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polygonmonster

People still use classic avatars instead of bento heads and bodies?

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6 hours ago, HydrangeaRose said:

I have the Genus Strong gift head, and eBody and Classic/Legacy whatever gift mesh body. I can't afford to spend money in game like I used to be able to (pre mesh heads and bodies). I've just started trying them out today, but the eyes on my head are rolled back or way too high, and I can't figure out how to fix it. I might just go back to the plain ole' SL avatar if I can't sort it out. It's worked well enough for me thus far.

I have heard a lot about how the Genus eyes had this glitch, so I was positively surprised when I tried on the head and eyes. They look like this when I wear GENUS Project - Genus Eyes v1.4 with the eyes alpha. It is an eye setting in the GENUS Project - Basic Animation HUD v1.3 where you can try to play with the settings. It is the eye with arrows around that you can use to look up/down/to the sides. But I have not used it. I wear the eyes with the .euphoric ~Hope  Eyes  Applier ~[Genus] applier. (Free group gift in store)

Ilyri_001.jpg.87b8b0283908eeaa8c5c7e61b41ed4cc.jpg

On my other Genus head user, I am using the unrigged eyes I had, since I wanted to keep the look, and the eyes are not updated with appliers. I show a screen shot how it looks when I edit them. I use pose stand in the viewer (Firestorm) or you can use a ordinary posestand if you don't have Firestorm. I attach this clever free HUD, AnyPose Expression HUD v1.0. Its animations are useless for a mesh head, but it still works well for eye position. I pose the eyes to stare straight forward and begin to edit one eye. When it looks good, I copy the position settings to the other.

sad_004.jpg.facf3b0b4b96bc10ebbe151661dd5f39.jpg

Now comes the best: I use different eye positions to make sure no part of the eyes clip through the head when they move. In this case you can see the eye pop out slightly. It means I have to either move the eyes a tiny little bit closer to the nose (both eyes) or a tiny bit deeper in the head.

sad_005.jpg.2c68a10ac611dabd0096f8d3ef4143a6.jpg

I write it so detailed, because it can be people new to editing who read this thread.

I am used to editing mesh eyes, I did this all the time with mesh eyes and the classic avatar. So it is not a new thing.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, DeepBlueJoy said:

I understand that there's something in the design of heads and bodies that is different, so the way they're put together can never perfectly mesh.  

It's too bad that making a complete mesh avatar with no detachable parts isn't in the works or at least thought as one whole mesh avatar may be less lag.  However, I have bought inexpensive whole mesh avatars for Halloween events and they are far lower in triangles and way less laggy.  So, it might not even by a 'may be'...if mesh avatars were all meshed together there would probably be less lag.  

To the OP:  My Dinkie avatar that I wear is 17K triangles and is a whole meshed avatar; my Maitreya mesh body is 150K triangles just for body/hands/feet naked; then adding head, hair, clothes - it goes way up in triangles.  When I am a Dinkie in SL, lag is gone until too many large triangle human mesh avatars show up.  I wanted to change to a Dinkie in SL.  I did not know my lag would be gone until I was living a SL as a Dinkie.  

The lag is an issue too with high triangle human avatars.  I've had far more fun as a Dinkie with no lag...but I am not looking for any kind of internet partner as I said in my last post...so it is a lot more fun in low lag avatars since I am just looking for friends and light-hearted discussion inworld.   

I hate the lag.  

Also, I stated in my other post it took me 3 years to buy Catya but I am still not thrilled with the lip.  However, I waited 3 years to see if more mesh head styles would become available and they didn't.  So, I'm going to give Catya by Catwa a try but it isn't what I really, really want.  I want a head that is more modifiable.  Mesh heads, you could consider, are partial modify.  

My computer is good enough to render stuff...in my real life building we only have wifi as an option.  I cannot get a more stable or robust internet connection.  Wifi is it - the only option.   So rendering high triangle human mesh avatars isn't a very good experience - it's very laggy.   But, after my lockdown experience with my landlord...a move may be something I want.   

Edited by FairreLilette

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Yo tampoco los uso, sigo con mi avatar de siempre, que me encanta y para el que tengo montones de ropa y complementos, para la ropa nueva solo tengo que modificar un poco mi cuerpo y ya, todo perfecto, no necesito mas, ni complicarme la vida para nada, reconozco que alguna vez pensé en cambiar pero lo que encontré no era ni de lejos como mi avatar así que desistí. En definitiva me quedo como estoy.

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Just now, Isabela Niki said:

Yo tampoco los uso, sigo con mi avatar de siempre, que me encanta y para el que tengo montones de ropa y complementos, para la ropa nueva solo tengo que modificar un poco mi cuerpo y ya, todo perfecto, no necesito mas, ni complicarme la vida para nada, reconozco que alguna vez pensé en cambiar pero lo que encontré no era ni de lejos como mi avatar así que desistí. En definitiva me quedo como estoy.

Interesante. Me pregunto, sueles comprar ropa en eventos para tu avatar clásico? ¿Sabes si de casualidad existen eventos y tiendas que estén al día al sol de hoy que contengan contenido para esos avatares? Gracias por comentar 🙂 

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On 4/18/2020 at 1:11 PM, polygonmonster said:

Question, how many people roughly still use classic avatars instead of bento heads and bodies? I'm very curious about those who don't decide to spent money on this meshes.

Aloha Polygonmonster. As others have said the mesh & bento items can be daunting, but I enjoy that challenge. I appreciate the artistic and technical nature of these items, and have fun customizing them. At the same time, yes - every update means I have to spend time changing dozens of saved outfits. Groan. I'll be trying out the method noted above!

A big draw for me to mesh & bento is appearance. Simple example: where I live people are barefoot a lot, and system avatar feet look like wax melting in the sun. Ugghh. Also, mesh and bento bodies and heads can be customized to create something very close to the appearance you want, realistic or imaginary. I haven't figured out yet how to add additional arms and legs, but I'm working on it :-)

I have mesh & bento body and head on both my main avatar and on my alt, but change to system body & head when in a crowded sim. Some busy events like concerts, clubs, and other places are so busy that everything lags, and some of the benefits of the mesh & bento are lost while the sim stutters. Having said that, I wear my mesh & bento even in busy clothing stores in order to try things on "on the spot."

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Just now, Waiomao said:

Aloha Polygonmonster. As others have said the mesh & bento items can be daunting, but I enjoy that challenge. I appreciate the artistic and technical nature of these items, and have fun customizing them. At the same time, yes - every update means I have to spend time changing dozens of saved outfits. Groan. I'll be trying out the method noted above!

A big draw for me to mesh & bento is appearance. Simple example: where I live people are barefoot a lot, and system avatar feet look like wax melting in the sun. Ugghh. Also, mesh and bento bodies and heads can be customized to create something very close to the appearance you want, realistic or imaginary. I haven't figured out yet how to add additional arms and legs, but I'm working on it 🙂

I have mesh & bento body and head on both my main avatar and on my alt, but change to system body & head when in a crowded sim. Some busy events like concerts, clubs, and other places are so busy that everything lags, and some of the benefits of the mesh & bento are lost while the sim stutters. Having said that, I wear my mesh & bento even in busy clothing stores in order to try things on "on the spot."

True, now that I think about it yea... people should have the liberty to choose what they like no matter the level of complexity to the customization. If people like something, and they want to look unique, they will find the way no matter how hard the process is. SL has showed me how personal an Avatar identity can really be. Thx for your comment 🙂 

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4 hours ago, polygonmonster said:

Interesante Me pregunto, sueles comprar ropa en eventos para tu avatar clásico? ¿Sabes si de casualidad existen eventos y tiendas que están al día al sol de hoy que contengan contenido para esos avatares? Gracias por comentar 🙂 

ya es dificil encontrarla inwolrd incluso en marketplace casi todo lo que aparece en primeras paginas son para los nuevos avatares pero si buscas guiandote de las marcas de ropa que ya tienes puedes encontrar cosas interesantes. Yo ahora compro ropa para avatares nuevos cuando me la pongo solo tengo que editar el cuerpo , ejemplo... menos hombros , menos musculatura etc..cosas asi y la verdad es que el resultado es bueno.

 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

It's too bad that making a complete mesh avatar with no detachable parts isn't in the works or at least thought as one whole mesh avatar may be less lag.  However, I have bought inexpensive whole mesh avatars for Halloween events and they are far lower in triangles and way less laggy.  So, it might not even by a 'may be'...if mesh avatars were all meshed together there would probably be less lag.  

To the OP:  My Dinkie avatar that I wear is 17K triangles and is a whole meshed avatar; my Maitreya mesh body is 150K triangles just for body/hands/feet naked; then adding head, hair, clothes - it goes way up in triangles.  When I am a Dinkie in SL, lag is gone until too many large triangle human mesh avatars show up.  I wanted to change to a Dinkie in SL.  I did not know my lag would be gone until I was living a SL as a Dinkie.  

The lag is an issue too with high triangle human avatars.  I've had far more fun as a Dinkie with no lag...but I am not looking for any kind of internet partner as I said in my last post...so it is a lot more fun in low lag avatars since I am just looking for friends and light-hearted discussion inworld.   

I hate the lag.  

Also, I stated in my other post it took me 3 years to buy Catya but I am still not thrilled with the lip.  However, I waited 3 years to see if more mesh head styles would become available and they didn't.  So, I'm going to give Catya by Catwa a try but it isn't what I really, really want.  I want a head that is more modifiable.  Mesh heads, you could consider, are partial modify.  

My computer is good enough to render stuff...in my real life building we only have wifi as an option.  I cannot get a more stable or robust internet connection.  Wifi is it - the only option.   So rendering high triangle human mesh avatars isn't a very good experience - it's very laggy.   But, after my lockdown experience with my landlord...a move may be something I want.   

The only problem with an all in one mesh avatar (and I've had a few of those btw -- altamura made several freebies that were all in one) is that if you don't like the head, then you're stuck.  Although the system head is hard to edit to make look unique, it lends itself to much more variation than every mesh head I've edited (and I've done dozens, both male and female).

A lot of people like to change their appearance, and think their bodies are fine, but the facial appearance leaves something to be desired.  Over time, mesh heads have acquired more features, but the bodies, not so much.

Anyway, I think it's likely that people are going to want to have bodies with detachable heads as long as people don't all want to look the same. and as long as mesh heads are not infinitely editable.  All vendors/creators have a look.  You can see a guy with one of those monster men mesh bodies and you know who made it.  I can often identify a Maitreya body without even checking to see if i'm right.  The same is even truer of heads.  So far anyway, seem to have a certain baked-in form.  Every maker has a look and within that look, variations that are NOT very changeable in the individual head.  It's why body vendors can sell between 1 and 3 styles of body, but most head makers make a bunch.

Sadly, I can usually tell the maker of the heads, even when they're supposed to be different races, b/c people have styles and they tend to fall into those ruts.  They make make big nose, small nose, but there's something familiar -- they're all 'related'.  The mouths are all pouty in the same "I want to suck on something" way that I would not be caught dead wearing (for one example).  Skin makers do the same thing.  I think it starts when they enable certain parts of the musculature, so the sliders always work the same way on that maker's heads...  so they have the same limits. 

You cannot build a cowboy boot on a running shoe last (the three dimensional form a shoe is built around).  It's the same thing with the heads.  You cannot build a man's head on female head form (for example). Heads aren't "elastic" enough from the base they're built on for 'one head fits all'.  When that happens, we won't need head manufacturers... We will just build our own with the sliders, and buy shapes from people who are better at making those.

Take me as just one example.  I'm not white, and many of the heads that are available in SL are aimed at Caucasian women and I don't like how they look on me even when they're extensively edited.  On the other hand, I'm pass for white light skinned in real life and i don't have African features at all either, so the 'African' look is not one i want either (at least not the variation that shows up in second life). I don't look either 'white' or 'black' (stereotype-wise, anyway).  Like nearly everyone else, I want a relatively unique look -- and an avatar reflects some version of 'me' that feels 'ethnic' without forcing me into any box - African, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Indian or European, or any number of 'indigenous' peoples  -- each of which are at least several different looks to begin with. You only have to look at a yearbook from anywhere - even one that is relatively racially homogeneous - to see that there's a lot of variation.

It's already difficult not to see clone faces going around in SL b/c many if not most people buy a head and they're largely done...  For lack of interest or ability or time or all of the above.   Now, think if we bought one of say the 10 or 15 different bodies that get most use in SL with just one head that is as inflexible as the bodies are... and we'd have 10 or 15 different looks... with slight variations.

I think Altamura is trying to do this more than most other body vendors... sell whole body packages that have it all (a variety of different heads/looks, mostly white)... but even they are allowing people to hide/detach the head that comes with the bodies that people pay so much for -- because even after buying a body with an integral head, people still want change.

So... sadly, I think we are stuck with some degree of neck blend woes for a while...

Edited by DeepBlueJoy
clarity
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Posted (edited)
On 4/23/2020 at 5:59 AM, Marianne Little said:

I have heard a lot about how the Genus eyes had this glitch, so I was positively surprised when I tried on the head and eyes. They look like this when I wear GENUS Project - Genus Eyes v1.4 with the eyes alpha. It is an eye setting in the GENUS Project - Basic Animation HUD v1.3 where you can try to play with the settings. It is the eye with arrows around that you can use to look up/down/to the sides. But I have not used it. I wear the eyes with the .euphoric ~Hope  Eyes  Applier ~[Genus] applier. (Free group gift in store)

Ilyri_001.jpg.87b8b0283908eeaa8c5c7e61b41ed4cc.jpg

On my other Genus head user, I am using the unrigged eyes I had, since I wanted to keep the look, and the eyes are not updated with appliers. I show a screen shot how it looks when I edit them. I use pose stand in the viewer (Firestorm) or you can use a ordinary posestand if you don't have Firestorm. I attach this clever free HUD, AnyPose Expression HUD v1.0. Its animations are useless for a mesh head, but it still works well for eye position. I pose the eyes to stare straight forward and begin to edit one eye. When it looks good, I copy the position settings to the other.

sad_004.jpg.facf3b0b4b96bc10ebbe151661dd5f39.jpg

Now comes the best: I use different eye positions to make sure no part of the eyes clip through the head when they move. In this case you can see the eye pop out slightly. It means I have to either move the eyes a tiny little bit closer to the nose (both eyes) or a tiny bit deeper in the head.

sad_005.jpg.2c68a10ac611dabd0096f8d3ef4143a6.jpg

I write it so detailed, because it can be people new to editing who read this thread.

I am used to editing mesh eyes, I did this all the time with mesh eyes and the classic avatar. So it is not a new thing.

 

 

DISREGARD THE POST BELOW. did not have all the info before jumping in and splashing egg everywhere!🙄

contains good advice that does not apply here!!

 

I don't know what the problem is with the particular head you're using, but I have worn several mesh heads with system eyes from day one and never bothered with anything else, b/c there's many great system eyes out there and they aren't a pain to use and they aren't 'ruth eyes'.  I have never had trouble with mesh heads and system eyes, and almost always have issues with mesh eyes and anything. It's  just not worth the work.  I have real life for that.

You can get tons of very cool cheap or free system eyes on MP - some even come with both mesh and system in the box so if you ever feel the need to do the mesh thing, that option is there.

Bottom Line: I recommend system eyes with whatever head you use - I find they un-complicate everything. 

Edited by DeepBlueJoy
CORRECTING INCORRECT INFO

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I have a GA.EG head, Jennifer, and GA.EG's mesh eyes. When I first got the eyes they were not quite right. The eye-HUD has positioning and rotation controls. I set them once for the Jennifer head. They've been good ever since.

Mine seem to work OK with the AnyPose HUD. But, I am using the Black Dragon Poser more and more to get my eyes pointed as I want them.

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5 hours ago, DeepBlueJoy said:

 You cannot build a man's head on female head form (for example). Heads aren't "elastic" enough from the base they're built on for 'one head fits all'.  

You can - within a certain type of male features.

200415_001.thumb.jpg.38f831fe3e19ecf9dc743b56ff288ce8.jpg

It's just very difficult to find the right female head to start with, and it's also difficult to find a male skin that even fits a female head at all. There's one or two Catwa heads that can do it, and Dream's Ciara free head. And there's a whole ton of heads I haven't even tried yet, so maybe there's a couple more.  You're right overall though; most heads are very limited in what they can do slider-wise. The Dream head is probably the most responsive and most variable head I've see so far.  The way I have it looking here is so different from its advertising pic that it's hard to believe it's even the same head at all.

 

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12 hours ago, DeepBlueJoy said:

I don't know what the problem is with the particular head you're using, but I have worn several mesh heads with system eyes from day one and never bothered with anything else, b/c there's many great system eyes out there and they aren't a pain to use and they aren't 'ruth eyes'.  I have never had trouble with mesh heads and system eyes, and almost always have issues with mesh eyes and anything. It's  just not worth the work.  I have real life for that.

You can get tons of very cool cheap or free system eyes on MP - some even come with both mesh and system in the box so if you ever feel the need to do the mesh thing, that option is there.

Bottom Line: I recommend system eyes with whatever head you use - I find they un-complicate everything. 

I was replying to HydrangeaRose. She said she had a problem with a specific head. You say you have many mesh heads, but this brand is made to be used with mesh eyes.  The mesh head she talked about looks like this without mesh eyes:

sad_007.jpg.4d2a37c88f9044bb2c7fbe7df3f06384.jpg

So I told her what I do with the same head. Using the included rigged eyes is painless. It is click and wear eyes + click and add alpha. Not harder that system eyes. And the included eyes comes with several different options. If that is not enough, appliers can be cheap or free too.

I think she did not wear the eyes and alpha layer, as I wrote with the first image. That image show the included mesh eyes.

My eyes in the second image is pre-mesh head eyes I wanted to keep, so I edited them in place, to show that as an alternative.

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

I was replying to HydrangeaRose. She said she had a problem with a specific head. You say you have many mesh heads, but this brand is made to be used with mesh eyes.  The mesh head she talked about looks like this without mesh eyes:

sad_007.jpg.4d2a37c88f9044bb2c7fbe7df3f06384.jpg

So I told her what I do with the same head. Using the included rigged eyes is painless. It is click and wear eyes + click and add alpha. Not harder that system eyes. And the included eyes comes with several different options. If that is not enough, appliers can be cheap or free too.

I think she did not wear the eyes and alpha layer, as I wrote with the first image. That image show the included mesh eyes.

My eyes in the second image is pre-mesh head eyes I wanted to keep, so I edited them in place, to show that as an alternative.

 

 

 

 

sorry. now i am the ignorant one. apologies!

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16 hours ago, Maitimo said:

You can - within a certain type of male features.

200415_001.thumb.jpg.38f831fe3e19ecf9dc743b56ff288ce8.jpg

It's just very difficult to find the right female head to start with, and it's also difficult to find a male skin that even fits a female head at all. There's one or two Catwa heads that can do it, and Dream's Ciara free head. And there's a whole ton of heads I haven't even tried yet, so maybe there's a couple more.  You're right overall though; most heads are very limited in what they can do slider-wise. The Dream head is probably the most responsive and most variable head I've see so far.  The way I have it looking here is so different from its advertising pic that it's hard to believe it's even the same head at all.

 

Actually, I have tried it... and mostly the result is not quite what I was hoping for... I was trying to create a look that is not quite as androgynous as yours, but which was less 'harsh' than a lot of the males I see in SL.  I often try to create faces that are based on real people, and the person in question was definitely masculine, but has less of a square jawed typical look...  So I'll amend it to 'it's hard to create a typical male look' from a female head...  But as you've proven, there can be exceptions. 

You look awesome, btw!! 

I actually would like to talk to you about the skin you're using... that is the other thing that makes it hard to get a less hangry/monstery or slacker/party boy look.  I find the sexual politics in SL avatars to be an interesting insight into sexual politics in general, but it can get annoying fast, when you're trying to create a neutral, pleasant look in either gender, particularly when you're trying to create a look based on reality, not 'rugged' 'handsomeness' male stereotype or some kind of of 'female ideal', that apparently involves having *****ty(?) rubbery thick-fish lips and a completely vacant of brains expression.  Some of these really expensive heads just look simian to me. I have no idea who finds that look attractive or sexy (haven't met many), but any man that does... is likely not on my list of ideal mate... even if i were looking to date in SL, which, I'm not.  Maybe it's supposed to look 'ready for action' but that's not a look I'm after either!

But I think I'm gonna try that free head you mention if i can find it still -- if it's flexible and responsive, it's worth looking into for either gender!  I like how approachable your expression is. 

Thanks!

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3 minutes ago, DeepBlueJoy said:

You look awesome, btw!! 

I actually would like to talk to you about the skin you're using... that is the other thing that makes it hard to get a less hangry/monstery or slacker/party boy look.  

Thankyou!

The skin I'm wearing here is Barrus from Plastik; it's rather old but still available in their mainstore, and has omega appliers as well as system layers. Plastik specialises in fantasy skins but they have this range of normal skins too.  Another male skin I sometimes wear with it is Elias from Elysium, but that one is no longer available except for a handful of stolen copies on the MP. 

The Dream head should still be free too, it's part of the "Stay at Home" deal. Word of warning though; it's VERY basic. No animations, no eyelashes, there isn't even anything inside the mouth so if you do use animations you'll have to find teeth/tongue etc from elsewhere. I "borrowed" from the Genus head, which has head and mouth as separate attachments. 

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Posted (edited)

I still use a classic system avatar as it works well for a slim female shape. I'm aware that mesh has smoother contours but I tried mesh demos and I couldn't re-create my shape with them.  Another reason I stayed 'system' is that I created a new skin a couple of years ago, which I also use on my OpenSim standalone and I didn't want all that effort to go to waste. With bakes-on-mesh I might take another look at a mesh body one day but I'm in no hurry.  I do use mesh clothing and hair though, although 'system' is still fine for tight fitting items like socks and leggings - after all, people do use appliers on mesh bodies.  And I have to say it's not difficult to find mesh avatars with totally unrealistic proportions or skin that looks like hard plastic.  It's all down to the owner and how they choose to customise.

It's not possible yet to have perfect avatars in SL or any other virtual environment.  All SL avatars, whether classic or mesh, are a compromise, especially when it comes to movement, with hands sometimes disappearing into body or hair sticking to back. 

What would be really good would be for LL to upgrade the system avatar in a way that is still compatible with existing textures.  

Edited by Conifer Dada
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On 4/19/2020 at 9:01 PM, So Whimsy said:

I see quite a few people around that use old system avi's. It's impossible to tell though how much of the userbase still uses them. I'd dare say the majority does for various reasons.

ok

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Conifer Dada said:

still use a classic system avatar as it works well for a slim female shape. I'm aware that mesh has smoother contours but I tried mesh demos and I couldn't re-create my shape with them.

I make slim shapes for mesh bodies but do not sell them.   I have one for free right now in my MP store - it's not the greatest shape although you could copy down the slider numbers of what you like and try some of them on your shape.  IOW, you copy down my slider numbers and then change your shape to those slider numbers that way it doesn't mess up your Classic head if you get a mesh body.  I'm working on one now that I feel is one of the best "slim" shapes I've made so far...I dunno if I will offer the one I'm making now for free though, but maybe.  I was a mesh body and Classic head for a long time.  I felt the body would be easier to work with and understand with all the appliers for example so I started to learn mesh avatars with a mesh body first.   

Shape classes would not be a bad idea if SL had them, imo, especially for mesh avatars because you cannot have two shapes - one for the head and one for the body which I think is difficult to grasp when a newbie into mesh avatars.  

My avatar badge here for the forum has a mesh body and a Classic head; it's slim as you can see.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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Honestly, I miss my last system avi, and the outfits I had. I cannot create anything close with mesh stuff. I don't know, maybe part of it is the association with life and times of when that avi was considered at least acceptable, or maybe attractive. In fact, I got so nostalgic I logged into my original account a few days ago and wore my old avi and all the outfits I had saved. I still love most of those looks. If all that was not trapped in my old account, I might even go about looking like that, especially since I don't go anywhere that how I look matters. Who knows, maybe I will get bored and develop a system avi in my new account.

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On 4/21/2020 at 12:10 AM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

SL, as I'm sure you've already figured out, means very different things to different people. And that's a great thing, but one of the drawbacks is that sometimes it creates particular communities of interest that don't really connect very well. So, for instance, there are lots of role players here, which is something I've never been into, and I don't really connect with many of them except here, on the forums.

And, more concerningly, there are people who get very judgemental about how others use the platform. So, there certainly are some older residents who are not merely indifferent to the allure of mesh, but actually contemptuous of it. And, of course, there are others who are snobbish about mesh; in fact, there are sims that will only allow those wearing mesh bodies and clothing into them.

A great many residents, particularly older ones, just aren't here for the clothing and avatar customization. They like building, or role play, or scripting, or exploring, or landscape photography, or . . . whatever. So, while those who are contemptuous of people who enjoy working on avatar customization and fashion are clearly being intolerant and should "shush," it's equally true that offers to help them "upgrade" to mesh are likely going to fall on deaf ears.

There is, as well, one other thing about older residents and their avatars that is actually really important, and that is that they -- we, because I get this -- have been using our avatars for so long that we have really come to identify with how they look. Many people -- and until a year and a half ago, this would have included me -- are reluctant to move to mesh heads because it's often so difficult to replicate the same look in mesh. That was certainly a concern of mine -- and I actually had friends in-world who were upset that I wasn't going to appear as I had for, essentially, 9 or 10 years. They, and I, were accustomed to my face.

So when someone contemptuously dismisses you or others who are fans of mesh, as "Barbie dolls," feel free to shrug them off: they're bigots and ignoramuses. But equally, it's important to understand that there are often very good reasons why some people resist the move to mesh. As Lindal says, above, there's room for us all here.

 

 

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I use both mesh and system and I have a variety of human and non-human avatars. Since I consider my avatar a chameleon and shapeshifter, I’m not hooked on any consistent ‘look’ so I don’t reject things based on that. Most people don’t turn off names over people’s heads so I’m not really super invested in being recognizable as one type or aesthetic. I like to change, wear a look for a while, then completely change again. 

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On 4/20/2020 at 11:07 PM, xBaeBeex said:

..i think im going to come off as the av snob here, the av mesh snob.. and an av mesh snob thats only been in SL for 1 year almost.

I really really dont like the system stuff. And im sorry for that.. but i just.. I dont get it, ive seen names and people who, when i check their profiles they've been on 7 or 8 years and still look like they've been in SL for 1 day as a noob. .. can call mesh users "barbies" but some of us will look at system user accounts and wonder why in 8 years it looks like you havent done anything to your account. .. with some shops and designers offering next to nothing free bobies and even genus with a free head, and 7DS with a BOM free skin.. so much stuff avaliable.. so "id rather spend my money else where" kinda doesnt cut it when i see so much desigbers are willing to give. And also, if your playing second life and took the time to learn it and still willing to log in after 8 years of playing, you would somewhere have even 10 or 15 dollars to put in to at least.. at the least..get a body? .. Im sorry.. i just.. yeah.. 

So at the expense of calling the rest of us "barbies" or "plastic" or other names ... please dont.. coz some of us would be willing to help anyone that wanted help to upgrade. .

 

I think you read what I said totally wrong.  What I said was  I find a lot of avatars that use the mesh heads look like plastic or they all look alike. In that context I was telling why I wouldn't get a mesh head.  So before you get offended please read what was written especially when you posted a whole paragraph on your opinion.

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On 4/19/2020 at 3:15 PM, So Whimsy said:

Mostly because of males who don't care what their avatar looks like. Then you have those who don't spend money on SL. Another group would be those who like the way their avatar looks and don't care for an upgrade. Lastly, the casual's who don't sign in often.

Oh! And those who think change is bad. I like calling them the grandma's of SL because just like grandma's in real life, they're scared/confused by new technology.

it should be offered as a free change. the price has been going up from what had been for now for years. we pay enough, too much! Let the rich spend millions on what is supposed to be a game!

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On 4/21/2020 at 6:10 AM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

A great many residents, particularly older ones, just aren't here for the clothing and avatar customization. They like building, or role play, or scripting, or exploring, or landscape photography, or . . . whatever. So, while those who are contemptuous of people who enjoy working on avatar customization and fashion are clearly being intolerant and should "shush," it's equally true that offers to help them "upgrade" to mesh are likely going to fall on deaf ears.

Not all the ears are deaf. Sometimes the things people say hurt.

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