing up several hundred regions-worth of server hardware.

Ah, I think I understand what you mean, even if I don't understand how, technically. Free unused resources sound great, but I can't understand it. No, I did not really think you suggested removing homes, other than playing with ideas, as we all do.

 

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1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

And just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting removing any old Linden Homes continents! But I'll bet there are very few that are used as much as 1/4 capacity

I did a quick check of two regions, a Meadowbrooks one that has an occupancy rate of about 65% and a Shareta Osumai with about 50%. That surprised me, I expected it to be higher.

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At the present, we're not going to be looking at any sort of down-sizing, rebuilding or re-configuring of the old Linden Homes regions.   Work has not stopped on the new Linden Homes either.  We have a good bit of runway to continue the build and release of the already present themes and regions to carry us through without adding any new regions.   We will also continue to work on the upcoming themes at full speed ahead to get them ready for future release.  

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3 hours ago, Patch Linden said:

At the present, we're not going to be looking at any sort of down-sizing, rebuilding or re-configuring of the old Linden Homes regions.   Work has not stopped on the new Linden Homes either.  We have a good bit of runway to continue the build and release of the already present themes and regions to carry us through without adding any new regions.   We will also continue to work on the upcoming themes at full speed ahead to get them ready for future release.  

Yay

 

Quite a few "Easter Eggs" on the old LH regions.

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7 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

And just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting removing any old Linden Homes continents! But I'll bet there are very few that are used as much as 1/4 capacity -- or, put another way, are anything like as busy as the average Estate Homestead region -- so stacking them 4 to the core should be barely noticeable while freeing up several hundred regions-worth of server hardware.

This is an intriguing idea, do you know if they've done or even tested 4 regions/core before?   If not, I would think that even though creating this configuration might be really REALLY easy, validating it to go live would be time consuming.  Identifying and testing possible bottlenecks when accessing shared resources ... hmmm.  If that would need to involve any of the same people working on the cloud port, I can't see them trying it.

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53 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

This is an intriguing idea, do you know if they've done or even tested 4 regions/core before? 

That's how Homesteads are stacked, as I understand it. Otherwise I might have suggested just 2 per core, to be conservative, but ChinRey was I think wise to suggest the known commodity, Homesteads, and just artificially boost the Object Bonus to cover for a full region's land impact potentially rezzed-out. There's presumably some sim-side cost to having lots of stuff rezzed, but it can't be all that much (unless it's doing active Physics). Anyway, it's all apparently academic, and if they don't really need to free up hardware for expansion it's surely less effort to just leave existing sims running on existing configurations.

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Posted (edited)

I have had the same homestead region over one year that I leased from one of the long time 3rd party Land Barons this time last year.  I pay a bit over 6k per week for it... but what bothers me is after this announcement from LL... is that all 3rd party land barons have now suddenly RAISED their tier prices dramatically and are now price gouging.  My landlord company went up over 1000 a week in less than 4 weeks for homesteads....and the chungs... they have raised their homestead tiers since this announcement from 7599 week to 8999 a week... same land, same amount of prims.  The significant sudden drop in the value of Linden money recently from around 270per dollar  to 258 per dollar...and falling... makes me highly suspicious and curious about the orchestration and the timing on all of this.
In business as many know there are three ways to create profit... sell more...  make cuts someplace or create artificial shortage of something... anything.... which then adds value to what " IS STILL " available... and then prices get raised.  Supply and demand. Nothing new, the knowledge is thousand years old at least.  

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7 minutes ago, Blake1111Coverdale said:

I have had the same homestead region over one year that I leased from one of the long time 3rd party Land Barons this time last year.  I pay a bit over 6k per week for it... but what bothers me is after this announcement from LL... is that all 3rd party land barons have now suddenly RAISED their tier prices dramatically and are now price gouging.  My landlord company went up over 1000 a week in less than 4 weeks for homesteads....and the chungs... they have raised their homestead tiers since this announcement from 7599 week to 8999 a week... same land, same amount of prims.  The significant sudden drop in the value of Linden money recently from around 270per dollar  to 258 per dollar...and falling... makes me highly suspicious and curious about the orchestration and the timing on all of this. Just my observation..  

When there is no demand, they have to lower their prices to attract people.  I suppose it is only fair that they raise them back up when demand increases.

The renter might not like it, but that is basically how Supply & Demand works.

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One is free to shop for alternative arrangements. Maybe the Mainland's disadvantages aren't that disadvantageous.

I'm guessing other Estates also have some spare Homesteads at better rates... but this is all pushing in the direction of LL offering Homesteads to mere Premium accounts. Just stand in the way of expansion, Estate owners, and watch what happens.

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1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

One is free to shop for alternative arrangements. Maybe the Mainland's disadvantages aren't that disadvantageous.

I'm guessing other Estates also have some spare Homesteads at better rates... but this is all pushing in the direction of LL offering Homesteads to mere Premium accounts. Just stand in the way of expansion, Estate owners, and watch what happens.

You know the demand for homesteads would be high, so why would LL make homesteads available to premium accounts when they don't have the servers to host them? Maybe in the fall or winter when they manage to get the simulators in the cloud.

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On 5/14/2020 at 9:19 PM, Asadora Summers said:

But regardless of reasons, it's good to see more people having attention again in SL, but don't be surprised if more than half of them end up considering SL the 'new' Adult Friend Finder. 

🤣

Only half of them? Also, when did SL stop being the Adult Friend Finder?

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2 hours ago, Blake1111Coverdale said:

I have had the same homestead region over one year that I leased from one of the long time 3rd party Land Barons this time last year.  I pay a bit over 6k per week for it... but what bothers me is after this announcement from LL... is that all 3rd party land barons have now suddenly RAISED their tier prices dramatically and are now price gouging.  My landlord company went up over 1000 a week in less than 4 weeks for homesteads....and the chungs... they have raised their homestead tiers since this announcement from 7599 week to 8999 a week... same land, same amount of prims.  The significant sudden drop in the value of Linden money recently from around 270per dollar  to 258 per dollar...and falling... makes me highly suspicious and curious about the orchestration and the timing on all of this.
In business as many know there are three ways to create profit... sell more...  make cuts someplace or create artificial shortage of something... anything.... which then adds value to what " IS STILL " available... and then prices get raised.  Supply and demand. Nothing new, the knowledge is thousand years old at least.  

Only rent from the chungs as a last resort. They have locked in special, cheaper rates than anyone else gets, Grandfathered tiers they pay to LL that don't change.

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1 hour ago, Parhelion Palou said:

You know the demand for homesteads would be high, so why would LL make homesteads available to premium accounts when they don't have the servers to host them? Maybe in the fall or winter when they manage to get the simulators in the cloud.

Yes, but there are ways for them to free-up hosts and split them differently if there's margin enough in it. Not to mention the Estate Homesteads that would become available when tenants can get their own, stand alone Homestead.

They won't do any of this unless the Estates overplay their hands and make it necessary for the Lab to offer an option that retains Homestead users who won't pay pandemic profiteer prices set by colluding Estates. If it comes to that, I mean.

(But think about it: who else can enforce anti-trust here? And who else stands to lose from anti-competitive practices? besides the customers, of course.)

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