People still use classic avatars instead of bento heads and bodies?

[Blaise Glendevon]

11 hours ago, BeautifulXu said:

it should be offered as a free change. the price has been going up from what had been for now for years. we pay enough, too much! Let the rich spend millions on what is supposed to be a game!

Who is going to compensate the creators for the sometimes months or years spent developing and updating their third party products? Are you suggesting Second Life pay designers to offer free products? Would they just be for Premium users? Because that would lead to the weeping and wailing from non-Premiums, and from other brand owners accusing the Lab of playing favorites and trying to drive them out of business (like the land barons did after Linden Homes dropped).

[DeepBlueJoy]

On 4/25/2020 at 9:57 AM, FairreLilette said:

I make slim shapes for mesh bodies but do not sell them.   I have one for free right now in my MP store - it's not the greatest shape although you could copy down the slider numbers of what you like and try some of them on your shape.  IOW, you copy down my slider numbers and then change your shape to those slider numbers that way it doesn't mess up your Classic head if you get a mesh body.  I'm working on one now that I feel is one of the best "slim" shapes I've made so far...I dunno if I will offer the one I'm making now for free though, but maybe.  I was a mesh body and Classic head for a long time.  I felt the body would be easier to work with and understand with all the appliers for example so I started to learn mesh avatars with a mesh body first.   

Shape classes would not be a bad idea if SL had them, imo, especially for mesh avatars because you cannot have two shapes - one for the head and one for the body which I think is difficult to grasp when a newbie into mesh avatars.  

My avatar badge here for the forum has a mesh body and a Classic head; it's slim as you can see.  

i so wish I had a way to make head shapes and/or body shapes.  My basic solution is that I've created several body shapes around the same basic head shape so instead of editing my body each time to wear some of my ultra slim/bustless clothes, I just wear my small bust version and my med bust and normal bust version.  but, yes, I've often wanted to use shapes from some maker or other, and usually don't bother b/c recreating my head's look would be way too much work.  Of course, separate shapes for head and body would make things even more complex.

[Rudegerus Osterham]

On 4/22/2020 at 10:36 PM, Nalates Urriah said:

I suspect that as more people figure out BOM Mesh bodies and heads mesh will become even more popular. I see it combining the simplicity of the Classic avatar with the better looking mesh bodies and heads.

Yeah, I think so too. And for females right now there is a Genesis head for $L55, and the Legacy Classic is free (also the male version). The harder part is clothes for them, but that's another discussion. 

Back to the OP. My limited, non-scientific poll over the last week, is it depends on where you go. Fogbounds seems about 80+% mesh. Muddys, the mesh slightly edges out system. Crossroads was more system. The usual disclaimers about small sample sets applies.

It is also very possible to build a decent system body. I have seen some classic bodies I would swear were mesh, and vice versa.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Rudegerus Osterham
additional comments.

[Parhelion Palou]

Parts of SL just aren't that interested in avatar appearance. The education/nonprofit community is still majority system body. I know some who still use the avatar they started with in 2005. They're in SL to work. They don't tend to have homes or get out into the rest of SL much, so trends elsewhere don't take hold.

[Amorenna Bae]

On 4/21/2020 at 12:07 AM, xBaeBeex said:

..i think im going to come off as the av snob here, the av mesh snob.. and an av mesh snob thats only been in SL for 1 year almost.

I really really dont like the system stuff. And im sorry for that.. but i just.. I dont get it, ive seen names and people who, when i check their profiles they've been on 7 or 8 years and still look like they've been in SL for 1 day as a noob. .. can call mesh users "barbies" but some of us will look at system user accounts and wonder why in 8 years it looks like you havent done anything to your account. .. with some shops and designers offering next to nothing free bobies and even genus with a free head, and 7DS with a BOM free skin.. so much stuff avaliable.. so "id rather spend my money else where" kinda doesnt cut it when i see so much desigbers are willing to give. And also, if your playing second life and took the time to learn it and still willing to log in after 8 years of playing, you would somewhere have even 10 or 15 dollars to put in to at least.. at the least..get a body? .. Im sorry.. i just.. yeah.. 

So at the expense of calling the rest of us "barbies" or "plastic" or other names ... please dont.. coz some of us would be willing to help anyone that wanted help to upgrade. .

 

SL is just like RL in that some people just dgaf how they look. Just because it's free, doesn't mean it's good, and/or desired. Some might not know how to upgrade. My poor partner was running around in a pretty outdated mesh combo avatar wearing the same outfit for 3 years...simply because he had no idea where to start. And it's not going to be common that you'll ask a perfect stranger to help you upgrade, nor would they say even yes. Do you know how long that actually takes? He and I spent almost 5 hours doing it together (on the phone!) and I'm not a novice.

And, I'd argue that it's hard to know how many people are mesh vs system because those who are mesh / system tend to hang around different places, at least from experience.

[Blaise Glendevon]

6 hours ago, Parhelion Palou said:

Parts of SL just aren't that interested in avatar appearance. The education/nonprofit community is still majority system body. I know some who still use the avatar they started with in 2005. They're in SL to work. They don't tend to have homes or get out into the rest of SL much, so trends elsewhere don't take hold.

That doesn't strike me as being good for their marketability. If they want to stretch out past their little bubble to bring people in, they're going to have to get current. Hell, even the Lindens have gotten on board. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Blaise Glendevon

[Ginger Shostakovich]

My main is a system avatar - I've been here too long and collected too many things to switch her to a mesh avatar. Also, I really like how I look, how she evolved over time. 

I have an alt which is mesh (Maitreya / Catwa) because I got fed up by all the new clothes being mesh which won't fit my main, so she goes shopping a lot... 

[Marianne Little]

6 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

That doesn't strike me as being good for their marketability. If they want to stretch out past their little bubble to bring people in, they're going to have to get current. Hell, even the Lindens have gotten on board. 

If it was one who rented out land or was scripting I would not care. But if it was one who made mesh products for apparel and avatar appearance I would be thinking, why aren't you wearing your products??

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

On 4/18/2020 at 7:11 PM, polygonmonster said:

Question, how many people roughly still use classic avatars instead of bento heads and bodies? I'm very curious about those who don't decide to spent money on this meshes.

about 2028 people use classic avatards.  People who do not buy mesh are either poor or just do not care that other people think they should be using mesh.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Tarina Sewell
I just made that number up cause how the heck are we supposed to know?

[LadyBlkJaguar46]

I am an old player I leave and come back a few years ago when the Mash came out, I bought an eve  Mash Body it took me hours to put it on but I did, that was back in 2016 ,sense than I could never add outfits, I just don't know how to save them to save my life, and cause you can't people look down on you for being old, not knowing how, and for wearing the old skin, I read , and watch you tube to try and understand but, just get more confused, I love the Mash body , and have tried on many I can add the bodies, just not the outfits, it's so frustrating 

[Rudegerus Osterham]

I work as an analyst in RL, so this seemed like a fun data collection exercise. As I was out and about at events this weekend I ran the "what is she wearing" HUD and make tick-marks on a piece of paper if it reported any mesh component. I didn't count how many were full mesh, or only mesh body, or male or female. I ended up having to throw out 19 results because a sim blocked scripts, and later I was wrong on my "classic or mesh" guess and decided to only go with a verifiable collection method.

It is still a small sample set, but it came down to this: Mesh, 102; System, 20. I would only collect data once at a place, even if I was there multiple times. So, I am at Fogs a lot, so I only collected data once, I wanted to track unique locations.

Because I am me, I might over the course of time write a few scripts on my computer to parse out the common heads and bodies. Mainly because text file manipulation like this should be something I am better at professionally.

[ballparkdogg]

On 4/29/2020 at 2:24 AM, Blaise Glendevon said:

Who is going to compensate the creators for the sometimes months or years spent developing and updating their third party products? Are you suggesting Second Life pay designers to offer free products? Would they just be for Premium users? Because that would lead to the weeping and wailing from non-Premiums, and from other brand owners accusing the Lab of playing favorites and trying to drive them out of business (like the land barons did after Linden Homes dropped).

The ones that offer a free product are remember too.  I never heard of Genus till I got the free female mesh head for my alt

[Blaise Glendevon]

8 minutes ago, ballparkdogg said:

The ones that offer a free product are remember too.  I never heard of Genus till I got the free female mesh head for my alt

And I'm sure they calculated that into the price of making a full-featured head and offering it for free. 

[Blaise Glendevon]

On 5/2/2020 at 2:15 AM, Ginger Shostakovich said:

My main is a system avatar - I've been here too long and collected too many things to switch her to a mesh avatar. Also, I really like how I look, how she evolved over time. 

I have an alt which is mesh (Maitreya / Catwa) because I got fed up by all the new clothes being mesh which won't fit my main, so she goes shopping a lot... 

Why didn't you just add the avatar and the mesh to your current inventory?

[BraveHot]

With rose tinted specs I still see my early times in SL as the best ones. That's because everything was new, I was extremely lucky with the people I met who took very good care of me, and I fell head over heels in love (we are still very good friends). I looked fairly decent back then, face wise, as I was gifted a shape that was easy to tweak to my own liking and the maker was a very talented guy.

Was happy until I really discovered how my feet looked. Once you see that, it cannot be unseen. So Slink feet it was, when they came out. Difficult at first, but I got it eventually. Then the hands some time later. Kinda the same thing, only less urgent - they are less bad than the system feet. But I never would have gone back after that.

Later it was "let's try that Slink Hourglass". Would never go back pre that either. A mesh bikini that actually fitted? Hallelujah.

But when I comes to mesh heads, I've demoed lots, but never found one I like. I still have my system head, and the same shape that was gifted to me way back then. Works great with Hourglass, and system skins that matched it got lots better too (thanks, 7DS). I still get compliments on it. Wear what you like, I will never judge either way, but I spend quite a bit of time in shops, and many of the mesh heads people use just do not look like in the ads, many just look weird and lifeless and very similar. System heads can look at least, if not more, life like (in some cases, of course).

Maybe I'll start to see that differently with time as well. Although I'm in much less hurry to get a mesh head now that BOM has arrived. What I guess I'm trying to get at is that I can see several sides here

Edited May 4, 2020 by BraveHot

[Elisaisabel Munro]

You can do pretty good without a mesh head.  There is BOM now to use it with mesh bodies because the system body is a mess. 

Those heads have many sliders not working, so I feel my avie won't be as I really want, even tho those cost a fortune in many cases.  You pay nothing for system heads and have all the sliders on to work for your unique face.

Mesh bodies have trouble too, because they have a shape that can't be change too.. somebody them aren't anatomically accurate (most)

For my main I still have my system avie.  I don't think any head can match the shape I want (me in RL) and I REALLY hate appliers.  With BOM for almost a year now, skin creators should offer in their skin packs system/BOM skins too (never wore skin appliers, never will)

[Alec Kaestner]

On 4/18/2020 at 7:53 PM, LittleMe Jewell said:

I have a mesh body, but still use my classic head.  It's not really about money (or at least not totally) but more about being comfortable with my current look and so far not being able to achieve something close enough in the mesh heads that I've played with.  I don't see any reason to spend roughly $20 US on something that I'm only so-so about.

Still running /c classic avatar shapes, skins here.

Haven't seen much reason to change, although, truth be told, it's probably due to sheer laziness on my part. I did spend a lot of lindens (in the day) to buy this shape, and I LIKE it, dangnabbit!

Of course, my RP group has started educating us on MESH heads, etc, for general avatar customization and education.

We'll see if this old dog can learn new tricks.

 

[Hawthorne Gray]

I drift in and out of SL - but I always come back hungry to express myself by creating a new environments - through prim design, region building, scripting, graphics to environmental editing. So, I'm no newbie. But I can't make sense of this mesh tech. Mesh heads? Bodies? I've tried demos, have no idea what BOM is and can find no guidance that explains what this is all about except in the most cursory of ways.

This whole topic makes me think: maybe I just need to move on, what's the point?

Edited May 10, 2020 by Hawthorne Gray
additional info

[Hawthorne Gray]

Also, I'm not a newbie, I've been with SL since 2006.

[Nalates Urriah]

2 minutes ago, Hawthorne Gray said:

Also, I'm not a newbie, I've been with SL since 2006.

I am puzzled that you have been around so long and have yet to figure out there are hundreds of tutorials on each aspect of SL, both in and out of world, with new ones appearing every day.

As to the point of... do you mean of SL or your quest to understand? 

For me the point of SL is entertainment, fun, socializing, experimenting with human interaction, learning... much the same as RL. 

Have you considered whether the quarantine confinement and lack of exercise is affecting your thinking?

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 hours ago, Hawthorne Gray said:

Also, I'm not a newbie, I've been with SL since 2006.

The 'Newbie' under your name here has to do with the Forums only.  You are a newbie in that context, with only 4 posts here.  That title will change over time and after 500 posts, you can change it yourself to whatever you want it to say.

[Ajay McDowwll]

On 4/23/2020 at 12:23 AM, FairreLilette said:

<snipped for brevity>

Is there any reason to care, other than maybe you want to date in SL?  I never came to SL to date anyone period.  I came for the creativity and a bit of socialization.  

I was hesitant about a mesh body and head for several reasons:  time (I was building), I didn't understand all the appliers, and the cost.  I couldn't justify spending about $40 for a mesh avatar when I build most of the time and no one hardly ever sees me although I did go to clubs for a break from building occasionally, and I do not want to have an internet romantic relationship...I am in SL for friends only.  

</end snipping>

There are plenty of reasons to opt for a mesh head and body outside of dating.  I ended up getting a mesh body within a week of my return to SL because it was easier to find clothing with one of the named mesh bodies (plus at that point I had ZERO clue how to create an alpha layer for my system body).  I ended up going with a mesh head because I tried a bunch of demos for the heck of it, and finally found one I liked that would reasonably replicate my system head's features with the judicious application of sliders... well, except for the woeful profile of my nose 😛  But obviously I can live with it.

Just because someone's a mesh human doesn't mean they're looking to date, and I... really kind of hate that assumption.  I'm in a monogamous marriage, and I'm pretty danged clear in my profile that I'm here for friends, period.  I'm not the only person in that situation, either.  I like my mesh body and head for the smoother contours, for the ease of finding mesh clothing rigged for the body, and for the sheer aesthetics that please me. 

I personally don't give a rat's rosy rear end what anyone else chooses to use for their avatar.  I have friends in the nonprofit community and outside of it who are strictly system avatars, either because their focus is outside the fashion realm, or because they prefer their system look to anything they've seen available in mesh.  I have friends who typically run around SL as dinosaurs, Dinkies, and in one case, a sugar glider.  It's the person driving the avatar, rather than the avatar components, who ultimately makes the biggest impression.

Regarding Dinkies and the lack of complexity, I will give you that exists with the base Dinkie avatar.  I happen to have one myself, because the club where I work has a Dinkie set and I find it more entertaining to attend as a tiny cat (plus that "run" trigger is hilarious!) rather than as a humanoid.  I have to say, though, that I see a wide variation in ARC for the Dinkie population as well, depending on the outfits they've chosen, including costs well over 100K.  I myself had to get more outfits for my Dinkie avatar when I realized my original choice ended up putting my ARC at over 60K.  For a DINKIE.  Newp!  Not for me.  Now I have an outfit that puts my Dinkie avatar at or around 20K, which is fabulous.  So... it's not the human avatars necessarily causing lag; it's the complexity of the choices made by all the avatars.

/endrant

Edited May 12, 2020 by Ajay McDowwll
Semicolons are fabulous.

[Sassy Kenin]

Not only do some still use the system legacy body, I stumbled on this blog article that gave me a huge smile while holding back eyes turned misty .

''When they log in, they have a classic body and old classic clothes. And they love SecondLife.

I’ve visited a thousand tiny shops where no sales may ever be made, where the ladies who own that shop put every ounce of effort they had in their being into attempting to make 6-7 pieces of ladies classic clothing more than ten years ago. It's sold on an SL prim that sells a copy of the contents, and the vendor texture can be very humble. They pay their rent for a decade for their humble shop, they log into to SL and they get to look at their “business” they own.'' - Luther Weymann

Edited May 14, 2020 by Sassy Kenin
Ninja Edit to Fix Link

[Marianne Little]

5 hours ago, Sassy Kenin said:

Not only do some still use the system legacy body, I stumbled on this blog article that gave me a huge smile while holding back eyes turned misty .

''When they log in, they have a classic body and old classic clothes. And they love SecondLife.

I’ve visited a thousand tiny shops where no sales may ever be made, where the ladies who own that shop put every ounce of effort they had in their being into attempting to make 6-7 pieces of ladies classic clothing more than ten years ago. It's sold on an SL prim that sells a copy of the contents, and the vendor texture can be very humble. They pay their rent for a decade for their humble shop, they log into to SL and they get to look at their “business” they own.'' - Luther Weymann

That article is arguing two different points of view:

A: "SL has been a salvation for many people. It’s their only thing that takes them away from looking around where they are and finally escaping."

B: "They own a business and I’ve watched them reduce their prices to pennies just to get one sale a year.

If you don’t know that billions of us on this earth lead lives of quiet desperation, you don’t know what the hell is going on with Second Life."

So what is it, a salvation or a place where people lives in quiet desperation?

To top it, the article is illustrated by a mesh house in a new developed Linden Homes region, while the article is about "I know a tiny shop hovering on a small parcel on one of the first regions, and it’s owned by a severely disabled woman who has had the 512 parcel since 2003 with her shop. It has the year 2003-2004 block furniture, block bed, some particle things, one of those red pins used for landmarks. It’s her pride and joy that she could make this while almost blind, with parts of her body missing while she is in a wheelchair." Why not use this as an illustration?

Maybe I remember it wrong, but I heard that some of the very, very new users of Second Life got a parcel for life. Forgive me if I remember wrong.

The stipend back from the early days, has paid the annual premium and still does, because it is higher than today's 300 L. (500 L) Even after the cost of Premium increased, the stipend cover that.

Why pity those who has land in Second Life for free, they get back enough stipend to pay for Premium? Are they not a privileged class instead?

If they still use SL, and it is their pride and joy, nothing better than that. Unless they do not log in anymore, and they are billed because they have forgotten SL. But in that case, they have enough so they do not notice it.

With the latest free mesh avatar gifts, anyone can own a mesh body if they want. But why should they do it, when they are satisfied with a system body? Does not that make them powerful because they have self-confidence and does not care about outer beauty? That is what I have heard, not that people with ten - fifteen year old avatars are humble.

Compare that to any other business who also has no sales, and has spent many thousands of §L on a brand new mesh build, vendors and landscaping around. And their land is not free. They pay and pay, until they are forced to close business. It is enough of them.

I do not like articles like this one, in my brain they come out as just shy of cloying.

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Marianne Little
added a word

[Sassy Kenin]

2 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

That article is arguing two different points of view:

A: "SL has been a salvation for many people. It’s their only thing that takes them away from looking around where they are and finally escaping."

B: "They own a business and I’ve watched them reduce their prices to pennies just to get one sale a year.

If you don’t know that billions of us on this earth lead lives of quiet desperation, you don’t know what the hell is going on with Second Life."

So what is it, a salvation or a place where people lives in quiet desperation?

To top it, the article is illustrated by a mesh house in a new developed Linden Homes region, while the article is about "I know a tiny shop hovering on a small parcel on one of the first regions, and it’s owned by a severely disabled woman who has had the 512 parcel since 2003 with her shop. It has the year 2003-2004 block furniture, block bed, some particle things, one of those red pins used for landmarks. It’s her pride and joy that she could make this while almost blind, with parts of her body missing while she is in a wheelchair." Why not use this as an illustration?

Maybe I remember it wrong, but I heard that some of the very, very new users of Second Life got a parcel for life. Forgive me if I remember wrong.

The stipend back from the early days, has paid the annual premium and still does, because it is higher than today's 300 L. (500 L) Even after the cost of Premium increased, the stipend cover that.

Why pity those who has land in Second Life for free, they get back enough stipend to pay for Premium? Are they not a privileged class instead?

If they still use SL, and it is their pride and joy, nothing better than that. Unless they do not log in anymore, and they are billed because they have forgotten SL. But in that case, they have enough so they do not notice it.

With the latest free mesh avatar gifts, anyone can own a mesh body if they want. But why should they do it, when they are satisfied with a system body? Does not that make them powerful because they have self-confidence and does not care about outer beauty? That is what I have heard, not that people with ten - fifteen year old avatars are humble.

Compare that to any other business who also has no sales, and has spent many thousands of §L on a brand new mesh build, vendors and landscaping around. And their land is not free. They pay and pay, until they are forced to close business. It is enough of them.

I do not like articles like this one, in my brain they come out as just shy of cloying.

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you pointed out, it does seem more like a well painted story then whats really going on. seems more likely how things might have been 10 yrs back when mesh first came in, all those sleeping prim builders. there is some truth in the classic body and old classic clothes part of very older/disabled residents kinda stuck in one place. 

I just thought it might give some perspective why some choose not to update the avatar.