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anonymousrailwaybingo

Making things more complicated isn't improvement

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Posted (edited)

The first time I got to know Second Life was around the year 2012. I did'n't have time to use it much back then, but the thing I remember was this: Second Life used to be much more user friendly and simple. For example, it was a lot easier for a beginner to make your own avatar and find things from different categories (inventories and so on...). 

Now Second Life seems to become an insiders venue where you need lots of "secret" knowledge how to run things smooth. Or you need to read complicated instructions that make sure you'll lose interest and focus within seconds. And you need to have a super computer to run the "game". I'm amazed how slow and lagging SL is comparing to what it was in 2012. And this can't be explained with better content and graphics, because what I remember - the graphics were actually better back then.

The inventory section is a complete mess. For example, you have to pick your clothes pretty much blindfolded from the category. It'd be nice to have a neat wardrobe closet where you could see what you have and choose easily. And most of the time the inventories you've purchased wont work/open. 

I wish I had a magic wand and was able take this game back to where it used to be, in 2012...

Edited by anonymousrailwaybingo
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11 minutes ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

I wish I had a magic wand and was able take this game back to where it used to be, in 2012...

Eep not me!  I was dating a major psycho then!!!

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56 minutes ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

The inventory section is a complete mess. For example, you have to pick your clothes pretty much blindfolded from the category. It'd be nice to have a neat wardrobe closet where you could see what you have and choose easily

look into Outfits which is the SL wardrobe closet organiser

knowledge base article here:

 

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1 hour ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

Second Life used to be much more user friendly and simple. For example, it was a lot easier for a beginner to make your own avatar and find things from different categories (inventories and so on...).

It still is the same!

You ( and nearly all returners/newbs) let yourself suck into the complicated mesh stuff too soon.
Get your hang again, and after that start updating your avi to the newer stuff.

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1 hour ago, Jordan Whitt said:

Eep not me!  I was dating a major psycho then!!!

Ohhh we met before? 

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2 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

The inventory section is a complete mess. For example, you have to pick your clothes pretty much blindfolded from the category. It'd be nice to have a neat wardrobe closet where you could see what you have and choose easily. And most of the time the inventories you've purchased wont work/open.

Very little has changed in the inventory section. The same root folders, plus whatever a resident adds. There's a new-ish Received Items folder which things from Marketplace go into so they're easy to find.

The Catznip viewer will show the photo/texture in any folder when you hover over it. I find it a it a big help. If other viewers aren't doing this, perhaps switching to Catznip will help you too.

If you've purchased some sort of inventory organiser/"closet" system, it will be from a third party (not LL). Some of those are dependent on external servers run by the creator to work. It's possible that the one you're using has stopped functioning. It's also possible that the server has been moved and the inworld asset which accesses it needs to be updated. Have you contacted the creator to ask?

Even if your closet system is defunct, all of your items will still be in your inventory. Just as you left them in 2012.

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2 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

The first time I got to know Second Life was around the year 2012. I did'n't have time to use it much back then, but the thing I remember was this: Second Life used to be much more user friendly and simple. For example, it was a lot easier for a beginner to make your own avatar and find things from different categories (inventories and so on...). 

Now Second Life seems to become an insiders venue where you need lots of "secret" knowledge how to run things smooth. Or you need to read complicated instructions that make sure you'll lose interest and focus within seconds. And you need to have a super computer to run the "game". I'm amazed how slow and lagging SL is comparing to what it was in 2012. And this can't be explained with better content and graphics, because what I remember - the graphics were actually better back then.

The inventory section is a complete mess. For example, you have to pick your clothes pretty much blindfolded from the category. It'd be nice to have a neat wardrobe closet where you could see what you have and choose easily. And most of the time the inventories you've purchased wont work/open. 

I wish I had a magic wand and was able take this game back to where it used to be, in 2012...

Same in RL.  My Dad always was moaning on about how much easier it was before puters ruining it all.  Let's wind RL back to 1939....

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

I kinda hoped for real discussion about the matter, but of course some one has to immediately arrive and ruin the topic with an irrelevant comment.

Naw, that one was rather innocent and harmless. ;)

 

But to get back to topic:

3 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

And you need to have a super computer to run the "game". I'm amazed how slow and lagging SL is comparing to what it was in 2012. And this can't be explained with better content and graphics, because what I remember - the graphics were actually better back then.

I posted this in a different thread only minutes before I noticed this one:

https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/453355-size-matters-more-than-expected/?do=findComment&comment=2104914

Somebody did a performance test back in 2011 and got a frame rate at least four times as high as what you should expect with exactly the same setup today. I'm not sure I agree the graphics were actually better back then (I wasn't here at that time) but the improvements (if any) certainly aren't nearly enough to justify such a huge performance drop. So in that respect at least SL has deteriorated significantly.

 

3 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

For example, it was a lot easier for a beginner to make your own avatar...

It's because mesh avatars are a hack, developed by users when LL failed to recognise the need for a system avatar upgrade. Huge misjudgement by LL. They're trying to patch it up with BOM and stuff now but as the old nursery song says:

   All the king's horses and all the king's men
   Couldn't put Humpty together again

 

3 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

...

and find things from different categories (inventories and so on...).

The inventory was just as bad back in 2013 when I joined as it is today and I'm not aware it was any different in 2012. SL's inventory system was only made to manage a few hundred items and it doesn't scale very well. LL was actually working on an inventory management upgrade in 2013 but nothing came out of it.

 

3 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

Now Second Life seems to become an insiders venue where you need lots of "secret" knowledge how to run things smooth. Or you need to read complicated instructions that make sure you'll lose interest and focus within seconds.

SL was always made by developers for developers. But this has become more and more obvious as the software and UI have become increasingly bloated.

Edited by ChinRey
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2020428_base_and_full_BOM_avatar.thumb.png.6c7d8f02633cac4d88bf0fbe54dead7c.png

 

First welcome back to SL. Things evolve and improve and SL has got much better, but it does not have to be hard or complicated.

Amy above is based on the free Linden Lab Avatar - from main menu, pick Choose an avatar. Her clothing is all in folder Clothing->Amy. I added a scarf, replaced her shoes and hair. Below her, my normal full BOM mesh avatar look.

Give the free avatars provided by Linden Lab a go and check the Clothing folder. An unique look can be made by combining clothing parts from the different free base avatars.

Then later, when you got a hang on it, you can explore the more advanced things like full mesh BOM avatar.

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Hi @anonymousrailwaybingo, welcome back to SL!

A few observations...

  • You can get the same graphics as you saw back in 2012.
    • Use a viewer other than the standard SL viewer.  The newest SL viewer has "EEP", an enhancement to the Windlight sky and water environment system.  While it adds some great features, it also can affect the way light interacts with objects.
    • Turn off the Advanced Lighting Model in your graphics preferences.
  • You can wear the same avatars you had back in 2012 (assuming you still have access to your old account).  Even if you don't, you can still pick up a lot of the old system layer clothing, etc. in the freebie stores and bargain basement sections of other stores.
  • Yes, the new mesh bodies and heads and their HUDs are very confusing.  Also expensive.  But you don't have to use them!
  • You have more tools to fight lag.  Too many avatars, with too many textures slowing you down?  Use your Complexity controls to turn them into jelly dolls and get your frame rate back.
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:
  • You have more tools to fight lag.  Too many avatars, with too many textures slowing you down?  Use your Complexity controls to turn them into jelly dolls and get your frame rate back.

That's true but let's face it: for anybody who are even remotely interested in the scenario beyond their own dolled up avi, having the scene populated with colored blobs is a HUGE downer. No amount of EEPs and Mats and whatevers can compensate for the damage those eyesores do to the visual quality.

Edited by ChinRey
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3 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

The first time I got to know Second Life was around the year 2012. I did'n't have time to use it much back then, but the thing I remember was this: Second Life used to be much more user friendly and simple. For example, it was a lot easier for a beginner to make your own avatar and find things from different categories (inventories and so on...). 

Now Second Life seems to become an insiders venue where you need lots of "secret" knowledge how to run things smooth. Or you need to read complicated instructions that make sure you'll lose interest and focus within seconds. And you need to have a super computer to run the "game". I'm amazed how slow and lagging SL is comparing to what it was in 2012. And this can't be explained with better content and graphics, because what I remember - the graphics were actually better back then.

The inventory section is a complete mess. For example, you have to pick your clothes pretty much blindfolded from the category. It'd be nice to have a neat wardrobe closet where you could see what you have and choose easily. And most of the time the inventories you've purchased wont work/open. 

I wish I had a magic wand and was able take this game back to where it used to be, in 2012...

Making an avatar now is exactly the same as it used to be, if you don't want to use a mesh body and head. Just start with one of the current starter avatars, and continue just as you were in 2012. Nothing has been taken away that you used to have. All your clothes from 2012 will still work. Even system clothes are still widely available for purchase on the Marketplace, and in freebie places.

Reading "complicated" instructions... well, the whole of RL is like that too. If you're unable to read or understand instructions, you're going to have a bad time in life generally.  None of the knowledge needed for SL is "secret". You just have to take the time to learn it (and ignore the mesh body stuff, if you're not going to use them).

Graphics were NOT better in 2012. But if you're still using a computer from 2012, it's not going to work because of the improvements that have been made to the graphics. If you want the same graphics experience that you had then, turn off all the extra settings like Advanced Lighting and EEP, and turn your graphics settings to "low". Use a third party viewer like Singularity, which has the same UI as the original viewer. Don't use Firestorm though. It has extra features that were not present in 2012, and you'll have to read instructions.

Choosing inventory to wear has always been "blind". That's why most stores include pictures of the outfits with everything they sell. What you have will still work (except for a small number of scripted items using script functions that have been deprecated). If they are not working for you now, you are doing something wrong (maybe read the instructions again?) There are third-party wardrobe-organisers you can buy (but setting them up is tedious). Or you can just take photos of each outfit yourself, and use descriptive names for folders in your inventory. Same as 2012.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Maitimo said:

Graphics were NOT better in 2012. But if you're still using a computer from 2012, it's not going to work because of the improvements that have been made to the graphics.

Time to drag old the old time machine! These are all builds that were around in 2012 and the graphics settings are also representative for that time period. Probably not the best selection or the best photos but I wasn't going to spend much time on this.

1961817301_Skjermbilde(3017).thumb.jpg.f6d6f07d2a9b7cacecd6fdbc9dd99a80.jpg

751920003_Skjermbilde(3018).thumb.jpg.82fa0caca4cba53344775a588e72bfbd.jpg

2015127503_Skjermbilde(3019).thumb.jpg.5965d7a69fd0953c2c9292e51174916f.jpg

1006671416_Skjermbilde(3020).thumb.jpg.c7e5889f99bf21a86b0f8d061f67323b.jpg

1977579204_Skjermbilde(3021).thumb.jpg.59daeac92c4238c2b0c91c5d2243d3cb.jpg

940507343_Skjermbilde(3023).thumb.jpg.958438cc8835e463695cad5d9c69a7af.jpg

450686385_Skjermbilde(3024).thumb.jpg.3632f1a7ed4defb2bd1474e08376e010.jpg

642556196_Skjermbilde(3027).thumb.jpg.95422197023c893300eba65ed8c37c22.jpg

973633902_Skjermbilde(3028).thumb.jpg.af83723c750bbf78d262e95cf9fd2e97.jpg

Sorry about the surrounding for these two builds:

1989044526_Skjermbilde(3025).thumb.jpg.5a345b90e84852be680f0b0070d28229.jpg

918037315_Skjermbilde(3026).thumb.jpg.1cd5c13a0cf07e07e9d6fa21754bae06.jpg

705028063_Skjermbilde(3029).thumb.jpg.d12ce1add2664c692eb66ab5268067c2.jpg1465149080_Skjermbilde(3030).thumb.jpg.e4a1f37b1dd8782ab92b8080574301fc.jpg26839983_Skjermbilde(3031).thumb.jpg.dcc68dc00234a5b2ed8776c56b44d6ec.jpg

 

Oh and of course, a 2012 style avatar:

1263482284_2012styleavi.thumb.jpg.04b99b88d68b823b0d52bf546aee3eb7.jpg

Edited by ChinRey
Added more pics
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6 hours ago, ChinRey said:

That's true but let's face it: for anybody who are even remotely interested in the scenario beyond their own dolled up avi, having the scene populated with colored blobs is a HUGE downer. No amount of EEPs and Mats and whatevers can compensate for the damage those eyesores do to the visual quality.

This is the exact reason that instead of relying on jelly dolls to up my FPS, I'd rather use Firestorm's option to just not render anyone except Friends.  I personally hate seeing a bunch of colored blobs all over the place.

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Anytime you're away from something for a few years, it's going to take some time to get back into it. Stick with it and soon enough you'll get the hang of things again. Things can be frustrating, but it ain't the space shuttle. Hang around, ask some questions and get some help when you need it. You'll be back up to speed in no time.

Turn off advanced lighting in your graphics preferences, you might be surprised at how well it can run on a fairly modest computer.

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I suggest You Tube videos. I am nerdy I guess, but before I get into any game (it’s a game to me right now, maybe that will change), I look at forums, reddit groups and You Tube. I always find loads of helpful information on anything I have questions about.

 I found plenty of info on mesh avatars, what bodies, skins and heads people prefer and what have issues or poor support. It made it so much easier for me to put together my avatar. I understand your frustration. 
 In regards to other issues there are plenty of people in forums that go to great lengths to be helpful. I had a small issue and found that to be true. 
 

 

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4 hours ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

Turn off advanced lighting in your graphics preferences, you might be surprised at how well it can run on a fairly modest computer.

It seemed to be turned off already, but thanks for the tip anyway 🙂.

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4 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

This is the exact reason that instead of relying on jelly dolls to up my FPS, I'd rather use Firestorm's option to just not render anyone except Friends.  I personally hate seeing a bunch of colored blobs all over the place.

A much better option to either of those two extremes is to lower the "max non-imposter avatars" setting. Imposters look like a low-rez clone of the normal avatar with jagged animations, but they are considerably better than jellydolls to look at - barely distinguishable from normal avatars at a glace. And as you move the camera around, the non-imposters will swap, so you'll always be focusing on full avatars while the crowd takes up fewer resources.

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3 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

A much better option to either of those two extremes is to lower the "max non-imposter avatars" setting. Imposters look like a low-rez clone of the normal avatar with jagged animations, but they are considerably better than jellydolls to look at - barely distinguishable from normal avatars at a glace. And as you move the camera around, the non-imposters will swap, so you'll always be focusing on full avatars while the crowd takes up fewer resources.

will doing this plus the other improve things more or will it just be the same?

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14 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

The first time I got to know Second Life was around the year 2012. I did'n't have time to use it much back then, but the thing I remember was this: Second Life used to be much more user friendly and simple. For example, it was a lot easier for a beginner to make your own avatar and find things from different categories (inventories and so on...). 

Now Second Life seems to become an insiders venue where you need lots of "secret" knowledge how to run things smooth. Or you need to read complicated instructions that make sure you'll lose interest and focus within seconds. And you need to have a super computer to run the "game". I'm amazed how slow and lagging SL is comparing to what it was in 2012. And this can't be explained with better content and graphics, because what I remember - the graphics were actually better back then.

The inventory section is a complete mess. For example, you have to pick your clothes pretty much blindfolded from the category. It'd be nice to have a neat wardrobe closet where you could see what you have and choose easily. And most of the time the inventories you've purchased wont work/open. 

I wish I had a magic wand and was able take this game back to where it used to be, in 2012...

As a 2007 starter, I thought 2012 was a laggy vile competitive rat race and I bailed out soon after that.

I've just returned quite recently, and see your point about some things, BUT just dance to the beat of your own drums like I do. F*ck the rat race!
As for wishing, you might want to join in on the following fun thread - it's where I park my sanity.

 

 

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14 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

I'm amazed how slow and lagging SL is comparing to what it was in 2012. And this can't be explained with better content and graphics, because what I remember - the graphics were actually better back then.

I'm not sure how you can claim with sincerity that you want an honest discussion, while posting such categorically false statements. You're either wearing glasses so rose tinted that they're opaque, or you are posting in bad faith. I'd like to assume it's the former.

You are however right to point out the lag issues. That's the consequence of creators with no real oversight structure producing content without guidance or restrictions. Many mesh creations these days are simply gorgeous, and far above anything you would have found in 2012 - but that beauty and detail comes at a heavy cost in terms of system resources. While it's hard to objectively measure this, I think it's fair to say that growth in demand on computer resources has outstripped growth in the capacity of your average new PC by some margin.

14 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

The inventory section is a complete mess. For example, you have to pick your clothes pretty much blindfolded from the category. It'd be nice to have a neat wardrobe closet where you could see what you have and choose easily. And most of the time the inventories you've purchased wont work/open. 

This hasn't changed since 2012. If you could deal with it then, there's no reason why you can't deal with it now.

(I've made my thoughts on creators who don't include a vendor ad texture with their products - so you can see what the clothing looks like without wearing it - quite clear in other threads. It's a pet hate of mine.)

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3 minutes ago, kali Wylder said:

will doing this plus the other improve things more or will it just be the same?

Depends really. If you are derendering everyone who isn't your friend, then you probably aren't going to see enough residents around you for imposters to matter. And there's rarely a reason to use jellydolls when imposters can kick in instead.

I'd say there's only really a need to do one. I personally use imposters at busy clubs, and de-render non-friends at shopping events.

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33 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

A much better option to either of those two extremes is to lower the "max non-imposter avatars" setting. Imposters look like a low-rez clone of the normal avatar with jagged animations, but they are considerably better than jellydolls to look at - barely distinguishable from normal avatars at a glace. And as you move the camera around, the non-imposters will swap, so you'll always be focusing on full avatars while the crowd takes up fewer resources.

I keep that setting super low pretty much all the time anyway. Depending on where I am at and why, I will often still have Firestorm derender anyone that isn't a Friend.  

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