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How do you feel if strangers come into your SL home unexpectedly?


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I dislike it intensely.  I expect people to treat my home in SL as they would my home in RL, and if they don't then they receive my opinion on it.

My orb kicks their ass.

If my orb doesn't get them, I will. I love to launch people into orbit. 

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Nope, not interested in having strangers inside my house.  My land is free to walk, but i don't tell people where I live unless they are close friends.  Strangers aren't welcome inside my house. Basic manners.  If the doors closed and no one invited you, don't go in.

If I'm using it, I don't really want visitors other than those I invited.  Anyone just hanging around?  Well, that would creep me out.  There's plenty empty space in SL. If you want an empty space, go find one.  You want a house, you pay rent. I pay rent.  I pay for being premium.  I am not gonna facilitate your squatting.  And I'm not interested in stalkers.  Not fun.

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On 5/13/2020 at 3:27 PM, Moira Timmerman said:

Back during my first year, I rented a parcel in Bay City for awhile and it must have been not to far from where a lot of newcomers congregated, because it was not uncommon to have some 1 or 2 day old avatar come walking through my house.  I remember sitting in my living room one day watching this 1 day old guy in my kitchen clicking on everything.  Unfortunately for him, nothing was scripted in that particular kitchen.  After a bit, he gave up and wandered off.  I think that was the parcel where I eventually put out some little 'private residence' signs. 

agree

this happens quite often with brand new people

with parcel boundaries being turned off by default in the viewer then new people often just wander all over where ever their curiosity takes them

the concept of private vs public spaces in virtual environments is a learned behaviour. When there is no apparent obstacle to being in a space (like banlines, sec orb warnings or a sign) then the perceived permission (the expectation) is that it is ok for them to be there. The concept of private in a virtual space is not a perception that new people intuitively have, the perception is that it is public unless specified or informed otherwise

 

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4 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I hope you're on your own homestead or island so that you don't annoy everyone around you.

 

Yep, I am that spoiled lil rich girl, with her own homestead. :) (Not that they're all that expensive, really). Anyway, nobody gets in, unless I specifically allow them.

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8 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I hope you're on your own homestead or island so that you don't annoy everyone around you.

Eh. I'm on mainland but orbs don't have to be like that. Mine doesn't extend past the walls of my house (except above and below), all the outdoor parts of the parcel (which is significantly bigger than the house) are outside of the orb's range. My warning time is 30 seconds, that should be enough for a person on the slowest, laggiest computer to get themselves out of range. And it only ejects to the border of the parcel, not teleporting home.

So, sure, if you want to sit on my beach or rez your boat here, you can. And if you're just sailing through, you'd never even notice (until you crash into next-door's dock).

 

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4 hours ago, Mollymews said:

agree

this happens quite often with brand new people

with parcel boundaries being turned off by default in the viewer then new people often just wander all over where ever their curiosity takes them

the concept of private vs public spaces in virtual environments is a learned behaviour. When there is no apparent obstacle to being in a space (like banlines, sec orb warnings or a sign) then the perceived permission (the expectation) is that it is ok for them to be there. The concept of private in a virtual space is not a perception that new people intuitively have, the perception is that it is public unless specified or informed otherwise

 

I blame LL for not educating people about this. I will admit i had no idea initially. I don't like yellow lines and dont erect them. I do have a private sign on the edge of my property. People who pass through the land as they explore (often from the non sign side) don't bother me. Misbehavior is met by immediate banning, which also ejects them from my land.

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Random people walking into my home hasn't really happened to me yet. I guess I would initially just be suprised to see someone wandering around. I don't mind people, who take a look at my parcel, as long as they are respectful and kind.

What annoys me more are people, who you have just befriended and invited over to your place and then they take that as an invitiation to _always_ hang around your place.

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7 hours ago, Lewis Luminos said:

Eh. I'm on mainland but orbs don't have to be like that. Mine doesn't extend past the walls of my house (except above and below), all the outdoor parts of the parcel (which is significantly bigger than the house) are outside of the orb's range. My warning time is 30 seconds, that should be enough for a person on the slowest, laggiest computer to get themselves out of range. And it only ejects to the border of the parcel, not teleporting home.

So, sure, if you want to sit on my beach or rez your boat here, you can. And if you're just sailing through, you'd never even notice (until you crash into next-door's dock).

 

Yes, it is possible on many if not all orbs to set a range and a time and a type (eject or send home) yet few people bother and profess learned helplessness on this score. 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Mollymews said:

agree

this happens quite often with brand new people

with parcel boundaries being turned off by default in the viewer then new people often just wander all over where ever their curiosity takes them

the concept of private vs public spaces in virtual environments is a learned behaviour. When there is no apparent obstacle to being in a space (like banlines, sec orb warnings or a sign) then the perceived permission (the expectation) is that it is ok for them to be there. The concept of private in a virtual space is not a perception that new people intuitively have, the perception is that it is public unless specified or informed otherwise

 

I'd have to disagree with this. Most people port their behaviours, innate or learned, from real life and replicate them. The whole reason that people have houses in Second Life instead of giant trees (Foolish Frost made one for the land preserve) or giant cactuses (someone made me one once) and don't behave like the avian creatures they in fact are is because they behave like humans. It's not like something magical happens because they go online, far from it.

Locked doors don't keep out anyone who knows the sit hack, which is usually most people over 90 days old. But most people in fact accept that you can't walk into a house and in fact don't. It's a minority of people doing this who are just generally clueless, oblivious, rude, and grabby. That describes the younger millennial generation in part but not even all of them.

I encourage people to use visitor trackers if they believe they have a regular invader, then they can ban them. And then the list shows not hundreds and not ten but one former disgruntled ex or something like that. Most people do not invade homes. They have manners. They were not brought up in a barn -- or on the Internet. 

Once I landed at the infohub in Ross which is a resident content Linden infohub I manage (there are about 10 of these from the old days). A newbie hissed at me, "Get out of my house! Get out of my house!" Unable to find or use any weapons she just kept hissing at me and pushing me. I explained to her that she had gone to an infohub after the welcome island -- they used to be randomly sent to them. And that it was a public place, not just "her house" which she assumed she got merely for making an account -- and not even a premium account. Entitlement attitudes are HUGE in some. But most people are decent.

I could point out a certain sim where a large establishment catering to the Linux cult is nearby. The Linux penguins wander all over and even build inside or around other people's houses because they think everything should be "free". There is a welcome and help island nearby so there are a fair number of newbies. Most stay on the road; some even ask if these are people's houses and how do you get them. If the default behaviour of hordes of people was to roam freely through everyone's houses, I could never manage to have rentals on those sims but I  have for years.

 

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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It's always strangely exciting to have strangers insist on you that they own your home, tossing insults at you, ... before you freeze them, rez funny stuff around them and point and laugh at them, before booting and banning them.

I don't mind people flying by, due to the airport and a Golf sim next door. It's ok if friends bring friends. But if you act like a horrible guest, your stay will be of the same kind.

It got a bit weird when some anthro group must have decided that my friend's bedroom was their new group dwelling... or exercising spot with varying partners. At least they left some tips when I rezzed a tipjar with hovertext saying, "Please help keeping the sheets clean for everyone xxx the Houseowners".
 

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My main house is in Iris, near the infohub and SL Public Land Preserve. I get a lot of people wandering in if I am on the ground. I find it quite nice, chatting with unexpected people, many of whom are in SL for the first time. I try to help them out if they need it. My skybox has an orb though. On the odd occasion when I have been working on a platform way up in the sky, minding my own business, and suddenly someone appears on top of my head, I do think that is a bit rude and it usually isn't brand new people who do that either. But on the ground, especially on the mainland, I don't have an expectation of privacy.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, DeepBlueJoy said:

I blame LL for not educating people about this. I will admit i had no idea initially. I don't like yellow lines and dont erect them. I do have a private sign on the edge of my property. People who pass through the land as they explore (often from the non sign side) don't bother me.

i agree that Linden could make some informational changes to the viewer

possibly making LDPW and Governor Linden parcel boundaries show in a color of its own, thereby marking public land to be more clearly distinguishable from private land when boundaries are turned on

another marker could be in the viewer address bar.  LDPW and Governor Linden owned land to have a text tag: Public land:  All other parcels tagged in the address bar as Private land

edit add: this could be extended to private estates as well, as a estate control.  Parcels owned by this account (or accounts) are tagged Public. All other parcels owned by other accounts are tagged Private

Edited by Mollymews
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23 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

i agree that Linden could make some informational changes to the viewer

possibly making LDPW and Governor Linden parcel boundaries show in a color of its own, thereby marking public land to be more clearly distinguishable from private land when boundaries are turned on

another marker could be in the viewer address bar.  LDPW and Governor Linden owned land to have a text tag: Public land:  All other parcels tagged in the address bar as Private land

edit add: this could be extended to private estates as well, as a estate control.  Parcels owned by this account (or accounts) are tagged Public. All other parcels owned by other accounts are tagged Private

This makes so much sense. I totally agree

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On 5/13/2020 at 8:52 AM, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

These sort of threads re: privacy always devolve into a few folks feeling morally superior about how "welcoming" they are.

Generosity is morally superior to selfishness. Period. Selfishness isn't even the right word, because the person who carefully guards her house with a security orb gains noting; she only makes' others' lives worse while not making her own better. Maybe meanspiritedness is the right word? In any case, SL is quite different from RL in that visitors cannot damage your SL property and cannot harm the SL you, so there is no reason to keep them out other than that you just enjoy being meanspirited.

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4 hours ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

Generosity is morally superior to selfishness. Period.

it could be if they were the opposite of eachother... and it isn't.

If you state it this way you also should ad what morals, from who, and when .. for example, mine and Caligula's morals are not really the same...

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4 hours ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

Generosity is morally superior to selfishness. Period. Selfishness isn't even the right word, because the person who carefully guards her house with a security orb gains noting; she only makes' others' lives worse while not making her own better. Maybe meanspiritedness is the right word? In any case, SL is quite different from RL in that visitors cannot damage your SL property and cannot harm the SL you, so there is no reason to keep them out other than that you just enjoy being meanspirited.

 

There are so many things wrong with your post, I'm too tired to list them all. What you call 'meanspiritedness' (I literally Rolled on the Floor Laughing at that one), I just call the right of 'self-determination.' I owe you nothing. If I like you, I'll allow you to be on my island. If not, I don't. You don't pay my rent. I guard it at my whim, and I open the doors when it suits me -- neither out of selfishness, nor because of altruism, but simply because I feel like it. Period.

And what you calll 'generosity' is just your thinly-veiled self-entitlement: the idea that you are owed a welcome on other people's land. And THAT, my dear, is selfishness.

And now I'm upset.

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5 hours ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

the person who carefully guards her house with a security orb gains noting; she only makes' others' lives worse while not making her own better.

The person does gain something: Privacy, peace, solitude etc. And its their right to obtain those benefits, because they are the one paying for the parcel. Its literally nobody elses business. If I pay for a plot of land, nobody elses life gets worse. My land is nobodies business. I'm not taking away something from them. They did, at no point in time, posess a universal right to go wherever they want to.

Instead demanding that the land owner restricts themselves is a selfish, egocentric position. You demand something outside of what belongs to you or should belong to you.

5 hours ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

Maybe meanspiritedness is the right word?

There is nothing meanspirited about wanting to be left alone.

5 hours ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

In any case, SL is quite different from RL in that visitors cannot damage your SL property and cannot harm the SL you

They can't physically harm you, thats true, but that is only half of the picture. The other half is, again, privacy. In RL we don't just live in our own homes, because we fear damage from outside, but because we want to. I don't distrust my neighbours, but I don't leave my door open and put up something infront of my windows.

You sound irrational right now. What you say is the SL equivalent to my neighbour across the street demanding a tour of my apartment and calling me selfish for refusing or claiming his life just got worse, because my curtains block his view into my livingroom and he can't see what I'm watching on TV anymore.

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I make no apologies to anyone for wanting ONE space in my life where I can do precisely as I please, unmolested by anyone or anything not of my choosing.

My second life home is one place I know I can do as I please and be at peace.  I don't apologize for it and won't compromise on it.

I come to Second Life because I find something here I don't in 'real' life.  A chance to create for myself spaces that belong completely to me, that reflect me and that feel safe.  A lot of introverts gravitate to Second Life.  We draw energy from our alone time.  For some, it's in collecting endless tchotchkes. For some it is meeting like minded individuals.  For some it's decorating our own idiosyncratic space exactly as we wish...  or just sitting on a beach or in a sky build where we can surround ourself by whatever we want... and avoid what we don't want.

Why should we have to answer to someone -- anyone -- else for this?  We should not.  It is not mean.  It's not entitled.  It's entitlement of the worst sort that people who don't pay anything think they should be able to come into my space -- and yes, it is MY space -- and have sex, change clothes, entertain friends -- and be abusive when they are discovered. 

I was changing my clothes in my ATTIC of my very first house, when I was very, very new to SL... when someone dropped through the roof.  The ground floor was nice and open... but they didn't come through the door.  They came thru the roof... Into my bedroom.  Where I was stark naked. Fortunately, I was on a Faery Crossing sim, and I called for help... and the fae arrived en masse.  Never had I felt so cared for. 

When I'd been bullied, when I'd been sexually abused, when my abusive ex had hurt me until there was little left of my self, there was NO ONE standing with me.  It was a small incident and yes, it was just my pixel body that was exposed.  But the psychological effect of that could have been so different... yes, I suppose I could have run from MY house and never gone back, if he'd taken his business out and menaced my pixels... but thankfully, it did not get to that.  I actually did dress and tp outside, leaving him inside MY home, but I didn't have to wonder if I'd be safe.

I know of at least TWO people who've been pixel raped by people who ran scripts on them that they could not get loose from.  Yes, they both ended up shutting down the ugly spectacle of watching their pixel bodies being tied down and had sex with... but frankly, as in real life, both were so startled (and so new) that initially they didn't think to do that... they tried to get away... and found they could not. 

One thing I know as an abuse survivor... it's NOT THE PHYSICAL ABUSE THAT LEAVES THE SCARS.  NO scar is so huge as feeling helpless, useless, violated, and unable to control anything.  You feel unworthy, unclean, and TO BLAME.  You feel stupid. You KNOW that you're never actually truly safe in the world, and that NEVER EVER EVER goes away.  EVER.  (6x10^23)

SL is not inherently dangerous or inherently benign.  It reflects the worlds we all come from and in some ways a lot more brutally because people are (a) more themselves (b) know they can hide behind pixels to perpetrate behavior that is heinous in any format.

I always laugh when people tell me that they're entitled to what is mine.  Because in the real world, those people always protect what is theirs.  They want to have free access to my tiny corner of the world AND yet, what is theirs is also theirs.  Sorry, as we say where I come from 'nutting no go so!'

I am as liberal and free as the day is long... open even.  I don't mind people sitting on my beach when I'm not there... though I do prefer not having to ask them to leave when I arrive wanting to be alone... or when I tp onto my land after a wardrobe malfunction... to find a couple copulating on my front lawn... because I have 'no see em, no hear em' turned on.  Just... A world of no!  I don't actually feel i need to explain to you why I don't want to have to ask permission to use my own land... yet, that is what it comes to when people don't respect my space, and particularly, my house.

As I said, I've never put up yellow lines... so i don't try to make life difficult for others. I found myself booted enough times when I was young and clueless, and discovering flying, to be thoroughly irritated by orbs that don't give you enough time to even react and go elsewhere before you find yourself in an adult hub with a bunch of scary, often naked people... because old-timers have houses, but newbies have nowhere to go, and NO clue they're doing something wrong until they end up in adult hub hell.

As a very smart person said earlier, I believe Linden needs to demarcate private vs public estates clearly. 

But no, I don't want anyone in my house without my express permission, EVER.  I prefer if people who are walking or flying just pass through and don't hang around, but I don't (and hope I never have to) put up barriers.  But I do understand why the people who've had creepy stalkers hanging around them and making alts to stalk them do put up crazy security.  It's unpleasant, but sometimes it's a reaction to having would be pixel rapists fall through your roof.

I'm here for my own sanity and joy.  I need to feel safe here.  I create spaces for this and I don't need to apologize to you for not letting you into my bubble bath, my bedroom, or my PAID FOR pixel space.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Jennifer Boyle said:
On 5/13/2020 at 8:52 AM, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

These sort of threads re: privacy always devolve into a few folks feeling morally superior about how "welcoming" they are.

Generosity is morally superior to selfishness. Period. Selfishness isn't even the right word, because the person who carefully guards her house with a security orb gains noting; she only makes' others' lives worse while not making her own better. Maybe meanspiritedness is the right word? In any case, SL is quite different from RL in that visitors cannot damage your SL property and cannot harm the SL you, so there is no reason to keep them out other than that you just enjoy being meanspirited.

Selfishness is taking more than one needs - someone who lacks consideration for others. An emotional need for privacy, for a separation from others for periods of time, is not selfish or taking more than one needs -- it is necessary and healthy. You are the selfish one, assigning pejorative labels to those who experience SL differently from how you want to experience it and making no effort to consider what others might need. It's beyond selfish what you are doing really...it's emotional theft. It's abusive. "If you don't give me what I want you are selfish", is what you're saying to others.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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2 hours ago, kiramanell said:

And now I'm upset.

I am upset too...how many times have we been told (especially women) that having needs of your own, or space, is selfish?

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7 hours ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

Generosity is morally superior to selfishness. Period. Selfishness isn't even the right word, because the person who carefully guards her house with a security orb gains noting; she only makes' others' lives worse while not making her own better. Maybe meanspiritedness is the right word? In any case, SL is quite different from RL in that visitors cannot damage your SL property and cannot harm the SL you, so there is no reason to keep them out other than that you just enjoy being meanspirited.

 

e455d75d88fa0f690c65f9b5fcf0e656.jpg

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Well, we've pretty much established that the two camps for this issue haven't changed their minds.

Thanks for coming, everybody, we'll have to do it again soon!

Fortunately, those of us who want privacy have ways of ensuring it.  Those who've an opinion they should be able to trample our peace can be excluded and if they cry selfish, I will simply laugh, and change my pixel clothes unmolested.  The attitudes that have been demonstrated are further evidence that our need for privacy and controls is real.  I'm not interested in proving that I'm better or superior or right.  I just intend to police my personal space.  What others do in their space, in public spaces, of which there are many and empty... i have no objection nor opinion.  I will not allow them to have objection or opinion to what I want to be able to do inside the boundaries of my paid for personal space, digital or otherwise.

I think at least part of the divide is between those who have opinions on whether this is real or not real.  Those of us who experience this as a personal environment and not 'merely' a game, feel protective of 'our' space.  Those who say 'it's just pixels' believe they have a right to move freely... even if other people put time and effort into spaces they want to enjoy. 

The interesting thing about this is that ALL life is a chemical process and all EXPERIENCE is in our minds.  So what is real and what is unreal is very murky.  How we feel when someone violates us here is not that different from when it happens in the physical world.  This is because our ego, our emotions, our mind... the chemical processes that we undergo when we have any experiences... they all occur wherever we are.  We cannot leave them behind.  Therefore, we can be hurt here... even if 'damage' is 'off'. 

And since I won't solve the internet today... I'm gonna go off and live in the dangerousness of that other world for a bit.  After all, it's that world that pays for my internet.  In SL I may some day make the money I need to sustain that... which tells me there's 'real' here, even if SL money won't make me rich. Forums such as this can be a place for exchange and we can all learn from each other, if we're willing... but I cannot fix you and you cannot fix me.  And that is (probably) a really good thing!! 😜

Edited by DeepBlueJoy
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