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Games such as Bloodlines and Hunger, Angels & Demons and Progeny, have taken root in a part of Second Life that can easily draw you into only ever experiencing them for your Second Life. These games can become a way of life with bearing their HUDs, thus then being in their game with their features to participate without the harm of the non-participants (generally speaking, drama would be an exception).

It is a major part of why I have started this poll where you can express what you like and don't like about any of these (and other) games that you have played.

You can find the Google Forms poll right below:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfSRhzBZJWGaqjyLrhbkJ8rBavR4DB0j67iiaRqY_KfdtZKBg/viewform?usp=sf_link

I appreciate any of your input in advance.

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I hope your poll goes well.

My feedback isn't really suitable for the poll structure, as it's designed around game-specific thoughts.

In short, I don't really care about gridwide RPGs. Each to their own, and all that. I only have a particularly strong opinion of them when the behaviours of the players interfere with my enjoyment of SL. Bloodlines is the classic example of this; the game by design encourages the harassment of non-players by rewarding players for each "bite"; said bite then ties the non-player to the game against their wishes, and promotes them as a target for other active players. This is not good.

Codes of conduct for the playerbase is not enough; if the raw mechanics of the game encourage interaction and/or harassment with non-players, it will inevitably cause a problem. And I wouldn't shed a tear if the playerbase was banned from huge swathes of the world, a la Bloodlines.

So please keep that in mind. Leave non-players out of the mechanics of the gridwide game entirely, and we can all co-exist in peace.

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On 4/14/2020 at 4:35 AM, AyelaNewLife said:

I hope your poll goes well.

My feedback isn't really suitable for the poll structure, as it's designed around game-specific thoughts.

In short, I don't really care about gridwide RPGs. Each to their own, and all that. I only have a particularly strong opinion of them when the behaviours of the players interfere with my enjoyment of SL. Bloodlines is the classic example of this; the game by design encourages the harassment of non-players by rewarding players for each "bite"; said bite then ties the non-player to the game against their wishes, and promotes them as a target for other active players. This is not good.

Codes of conduct for the playerbase is not enough; if the raw mechanics of the game encourage interaction and/or harassment with non-players, it will inevitably cause a problem. And I wouldn't shed a tear if the playerbase was banned from huge swathes of the world, a la Bloodlines.

So please keep that in mind. Leave non-players out of the mechanics of the gridwide game entirely, and we can all co-exist in peace.

Thank you!

This issue is among the major concerns I have with more than just Bloodlines. In how a game can instigate harassment of the non-players can vary.
It would be twofold in minimizing this:
1. Make any in-game interaction not physically affect a non-player.
2. Data generated (as it is statistics generated upon first interaction with a player that leads to any further interaction) and altered (such as consuming life force) doesn't result in either A. Permanent death upon death nor B. Death being reversed by a player's investment. Ideally, a non-player can become a player without any additional investment - even with an opportunity to provide an alternative in gameplay experience.

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On 4/14/2020 at 10:35 AM, AyelaNewLife said:

Bloodlines is the classic example of this; the game by design encourages the harassment of non-players by rewarding players for each "bite"; said bite then ties the non-player to the game against their wishes, and promotes them as a target for other active players. This is not good.

 

It is true that accepting a bite means that your name appears in the Bloodlines database, but that is a result of an active agreement to being bitten.  Names get into databases such as a store's list of customers all the time; I doubt many people consider that when purchasing an item.  It is also true that some players make a nuisance of themselves when going after as many non-players as possible in order to accrue game points. That has been tightened up recently which should result in fewer nuisances, but it will still happen, unfortunately.

Promotion as a target, however, is debatable.  The database is huge, and you don't get a handy list of the newly-bitten.   In any case, whether you could somehow use that data to find them inworld, or if you see via your HUD that someone has been bitten but not yet bought a HUD in order to become an active player, you can't claim their soul (which is the major aim) without spending money, or getting them to spend it.  For game purposes, cultivating your own fresh victim is preferable as you get points for the first bite and for the soul.

3 hours ago, Census700 said:

Thank you!

This issue is among the major concerns I have with more than just Bloodlines. In how a game can instigate harassment of the non-players can vary.
It would be twofold in minimizing this:
1. Make any in-game interaction not physically affect a non-player.
2. Data generated (as it is statistics generated upon first interaction with a player that leads to any further interaction) and altered (such as consuming life force) doesn't result in either A. Permanent death upon death nor B. Death being reversed by a player's investment. Ideally, a non-player can become a player without any additional investment - even with an opportunity to provide an alternative in gameplay experience.

On your first point, I'm not sure what you mean by 'physically affect' but if you mean interaction then I'll say that I actually find it preferable to be asked whether I wish to join in rather than have someone stalk me in order to get close enough to register my UUID.  I know this happens but it's creepy.  Your second point puzzles me.  As I don't play other games I only know that Bloodlines gives people a warning if they are about to give an amount of their vital substance which will turn them into a revenant/wraith or destroy them.  You can't do either to a player without their consent.  On the matter of investment, well, the game is profit-making so I'm not sure what would be the benefit to its makers of having non-paying players.

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8 hours ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

It is true that accepting a bite means that your name appears in the Bloodlines database, but that is a result of an active agreement to being bitten.  Names get into databases such as a store's list of customers all the time; I doubt many people consider that when purchasing an item.  It is also true that some players make a nuisance of themselves when going after as many non-players as possible in order to accrue game points. That has been tightened up recently which should result in fewer nuisances, but it will still happen, unfortunately.

Promotion as a target, however, is debatable.  The database is huge, and you don't get a handy list of the newly-bitten.   In any case, whether you could somehow use that data to find them inworld, or if you see via your HUD that someone has been bitten but not yet bought a HUD in order to become an active player, you can't claim their soul (which is the major aim) without spending money, or getting them to spend it.  For game purposes, cultivating your own fresh victim is preferable as you get points for the first bite and for the soul.

On your first point, I'm not sure what you mean by 'physically affect' but if you mean interaction then I'll say that I actually find it preferable to be asked whether I wish to join in rather than have someone stalk me in order to get close enough to register my UUID.  I know this happens but it's creepy.  Your second point puzzles me.  As I don't play other games I only know that Bloodlines gives people a warning if they are about to give an amount of their vital substance which will turn them into a revenant/wraith or destroy them.  You can't do either to a player without their consent.  On the matter of investment, well, the game is profit-making so I'm not sure what would be the benefit to its makers of having non-paying players.

Your approach in expressing Bloodline's bite permission mechanic makes it more agreeable. Competition arose in some free-to-play systems that oppose this for equally sounds reasons. To me, it's "to each their own".

On point one in regards to "physical affect", I refer to bite animations, actively engaging the non-player in the player's in game activity (in Bloodlines, this is biting itself). With free-to-play games, such as Angels & Demons and Afterlife, no physical engagement transpires for the non-player. Any data generated on the avatar is in the fashion of procedural generation (such as a template applied to a previously-unscanned or un-blessed/cursed avatar) which doesn't exist anywhere but on the game system's database and doesn't cause any actual harm to the player.

On point two, this is more extending a concept that goes with free-to-play models. Encouraging spending for system and company revenue is good, however it's a personally ideal thought that any non-player "killed" within a game system can still join said system without them or an active player investing for a "revival" as it forces a financial position caused likely by another player. This is more so a remark on current free-to-play game systems that require potions to purchase for "dead" non-players.

Where stalking becomes a problem, game systems reinforce and support Community Standards and TOS and would encourage appropriate punishment for toxic behavior, just as player-to-player issues lead to in-game punishments from land bans to game bans.

I believe it's also justifiable for club, store, and land owners to choose to generalize a ban of a system's players if that system doesn't offer any means to curb attacks (even if that is through product purchases). This offers a well-minded community to collective practice, and teach their new players, how to behave so as to not incur these issues. It also shows that a community is not in a collectively positive state when these privately owned places ban immediate poor behavior from a system and its community, or generalize the banning for detecting that user being a player.

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I agree with the matter of banning as there are discourteous players in any game.  Ideally a player should spend some time engaging someone in normal conversation before offering a game introduction, but manners are increasingly a thing of the past.  I should add that there is an option in the Bloodlines HUD to do without animations with a bite, but that requires a moment's thought.  Just as an aside, the angel exaltation is rather lovely.

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with a name like mine ...well yeah... erm... lets just say I was stupid enough to let some bloodlines idiot bite me once  back in early 2007 when I started.... it was a click, accept, "you´ve been bitten" - WHAT in the actual f! NEVER have I touched it again, wore the necklace, dunno - I´m not in any sort of database again...
 

Then a few years later someone in a group - absolutely cool guy, nice to hang out with - BUT!!!!! - hunger fan... pestered me for HOURS to at least "give it a try", calling me names like spoilsport and funhater.... (again..what the...) and it was NOT fun at all... it was annoying, badly animated, no rp no nothing... rolleyes, waste of a good minute... he then tried again to pester me again whenever we were both in groupchat, no matter how many times I asked him to stop, no matter how long we hadn´t talked

Fast forward to earlier this week... a guy named Lestat  ... well of course he IMed me... all fun and stuffs... and then he apologized himself but he "couldn´t scan me" - I sighed and rolled m eyes, started to rant to my poor fiance who was dancing next to me during all this (our screens almost touch, too, he had way more fun reading me lecturing the poor youngling in his 7 days avatar - an alt - how low and useless Bloodlines is and how he could be a better Vampire, spech with a name like that). He said he´d think about it - I doubt it but ah well... I told him to drop me a line if he wanted the garlic XD

And I was in a particular good mood that day cos usually I call them out in local so the others are warned, most places ban people like that for a VERY good reason and I might or might not have filed several ARs for harassment over a simple request to be bitten... along with a slap with the blockhammer...

There´s all kinds of AOs, collar systems, furniture, gestures, poses, ROLEPLAY - those "games" are just... a waste of...everything really and if you think they add anything at all you need to find better RP-partners - BADLY ! NAOW!

(btw the poll answers with the massive swearing and pointing above and stuff - that was me)

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I think such games are just a waste of time really. the moment I learned about the game I got a necklace and wore so I could never be added to bloodlines. unfortunately the other games dont have such a device that you can be used to keep yourself out of the game database. which they should. should be a requirement of LL that any sort of gridwide game have such a feature for those that do no want to play or be part of it in any way shape or form.

i should not have to say no, not even once if I dont want to be part of the game. I should be able to opt out completely and never be bothered by it not even once or ever again. but currently only bloodlines allows this with the necklace. which makes the other two games a definite do not like or want around me ever.

I think any gridwide game that allows someone to harass another person for any reason at all should be banned completely from second life. then there would be no drama about it anymore.

I know if I was a sim owner I would ban them all from my sim and would ban anyone even suspected of trying to play it on my sim the moment I found out. regardless of who they were playing it with or why or how or what ever.

spampire/spamwolf begone. same for the angel or demon fighting over my soul; my soul..my life force... is not up for grabs or negotiation and never will be.

Edited by Drakonadrgora Darkfold
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