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This was created from two other discussions to outline suggested changes to the forums...to create a better shared user space.

1.Removal of the reputation points system

2.Expansion of the Emojis (Only if a user can be allowed to not see them from someone they blocked)

3.OP of a thread should be able to have the ability to close it or lock a thread after they think its served its purpose or it had unintended side effects.

4.Time limit replies to any specific thread or and limited posts per day in general to certain sections or topics.

5.Remove Advisor and other ruminate titles carried over from past forum incarnates

 three types Resident, Linden,Viewer Developer. and possible subtitles for premium members and as a ‘Creator Package’

6. Monetize some classifieds or Add enhanced abilities  from premium membership.

7. Moves the peoples forum to the bottom of the website while moving the Answers Section to the top and add more restrictions to the general section in regards to topics.

8. Linden Lab may have a difficult time and understandable time controlling inworld events, the forum on the other hand should be the exception and a safe zone for everyone, so similar standards used by employers, the spirit of those policies should reflect on for customers as well.

 

I will add to this list as time moves forwards, I'd love to hear more of others opinions and suggestions. If your fearful of any social reprisal from your peers here for interaction with me, please send me a notecard and I'll post that as an anonymous comment to protect your privacy and safety here.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:

If your fearful of any social reprisal from your peers here for interaction with me, please send me a notecard and I'll post that as an anonymous comment to protect your privacy and safety here.

What?

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

What?

I have witnessed others tell people not to talk to me several times, that comment was clarified so no one would face any peer reprisals for adding to the discussion or adding an emojis.

Point was for If they felt they needed to.

I understand not everyone wants to be put in a situation that would make them uncomfortable or having a posting experience made difficult for expression of a viewpoint, so point was made to notecard me in private, taken into consideration the message system here has never worked for me.

Edited by Sassy Kenin
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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

What?

Thanks for responding and sharing your thoughts, Luna.🤗

I will check back later for comments , Have a great day!🙂

Edited by Sassy Kenin
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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:
22 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

What?

I have witnessed others tell people not to talk to me several times, that comment was clarified so no one would face any peer reprisals for adding to the discussion or adding an emojis.

Point was for If they felt they needed to.

If you're referring to a time I saw someone recommend not responding to you it was when you were being pretty argumentative -- like you wanted to fight.  It usually is best to just ignore someone in that kind of mood. I'm not faulting you here -- I get in some bad moods too.  But I think during the times you are more amiable and constructive most would not recommend that others not talk to you.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

If you're referring to a time I saw someone recommend not responding to you it was when you were being pretty argumentative -- like you wanted to fight.  It usually is best to just ignore someone in that kind of mood. I'm not faulting you here -- I get in some bad moods too.  But I think during the times you are more amiable and constructive most would not recommend that others not talk to you.

Your being off topic Luna, If you want to talk about the subject please go ahead or talk in a different thread.

Edited by Sassy Kenin
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32 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:

1.Removal of the reputation points system

Agreed.

32 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:

2.Expansion of the Emojis (Only if a user can be allowed to not see them from someone they blocked)

Also agreed.

32 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:

3.OP of a thread should be able to have the ability to close it or lock a thread after they think its served its purpose or it had unintended side effects.

They can already to this by asking the mods to close it. If users had the ability to do it themselves, we'd have trolls coming and starting threads saying the most vile things they can think of, waiting five minutes, then deleting it. I don't think users can be trusted with this function. 

34 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:

4.Time limit replies to any specific thread or and limited posts per day in general to certain sections or topics.

They'll never do this. Site traffic is site traffic and the more people here and the more people posting, the better it is for their SEO. 

35 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:

5.Remove Advisor and other ruminate titles carried over from past forum incarnates

 three types Resident, Linden,Viewer Developer. and possible subtitles for premium members and as a ‘Creator Package’

I agree with the removing of the Advisor title, but not so much the others. Linden and Resident is enough. People get angry about premium members having the perks they already have... giving them a special title would infuriate some people and cause further division.

37 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:

6. Monetize some classifieds or Add enhanced abilities  from premium membership.

I'd vote to remove everything except the Merchant forum under the Commerce section. SL already has classified ads... let them use those and get them off the forums. 

39 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:

7. Moves the peoples forum to the bottom of the website while moving the Answers Section to the top and add more restrictions to the general section in regards to topics.

I believe the forums needs to be reordered and cleaned up, but I'm not sure if I agree with the Answers being at the top unless that's where it lands when things are alphabetized. I'd also combine the Make Friends and Lifestyles & Relationships forums into one. Remove the freaking Leap into Love forum that has been over for ages. I'd put the Education forum under Places & Events. I'd change that to Places, Events, and Games and move all the word game threads to that as well. Fashion and My Avatar can be combined, too, since is seems to be more people asking advice and opinions, and less creators talking about how to create clothing. Get rid of all the sales and rentals under Land. Again, let them use the classifieds. The poor Adult Content Section deserves to be moved from the bottom like it's something shameful, and the Events & Announcements can be combined. And why not a separate adult photography forum for people who want to see something a little saucier? Nudity but not sexual? Let Adult be Adult.

I almost feel like the Answers section could be on the side or something... "Looking for Answers? Click here" and there is a separate page/forum strictly for that. 

49 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:

8. Linden Lab may have a difficult time and understandable time controlling inworld events, the forum on the other hand should be the exception and a safe zone for everyone, so similar standards used by employers, the spirit of those policies should reflect on for customers as well.

The rules are already the same for SL and the Forums. The governance team is stretched thin with having to govern inside and outside of SL. This is a public forum. People should be allowed to disagree. No, it shouldn't be allowed to get personal and hateful, and it's not, but again, the governance team is stretched thin and relies on people reporting posts and/or users and to let the team decided what's okay and what isn't. It's literally their job, but they need the community's help to catch everything. 

People are going to be people. No one is going to agree with or like everything everyone else says. People who are disagreed with are always going to feel like they're being unfairly targeted. It would not only be boring if we were all forced to be someone's definition of "nice" and make the forums a conflict-free safe space, but it would also become even more of a passive-aggressive hell than it is now. That's one of the reasons I'd like to see one of the new reaction buttons be something that can denote "I disagree with this" or "I don't like this" so people do have a way of expressing an opinion without it having to be written out, which could quickly turn ugly and often does. 

People have different personalities. Some of us are more delicate than others. Some of us are more blunt. There are language differences and things sometimes get lost in translation. People are messy, and it's not always pretty. 

But yes, there are certainly some things that could be, and need to be, changed within the forums.

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Posted (edited)

No, to all of it. Go make your own Forum if this one isn't suitable - it is already Moderated to the point of false civility and we do not need further moderation nor do we need any of the suggestions made as the basis of this thread.

Edited by Solar Legion
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The only thing I would like changed is the woman with the gaping mouth in the graphic at the top of the page. She looks like she had waaay too many refills of whatever's in that cup she's holding. But then, maybe she just visited the forum on 'one of those days'.   :)

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21 hours ago, Sassy Kenin said:

This was created from two other discussions to outline suggested changes to the forums...to create a better shared user space.

1.Removal of the reputation points system

2.Expansion of the Emojis (Only if a user can be allowed to not see them from someone they blocked)

3.OP of a thread should be able to have the ability to close it or lock a thread after they think its served its purpose or it had unintended side effects.

4.Time limit replies to any specific thread or and limited posts per day in general to certain sections or topics.

5.Remove Advisor and other ruminate titles carried over from past forum incarnates

 three types Resident, Linden,Viewer Developer. and possible subtitles for premium members and as a ‘Creator Package’

6. Monetize some classifieds or Add enhanced abilities  from premium membership.

7. Moves the peoples forum to the bottom of the website while moving the Answers Section to the top and add more restrictions to the general section in regards to topics.

8. Linden Lab may have a difficult time and understandable time controlling inworld events, the forum on the other hand should be the exception and a safe zone for everyone, so similar standards used by employers, the spirit of those policies should reflect on for customers as well.

 

I will add to this list as time moves forwards, I'd love to hear more of others opinions and suggestions. If your fearful of any social reprisal from your peers here for interaction with me, please send me a notecard and I'll post that as an anonymous comment to protect your privacy and safety here.

 

 

I am not really interested in seeing any of these changes.  I don't think that the existing way the forum works is in need of change or re-vamping.  Compared to other forums that I have been involved with over the years, this particular forum is pretty tame.   I think that the current level of moderation is sufficient.

I am definitely against any time limits or restrictions on limiting posts per day, and to monetization based on classifieds or ads. 

The Answers section is one of the tabs prominently displayed in the navigation area of the header.  If people can't find it there, I doubt that moving it to the top and moving the the Peoples section to the bottom of how the Forums display when you choose Forums from the same top navigation area will make any significant change for the better.  The People forum is actually a very useful sub-forum.   

I generally read the forums first by displaying all the entire forum and marking a few sections that I am not at all interested in as "read", and then I switch to a view of unread posts in which the order of a forum section in the overall list becomes irrelevant.  When I get too tired of all the whining or the bickering between people gets to be too much, especially if they start carrying it from one thread to another, I just mark the entire site as "read" and go do something else. 

I don't think the problem is with the way the forum software behaves, or with a lack of moderation, but the way people react and respond to others.  You could remove reputation points and reaction emojis, but I doubt that will solve any of the problems.  You could have LL dedicate more staff to moderation (but at what cost to other areas of their operations?) and I believe that would result in a forum much less used and much more sterile in atmosphere.  Too much of those kinds of restrictions and heavy moderation and attempting to make it safe for everyone I think eventually leads to the forum dying off or just being closed down because of the effort required to try and keep everyone in line (from what I have seen from other forums over the years that have taken that direction).  

We already have the TOS and the Community Guidelines that do address harassment, and avenues for reporting that. The bottom line, though, is that not all people treat each other nicely and not all people agree with others all the time.  Where the line is between discussion, disagreement and harassment is also something that not everyone agrees on.  I think the forum has good policies and framework in place, and that above that, it's up to the individual person to step back when they personally feel they need to.  No matter the community policies, there is a certain level of self-control and common sense needed that is the responsibility of the individual.

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4 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

No, to all of it. Go make your own Forum if this one isn't suitable - it is already Moderated to the point of false civility and we do not need further moderation nor do we need any of the suggestions made as the basis of this thread.

Thank you for expressing your viewpoint and for responding Solar.

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11 minutes ago, Moira Timmerman said:

I am not really interested in seeing any of these changes.  I don't think that the existing way the forum works is in need of change or re-vamping.  Compared to other forums that I have been involved with over the years, this particular forum is pretty tame.   I think that the current level of moderation is sufficient.

I am definitely against any time limits or restrictions on limiting posts per day, and to monetization based on classifieds or ads. 

The Answers section is one of the tabs prominently displayed in the navigation area of the header.  If people can't find it there, I doubt that moving it to the top and moving the the Peoples section to the bottom of how the Forums display when you choose Forums from the same top navigation area will make any significant change for the better.  The People forum is actually a very useful sub-forum.   

I generally read the forums first by displaying all the entire forum and marking a few sections that I am not at all interested in as "read", and then I switch to a view of unread posts in which the order of a forum section in the overall list becomes irrelevant.  When I get too tired of all the whining or the bickering between people gets to be too much, especially if they start carrying it from one thread to another, I just mark the entire site as "read" and go do something else. 

I don't think the problem is with the way the forum software behaves, or with a lack of moderation, but the way people react and respond to others.  You could remove reputation points and reaction emojis, but I doubt that will solve any of the problems.  You could have LL dedicate more staff to moderation (but at what cost to other areas of their operations?) and I believe that would result in a forum much less used and much more sterile in atmosphere.  Too much of those kinds of restrictions and heavy moderation and attempting to make it safe for everyone I think eventually leads to the forum dying off or just being closed down because of the effort required to try and keep everyone in line (from what I have seen from other forums over the years that have taken that direction).  

We already have the TOS and the Community Guidelines that do address harassment, and avenues for reporting that. The bottom line, though, is that not all people treat each other nicely and not all people agree with others all the time.  Where the line is between discussion, disagreement and harassment is also something that not everyone agrees on.  I think the forum has good policies and framework in place, and that above that, it's up to the individual person to step back when they personally feel they need to.  No matter the community policies, there is a certain level of self-control and common sense needed that is the responsibility of the individual.

Thank you for expressing your viewpoint and for responding, Moira.

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1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

The only thing I would like changed is the woman with the gaping mouth in the graphic at the top of the page. She looks like she had waaay too many refills of whatever's in that cup she's holding. But then, maybe she just visited the forum on 'one of those days'.   :)

Sounds like another personal attack, would you care to stay on subject or leave the discussion.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/9/2020 at 4:08 PM, Beth Macbain said:

Agreed.

Also agreed.

They can already to this by asking the mods to close it. If users had the ability to do it themselves, we'd have trolls coming and starting threads saying the most vile things they can think of, waiting five minutes, then deleting it. I don't think users can be trusted with this function. 

I agree, but would like to see if possible within the forum software if you could flag for a mod specifically to close a thread from thread itself (button says check here to close thread then you get a pop up message stating 'Moderator has been notified and will review shortly' and that could only be done by the OP of the thread to discourage anyone from trying to close it.

They'll never do this. Site traffic is site traffic and the more people here and the more people posting, the better it is for their SEO. 

I agree they have to balance between community by not strangling it but at the same time not let it become the wild west.

I agree with the removing of the Advisor title, but not so much the others. Linden and Resident is enough. People get angry about premium members having the perks they already have... giving them a special title would infuriate some people and cause further division.

I can see that, I just threw premium in for ideas

I'd vote to remove everything except the Merchant forum under the Commerce section. SL already has classified ads... let them use those and get them off the forums. 

Sounds like reasonable a plan to make it more tidy.

I believe the forums needs to be reordered and cleaned up, but I'm not sure if I agree with the Answers being at the top unless that's where it lands when things are alphabetized. I'd also combine the Make Friends and Lifestyles & Relationships forums into one. Remove the freaking Leap into Love forum that has been over for ages. I'd put the Education forum under Places & Events. I'd change that to Places, Events, and Games and move all the word game threads to that as well. Fashion and My Avatar can be combined, too, since is seems to be more people asking advice and opinions, and less creators talking about how to create clothing. Get rid of all the sales and rentals under Land. Again, let them use the classifieds. The poor Adult Content Section deserves to be moved from the bottom like it's something shameful, and the Events & Announcements can be combined. And why not a separate adult photography forum for people who want to see something a little saucier? Nudity but not sexual? Let Adult be Adult.

I agree, sometimes regarding classifieds that might be the solution they have classifieds elsewhere and inworld groups to peddle land/content, I have no issues with Adult and adding an Adult photography section would improve things by putting less constraint on those trying to express themselves and being creative.

I almost feel like the Answers section could be on the side or something... "Looking for Answers? Click here" and there is a separate page/forum strictly for that. 

That would be a better option then up or down

The rules are already the same for SL and the Forums. The governance team is stretched thin with having to govern inside and outside of SL. This is a public forum. People should be allowed to disagree. No, it shouldn't be allowed to get personal and hateful, and it's not, but again, the governance team is stretched thin and relies on people reporting posts and/or users and to let the team decided what's okay and what isn't. It's literally their job, but they need the community's help to catch everything. 

People are going to be people. No one is going to agree with or like everything everyone else says. People who are disagreed with are always going to feel like they're being unfairly targeted. It would not only be boring if we were all forced to be someone's definition of "nice" and make the forums a conflict-free safe space, but it would also become even more of a passive-aggressive hell than it is now. That's one of the reasons I'd like to see one of the new reaction buttons be something that can denote "I disagree with this" or "I don't like this" so people do have a way of expressing an opinion without it having to be written out, which could quickly turn ugly and often does. 

I know my comments were really more wishful thinking.

People have different personalities. Some of us are more delicate than others. Some of us are more blunt. There are language differences and things sometimes get lost in translation. People are messy, and it's not always pretty. 

I agree even more so when their can be a language barrier or they have physical or physiological challenges

But yes, there are certainly some things that could be, and need to be, changed within the forums.

I guess the things we might like to see done would have to be sometime the lindens seen as well, considering some changes might take time (payroll hours) likely who ever the new linden is that took over this year over the forums might already be swamped with fixing things or not be motivated to polish things up if they boss has not said to do so.

Thank you Beth for the well thought out and insightful reply , It's appreciated🥰. those are some great improvements ideas you have, I will check back in later today adding an edit to discuss those and do you think something like those improvements could find priority by the lab to be implemented or could it all be wishful thinking/ customer feedback?

Edited by Sassy Kenin
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12 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

The only thing I would like changed is the woman with the gaping mouth in the graphic at the top of the page. She looks like she had waaay too many refills of whatever's in that cup she's holding. But then, maybe she just visited the forum on 'one of those days'.   :)

Sounds like another personal attack, would you care to stay on subject or leave the discussion.

A bit of a warning, Sassy -- I wouldn't try ordering me around too much. And best to find out what's in my mind before making assumptions.

The graphic at the top of the forum is supposed to represent us, the forum members. I don't like to be represented by a woman who looks drunk.

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17 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

A bit of a warning, Sassy -- I wouldn't try ordering me around too much. And best to find out what's in my mind before making assumptions.

The graphic at the top of the forum is supposed to represent us, the forum members. I don't like to be represented by a woman who looks drunk.

Good one Luna.

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Posted (edited)

Lecturing anyone about staying on topic isn't really the way to go either.  If someone strays enough in a bad enough way, LL will remove their posts and possibly give them a hand-slap.  If many people derail a thread far enough off the tracks, then apparently the original topic just wasn't interesting enough to keep it going.

Such is the way of forums - welcome to the internet.

 

As to the original questions, I wouldn't really have a problem with the Reputation system going away, but I don't think it will accomplish much either.  The Leaderboard pages could definitely go away without any negative backlash other than some folks not getting their ego stroked enough.  I do think the reaction icons need to stay.  I do not see any reason to quote a post just to say "Thanks", "Good post", "LOL".

I most definitely do not think the OP should be able to close a thread.  There are too many that would close a thread simply because they came here hoping to get sympathy even when they are in the wrong and then want to close a thread when someone tries to tell them how the rules work.  Keep that decision in LL's hands.

I'm up in the air about time limits on responding to threads -- I truly can see and appreciate both sides of that argument.  

I don't have any issues with removing the Advisor title and just calling everyone Resident, but we don't need other special titles like 'Viewer Developer' and such.

I don't want any ads from SL folks on any of the regular forum pages.

It could be beneficial having the Answers section at the top, since we get a lot of things in GD that would have been better as a Question/Answer thing.  The forums overall could probably benefit from a bit or reorganizing, but decided on what the best order is would be highly subjective.

We definitely do not need to forums to be moderated any more tightly than they all ready are.  Many of us sometimes get a bit peevish, but that is life in general. If we don't manager to reign ourselves in, LL usually handles it just fine with their current policies..

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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Posted (edited)

Let me say this, then some of you can continue the derailment.

This is not my epic thread nor do i care for any thread to be. see my thoughts were to share some ideas in a uniformed way that being accomplished. I am glad others have as well.

For the near future people are going to see this thread, ideas are power,  they will decide and nothing at this point can change that even a derailment or a lock.

If anyone or linden lab acts on or finds intrest of the ideas here will likely be a different thing, maybe. but we all know the track record for change and why.

As for some opinions of me as in my personality or character its fine I have thick skin like a honey badger. will still come on here, enjoy myself (wishing you the same) while helping others for the foreseeable future.

Hands everyone a piece of Welcome Pie🥧 ....Enjoy😘

 

 

Edited by Sassy Kenin
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1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Lecturing anyone about staying on topic isn't really the way to go either.  If someone strays enough in a bad enough way, LL will remove their posts and possibly give them a hand-slap.  If many people derail a thread far enough off the tracks, then apparently the original topic just wasn't interesting enough to keep it going.

Such is the way of forums - welcome to the internet.

 

As to the original questions, I wouldn't really have a problem with the Reputation system going away, but I don't think it will accomplish much either.  The Leaderboard pages could definitely go away without any negative backlash other than some folks not getting their ego stroked enough.  I do think the reaction icons need to stay.  I do not see any reason to quote a post just to say "Thanks", "Good post", "LOL".

I most definitely do not think the OP should be able to close a thread.  There are too many that would close a thread simply because they came here hoping to get sympathy even when they are in the wrong and then wan to close a thread when someone tries to tell them how the rules work.  Keep that decision in LL's hands.

I'm up in the air about time limits on responding to threads -- I truly can see and appreciate both sides of that argument.  

I don't have any issues with removing the Advisor title and just calling everyone Resident, but we don't need other special titles like 'Viewer Developer' and sch.

I don't want any ads from SL folks on any of the regular forum pages.

It could be beneficial having the Answers section at the top, since we get a lot of things in GD that would have been better as a Question/Answer thing.  The forums overall could probably benefit from a bit or reorganizing, but decided on what the best order is would be highly subjective.

We definitely do not need to forums to be moderated any more tightly than they all ready are.  Many of us sometimes get a bit peevish, but that is life in general. If we don't manager to reign ourselves in, LL usually handles it just fine with their current policies..

Thank you for expressing your viewpoint and responding, Lil🙂

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i wouldn't mind a viewer mod

on the viewer Help menu is Community Forums

what I would like is that it be changed to Ask a question...

when click then it logs into Answers : Everything Else and automagic opens Ask New Question page. Person can then ask their question

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Posted (edited)

a more usefull feature would be a 24h or 48h period of  "read only" feature on the forums for new sign ups..would give those idiot spammers less chance to post their mind burps. ( and us less annoyance because ther's no mod anywhere from friday to monday)

Edited by Alwin Alcott
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4 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

a more usefull feature would be a 24h or 48h period of  "read only" feature on the forums for new sign ups..would give those idiot spammers less chance to post their mind burps. ( and us less annoyance because ther's no mod anywhere from friday to monday)

Whomever is doing that has completely went 🍌 that's a good idea, maybe some kind of temporary sandbox thread they would be boxed in during a time restriction?

11 hours ago, Mollymews said:

i wouldn't mind a viewer mod

on the viewer Help menu is Community Forums

what I would like is that it be changed to Ask a question...

when click then it logs into Answers : Everything Else and automagic opens Ask New Question page. Person can then ask their question

That's something that really should happen, puzzling why it's never been added, I have a feeling with the amazon cloud move at some point we might get a next gen viewer and that's the kind of features it should have.

It should be as easy as clicking a link, especially for a new resident likely confused over what to do.

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7 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

a more usefull feature would be a 24h or 48h period of  "read only" feature on the forums for new sign ups..would give those idiot spammers less chance to post their mind burps. ( and us less annoyance because ther's no mod anywhere from friday to monday)

As much as I love this idea, and likely many other regular forum posters would also, I can't see LL ever doing this.  There have been too many legitimate new users that come to the forums with questions within their first day.  LL is never going to stop that because it could cause people to walk away and never come back.

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2 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

As much as I love this idea, and likely many other regular forum posters would also, I can't see LL ever doing this.  There have been too many legitimate new users that come to the forums with questions within their first day.  LL is never going to stop that because it could cause people to walk away and never come back.

I agree that LL would probably not implement this, because of legitimate 1 or 2 day old people asking for help in the forums. 

Also, in the case of the current problem person, I don't think that a 24 or even 48 hour waiting period would deter him.  

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4 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

As much as I love this idea, and likely many other regular forum posters would also, I can't see LL ever doing this.  There have been too many legitimate new users that come to the forums with questions within their first day.  LL is never going to stop that because it could cause people to walk away and never come back.

They could ask for age verification, discouraging the doxxing while putting payment on file or wait 48 hours. they still have access inworld if chosen. just a perspective but your right they won't for reasons mentioned.

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