Expressing your opinion on stores

[Solar Legion]

14 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Well, I don't see it that way because the Maitreya body comes with a HUD to alpha out bits.  

 

I did not know this.  You are expecting people to know what a dev kit is as you explained in your post above.  I don't know anything about dev kits period except there is one for my Dinkie I can get and that is all I know - I've looked at it but have no idea how to use this dev kit...not yet anyhow.  If you look at the fact that the Maitreya body comes with a HUD to alpha out bits, you can assume most people who don't make clothes in SL thought there is an either/or because they don't make clothing in SL nor have they ever worked with a dev kit just because they are on SL.  

M'kay: Any body coming with an alpha HUD does so because there are clothing/other items that do not properly fit their bodies - no matter the reason. Those HUDs predate the development tools and other added features (Bone Rigging and 'Fitted Mesh') that were added in later and are still needed today (for the reasons I have already covered).

Such may be good enough for you and that's lovely. I'm not using such a viewpoint/definition and not going to wiggle much on it here.

As for the entire spiel concerning dev kits and general knowledge - I don't really care what most people assume in regard to how some users see the clothing/accessory/"other" development process.

ETA: Your edit to the above post makes it very clear that you're insisting on using a very loose definition for at least one term here and frankly ... It's irritating. In your addition you mention what amounts to a custom alteration/cosmetic surgery as an 'example' of an improper fit to a specific mesh body. Unless you're using a third party add-on, any item of clothing that was properly made/fitted to the body in question will fit your body when you alter it/adjust it (assuming of course that it was made using the proper development tools, which includes the rigging needed to allow for the item to follow your shape).
LittleMe already mentioned a specialty exception above. What you're describing however. .. simply isn't.

I'm going to leave it right here as it is quite clear that you have a specific idea in mind concerning Alpha HUDs - among other things - that is affecting the way you're responding where the terms and usage have been laid out in a rather specific (and somewhat pedantic) manner.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Solar Legion

[FairreLilette]

5 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

M'kay: Any body coming with an alpha HUD does so because there are clothing/other items that do not properly fit their bodies - no matter the reason. Those HUDs predate the development tools and other added features (Bone Rigging and 'Fitted Mesh') that were added in later and are still needed today (for the reasons I have already covered).

Such may be good enough for you and that's lovely. I'm not using such a viewpoint/definition and not going to wiggle much on it here.

as for the entire spiel concerning dev kits and general knowledge - I don't really care what most people assume in regard to how some users see the clothing/accessory/"other" development process.

I'm going to leave it right here as it is quite clear that you have a specific idea in mind concerning Alpha HUDs - among other things - that is affecting the way you're responding where the terms and usage have been laid out in a rather specific (and somewhat pedantic) manner.

Okies but I can clearly see you did not address the fact that the booty sticks way out at zero buttocks for something you call "fit" (auto hide).  You left that part of my post out.

 

[Solar Legion]

3 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Okies but I can clearly see you did not address the fact that the booty sticks way out at zero buttocks for something you call "fit" (auto hide).  You left that part of my post out.

 

You wrote that addition while I was typing the post out. It has now been addressed. Do not expect anyone to instantly see your edits and write up a response for them when they have not even finished writing their response to your original post.

ETA: Post edits do not magically appear to everyone reading/responding the moment they are made - the page has to be refreshed for them to show up.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Solar Legion

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

Two words OP.. "Do it"

dont worry what others say or think about what you did or said. that is their problem not yours. express your feelings and experience how you want.

i have had picks before about stores I liked, and about ones I didnt like. nothing happened. I have posted negative reviews about stores I didnt like. the worst that happens they report it and ll removes it. who cares at that point what was needed to be said was said and they saw it, that is all that mattered.

express yourself and dont let anyone tell you not too.

make a blog about your sl time and experience with each store. it might help people decide what stores to look at for content.

[FairreLilette]

5 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

You wrote that addition while I was typing the post out. It has now been addressed. Do not expect anyone to instantly see your edits and write up a response for them when they have not even finished writing their response to your original post.

ETA: Post edits do not magically appear to everyone reading/responding the moment they are made - the page has to be refreshed for them to show up.

You are still avoiding the question though as it relates to your definition of fit.  And, and it's not just the booty sticking way out at zero buttocks, it's the boobs too when I'm at around a 57 in the breasts...the boobs are ginormous for some auto hide (fit) clothing.  That's not "fit" in my definition.  

Edited April 28, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Solar Legion]

Just now, FairreLilette said:

You are still avoiding it though as it relates to your definition of fit.  And, and it's not just the booty sticking way out at zero buttocks, it's the boobs too when I'm at around a 57 in the breasts...the boobs are ginormous for some auto hide (fit) clothing.  That's not "fit" in my definition.  

No, I am not avoiding a bloody thing. I simply don't care about your very loose definition of "fit" nor for your distortion of the definition I gave earlier (a stricter definition, given expressly to make potential discussion easier). Nowhere did I lump the use of auto-hide scripts as being a part of properly fitting a clothing item - such a use shows that an item was either not fit to the body in question or the item in question is an exception (such as specialty items like corsets).

Your given examples are examples of items that were not properly fit to the body in question or examples of the use of a third party addition. Yes, there is a range for which a properly fitted item works best (owing to the nature of deformation in the mesh itself) which was also covered by my earlier statements regarding exceptions.

Now I'll be quite clear here, since it has not seemed to register: I am not going to go back and forth with you on the matter, not while you insist on a loose definition or on distorting a stricter one to fit your own viewpoint. I even gave you an example of a store/creator that manages to get their items to actually fit what they were designed to fit. Funnily enough, my partner likes to alter her shape (bust size included) and has no problems getting items that were properly designed/fitted to actually fit without using the alpha sections of included body HUDs.

[FairreLilette]

31 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Your given examples are examples of items that were not properly fit to the body in question or examples of the use of a third party addition. Yes, there is a range for which a properly fitted item works best 

Okay you say "fit" means either it fits or you alpha out parts in one of your posts about fit.  

I think a better word is auto hide that's all and that's what I assumed it always was "auto hide" because I did not make up the words.    

I'm just wondering why it is considered "fit" when, for slim shapes, a lot of clothing does not fit...it has booty/boobs built into it.  It just sounds like fit is NOT the right word to me, that's all.

I think maybe it should say partially fit...or may not fit slim shapes.  

I feel it would be a real fit *if* one piece of clothing fit all and conformed to each individual shape...which could happen in the future.  I've been wondering if it's possible.

You don't need to answer to every post...that's a choice of yours.  

However, you still didn't address the DEMO situation either.  Everything is pretty much spelled out in the demos even if the booty or boobs are too big for smaller female shapes and/or how it fits.  

So, by the OP's def and your definition, clothing that needs to alpha out bits need to NOT say "fit" when even clothing that does say fit doesn't actually fit all body shapes.  

Edited April 28, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Solar Legion]

29 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Okay you say "fit" means either it fits or you alpha out parts in one of your posts about fit.  

I think a better word is auto hide that's all and that's what I assumed it always was "auto hide" because I did not make up the words.    

I'm just wondering why it is considered "fit" when, for slim shapes, a lot of clothing does not fit...it has booty/boobs built into it.  It just sound like fit is NOT the right word to me, that's all.

I think maybe it should say partially fit...or may not fit slim shapes.  

I feel it would be a real fit *if* one piece of clothing fit all and conformed to each individual shape...which could happen in the future.  I've been wondering if it's possible.

You don't need to answer to every post...that's a choice of yours.  

However, you still didn't address the DEMO situation either.  Everything is pretty much spelled out in the demos even if the booty or boobs are too big for smaller female shapes and/or how it fits.  

So, by the OP's def and your definition clothing that needs to alpha out bits need to not say "fit" when even they don't actually fit all bodies.  

Why yes, what I choose to respond to is indeed my own choice - just as choosing to conflate things (as you did in earlier posts and did in your opening sentence for this one) is your choice.

At no point did I lump auto-hide scripted clothing in with clothing that is designed to fit any specific body. None. I made it very clear that the use of auto-hide is a work around. I even said exactly that in my very first response to you, at the very top of the response.

You are conflating two very different things here - Shapes and the Mesh Body itself. A piece of fitted clothing (properly fitted) will fit the Body itself. This includes the default Shape/Shapes that Body ships with. It does not include (nor should it) each and every personalized Shape.

What you wonder about is already here - somewhat - with Fitted Mesh. Yes, it does need to be refined a bit and that would be rather nice. However one thing that simply will not be possible - without some serious detriment to choice/the market - is the purchase of a clothing item that will fit every single Body out there. Each one has different weights for the skeletal bones.

There's no need to address Demos - in the context of an item being fitted to a particular Body, it either is or it isn't. Demos are only useful for seeing if your particular Shape settings alter that fitting or not.

On a bit of a tangent brought about by your above response: If an item of clothing has been properly fitted to a specific version/variation of a Body then it should be marked as being for that, specific version/variation - not for the Body as a whole.

Using Anthropomorphic Bodies again in an example: The Solarian Feline body has three variants (Male, Female, Femboi) with several different 'default' Shapes (some meant for specific variants). Content Creators for this particular Body will often tell you in the product name, description or even ad image which variant their item is made for (which determines which default Shapes will work as well).

Now yes, that example is for an Anthropomorphic Body, one that sells all three variants as a single, bulk package. The point remains however that not specifying Body variations (when applicable) for an item made to fit a particular Body is - indeed - a problem and ought to be actionable.

In closing this post out: An article of clothing that is made to fit the Body (which includes the Shape it ships with, within reasonable alterations) is being truthful when it states it fits that Body. It is being a bit less than truthful if it states it fits a Body - as a whole - that has variations being sold by the Body's Creator.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Solar Legion

[FairreLilette]

2 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

It either fits (meaning you do not need to alpha out bits of your body) or it does not.

Okay, first of all...this quote thing is wonky this morning.  It isn't working properly.  But, here is your quote above about what "fit" means.  

Okay, the OP wants a particular clothing creator to not say "fit" if you have to alpha out parts according to her, and you agree.  Why did she even buy the thing after trying on a demo when she knows darn well you have to alpha out bits by trying on the demo?  I mean others may like the clothing or a piece or two, so I don't see the big deal.  I prefer auto hide but it doesn't always fit slim shapes.  

As to whether fitmesh does already exist (sorry quote thing isn't working right now) as you state above it kind of does...I think I know the reason why some clothing may not fit smaller shapes is because *perhaps* the creator did not zero out the buttocks nor lower the breasts to allow for more smaller sizes perhaps when the clothing was made then and that is why it won't go smaller.  

But, I still don't know about reviewing something that says fit for a mesh body when it's alpha out bits because some may like those and not mind it.  They will see you have to alpha out bits when they try the demo.  If there is no demo, don't buy it.      

[Solar Legion]

1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

Okay, first of all...this quote thing is wonky this morning.  It isn't working properly.  But, here is your quote above about what "fit" means.  

Okay, the OP wants a particular clothing creator to not say "fit" if you have to alpha out parts according to her, and you agree.  Why did she even buy the thing after trying on a demo when she knows darn well you have to alpha out bits by trying on the demo?  I mean others may like the clothing or a piece or two, so I don't see the big deal.  I prefer auto hide but it doesn't always fit slim shapes.  

As to whether fitmesh does already exist (sorry quote thing isn't working right now) as you state above it kind of does...I think I know the reason why some clothing may not fit smaller shapes is because *perhaps* the creator did not zero out the buttocks nor lower the breasts to allow for more smaller sizes perhaps when the clothing was made then and that is why it won't go smaller.  

But, I still don't know about reviewing something that says fit for a mesh body when it's alpha out bits because some may like those and not mind it.  They will see you have to alpha out bits when they try the demo.  If there is no demo, don't buy it.      

Note that the bit you quoted states - explicitly - that "fit" means it does not require you to alpha out parts of your Body. Also note that - until it was brought up repeatedly as a conflation - no mention whatsoever was made about Shape variation. The assumption being that it was understood that the Body and stock Shapes (the ones that come with the Body) were what was being discussed.

A Demo should only be required/used if you have made specific alterations to (or simply are not using) the Shape that came with the Body - for which the article of clothing, if it is actually fitted to the Body, will simply fit or to see if (assuming they are included in the Demo) a particular color being sold is as pictured/goes well with your wardrobe.

With what can presently be done with Mesh Bodies and Mesh Clothing, the need to use a Demo for normal Clothing items to test their fit simply should not exist or be offered as advice. The item is either properly rigged/fitted to the Body or it isn't. Why it isn't can include exceptions (such as specialty clothing or weighting issues).

If a Body has variations (be it by Gender or Build as shown in my above example) or simply differing stock Shapes then any item/article of clothing that is made for a specific combination of such and claims to fit the Body as a whole ... is - point blank - lying/falsely advertising.

As for the issues with properly fitted Mesh Clothing and some custom Shape alterations, yes you're partly right.

As for the OP - on the one hand, at this stage ion the thread (and when I began to respond to you) I really don't give a toss what they said/meant/what their situation is/was. How they shop is quite irrelevant to this particular branch of the discussion and was irrelevant from the first response that was not to the thread as a whole or that was directed to any specific individual. On the other hand, if they were using a Shape that was heavily customized or buying a specialty item then yes, they really should have used a Demo first.

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Plus, just because it's "fit" (in your word) or auto hide doesn't even mean it fits...the booty or boobs can be built in and I don't like that.  I want to size my own booty yet it's considered "fit"?...no it isn't fit, it has a booty size built in.   Even if I take the buttocks to zero...the booty is still sticking way out and looks ridiculous.  Am I supposed to write a review that the booty sticks way out even at zero buttocks?

My understanding of fit mesh that is rigged to a specific body is that the clothing properly accommodates shape changes to that body. If something is properly rigged to the Maitreya body, it should fit with pretty much all mods of that shape.  So, if your booty is sticking out, then either the clothing is not properly designed & rigged for the body you are using or you are possibly using an add-on to make a part of yourself larger than a normal shape can provide.  Possibly, maxing out the sliders of some parts of the body without keeping other parts in proportion might also prevent properly rigged clothing from adapting to the shape.

As I said, that is simply my understanding of fit mesh rigging , and my understanding of how it SHOULD work may be totally wrong - I am not a clothing creator.

[Solar Legion]

Making this a separate post in response to the above side thread with @FairreLilette: I have a "Humanoid" Body (Jake) that I use and have had to alpha out the occasional bit/bop, usually shoes/boots. Some items do predate the Fitted Mesh features/release of dev kits by the creator. I tend to avoid items that claim to 'fit' the Body yet require the use of alphas or that use auto-hide scripts unless I rather love their design, then I'll put up with it. Do I use a 'custom' shape? Yes, a shape made to be more realistically proportioned and offered by Penny Patton.

Even for the default Shape that comes with the Body itself, some items claim to be fitted when they clearly are not. Such items get a hard pass with the above mentioned exception concerning design.

Boots/shoes are a particular irritation to me as there should be no need to alpha your feet/ankles if such an item is designed to fit over the bloody feet/ankles instead of being their exact size/dimensions. That is not how such things bloody work. They should cover, not replace.

[FairreLilette]

2 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

My understanding of fit mesh that is rigged to a specific body is that the clothing properly accommodates shape changes to that body. If something is properly rigged to the Maitreya body, it should fit with pretty much all mods of that shape.  So, if your booty is sticking out, then either the clothing is not properly designed & rigged for the body you are using or you are possibly using an add-on to make a part of yourself larger than a normal shape can provide.  Possibly, maxing out the sliders of some parts of the body without keeping other parts in proportion might also prevent properly rigged clothing from adapting to the shape.

As I said, that is simply my understanding of fit mesh rigging , and my understanding of how it SHOULD work may be totally wrong - I am not a clothing creator.

Yes, I can understand, to some degree, fitmesh is fitmesh...or it should be in theory anyhow...however, with smaller shapes it is a problem with some designers...I never said all.  As to why some designers who may have fitmesh that does not allow a smaller buttocks I'm not really sure nor why when I have smaller breasts I look like I have a 65 to 80 inch real life bust is beyond me and I'm not talking sliders at 65...I mean real life 65" bust.  I have to adjust my darn shape and lower my bust from 57 on the slider to about as low as it can go and that takes time and then I have to enlarge my bust again for other clothing that actually does conform to my actual avatar breast slider.  So fitmesh isn't working on a lot of slim shapes for some reason or they are not fitmesh as the OP is explaining then even though they claim to be.  Hmmmmmmmmmm?  On some of these it appears they are fitmesh because they do fit well in certain areas.  

I'm kind of with a forumite who said in another thread that SL items are just made weird and she put a funny face but that is kind of true.  Some of them are.  I've seen and tried on clothing here that fits or doesn't fit in all kinds of ways.  The one I really hate is the shoulder thing and I recommended people take off their hair to make sure it is fitting in the shoulder area because that could be a sign this isn't fit for a mesh body or it's poorly made.  

Maybe to the OP, not that she needs to take my advice at all...but maybe she could turn things around and make a blog of items that are a really good "fitmesh".  There may be a lot of people who might be interested in that.  Just a suggestion.  Or, she could do both...state one is very poor fitmesh but heres a list of stores with great fitmesh for example.  

And, I wasn't sure when the OP said the item was not fit for a mesh body...I wasn't sure if she was talking about fitmesh.  I think she is then but, again, I wasn't sure. 

As far as the creator's hassling her...I say 100% wrong.  She should send that to the Lindens.  No creator has a right to do that.  They could offer an exchange but perhaps they thought since she bought a demo she shouldn't have bought the item at all then.  Leaving a review in the demo is okay if she did that and she should not have been hassled about it.  However, I am conjecturing, the OP did not give enough information.   If they didn't put fitmesh but put fit then I'd leave it alone personally if it were me.  If a creator puts fitmesh it should be fitmesh.   The only other thing that may have happened to the OP is she was searching for fitmesh and typed fitmesh in the search box...but the search also brought up the word fit and she thought it was fitmesh.   Maybe a box to check fitmesh is needed. 

Correction:  Perhaps rigged or unrigged mesh boxes are what is needed.  I'm not sure of the exact terminology here as fitmesh can also be for Classic sizes which is very confusing to me.  This needs someone with higher understanding of these terms to explain how this could work better for searches by having boxes the creator's have checked and so many of us can find what we are looking for by simply checking rigged or unrigged.  Being able to check Mesh, Partial Mesh and Non-mesh for furniture would be great, too.  Just some suggestions on my part.   Something needs to be done so we can find what we are looking for OR not looking for.  Marketplace just needs more search features and needs to get into the 21st Century.  

Edited April 28, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Odaks]

I have never understood the intrigues of fitted/rigged mesh but, as a user of these items, I have come to realise that things never turn out perfectly. This is Second Life, after all, and if perfection is expected, you're living in cloud-cuckoo-land! 

Having said that, I'm with @Solar Legion on this - if a creator says its fits "Xbody", it should fit, without recourse to trickery like manually or auto-applied alphas. However, I'm also acutely aware that that "fit" will have been designed around the offered shape that was supplied with the body. The mesh of the clothing will deform to maintain that fit, as you alter the provided shape to suit your personal taste, but only within certain limits. When you alter things too far, the fit starts to fail dramatically.

I'm still trying to get my head round the issue of when a bit of my breasts breaks through clothing, often the solution is to make them bigger, not smaller! Maybe one day I'll figure this all out.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Odaks

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, Odaks said:

if a creator says its fits "Xbody", it should fit, without recourse to trickery like manually or auto-applied alphas. However, I'm also acutely aware that that "fit"

Yes, in theory, except no one can control all the listings here and what creators write.  So, I proposed more check boxes so consumers can more easily find what they are or are not looking for.  Boxes to check for rigged/unrigged....mesh/partial mesh/non-mesh.  Second Life's search engine could use some improvement.  

However, the OP doesn't even say if she bought inworld or on MP.  Inworld, not as much control.  Marketplace has ways to narrow down our searches to find more of what we are or aren't looking for.  I see a need for more search features on SL MP, imo 'cause it kind of looks like the dark ages.    

Edited April 28, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Beth Macbain]

Skipping all the back and forth that I usually enjoy... sure, someone is free to start a blog about all their negative experiences with creators. I've had a few bad interactions over the years, but not enough to fill a blog. Makes me wonder...

Also, what if the creators all got together and created a blog where they named all the customers they've had negative experiences with? 

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

On 4/28/2020 at 3:46 PM, Beth Macbain said:

Also, what if the creators all got together and created a blog where they named all the customers they've had negative experiences with? 

There is some that do this, either by blog or by putting them in their picks on their profile as a way to shame them. I know of several people that do.

[Polenth Yue]

On 4/28/2020 at 9:46 PM, Beth Macbain said:

Skipping all the back and forth that I usually enjoy... sure, someone is free to start a blog about all their negative experiences with creators. I've had a few bad interactions over the years, but not enough to fill a blog. Makes me wonder...

Also, what if the creators all got together and created a blog where they named all the customers they've had negative experiences with? 

If I feel someone is doing something that others need to be warned about, I'd certainly tell people. But most bad experiences are simply people being rude that one time. That's a lot of time to take on writing up complaints and dealing with the fallout. It'd create more drama than someone with an "I don't like drama" profile. I like to consider which battles are worth fighting so that I don't end up doing nothing other than fighting.

Which is the potential risk the original poster faces. It might be all the complaints are valid, but whether it's worth following up on them is another matter.

[AyelaNewLife]

On 4/28/2020 at 7:23 PM, Odaks said:

Having said that, I'm with @Solar Legion on this - if a creator says its fits "Xbody", it should fit, without recourse to trickery like manually or auto-applied alphas.

This is not the case.

Creators rig clothing to fit a mesh body. Alpha slices are an integral part of that mesh body which cannot and should not be separated from the body itself. Regardless of their academic origins, alpha slices are now intentionally taken into account in the design process, and it would be intellectually dishonest to accuse creators of rigging stuff badly when their creators are designs to incorporate these features.

Exhibit A: a creator I often wear does not like the extremely prominent nipples that are featured on the popular mesh body brands. She has three options to dealing with the issue:

1. Build in nipple bumps into her tops. This often detracts from the design intent of the top, and can be particularly nonsensical with certain fabrics and styles.
2. Inflate the breast area to compensate for the raised nipple. This can result in a noticeably larger bust than the naked body should possess, particularly at smaller bust sizes.
3. Set up the clothing to alpha out the nipple, and follow the contours of the breast.

She went for option 3. That is an intentional design choice, which ensures her product is more faithful to the body than the alternative, while keeping true to her design. Trying to argue that this hypothetical top is somehow not designed to fit the body just seems wrong, and disconnected from reality.

[Cinos Field]

34 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

This is not the case.

Creators rig clothing to fit a mesh body. Alpha slices are an integral part of that mesh body which cannot and should not be separated from the body itself. Regardless of their academic origins, alpha slices are now intentionally taken into account in the design process, and it would be intellectually dishonest to accuse creators of rigging stuff badly when their creators are designs to incorporate these features.

Exhibit A: a creator I often wear does not like the extremely prominent nipples that are featured on the popular mesh body brands. She has three options to dealing with the issue:

1. Build in nipple bumps into her tops. This often detracts from the design intent of the top, and can be particularly nonsensical with certain fabrics and styles.
2. Inflate the breast area to compensate for the raised nipple. This can result in a noticeably larger bust than the naked body should possess, particularly at smaller bust sizes.
3. Set up the clothing to alpha out the nipple, and follow the contours of the breast.

She went for option 3. That is an intentional design choice, which ensures her product is more faithful to the body than the alternative, while keeping true to her design. Trying to argue that this hypothetical top is somehow not designed to fit the body just seems wrong, and disconnected from reality.

The opposite. If someone claims an outfit fits, I expect it to fit without needing alpha cuts. If alpha cuts are needed, the creator should inform the buyer about that.

This includes my nipples. Perhaps designing for a body with less prominent nipples would be a better idea for said creator.

Either that, or full transparency. Failing to tell prospective buyers about shortcomings or eccentric design choices they won't be expecting is deceptive. The default is "fits the body it was made for, as it is, within reason".

Edited April 30, 2020 by Cinos Field

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

Well sure, clothes should fit the bodies they are sold for, but residents can easily break the most perfectly fitted clothes by maxing out (or in) a few sliders on their shapes.  So then what?  The alpha cuts are there for a reason; all body HUDs have them, so it's hardly the end of the world to blip out a bit of arm or whatever to prevent breakage.  Anyone who is so immersed that they can't bear the idea of part of their mesh body underneath clothing being invisible should probably think about getting out more.  Not yet, obviously, stay at home and wash your hands, but as soon as they can.  

[AyelaNewLife]

1 hour ago, Cinos Field said:

The default is "fits the body it was made for, as it is, within reason".

This might be true on a theoretical, academic level, but it's not how things play out in reality.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

I can appreciate a garment that is so well made that I don't need to use alpha cuts or a system alpha under it -- but I don't tend to get all that uptight when I have to hide a shoulder or part of an arm. I have pretty standard slider settings (although, because I'm using RL proportions, my arms are longer and head bigger than the norm), so I pretty rarely have this problem.

What actually does kind of annoy me, sometimes, a bit, but not enough to really rant about it, is kind of the opposite problem: when a dress or top gifts me with larger boobs than my avi actually has.

I'm not sure whether that's poor rigging, or that the creator has decided that "buxom" is the look they're going for, and we'd better just accept it, but it's not a look I like, personally, and I'd prefer not to have it forced upon me by my clothing.

[Beth Macbain]

I'm in between expecting my boobs to be my size, and not insanely buxom, and wanting to not have to alpha out or hide my mesh nips (in their flattened state). I tend to wear a lot of sheer clothing and my nips are dark - darker than the default nip shade that comes with my skin. Wearing a sheer top without them makes it look like my nips aren't my nips. I don't think it's asking a lot for designers to leave that tiny little bit of space built in, especially when it's sheer clothing. There is one particular designer who makes beautiful sheer clothing... but my girls can't be my girls in her designs. 

If it's opaque clothing that covers everything, using the alpha cuts is NBD. But when it's sheer, or skimpy, and it clips... the look is destroyed. I've found this especially troublesome around the elbows when the arms are bent, armpits when the arms are over the head, under-boob and butt cheeks when not standing perfectly still. To me, that's poor rigging. I have some that don't clip, so I know it's not impossible. 

When designing for us heaux, rig it for our heaux bodies! 😜

[FairreLilette]

3 hours ago, Cinos Field said:

Failing to tell prospective buyers about shortcomings or eccentric design choices they won't be expecting is deceptive. The default is "fits the body it was made for, as it is, within reason".

You can't "really" design clothing for the Maitreya Lara "within reason" as it comes with five starter shapes.  So there would need to be five clothings fitted to the five starter shapes for Maitreya.  Not to mention, most people want to make their own kind of shape.

Couldn't designers just zero out the butt and make the breasts smaller because things will go larger from there?  If it's made too big, it cannot go smaller.  Some designers do zero out the butt, they must...because their clothing fits smaller slimmer figures and conforms to my actual buttocks size on the slider.  

Here's a photo of my human avatar trying on what is a fitmesh garmet.  The buttocks is too large even though you can see I have set the buttocks to zero.  Other creators can allow for all kinds of buttocks shapes...why can't others?   If they zero out the buttocks to accommodate for smaller shapes as well as larger, they make more sales.  However, my buttocks is NOT set at zero...I have to zero it out to see how small the garment can go for a slim shape.  And, for this example...it does not go smaller as you can see...so therefore they lose a sale.  What I am saying is other clothing designers can do it properly, why not others?  They'd have more business so it would only be to their benefit.  

Edited April 30, 2020 by FairreLilette