A skin store refuse to have demos?

[Maryanne Solo]

and that's the thing, 

If your demo is not insulting my good intent, intelligence? 🤭 and must have desire I will buy THREE of your items regardless of the cost.
1 for me 2 for my known/public alts which rarely make an appearance but they're still me.
Eg: A certain brand of Lovely And Quintessential head? (lol) 4 heads each x 2 alts & me? = 19 squillion lindens! Do I care about the cost? NO WAY!

I work hard in RL and SL is for my relaxation and fantasies. All clean as a whistle I might add.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Maryanne Solo
Punctuation

[Maitimo]

5 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

I thought about it, but I read a lot in Seraphim, different sales and events, and often browse the Marketplace. I could not say that I recognized some. Stolen skins often come in one tone only, and a wildly different style, different ads, they look like garage sales tossed together. Her poster looked totally mouthwatering.

 

Hmm, that is odd then. I can't see the images cos I still don't have a clue what store it is. I searched through seraphim and all the skin sellers I could find in there DO have demos. So I'm at a loss where to look now. (Can you PM me with a hint?)

[Amorenna Bae]

I don't buy anything without demoing. Period.

[kiramanell]

Part of me wonders whether there's perhaps a mite too much entitlement going on here!? Would I buy a skin without a demo? Maybe not. But I don't feel entitled to a demo, is my point. Hence, to state a store 'refuses to have demos' feels a bit off, as hey don't owe us anything to begin with.

Like for me, I only buy mod/copy stuff (clothes excluded), as I made my own rezzer system, and everything needs to fit inside the rezzer (with a rezzer script in each object). If they don't sell it copy, I simply won't buy it -- their loss, I figure. Sometimes I feel like politely pointing out that selling things copy is useful. But I don't make a big deal about it: for them 10 others.

Ultimately, regular economic principles are a great restorer of balance: if the service of store X is considered sub-par in the eyes of too many, they will simply either go under, or feel the need to adapt to what customers are accustomed to these days.

[kiramanell]

On 4/29/2020 at 5:55 PM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Totally this.

Yeah, it's her own store, she can do what she wants, blah blah blah.

But I'd avoid the place on the basis of her attitude alone, frankly. I don't know whether I'd call her "elitist," exactly, but she clearly has zero respect for her customers.

I don't need to patronize someone like that, and wouldn't.

 

Store owner was clearly rude beyond what was called for. From her perspective, I can see, though, that the matter of demos has probably been brought up with her before, and that she likely thought something like "Here we go again, another one badgering me about demos!" You're sure to lose the customer that way, of course. If a store is really adamant about not doing DEMOS, I'd make that abundantly clear in the inworld-store/MP upfront, to avoid such confrontations.

[MirandaBowers]

How do you guys feel about demos that you have to pay for? 

[Amorenna Bae]

15 minutes ago, MirandaBowers said:

How do you guys feel about demos that you have to pay for? 

I've never run into that.

[Maitimo]

20 minutes ago, MirandaBowers said:

How do you guys feel about demos that you have to pay for? 

I don't mind at all to pay L$1 for a demo. It's useful sometimes, to be able to send them to an alt from the MP.  More than L$1 is a no-sale.

Strange thing I ran into today though, was in a store, where the demos were L$1 that was auto-refunded. I don't get the point of doing that.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Maitimo

[Amorenna Bae]

1 hour ago, kiramanell said:

Part of me wonders whether there's perhaps a mite too much entitlement going on here!? Would I buy a skin without a demo? Maybe not. But I don't feel entitled to a demo, is my point. Hence, to state a store 'refuses to have demos' feels a bit off, as hey don't owe us anything to begin with.

Like for me, I only buy mod/copy stuff (clothes excluded), as I made my own rezzer system, and everything needs to fit inside the rezzer (with a rezzer script in each object). If they don't sell it copy, I simply won't buy it -- their loss, I figure. Sometimes I feel like politely pointing out that selling things copy is useful. But I don't make a big deal about it: for them 10 others.

Ultimately, regular economic principles are a great restorer of balance: if the service of store X is considered sub-par in the eyes of too many, they will simply either go under, or feel the need to adapt to what customers are accustomed to these days.

I don't really feel it's a matter of entitlement. If you went to the store to buy a new outfit and upon discovering they don't allow you to try it on...wouldn't that be weird and a little offensive? How do they expect you to know if it fits, if you like it, how the material feels on your body, etc? It's less about entitlement and more about common sense.

SL stores offer very little in the way of customer service / satisfaction due to all the non-transfer business... so demos are really the only way to vet something before purchasing. Like, period. I think it's perfectly logical and reasonable to expect demos for something as personal as skins, since they all look different on everyone and the only thing we really have to base our original opinion on is a brushed up advertisement photo. And especially since good ones are easily 500+ lindens.

Does someone have to provide a demo? No, of course not. Free market and all that. But does that someone make as much money as someone who does? I think we all probably know the answer to that. Since there's so much competition, though, it's easy enough to move right along to a store that actually cares about their customers.

[Amorenna Bae]

3 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

I don't mind at all to pay L$1 for a demo. It's useful sometimes, to be able to send them to an alt from the MP.  More than L$1 is a no-sale.

Strange thing I ran into today though, was in a store, where the demos were L$1 that was auto-refunded. I don't get the point of doing that.

I think it's the type of vendor the store uses. Some do not allow you to price something 0...so some merchants are nice and refund you the L$1

[Maitimo]

Just now, Amorenna said:

I think it's the type of vendor the store uses. Some do not allow you to price something 0...so some merchants are nice and refund you the L$1

Ah that sort of makes sense, though it doesn't really make sense that the vendor-maker doesn't allow a price of zero.

[Amorenna Bae]

1 minute ago, Maitimo said:

Ah that sort of makes sense, though it doesn't really make sense that the vendor-maker doesn't allow a price of zero.

I agree, pretty stupid.

It's something I only just learned - I was at a hair store and they had a free gift and had a sign that says sorry it charges, Caspervend doesn't allow 0, we'll refund the L$1 after purchase. Learn something new every day

[Claireschen Hesten]

11 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

Strange thing I ran into today though, was in a store, where the demos were L$1 that was auto-refunded. I don't get the point of doing that.

If they are using casper vendors touch or right click touch as appropriate and in the blue dialogue click deliver most of the time things intended to be free will be delivered with out having to pay a refunded L$1 if you see the option redeliver it means the product is meant to be at least L$1

[Jennifer Boyle]

On 4/29/2020 at 8:19 AM, brodiac90 said:

If I am unknowingly losing sales I may just get rid of the timed demos and keep the floating demo rings. 

I don't know what you make. I'm writing this as though you make quality women's apparel and avatar components. With demos that quit working after two minutes, you are definitely losing sales---a lot of sales. If I went to a store, saw several items that I just loved, collected the demos, and took them home to try on, and the first one stopped working after two minutes, I would be so angry that I not only would not buy that product, but would delete all the demos and never again even consider buying from that store. Two hours would be fine.

You may be thinking, "If I give them two hours, they will just use one demo for two hours and then use another for two hours, so I can't do that." You would be wrong. Some people would do what you fear, but they are not the people who would buy your products. You target market is people who are willing to pay for good quality. There is little overlap between them and people who are willing to take the trouble to replace a timed demo every two hours.

You lose nothing when people who would never buy it anyway use you stuff for free. You do lose when people who would have otherwise bought it don't because of measures you took to prevent the other group's using it.

This is nothing new. For as long as I can remember, SL merchants have been obsessed with preventing people's using their stuff for free, when they would be a lot better off being obsessed with giving people who are willing to pay a great experience.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Jennifer Boyle
Correct typo

[Blaise Glendevon]

5 hours ago, MirandaBowers said:

How do you guys feel about demos that you have to pay for? 

I understand it on MP, because free items have problems. So a $L 1 demo doesn't put me out too badly.

In world? NEVER. 

[Anna Nova]

I'm thinking... 

Write a script to tell you when someone nearby is wearing one of her skins, and warn you, so you can mute and de-render them.  Send the creator a timed demo copy.

Don't get angry, get even.

[Marianne Little]

I got a fatpack of head skins for 65 L, so my search is over.... even with the body skins it is half price of what I would paid the one who offer no demos. Great to have the pack, I had such a hard time deciding if I should buy tone 7 or 8, but now I have them all.

I have no idea when the sale ends, if it is Monday 4th of May or further. When one door closes, a window opens, or some Zen philosopy.

Lovely precious skin. 🤩

 

[kiramanell]

11 hours ago, Amorenna said:

I don't really feel it's a matter of entitlement. If you went to the store to buy a new outfit and upon discovering they don't allow you to try it on...wouldn't that be weird and a little offensive? How do they expect you to know if it fits, if you like it, how the material feels on your body, etc? It's less about entitlement and more about common sense.

SL stores offer very little in the way of customer service / satisfaction due to all the non-transfer business... so demos are really the only way to vet something before purchasing. Like, period. I think it's perfectly logical and reasonable to expect demos for something as personal as skins, since they all look different on everyone and the only thing we really have to base our original opinion on is a brushed up advertisement photo. And especially since good ones are easily 500+ lindens.

Does someone have to provide a demo? No, of course not. Free market and all that. But does that someone make as much money as someone who does? I think we all probably know the answer to that. Since there's so much competition, though, it's easy enough to move right along to a store that actually cares about their customers.

 

I don't think we fundamentally disagree, even.  It makes a great deal of sense to offer demos, and it's almost self-evident that you're going to hurt your own business when you don't. Only thing I don't like, is when ppl tell them they HAVE to do this-or-that.

And, to answer your inquiry, if a RL shop doesn't let me try on a dress, I'm walking (never to return), especially since there are no demos to be had in RL. I guess it's just a matter of how one interprets 'expect.' I expect the service to be present, but don't expect them to run their business according to my will, as, just like you said, and I as well, for them 10 others: they don't offer a free demo, no 'skin' off my back (obligatory pun), and I'll go somwhere else -- plenty of SL stores that are willing to accommodate me.

Clothes are high-risk (even in RL). Chances of things not fitting properly on YOUR avatar (if may fit for others) are pretty high. So, unless it's a very cheap product -- where I feel the risk is acceptable -- a demo version is almost always warranted.

Oh, and as for time-gated DEMOS, don't do that, please. All in my own good time. If you pressure me, you're almost guaranteed no sale.

[ClariceRose]

I have demoed probably over 500 skins in the last few years. I'm a skin junkie lol. Ok, so, from my past experience with skins, 75% of them look nothing like the ad. They were a big disappointment. 

So, I would never buy a skin that didn't have a demo unless it was less than 200L...and I'd only do that once or twice. 

Yes, she can run her business how she wants but doesn't mean we have to like it and buy.

[brodiac90]

To confirm, I got rid of the timed demos. I had no idea they caused so much frustration. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, brodiac90 said:

To confirm, I got rid of the timed demos. I had no idea they caused so much frustration. 

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a lot of creators didn't realize it.  Many customers won't bother complaining to the creator about it, but will just delete and move on.

It's always nice to see a creator take in all of the feedback about something and make changes based on that.

[missyrideout]

20 hours ago, MirandaBowers said:

How do you guys feel about demos that you have to pay for? 

There are a couple brands at my regular events that do the 1L$ demo thing. I couldnt tell you which because I've never demoed or bought anything they make. I think to myself "They must have their reasons, why are you being so petty, try the demo!" and yet I never do. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by missyrideout

[Skell Dagger]

20 hours ago, MirandaBowers said:

How do you guys feel about demos that you have to pay for? 

I will pay L$1 or L$2 for a demo (although I side-eye anyone who charges L$2, and the item in question would need to be something I really wanted to try before I'll pay L$2).

I once tried an incredible-looking hairstyle that demanded L$10 for the demo. I dithered for some time over getting it, but I really wanted to try it and and I figured in the end, "Eh, you know what, L$10 is nothing compared to how much I spend in SL, and this looks so good."

When I tried that demo on I realised why it wasn't free. It was so bad that it only 'worked' in specific static poses. There is no way it would have looked good on an avatar in motion. Trying the demo was an instant "Oh hell no; in the trash with you" moment, so I guess at least the creator got some money out of everyone who took a chance on the demo.

[FairreLilette]

16 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

I understand it on MP, because free items have problems. So a $L 1 demo doesn't put me out too badly.

In world? NEVER. 

I heard on the forum that *if* you add a 1 linden item at least along with 9 free demos, the MP should be able to deliver all the items.  

However, I've been in SL (this time) since 2017 and I've 99.9 percent of the time been able to get all 10 free demos without any problem.  If it times out - wait or relog - and then your 10 free demos will be in your RECEIVED ITEMS area.  

21 hours ago, MirandaBowers said:

How do you guys feel about demos that you have to pay for?

So-so...most demos are free for the stores of my choice...I have my "go to" stores so to speak.  If there is an item I think I may really want, I will pay the 1 linden but it rarely happens.  Also, since the 1 linden cannot be split so LL can get it's 10%, I think the 1 linden goes to LL, not the seller but I am not sure about that.  I know when my items are not a rounded number, LL takes the 1 (extra) linden and I don't get any of that 1 (extra) linden.   But, I don't believe in 1 linden items really not because of LL but because I offer free things as a gift so if it's 1 linden, it's not really a free gift, imo.   All in all though, I think demos should be free and the majority are.  

To me, with this seller with no demos for a skin, it's a total avoid.  

Edited May 2, 2020 by FairreLilette

[MoiraKathleen]

1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

I heard on the forum that *if* you add a 1 linden item at least along with 9 free demos, the MP should be able to deliver all the items.  

The thing with the free demos on the MP, is that you cannot 'gift' the demo to an alt.  If the MP demo is L$1, it can be gifted to an alt.

For the account that is logged in to the MP you can purchase up to 10 L$0 items - you just get an extra screen in the check-out process when the total is L$0, where you have to scroll down to the bottom to click a button to continue with the check-out.  

To the best of my recollection, when I have had to pay L$1 for a demo, it was always returned to me immediately afterwards, so I have no problem with that.